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News & ArtsWednesday, February 6, 2013
Video of the Day Lunchtime Quickie: Let's Play Who's The Bigger Asshole...
Posted by Kelly O on Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 12:30 PM
Druggie teen ("Adios!")... Or vengeful judge?
65
So it was personal, which is not a good look for the judge. But this is COURT, motherfucker! What the fuck was she thinking? I'm all for a proper 'fuck da police' moment but nothing the judge said warranted that kind of disrespect from her. The difference between protest and whining is righteousness, and it's not on her side.
64
Yes, anon1256, "pearl clutchers." You've essentially equated all jails and prisons as being alike, as if she's going to be sharing a cell with psychopathic murderers. That's the very definition of pearl clutching, along with all the overexaggerated claims of how this is going to ruin her forever.
63
That judge is a Napoleonic cunt.
Who has no qualms about wasting tax payer dollars to avenge his own insecurely imagined slights.
He should be disbarred.
Who has no qualms about wasting tax payer dollars to avenge his own insecurely imagined slights.
He should be disbarred.
62
But she's not going to jail after all.
And yes, she's the idiot.
http://dlisted.com/2013/02/08/girl-who-g…
And yes, she's the idiot.
http://dlisted.com/2013/02/08/girl-who-g…
61
As a lawyer, I'd say that, without a doubt, the judge is the bigger asshole. He either doesn't know, or doesn't care, about the difference between criminal and civil contempt.
A finding of criminal contempt, which requires a formal prosecution and a finding of guilt, permits a party to be punished for some kind of wrongdoing in the court. See, e.g., R.C.W. 7.21.040 or Fed. R. Crim. P. 42. Although the judge says he's finding the druggie girl "in direct criminal contempt," he doesn't actually have the power to do so.
The judge could have found her in civil contempt, but then he couldn't have punished her by sending her to jail--he could only have sent her to jail until she complied with the rules and orders of the court (e.g. I'm sending you to jail until you're ready to behave with respect in my courtroom).
A judge who doesn't give a shit about the rule of law is definitely a bigger asshole than a teenager who doesn't give a shit about the decorum and majesty of an asshole judge.
A finding of criminal contempt, which requires a formal prosecution and a finding of guilt, permits a party to be punished for some kind of wrongdoing in the court. See, e.g., R.C.W. 7.21.040 or Fed. R. Crim. P. 42. Although the judge says he's finding the druggie girl "in direct criminal contempt," he doesn't actually have the power to do so.
The judge could have found her in civil contempt, but then he couldn't have punished her by sending her to jail--he could only have sent her to jail until she complied with the rules and orders of the court (e.g. I'm sending you to jail until you're ready to behave with respect in my courtroom).
A judge who doesn't give a shit about the rule of law is definitely a bigger asshole than a teenager who doesn't give a shit about the decorum and majesty of an asshole judge.
60
For myself, I am horrified by jail time.
I respectfully submit "In Defense of Flogging" by Peter Moskos.
I respectfully submit "In Defense of Flogging" by Peter Moskos.
59
@19, I am absolutely okay with someone flipping off and cursing at a judge going to jail. Thirty days does seem long; hopefully, she will soon be given a chance to apologize and get released with time served.
There are places where we expect a minimum standard of behavior. Court in session is one of those places. Her actions here don't meet that low bar.
There are places where we expect a minimum standard of behavior. Court in session is one of those places. Her actions here don't meet that low bar.
58
@56 - Not at all. I'd entertain voting rights at 16 as I'd like to get youth engaged as soon as possible. Beside driving that I'd keep at 18, I tend to believe that legal age limits on the other practices you mention are counter-productive. None of this is inconsistent with the scientific reality of human development especially considering the significant number of people who for one reason or another never seem to gain the 'executive functions' described above.
@57 - The horrifying aspect isn't being called a pearl-clutcher but the callous minimizing of incarcerating young offenders that it implies. I think that people should really lay off the systematic portrayal of a society under constant assault by deviants found in the corporate media for it is taking a toll on their ability to be compassionate and ultimately to be effective in addressing societal ills.
