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News & ArtsWednesday, February 20, 2013
Transportation Dems' Budget Would Tax Bicycles to Pay for Freeways
Posted by Dominic Holden on Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:29 PM
House Democrats rolled out a nearly $10 billion transportation package Wednesday that would boost taxes on gasoline, increase car tabs and even charge a bicycle fee to raise money. The proposal would increase the state gas tax by 10 cents over five years, eventually reaching a total of 47.5 cents per gallon. Currently, Washington state has the nation’s ninth-highest gas tax.
In addition, it would create a car tab equal to 0.7 percent of a vehicle’s value. A state tax on hazardous chemicals would increase by 0.3 percent, to 1 percent.
There’s even a $25 sales fee on bicycles worth $500 or more that raises a total $1 million over 10 years, included for largely symbolic reasons.
The lion's share of these taxes would pay for improvements to Highways 167 and 509, I-405, I-5 down in Vancouver, and I-90 on Snoqualmie Pass. Those aren't really highways that bicycles use. I'm not opposed to paying a road usage fee for a bicycle—I think it's fine for bike riders to chip in for their impact on the road, which is minimal compared to vehicles—but it seems weird to pay a bicycle excise tax to fund freeways that cyclists don't use. Granted, there may be a smattering of bike facilities associated with new highways, even though this budget doesn't provide a cent for the new 520 bridge, which will have bike accommodations. According to the report above, the bill set aside about one-tenth of its funds for maintenance of state highways and local roads. But realistically, it's not clear that any of that money would go towards the local roads that cyclists ride on (local roads are built and maintained overwhelmingly by local governments, not the state). I have a call in to Representative Judy Clibborn, who chairs the House transportation committee, and Seattle transportation officials to ask if this bill would provide better infrastructure for cyclists.
1
Cool. I've been wanting a new bike. I'd pay twenty-five bucks gladly if it would shut up Mr. G and Kinison for five fucking minutes!
2
Dominic, these are community projects. I support this in the same way I support I-90 tolls to help fund the 520 bridge.
3
The bigger problem with this proposal is that it doesn't give enough money to transit to stop huge cuts next year, and certainly doesn't give transit enough money to expand beyond what we have today. But yes, the bike tax is also a monumentally stupid slap at people.
4
Wait a minute; forget the stupid bike crap.
Isn't this the first direct shot across the bow of the U.S.S. Tim Eyman and his 2/3 supermajority law for tax and revenue increases, before the appellate court case is settled?
Isn't this the first direct shot across the bow of the U.S.S. Tim Eyman and his 2/3 supermajority law for tax and revenue increases, before the appellate court case is settled?
6
Huh, only on mid and high end bikes... still not cool. The idea of taxing bicyclists is backward thinking. Anything at all that discourages people from riding a bike would increase the budgetary burden somewhere else. The public health aspect alone is enough, in my rough calculation, to see bikes as an expenditure rather than a revenue source. Raise revenue by taxing the rich, or perhaps Boeing could kick some b&o to Olympia...
7
Also, bike shops are almost exclusively cool, small-time businesses that don't need pressure on their sales like this.
8
I wonder when we'll stop giving away free parking at the park n rides? Why are we not charging for parking there?
9
@8 we pay for it with our property tax. The park and ride program keeps single-occupant vehicles off the highway and alleviates parking in the city. It never would have been created if the lot was going to charge a fee. Parking fees wouldn't bring it squat anyways due to the administrative costs.
10
Taxes like this will price me out of any bike, except maybe one with only one gear, and no a freewheel hub. I won't even be able to to afford brakes. Or a helmet. Where is this going to leave me?
12
"but it seems weird to pay a bicycle excise tax to fund freeways that cyclists don't use."
How many taxes to drivers pay for cyclist infrastructure that they don't use?
How many taxes to drivers pay for cyclist infrastructure that they don't use?
14
$1 million in a $10 billion piece of legislation? That won't even cover the consultant fees involved in the construction projects.
This is just a chit thrown in for the sake of negotiation.
This is just a chit thrown in for the sake of negotiation.
15
The $25 tax is really ridiculous, but it's a small price to pay to shut up those assholes who love to complain that about cyclists don't pay their share (even though it's a completely false argument).
16
This sounds a lot like the whining we hear from east of the mountains about paying for projects in Seattle that the rednecks don't use. Just because you don't use it, doesn't mean you don't benefit from it.
That said, it is a stupid addition to a transportation package that doesn't do much for transportation outside of gas guzzlers.
