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News & ArtsMonday, February 11, 2013
Religion / LGBTQITSLFA They're Really Not All Like That
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:10 AM
Kathy Baldock, truly a NALT Christian, attempted to speak up for LGBT youth—and attempted to speak to the parents of LGBT youth—during a Q&A session after an ex-gay speaker's speech at a church in Sparks, Nevada. Here's the brief statement Baldock wanted to make:
Do you know the consequences of rejecting your gay youth as opposed to accepting them? If parents with gay children were to follow the teachings and therapeutic tools offered by Kent Paris, your gay youth are EIGHT times more apt to attempt suicide than those gay youth who are accepted. They may suffer depression SIX times more often than those who are accepted. They are THREE times more likely to get involved in drug and alcohol abuse than those gay youth that are accepted. They are THREE times more likely to contract HIV and/or STDs than accepted gay youth
This is research; this is scientific, peer reviewed research.
If you are the parent of a gay youth, when you leave here, stop on the way home and buy a package of razors, a bottle of whiskey, a hypodermic needle and a lifetime supply of antibiotics because that is the life you will more often impose on your gay child through your rejection and shaming. This is what you will be doing to the child you have been charged to raise in the way they should go.
Do not try to force your child to be something they are not, something to your liking. You will not only be responsible for the effects on their mental and physical health, you will also, in all likelihood, push them from God.
The video above shows what happened when Baldock rose to speak. Says Baldock:
Two men, one on either side of me told me it was time for me to leave. They grabbed my arms. One was behind me, doing the same. I pulled away and said, “You see. Don’t touch me. Do not touch me. I would suggest you go to Canyonwalker Connections. Do not touch me. Do not touch me. Do not touch me. Do not touch me.” And of course they did and they were. I slowed them down, told them I would leave and wanted to get my belongings.
But, as I gathered my book, bag and coat, I kept talking.
“You parents with gay youth, if you follow the teachings of Ken Paris, you might as well stop on the way home and get them a bottle of whiskey and a hypodermic needle because that is what you are doing to them with your rejection. Visit Canyonwalker Connections. See what I wrote about Paris. Visit CanyonwalkerConnections.com.”
At the same time, one man stepped between me and Mark Worsnop who was filming with his phone. Someone, it may have been the same man who blocked the filming, came behind Mark and put his knees into the back of Mark’s knees to collapse him over the chair. He too was escorted out. When you hear: “It’s called assault,” it is Mark speaking. He then told the guy, “Don’t do that again; I have fake knees.”
40
Kent Paris has had a profoundly positive influence on my life. Before I met him, I considered myself gay and was accepted by my mother and several friends in high school. Despite that acceptance, I was severely depressed. I cut myself frequently, and eventually put myself in the hospital with an overdose on medication. At that time, I realized I had to make a change, so I began counseling with Kent. Best decision of my life. Through Kent's counseling, Jesus has radically transformed my life. He has completely freed me from depression, and I no longer have the desire to harm myself! Nor do I have the desire anymore for a same-gender sexual relationship. I praise Jesus for the transformation He has made in me. I pray, with all my soul, that ministries like Kent's flourish, so that youth who struggle with same gender attractions will have the same opportunity I did for a renewed life.
39
Kathy, I am so hurt to think that there are actually people in Sparks that can be so totally homophobic. I am fourth generation from Nevada, my daughter is 5th generation and I am very embarrassed that this act of assault was waged against you for trying to give the audience the other side of the story. I believe that is called freedom of speech.
This behaviour comes from folks that live in a city that has many casinos, 24 hour gaming, drinking, even prostitution (though not legal). I do not deny these patrons their right to partake of this form of entertainment. This is even after I have seen people spend their last dollar, often times welfare checks, trying to hit the big bucks while their children sit in cars in the parking lot in the dead of summer and winter. I have also seen people leaving their children in the apron area (entrance area that is in front of the actual entrance) of a casino. It is their life and what they do with that life is really none of my business, and the same respect should be given to the LGBT community.