@57 - The horrifying aspect isn't being called a pearl-clutcher but the callous minimizing of incarcerating young offenders that it implies. I think that people should really lay off the systematic portrayal of a society under constant assault by deviants found in the corporate media for it is taking a toll on their ability to be compassionate and ultimately to be effective in addressing societal ills.
57
@53: Any outraged response to being called a pearl-clutcher that begins with "I am positively horrified ..." is deserving of laughter, regardless of content. Just an FYI.
55
@54 - 18 is the legal definition of adulthood and is mostly conditioned by matters like entering the workforce.
As for developmental age:
The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do. The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:
Focusing attention
Organizing thoughts and problem solving
Foreseeing and weighing possible consequences of behavior
Considering the future and making predictions
Forming strategies and planning
Ability to balance short-term rewards with long term goals
Shifting/adjusting behavior when situations change
Impulse control and delaying gratification
Modulation of intense emotions
Inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior
Simultaneously considering multiple streams of information when faced with complex and challenging information
This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations. Brain research indicating that brain development is not complete until near the age of 25, refers specifically to the development of the prefrontal cortex.
http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familylife/tech_a…
As for developmental age:
The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do. The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:
Focusing attention
Organizing thoughts and problem solving
Foreseeing and weighing possible consequences of behavior
Considering the future and making predictions
Forming strategies and planning
Ability to balance short-term rewards with long term goals
Shifting/adjusting behavior when situations change
Impulse control and delaying gratification
Modulation of intense emotions
Inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior
Simultaneously considering multiple streams of information when faced with complex and challenging information
This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations. Brain research indicating that brain development is not complete until near the age of 25, refers specifically to the development of the prefrontal cortex.
http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familylife/tech_a…
53
@49 - "Pearl clutchers"? I am positively horrified to see so many trivializing the sending to jail of a teenager who hardly qualifies as a hardened criminal. This is truly the kind of despicable behavior that makes me lose my confidence in people. What a bunch of sick fucks!
52
@47 - RICK ROSS! Her jewels are worth just as much as his!
http://cdn.popdust.com/wp-content/upload…
I think this girl is high as a kite. Watch her eyes.
http://cdn.popdust.com/wp-content/upload…
I think this girl is high as a kite. Watch her eyes.
50
@47: Yeah, I was wondering about that, too. I know the 4Chanian interpretation, not familiar with it in reference to money.
Cracked: The question isn't "Do you support the drug war?" (I don't.) The question is "Who's the bigger asshole?" The most charitable interpretation I can summon up is that she is high and stupid.
@49: Yeah.
Some of you who know more may wish to correct me, but doesn't $5,000 bail mean you need to come up with $50, and $10,000 means you need to come up with $100? Unless, of course, you plan to jump bail. Am I at least in the ballpark?
Cracked: The question isn't "Do you support the drug war?" (I don't.) The question is "Who's the bigger asshole?" The most charitable interpretation I can summon up is that she is high and stupid.
@49: Yeah.
Some of you who know more may wish to correct me, but doesn't $5,000 bail mean you need to come up with $50, and $10,000 means you need to come up with $100? Unless, of course, you plan to jump bail. Am I at least in the ballpark?
49
@ 43, she had Xanax without a prescription. Not exactly "drug war" stuff there. Actually, if social conservatives are to be believed, you can't call her a druggie at all.
Anyway, I'll caution you against making assumptions about her situation. Courts have a very long habit of encouraging people NOT to represent themselves, not because judges are lawyers in league who are doing it for their profession, but because lay people are very unqualified to represent themselves in court. That said, the right to pro se representation is guaranteed and courts always respect it. So if you have a REASON to believe she was "forced" into appearing pro se, you should state it.
Anyway, I'm all in favor of flip defendants getting contempt of court sentences. The pearl clutchers claiming that her life will be ruined should keep in mind that a) that was either already assured if this was a felony conviction (which I doubt, but you never know), and b) contempt of court jailings are NOT part of a felony record.