That said, it is a stupid addition to a transportation package that doesn't do much for transportation outside of gas guzzlers.
17
First, remove the tax exemption for the Billionaires like Gates and Allen foundations bike purchases, since working poor use bikes and transit more.
Second, make it $1000 not $500 and apply it to Internet sales like Amazon from out of state.
Then, and only then, will we talk.
Second, make it $1000 not $500 and apply it to Internet sales like Amazon from out of state.
Then, and only then, will we talk.
18
I disagree that bicycles have any impact on the roads. Especially in comparison to large trucks and asshats who run their studded snow tires all year. If there weren't any cars and no weather effects you could probably cycle over our roads for hundreds of years without seeing any effect.
I disagree that bicycles have any impact on the roads. Especially in comparison to large trucks and asshats who run their studded snow tires all year. If there weren't any cars and no weather effects you could probably cycle over our roads for hundreds of years without seeing any effect.
19
Property tax state by state on owner occupied housing:
http://taxfoundation.org/article/map-pro…
Washinton, a lowly 25th...
http://taxfoundation.org/article/map-pro…
Washinton, a lowly 25th...
21
What @2,12, and 16 said.
Um, don't you guys realize that complaining about how you don't want YOUR tax money to fund stuff you don't use is the same thing you deride your opponents for when they say the same thing about paying for shit you use and they don't?
We all put money in a pot and trust our elected leaders to spend it wisely. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. That's why they have to re-apply for their jobs on a regular basis.
Um, don't you guys realize that complaining about how you don't want YOUR tax money to fund stuff you don't use is the same thing you deride your opponents for when they say the same thing about paying for shit you use and they don't?
We all put money in a pot and trust our elected leaders to spend it wisely. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. That's why they have to re-apply for their jobs on a regular basis.
22
Oh, here the real fuckers start coming out. Start directly taxing things they use and "OMG! ONOZ!" Fuck you you Tim Eyman motherfuckers.
The problem is, $500 is a relatively low amount for an adult bicycle nowadays. On the other other hand, at least it leaves some bicycles available to not be taxed, so its not completely regressive.
Still, every single fucking tax in this motherfucking transportation bill is fucking regressive as all fucking hell.
Taxes on Gas? Regressive. Car tabs? Regressive. Bicycle fee? Regressive.
Yeah, democrats. I'm glad I hopped on Eyman's ship. Hopefully nobody can get this passed so you have to rethink things in a progressive manner. Because, we all know, democrats are not even thinking of presenting things that will impact the rich more than it will impact the poor.
Want to challenge me? Prove it motherfuckers.
The problem is, $500 is a relatively low amount for an adult bicycle nowadays. On the other other hand, at least it leaves some bicycles available to not be taxed, so its not completely regressive.
Still, every single fucking tax in this motherfucking transportation bill is fucking regressive as all fucking hell.
Taxes on Gas? Regressive. Car tabs? Regressive. Bicycle fee? Regressive.
Yeah, democrats. I'm glad I hopped on Eyman's ship. Hopefully nobody can get this passed so you have to rethink things in a progressive manner. Because, we all know, democrats are not even thinking of presenting things that will impact the rich more than it will impact the poor.
Want to challenge me? Prove it motherfuckers.
24
Clibborn's about as anti bike as anyone in the legislature. I say we keep the bike fee in and use it as a bargaining chip for goodies, like a bike path across the I-5 Ship Canal Bridge, a protected bike path on Rainier (a state highway under MAP 21), and a bike path up 520 through portage bay to Roanoke. It's all a transaction, people.
This is an opening.
This is an opening.
25
This is rich. Dominic has consistently ridiculed drivers who complain that their taxes go toward bike lanes as selfish. But now it's "Hey, my bicycle fees should only go toward streets I bike on!"
Do you realize how silly you sound?
Do you realize how silly you sound?
27
I'd be more likely to support this if it went directly toward paying for bike-friendly infrastructure, but $1M over 10 years is pocket change for any significant highway project. This strikes me as nothing more than a bargaining chip to be thrown out to make the budget more palatable.
28
Playing devil's advocate here, but wasn't the Stranger lionizing the reasonableness being able to toll I90 to pay for unrelated transportation projects? I don't see how taxing bicycles to pay for highways is all that much different from taxing 90 to pay for things which I will never utilize.
29
So did House Dems propose this with the expectation that the bill will never become law? Because that is a huge, sudden tax increase in a state where tax increases are almost always voted down by referendum.
