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News & ArtsThursday, February 21, 2013
Death / Comedy / Chow / History / International Why Apologize for a Little Massacre After All This Time?
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 2:00 PM
...and why give back a certain gigantic diamond? British Prime Minister David Cameron is over in India, and he's sounding like an asshat:
David Cameron has defended his decision to stop short of delivering a formal British apology for the Amritsar massacre in 1919, in which at least 379 innocent Indians were killed. As relatives of the victims expressed disappointment, the prime minister said it would be wrong to "reach back into history" and apologise for the wrongs of British colonialism...
...Cameron said Britain could still be proud of its former empire – while acknowledging the mistakes – as he rejected demands to return the Koh-i-Noor diamond to India from the British crown jewels.
Asked whether Britain should return the diamond, he said: "I don't think that is the right approach. It is the same question with the Elgin marbles," he said. "It is for the British Museum and other cultural centres to do exactly what they do do, which is link up with museums all over the world to make sure that the things we have, and are looked after so well, are properly shared with people around the world. No, I certainly don't believe in returnism."
And here are Hari Kondabolu's extremely funny and biting thoughts on that big-ass diamond:
1
Returnism! Despicable returnists. Jealous of the plunderists and stealists who built the Empire.
I suppose if I were a plunderist being chased by an angry mob, I'd be happier if they were returnists rather than jailists.
I suppose if I were a plunderist being chased by an angry mob, I'd be happier if they were returnists rather than jailists.
3
There's a historical injustice? Toss it on the heap.
This is not to say that people shouldn't take this seriously. But there's only so much anger at injustice we can take on before we start to close down. Besides, fucking diamonds are incredibly common. If India wants justice, why not put its efforts into protecting its women, treating them like human beings instead of treating them worse than cattle? The whole issue of a jewel, even the loss of life in 1919, pales compared to the rape, torture, and murder of Indian women perpetrated, not by some imperialist power from a century ago, but by Indian men right now.
It's always easier to blame someone else than it is to look at your own shit.
This is not to say that people shouldn't take this seriously. But there's only so much anger at injustice we can take on before we start to close down. Besides, fucking diamonds are incredibly common. If India wants justice, why not put its efforts into protecting its women, treating them like human beings instead of treating them worse than cattle? The whole issue of a jewel, even the loss of life in 1919, pales compared to the rape, torture, and murder of Indian women perpetrated, not by some imperialist power from a century ago, but by Indian men right now.
It's always easier to blame someone else than it is to look at your own shit.
5
@3 ... o_O ... 5-to-1 odds that @3 is an older than middle-aged white man.
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But guuuys the Koh-i-Noor is actually in the Queen's crown!. You can't... (gasp!) ...disassemble the Queen's very crown, just to give back a silly diamond that became British nearly two centuries ago. That just wouldn't be cricket!
Anyway, it isn't really the same diamond any more since Albert had it cut down to make it more brilliant and lust-worthy. So what would be the point of returning a different diamond? None.
--
But guuuys the Koh-i-Noor is actually in the Queen's crown!. You can't... (gasp!) ...disassemble the Queen's very crown, just to give back a silly diamond that became British nearly two centuries ago. That just wouldn't be cricket!
Anyway, it isn't really the same diamond any more since Albert had it cut down to make it more brilliant and lust-worthy. So what would be the point of returning a different diamond? None.
6
rome took egypt's obelisks 2000 years ago, and they still have them.
is there going to be a historical cutoff for valid returnism or does every spoil of conquest go back?
saxons out of angleland!
is there going to be a historical cutoff for valid returnism or does every spoil of conquest go back?
saxons out of angleland!
8
I assume they are also demanding the return of the larger Darya-ye Noor diamond from Iran? Along with an apology for the massacre Iran carried out in 1739 when Nader Shah invaded Northern India and occupied Delhi? Or do they just resent brutalization by dead white people?
Hell, as the largest English speaking nation on the planet (hence all those fucking call centers) they should be sending England more diamonds in gratitude for the gift of a civilized language.
Hell, as the largest English speaking nation on the planet (hence all those fucking call centers) they should be sending England more diamonds in gratitude for the gift of a civilized language.
10
@6 Napoleon also stole some sweet obelisks. And more recently than the Romans.
Look. It's pretty fucking imposible to be demanding the descendants of pillagers from nearly a hundred years ago start groveling in apology and hand back everything that was stolen and expect any sort of justice.
Look. The list of aggrieved parities would be endless and the shit it would stir up would cause more violence not heal any wounds. This ancient grudge holding shit has been the root of sectarian and ethnic problems from Ireland and Cypress to Appalachia. At some point the past has to stay dead.
Basically the rule should be if the grandchildren of the people your ancestors fucked over are dead or nearly dead, as much as it may suck -move on.
Otherwise I could ask all you pale faces to get the fuck off my land.
Look. It's pretty fucking imposible to be demanding the descendants of pillagers from nearly a hundred years ago start groveling in apology and hand back everything that was stolen and expect any sort of justice.
Look. The list of aggrieved parities would be endless and the shit it would stir up would cause more violence not heal any wounds. This ancient grudge holding shit has been the root of sectarian and ethnic problems from Ireland and Cypress to Appalachia. At some point the past has to stay dead.
Basically the rule should be if the grandchildren of the people your ancestors fucked over are dead or nearly dead, as much as it may suck -move on.
Otherwise I could ask all you pale faces to get the fuck off my land.
11
Actually, I suspect the symbolic point of the Koh-I-Noor Diamond is that it --fairly clearly-- represents India itself as possession of the British Empire. Another jewel in the crown of the monarch. There's a certain symbolism of returning it --or not-- since India definitively won it's independence from the Ingraj some time ago.
I think your rule tkc @10 is a pretty decent guide. Not that I think history should be forgotten. Forgive, sure, but don't forget.
I think your rule tkc @10 is a pretty decent guide. Not that I think history should be forgotten. Forgive, sure, but don't forget.
12
So yea, that rule works. For example, if China can keep dominating Tibet and their cultural artifacts, treasures and culture for the next 70 years or so, and three generations of Tibetans passed, then we will all just erase Tibet from the history book and China gets to keep everything.
The more ruthless you are, the more you get to keep, and the less the victim can bitch. Makes sense to me!
The more ruthless you are, the more you get to keep, and the less the victim can bitch. Makes sense to me!
13
If you're proud of the good parts, then you can apologize for the bad part. Cameron isn't even playing politics, he's just being a past-its-prime colonial douche.
14
Yeah, as cheap as talk is, Cameron must be really fucking stingy if he can't muster an "I'm sorry my government massacred a bunch of your people". Motherfucker can't even manage to fake an apology?
15
Well, it's not like there is a giant memorial for the massacred natives of America at the National Mall, right?
Huge contrast to Germany. You can't turn a corner here without bumping into a memorial for the victims of National Socialism.
Huge contrast to Germany. You can't turn a corner here without bumping into a memorial for the victims of National Socialism.
17
There would be so much to return if European colonial countries decided to do so given all the looting of resources that happened.
18
@12 or. You can continually lament the injustices of history and yet still keep everything your ancestors stole including the land under your ass right now.
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