Anyway, I'll caution you against making assumptions about her situation. Courts have a very long habit of encouraging people NOT to represent themselves, not because judges are lawyers in league who are doing it for their profession, but because lay people are very unqualified to represent themselves in court. That said, the right to pro se representation is guaranteed and courts always respect it. So if you have a REASON to believe she was "forced" into appearing pro se, you should state it.
Anyway, I'm all in favor of flip defendants getting contempt of court sentences. The pearl clutchers claiming that her life will be ruined should keep in mind that a) that was either already assured if this was a felony conviction (which I doubt, but you never know), and b) contempt of court jailings are NOT part of a felony record.
48
I do think it should be pointed out that she is almost certainly high on something during this appearance, making her behavior and comments understandable if not forgivable. Not worth 30 days at least...
46
cracked - you are one of the few talking common sense here. Bravo!
The drug war is bullshit, and this admittedly clueless young woman did not deserve what she got from this power-tripping asshole of a judge. A few days community service? Sure, that might make sense. But 30 days in jail? Sorry, i don't give a shit what she said to the judge - she should never have been put in that position. Shame on Florida, and shame on our entire country for the bogus War On Drugs!
The drug war is bullshit, and this admittedly clueless young woman did not deserve what she got from this power-tripping asshole of a judge. A few days community service? Sure, that might make sense. But 30 days in jail? Sorry, i don't give a shit what she said to the judge - she should never have been put in that position. Shame on Florida, and shame on our entire country for the bogus War On Drugs!
45
Here's here 2nd appearance. Goes a lot better with an attorney doesn't it? On the other hand, her chances of staying off drugs are, shall we say, less than 100%, so she's probably going to be in and out...
And what is the deal here? One count of possession for each pill? Are you kidding me? You all like this shit?
And what is the deal here? One count of possession for each pill? Are you kidding me? You all like this shit?
44
@34 She's a working adult, making $250 week? Bet her "jewelry" is worth about $60 resale. No wonder this country is such a mess with so many of us getting their big daily thrill out of punishing the harmless, stupid and ignorant, but not criminal bankers.
43
Wow, you folks here sure love the drug war and all the jail time we pay for to keep it going. Shit.
She didn't even have a lawyer to speak for her or keep her out of trouble. Rich folks have lawyers to keep them from saying stupid shit. Do any of you actually understand that is what lawyers are there for, to act as intermediaries for people who are ignorant of the workings of the law or how to act in court?
You all claim she is at fault, yet how many of you charged with a crime are foolish enough to choose to represent yourself in court proceedings. This young woman appears to have been FORCED to represent herself. A defendant with true representation would have gone over all the standard questions ahead of time with their attorney and had their attorney speak for them.
Actually, here in King Co., at least as of ten years ago, the public defenders usually do a pretty good job of trying to keep people from hurting themselves through their ignorance.
She didn't even have a lawyer to speak for her or keep her out of trouble. Rich folks have lawyers to keep them from saying stupid shit. Do any of you actually understand that is what lawyers are there for, to act as intermediaries for people who are ignorant of the workings of the law or how to act in court?
You all claim she is at fault, yet how many of you charged with a crime are foolish enough to choose to represent yourself in court proceedings. This young woman appears to have been FORCED to represent herself. A defendant with true representation would have gone over all the standard questions ahead of time with their attorney and had their attorney speak for them.
Actually, here in King Co., at least as of ten years ago, the public defenders usually do a pretty good job of trying to keep people from hurting themselves through their ignorance.
42
What a stupid title to this article. There's no question - the bitch in the orange jumper is not only the "asshole" but she's a stupid, disrespectful, smart-assed asshole. Glad she went to prison.
41
She totally didn't seem like a shithead who routinely avoids consequences through a combination of attitude and cuteness. I thought she actually got off easy. She was the asshole.
40
It's definitely the judge. Doubled her bail 'cause she said "Adios"? Give me a break. What a power-tripper. I'm so not surprised this is Florida.