In addition, it would create a car tab equal to 0.7 percent of a vehicle’s value.
So did House Dems propose this with the expectation that the bill will never become law? Because that is a huge, sudden tax increase in a state where tax increases are almost always voted down by referendum.
30
Looking at the Gregg's website, there are a buttload of bikes in the $400 dollar range, so this should not be too punitive. I haven't bought a new bike in a long time, but back in the day, $400 was the dividing line between "alleged bikes" that were likely to break quickly, and stuff that was actually a bit heavy but generally usable. Thanks to China, that probably hasn't changed much. If you need a functional but not fancy new bike, you can avoid this tax.
Saw a couple of models at REI.com that were priced at $529 or $539. I'll bet those suddenly get repriced to $499 if this passes.
For smaller bike shops, this will be more of a problem since any loss of their margin will hurt.
Saw a couple of models at REI.com that were priced at $529 or $539. I'll bet those suddenly get repriced to $499 if this passes.
For smaller bike shops, this will be more of a problem since any loss of their margin will hurt.
31
@6,
Mid- to high-end? I think you're going to have a hard time finding any new bike selling for less than $500. I also find it ridiculous that someone buying a cheap commuter bike new is paying the exact same tax as a spandex jockey dropping 5 grand.
Mid- to high-end? I think you're going to have a hard time finding any new bike selling for less than $500. I also find it ridiculous that someone buying a cheap commuter bike new is paying the exact same tax as a spandex jockey dropping 5 grand.
32
I wonder what the definition of a "bike" is versus "parts" or a "bike kit". Supposing I start selling bikes without a front wheel included, and sell that as a separate add on. Do I still have to pay the tax?
33
@31 Specialized Sirrus, Specialized Crossroads Sport, Trek 7.2, Trek Pure...
http://www.greggscycles.com/product-list…
The Crossroads even has mounts for a front rack and a suspension seatpost. The wheels sound heavy as shit, but no one is racing on it. Slap a pair of fenders on it, and it should get you to work for a couple of seasons before one of the cheap derailleurs breaks.
http://www.greggscycles.com/product-list…
The Crossroads even has mounts for a front rack and a suspension seatpost. The wheels sound heavy as shit, but no one is racing on it. Slap a pair of fenders on it, and it should get you to work for a couple of seasons before one of the cheap derailleurs breaks.
35
"Taxes on Gas? Regressive. Car tabs? Regressive. Bicycle fee? Regressive."
You say regressive. I say "equity"!
You say regressive. I say "equity"!
36
@34 Are you kidding? I've paid that much for a pair of wheels. And those were not expensive wheels!
How often have you actually been mountain biking on it? Defined as: if you're not crashing, you're not mountain biking.
How often have you actually been mountain biking on it? Defined as: if you're not crashing, you're not mountain biking.
37
So, what if we buy the bike in parts?
Frame first.
Next day tires.
Then the seat (those are expensive, if you're a guy and want to ride well).
Then the light and blinkers and helmet and repair gear.
Gee, no tax!
Frame first.
Next day tires.
Then the seat (those are expensive, if you're a guy and want to ride well).
Then the light and blinkers and helmet and repair gear.
Gee, no tax!
39
We all know that some of our taxes go toward funding projects or institutions with which we do not agree. It's unfortunate, but the world is not fair. This is not news, and if you can drop $500+ on a bicycle, you can afford to chip in $25 to help pay for the roads that bicyclists so incessantly and stridently demand be shared.
40
@22
Normally your constant trolling is fucking stupid but on this one you have a good point. These taxes are regressive as hell and hopefully don't pass.
As for a bicycle tax that's the dumbest tax Iv'e ever heard of. The macro benefits far outweigh any investment put into it and cities should be trying like hell to increase ridership as much as possible.
It reminds me of how much money the area wastes while buses hold up traffic during rush hour waiting for some asshole to cough up some change. Busses should be free during rush hour if not for the traffic savings alone and we should be paying cyclists for not driving.
Here's an idea: lets put a special tax on top of sales tax on condoms? Health food? Child care?
Tax breaks on cigarettes, guns, and fast food?
Democrats are so fucking useless the only thing you can hope for is that nothing they try works. And yes, they are still better than the far more capable Republicans. Who would very capably fuck everyone over on purpose.
I don't care about paying $25 buck the next time I buy a bike. Whatever. But the idea is so stupid and misguided it pisses me off.
Normally your constant trolling is fucking stupid but on this one you have a good point. These taxes are regressive as hell and hopefully don't pass.