The world, as God wanted, is supposed to love one another with no questions. Bottom line Kathy, I thank you so much for being a voice for the rights of LGBT citizens. You have no idea how much I wish I could walk with you in your travels. That may not be something that can be realized, but I know that one thing is for sure. God guides your every step and speaks through your heart. Great blessings have been bestowed on you, the nice thing, is that you listened and know what to do with those blessings.
This behaviour comes from folks that live in a city that has many casinos, 24 hour gaming, drinking, even prostitution (though not legal). I do not deny these patrons their right to partake of this form of entertainment. This is even after I have seen people spend their last dollar, often times welfare checks, trying to hit the big bucks while their children sit in cars in the parking lot in the dead of summer and winter. I have also seen people leaving their children in the apron area (entrance area that is in front of the actual entrance) of a casino. It is their life and what they do with that life is really none of my business, and the same respect should be given to the LGBT community.
The world, as God wanted, is supposed to love one another with no questions. Bottom line Kathy, I thank you so much for being a voice for the rights of LGBT citizens. You have no idea how much I wish I could walk with you in your travels. That may not be something that can be realized, but I know that one thing is for sure. God guides your every step and speaks through your heart. Great blessings have been bestowed on you, the nice thing, is that you listened and know what to do with those blessings.
38
how fucked up is that? there's this little thing called freedom of speech, and all she's doing is citing facts and spreading love. I find it repulsive that church groups are allowed to protest the funerals of gay soldiers but an ally isn't allowed to have a few brief moments to speak. Sad.
37
@35: Actually that is Catholic Church tactics. Worked quite well during the crusades and such. In fact it worked so well that the NAZI party under Hitler didn't have to invent a single technique when they started using the big lie propaganda methods. So nope... Not Nazi-like at all. Merely church-like.
@34: Being fair to you requires me to acknowledge this post as a damn good one and spot on.
@34: Being fair to you requires me to acknowledge this post as a damn good one and spot on.
35
@13/14: Reducing large and diverse populations that you happen to have a personal disagreement with to little more than childish stereotypes, tarring them all with the brush of the worst of the lot, and using the image of the now-monolithic and loathsome group to publicly denounce them...nah, that's not Nazi-like at all. :P
I hope your glass house is more stone-proof than it looks from here.
I hope your glass house is more stone-proof than it looks from here.
34
@29: If she was allowed to be there in the first place, it's not trespassing. Additionally, from the video it looks like the security people tried to grab her arm(s) BEFORE verbally requesting that she leave. That would be quite a stretch to justify under trespassing prevention. Knocking out someone's knees from under them when they don't even know you're there is pretty clear-cut assault, as well. I don't know Nevada law, but if charges were filed I would be shocked if the church won.
Freedom of speech and association are, indeed, important things. Be clear on what they are, though; rights that prevent the GOVERNMENT from restricting what we can or cannot say and with whom we can and cannot associate. Not directly applicable. Even casting a much broader net with interpretation of those rights, Baldock didn't do anything that could reasonably be interpreted as infringing on them. There is no right to never interact with people you disagree with, nor is there a right to not be exposed to things you find offensive. You seem to be taking the stance that respecting someone's right to think what they want means never challenging them on it or even presenting an alternate viewpoint, which I frankly find bizarre.
Freedom of speech and association are, indeed, important things. Be clear on what they are, though; rights that prevent the GOVERNMENT from restricting what we can or cannot say and with whom we can and cannot associate. Not directly applicable. Even casting a much broader net with interpretation of those rights, Baldock didn't do anything that could reasonably be interpreted as infringing on them. There is no right to never interact with people you disagree with, nor is there a right to not be exposed to things you find offensive. You seem to be taking the stance that respecting someone's right to think what they want means never challenging them on it or even presenting an alternate viewpoint, which I frankly find bizarre.
32
@28 Right wing christian asshats never seem to have much interest in understanding the views of people who disagree w/ them.
31
Actually, that's small potatoes thinking. Send this hero some goddamn fucking huge gay lawyers. Fake Christian cowards don't respect polite, well-spoken opposition? Perhaps some excessive legal brutality is in order.
30
Someone send this hero some goddamn big gay bodyguards. See how the fake Christian cowards handle that.
29
@23 I don't think that's right BHL. A quick google search shows Nevada law does allow the use of reasonable physical force to protect property from trespassers.