39
What is ridiculous is that she is in jail and being hold on $5-10k for possessing a bottle of Xanax/Alprazolam. DId she blow it with her antics in front of the Judge? Yes, it is his courtroom, he is king, and has a bunch of leeway to label someone in contempt, even though his actions were borderline contempt with his "bye bye"..
We are talking about a bottle of Xanax, which is pretty easily can be obtained...
However, whether she had a bunch of unpaid parking tickets or a bottle of Xanax, she can't have that attitude toward the judge, and it shows by he punished her with 30 days of contempt in jail.
We are talking about a bottle of Xanax, which is pretty easily can be obtained...
However, whether she had a bunch of unpaid parking tickets or a bottle of Xanax, she can't have that attitude toward the judge, and it shows by he punished her with 30 days of contempt in jail.
34
@31 - she is not a kid, she is an adult -- hard to tell from how she acts granted...., but the fact she works and was asked to make her own bail was a clue - a minor would have been treated totally differently in these circumstances
32
Super interesting: Gawker had this vid up yesterday and most commenters thought the judge was in the wrong. Sloggers lining up against the girl show how Seattle's still a law-and-order kind of town.
31
Oh word, a girl who has obviously got serious problems in her life and has probably never had even the tiniest bit of power to do anything about them cops a bit of an attitude when yet another power-tripping older man tries to tell her what to do, and some of you fuckin' yuppie assholes spend a whole thread talking about how stupid she is and smugly justifying jail time for a kid. A kid!
What the fuck.
What the fuck.
30
@27 - I didn't suggest she should get a pass or that he necessarily condemned her to a life of crime. He could have sentenced her to some kind of community service that would have expanded her horizons. Punishment should also entails some reward for following through, especially for a young offender without priors. She still has choices but probably not as many as before this sentence.
29
Maybe she'll learn something about taking things seriously next time. She acted like an idiot and totally deserved that. That's a courtroom and a judge, not your dad. He has to keep it a professional place, and she shouldn't be such a dipshit.
28
I think they're both adorbs.
Put them on the TV! Like what if they had to share an apartment? Or drive to Vegas and back together? Call their people. I'm serious.
Put them on the TV! Like what if they had to share an apartment? Or drive to Vegas and back together? Call their people. I'm serious.
27
@21 I would say self reflection is a trait that education doesn't teach.
People's actions have consequences, and yes, this judge made a dick move, but she shouldn't get a pass. What she did was stupid and hot-headed and hopefully a jail sentence will get her to reflect on her actions.
Is the jail sentence extreme? Yes, but from my experience, when my punishment has been extreme I tend to reflect on what I did to get myself into the situation much more than when I've gotten a slap on the wrist. It has made me grow to the point where I would never put myself in a situation like this.
I don't know how this young lady will react, but saying he has just sentenced her to a life of crime is a bit extreme, no? Her choices going forward are still her own.
People's actions have consequences, and yes, this judge made a dick move, but she shouldn't get a pass. What she did was stupid and hot-headed and hopefully a jail sentence will get her to reflect on her actions.
Is the jail sentence extreme? Yes, but from my experience, when my punishment has been extreme I tend to reflect on what I did to get myself into the situation much more than when I've gotten a slap on the wrist. It has made me grow to the point where I would never put myself in a situation like this.
I don't know how this young lady will react, but saying he has just sentenced her to a life of crime is a bit extreme, no? Her choices going forward are still her own.
26
He gave her so many outs, are you on drugs? You need to take this seriously, did you say that? And she escalated and got ruder and ruder. She could have answered at the end, "no your Honor," or "my apologies your honor." Done. Over.
The worst thing he could have done was let her get away with tell a judge "f-you" in open court. Guarantee that woman has been rude to her parents, teachers, employers - everyone, and has laughed off the consequences. Maybe this will be her wake-up call, her chance to realize she needs to turn her life around.
The worst thing he could have done was let her get away with tell a judge "f-you" in open court. Guarantee that woman has been rude to her parents, teachers, employers - everyone, and has laughed off the consequences. Maybe this will be her wake-up call, her chance to realize she needs to turn her life around.