As for a bicycle tax that's the dumbest tax Iv'e ever heard of. The macro benefits far outweigh any investment put into it and cities should be trying like hell to increase ridership as much as possible.
It reminds me of how much money the area wastes while buses hold up traffic during rush hour waiting for some asshole to cough up some change. Busses should be free during rush hour if not for the traffic savings alone and we should be paying cyclists for not driving.
Here's an idea: lets put a special tax on top of sales tax on condoms? Health food? Child care?
Tax breaks on cigarettes, guns, and fast food?
Democrats are so fucking useless the only thing you can hope for is that nothing they try works. And yes, they are still better than the far more capable Republicans. Who would very capably fuck everyone over on purpose.
I don't care about paying $25 buck the next time I buy a bike. Whatever. But the idea is so stupid and misguided it pisses me off.
41
@40 Yay for having your second comment ever! And the first with content!
Retarded content, though. Associating any taxation on products as Sin Taxes? Fuck you. No, really, fuck you. Do you consider car tabs to be sin taxes? How about gas taxes? You probably see them as necessary because cars use the roads. You know who else uses roads? Bikes. Sure they don't wear and tear the roads like trucks and cars, but they use them just the same. And, its not an annual fee. Its a one-time tax.
So, fuck you. You're just latching on to the regressive taxation meme in order to not pay more taxes. You're an asshole.
Retarded content, though. Associating any taxation on products as Sin Taxes? Fuck you. No, really, fuck you. Do you consider car tabs to be sin taxes? How about gas taxes? You probably see them as necessary because cars use the roads. You know who else uses roads? Bikes. Sure they don't wear and tear the roads like trucks and cars, but they use them just the same. And, its not an annual fee. Its a one-time tax.
So, fuck you. You're just latching on to the regressive taxation meme in order to not pay more taxes. You're an asshole.
42
The car tab is 0.7% of the vehicle's value. For $25 to be 0.7% of a bike's value, the bike would have to be $3,571.43.
Relative to value, this change represents a greater cost for bikes between $500 and $3,571.43 than it does for cars.
Relative to value, this change represents a greater cost for bikes between $500 and $3,571.43 than it does for cars.
43
@42 Relative to value, this change represents a greater cost INCREASE for bikes between $500 and $3,571.43 than it does for cars.
FTFY.
These are merely increases to car tabs, not the full cost of the car tabs themselves.
FTFY.
These are merely increases to car tabs, not the full cost of the car tabs themselves.
44
Wow. I'm no fan of this tax, but the claim here---that $1 million in bike taxes are somehow directly paying for the 1/3 or so of the package that would go to highways---is ridiculous.
45
@18, your intuition is correct. I discussed this once with a civil engineer who does research on airport runways.
49
This really struck a chord with me Dom, "weird to pay a bicycle excise tax to fund freeways that cyclists don't use."
Do you really think so? I think I've seen you explain quite clearly why it is entirely normal to pay taxes for things you don't necessarily use. Like how people who smoke cigarettes pay taxes on their products that go to funding public schools they don't go to. Or any tax really... Was it Goldy I'm thinking of?
Do you really think so? I think I've seen you explain quite clearly why it is entirely normal to pay taxes for things you don't necessarily use. Like how people who smoke cigarettes pay taxes on their products that go to funding public schools they don't go to. Or any tax really... Was it Goldy I'm thinking of?
50
@49 Both Dominic and Goldy love regressive taxes...actually they love ANY taxes, but regressive taxes are the only ones that get put up. As long as it doesn't affect bikes. Bikes is Dominic and the crew's blind spot. They suck so much of Cascade's and Seattle Bike Blog's cock they become stupid fucking credulous hacks when it comes to them. Especially when it comes to reporting "facts" quoted by either Cascade or SBB. There is absolutely no critical thinking over there when it comes to bikes.
See Anna's post about "facts" and "studies" surrounding the "slow the fuck down" bill. Or, any post or news article where Dominic merely acts as a press agent for Cascade and SBB.
See Anna's post about "facts" and "studies" surrounding the "slow the fuck down" bill. Or, any post or news article where Dominic merely acts as a press agent for Cascade and SBB.
51
I'm a regular recreational rider, and I'll pay $25 on my next bike to be able to ride across the 520 bridge. I agree with Dominic that the transportation package should include funds for the remainder of the 520 bridge project so I don't get stuck circling Foster Island.
Rep. Ross Hunter
www.rosshunter.info
Rep. Ross Hunter
www.rosshunter.info
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