@24 I see the freedom of speech and association as a bit more important than the gay rights agenda. At one time the notion that homosexual behavior wasn't necessarily a bad thing was considered a crazy idea. Were it not for the value our culture places on freedom of thought I'm not sure we ever would have had a gay rights movement.
@24 I see the freedom of speech and association as a bit more important than the gay rights agenda. At one time the notion that homosexual behavior wasn't necessarily a bad thing was considered a crazy idea. Were it not for the value our culture places on freedom of thought I'm not sure we ever would have had a gay rights movement.
28
This was a QA period in which Kent Paris was speaking. Kathy Baldock was simply going to ask a few questions. Nothing else. The church where the meeting was held had at least 6 security guys (all off duty cops) jump on her before she could finish even saying hello. Pretty bad. At least Kathy should have been able to speak and IF she was disruptive THEN ask her to leave. But that isnt what happened. She had just barely started to speak and she was dragged out of the building.
The camera person did nothing except take the short video. He was strong armed and knocked to the floor and also dragged out.
Heck of a way for a church to act!
The camera person did nothing except take the short video. He was strong armed and knocked to the floor and also dragged out.
Heck of a way for a church to act!
27
I've been following Kathy's blog for months. I'm an Ignostic, but I have a TON of respect for the way this lady has put herself out there, time and again, on behalf of the LGBT community and our youth in particular.
She takes a lot of heat for what she's doing... up to and including threats of torture and death. But she keeps going, keeps spreading the message, keeps expending her time and energy and money on getting her message out there.
I don't have to believe in her god to respect what she does... the fact is, a good portion of the world believes in her god... and those people need to hear about love, to counteract all they hear about hate. Most of them are not going to listen to us, but they may listen to her, because she is "one of them."
She's an amazing lady... and whether you agree with her faith or not, she has done much to earn our respect for her as a staunch ally, and a loving voice shining light into the darkness created by hateful bigots.
She takes a lot of heat for what she's doing... up to and including threats of torture and death. But she keeps going, keeps spreading the message, keeps expending her time and energy and money on getting her message out there.
I don't have to believe in her god to respect what she does... the fact is, a good portion of the world believes in her god... and those people need to hear about love, to counteract all they hear about hate. Most of them are not going to listen to us, but they may listen to her, because she is "one of them."
She's an amazing lady... and whether you agree with her faith or not, she has done much to earn our respect for her as a staunch ally, and a loving voice shining light into the darkness created by hateful bigots.
26
Hey I was there... She got up to speak and ask Kent Paris some questions but the church didn't give her a chance to say anything! Literally I was on camera and said nothing at all. Two strong arm church security guys (off duty cops) grabbed me and knocked out my knees. I didn't even see them coming. Kathy had only said hello. Ha!
25
That chick has serious clit. All hail the brave ones - history will smile upon them.
I always think of the kids and grandkids of the bigots, and how they will cringe in horror when they learn - when they see with their own eyes as in this film, their dads about ready to bodily drag a woman out of a public venue for daring to stand up and speak on behalf of a vulnerable minority. Damn.
That chick has serious clit. All hail the brave ones - history will smile upon them.
I always think of the kids and grandkids of the bigots, and how they will cringe in horror when they learn - when they see with their own eyes as in this film, their dads about ready to bodily drag a woman out of a public venue for daring to stand up and speak on behalf of a vulnerable minority. Damn.
24
18, apply some critical thinking to what you're defending. This wasn't a normal service, the speaker wasn't disrupting their specific brand of worship. It was a meeting designed to teach people how to torture their kids, make their lives miserable, and still feel that they're doing a 'holy' thing. She brought facts to these people, showing them what they want to do. They used force to prevent her from doing so. Defending their actions is despicable.
23
@18--They had a right to ask her to leave. They had a right to contact the police if she did not do so, and have them remove her if necessary.
They did not have a right to use physical force against her unless and until she presented a threat, which she clearly did not do.
They did not have a right to use physical force against her unless and until she presented a threat, which she clearly did not do.