21
@14 - Stupidity (or being insecure) isn't a crime. It's a condition, which often can be treated with some form of education she most likely won't be getting in jail or with diminished ability of staying in the job market.
19
30 days for someone with no priors isn't going to teach her respect for the law. It will teach her the outlook of the other people in jail.
One day in jail should be enough to hate it but not enough to get used to it. And if I was a tax payer in FLA, I wouldn't want my money going to jailing her because she bruised the judges honour. Community service is cheaper or even electronic home monitoring. Those taxpayers in FLA must be pretty flush to vote in guys like this, or are they just vindictive assholes too?
@18 So, you believe in a society where acting silly or being rude should be punished with jail time?
This is why our drug laws are such a travesty. ONce in the maw of the system they turn little things into big things.
One day in jail should be enough to hate it but not enough to get used to it. And if I was a tax payer in FLA, I wouldn't want my money going to jailing her because she bruised the judges honour. Community service is cheaper or even electronic home monitoring. Those taxpayers in FLA must be pretty flush to vote in guys like this, or are they just vindictive assholes too?
@18 So, you believe in a society where acting silly or being rude should be punished with jail time?
This is why our drug laws are such a travesty. ONce in the maw of the system they turn little things into big things.
18
Eh, 30 days might have been a bit much but that stupid, stupid girl needs to learn how to conduct herself properly. If you want to run around pretending like you're a very irresponsible adult you're going to have to deal with the consequences that come with that and you best learn to deal with them like an adult. I have zero sympathy for her.
17
Dumb behavior by the girl, but I always hate the "why are you laughing, this is serious" line. Nervous laughter is a normal reaction.
16
Uh Phoebe, that happens all the time. Defendants are require to explain assets so the judge can set bail properly.
15
Bad judge. To begin with, it's an overreach of the court to ask a defendant to provide personal information such as her assets in open court for all to hear.
14
@8 I'd be surprised if she does the whole 30 days. In any case, throwing the bird to a judge (evidently the audio went out when she said "fuck you", but she admitted to saying it) is a blindingly, amazingly, astoundingly stupid thing to do, and I'm not surprised that the judge responded the way he did. I would guess that if she had apologized at any point, she would have been treated far more leniently.
13
30 days seems 20 days too long, but she is really immature and naive about how you act in front of a judge.
12
The asshole move occurred when the judge (after giving the girl a snarky "bye-bye") doubles her bond when she gives him a snarky "adios."
This guy is a thin-skinned, narcissistic little tin god who should be behind a counter at the DMV instead of sitting on the bench.
This guy is a thin-skinned, narcissistic little tin god who should be behind a counter at the DMV instead of sitting on the bench.
11
Perhaps those 30 days can be spent learning about jewelry valuation. Or how not to get arrested while on E. She's gotta wise up at some point.
8
I just don't see how spending 30 days in jail is going to help that kid. Shameful travesty of justice.
7
This reminds me the time I was in court for a traffic thing. A teenage girl was standing in front of the judge for a 'Drinking Under Age' and the judge was trying to help her. He asked her if there was any reason she deserved leniency?
"Uh...I dunno." She replied.
"C'mon give me something," The judge said, "You were found having downed an entire bottle of Vodka, what do you have to say for yourself?'
"Well, I really just don't like the darker liquors." She responded.
There was a collective groan from every single other person in the courtroom.
Young and stupid often go hand in hand.
"Uh...I dunno." She replied.
"C'mon give me something," The judge said, "You were found having downed an entire bottle of Vodka, what do you have to say for yourself?'
"Well, I really just don't like the darker liquors." She responded.
There was a collective groan from every single other person in the courtroom.
Young and stupid often go hand in hand.
1
Sorry, I'm with the judge. Her lawyer obviously did not explain what a courtroom is. She was rude, flip, did not answer questions and treated the whole thing as a joke. She clearly was there for a reason and yet, didn't care.
If I were a judge, I would have done the exact same thing.
If I were a judge, I would have done the exact same thing.
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