22
@13 Being angry with religion is fine, but wanting to believe in something beyond this life is human nature. Death is scary and for those that find solace in the idea of a hereafter (a question none of us can answer) shouldn't be belittled for it. The almighty being theory is about as likely as there being nothing after this life. There are infinite possibilities of what happens.
So when Christians use moral grounds to do terrible things, call them on their hypocrisy. Thinking they are bad or stupid solely for wanting that solace is condescending and makes you look like a jerk.
So when Christians use moral grounds to do terrible things, call them on their hypocrisy. Thinking they are bad or stupid solely for wanting that solace is condescending and makes you look like a jerk.
21
Oh, for pete's sake, @13. There's a huge difference between people who believe in magical cloud beings and Nazis. Like people who believe they've been abducted by aliens, people with non-science-based beliefs may be a little nutty, but they are not necessarily fascist nor even immature. It's the quest for status within a powerful, violent group that makes one an evil Nazi, not the belief in fairies. You might as well say that reading a horoscope makes someone "close to a Nazi."
20
@18, She was speaking during the Q&A session, so she was not disrupting anyone. Apparently, freedom of speech does not extend to ex-gay seminars.
19
What a brave human being she is. And this brave human being should sue the living shit out of those intolerant thugs. And then keep telling the truth based in all that inconvenient science with all its sinful reality-based assessments.
18
I agree w/ the women's message, but if she was disrupting their event I can't really blame them for throwing her out. On the other hand, if it was her turn to talk and they shut her down because they didn't like what she had to say, that's a definite dick move.
16
See, if you want to change hearts and minds, this is what you do. You don't engage in name calling. You don't let loose a stream of profanity. You confront the opposing side with facts and evidence and you allow them to show their true colors. And then allow people to make up their own minds.
Taking the high road is difficult. Being willing and able to engage is hard. It takes courage. It takes patience. It takes wisdom and restraint. It takes knowing your opposition beyond mere caricatures and being willing to talk to them on their terms. And it doesn't get the same immediate hit of attention that yelling and screaming often does.
But it changes minds.
Taking the high road is difficult. Being willing and able to engage is hard. It takes courage. It takes patience. It takes wisdom and restraint. It takes knowing your opposition beyond mere caricatures and being willing to talk to them on their terms. And it doesn't get the same immediate hit of attention that yelling and screaming often does.
But it changes minds.
15
Welcome to the world of being kicked out, Kathy. Once you get over the shock it is really liberating. There is a crowd of us, John Shore is probably the most famous, that are so very proud of you. Well done.
14
Or what did Bill Maher call them? The Mafia Wives? Spending their time oblivious of the horror that makes their "spiritual comfort" possible.
13
Hearing the phrase "not all christians are like that" is really close to saying "Not all Nazi's are like that".
Sorry...if you belive in magical cloud beings grow the fuck up..I don't caree how good your intentions are.
Sorry...if you belive in magical cloud beings grow the fuck up..I don't caree how good your intentions are.
12
Amen, sister! Teach it like you preach it!
Anyone who wants to see a Christian persecuted for speaking the truth, check it out.
Anyone who wants to see a Christian persecuted for speaking the truth, check it out.
6
@5 Dan has linked to John Shore's blog on a number of occasions. He's definitely one of the good ones. Takes a lot of heat from the evangelical community (who must feel quite threatened by his emerging popularity), but he, along with Ms. Baldock above, are doing great work.
5
Oh the courage! Very inspiring.
Speaking of NALT Christians, John Shore's latest blog post is pretty rad. If anybody knows how to put his info up, that would be good. I'll be lucky if I can post this comment :) Not super tech-savvy.
Speaking of NALT Christians, John Shore's latest blog post is pretty rad. If anybody knows how to put his info up, that would be good. I'll be lucky if I can post this comment :) Not super tech-savvy.
4
Oh, hon, charge them with assault. You were obviously under control and speaking calmly, and giving them no reason to grab you.
2
The Right spews hatred at the top of their lungs, but is so afraid of the truth that they have to resort to physical removal and assault in order to supress it. If they truly believed the bullshit they were spewing, they would have no problem with what she was saying. But they can't refute it, so they must muzzle it.
Keep speaking up Kathy. Your message needs to be heard.
Keep speaking up Kathy. Your message needs to be heard.
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