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News & ArtsMonday, February 4, 2013
Health / Horrors / Chow / Science My Actual Hippie Juice Fast vs. Cienna Madrid's QFC Juice Cleanse™
Posted by Anna Minard on Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 11:59 AM
- ANNA MINARD
- Happy Monday! This is my breakfast. My entire breakfast.
I am a comfort animal—a devoted hedonist, a coffee addict, a person who many weekday mornings sits down to a full breakfast of sausage and eggs. My friends do not seem confident about the juice thing. This is, after all, a juice fast whose instructions read, in part: "If you absolutely need to eat, first try raw food because that keeps the enzymes from moving back into your digestion. But the food desire is more of a head game. You can easily survive 30 days without food." EASILY! Really. WHO KNEW. When I told my friend it meant I couldn't drink coffee, she laughed so hard she hit her head on a table.
The company representative said I could choose a three-day fast, but "many people say they start to feel really good on the third day and wished they had gone for the five-day instead." So I went for it. It consists of four 16-ounce juices a day. "Once your juice arrives, remove solid foods from your diet, flood the body with healthy nutrient-dense and enzyme-packed juice," warble the instructions.
- ANNA MINARD
- This is three days' worth of "food." I mean juice. I mean, oh, good lord.
In the time it took to write this post, I drank my first green-brown juice. It made my mouth tingle with fennel. I feel cleansed-er already. And hungry as fuck.
Meanwhile, Megan Seling just sent an officewide e-mail with a picture of the four different kinds of her fucking amazing cupcakes she just brought in for everybody. She says: "I even brought my culinary torch for the brulee!" I AM NOT KIDDING.
We shall see, Slog. We shall see.
1
Couple questions:
1. What exactly is it you guys are cleansing?
2. Can you exercise while on a juice cleanse...seems like it would be dangerous.
1. What exactly is it you guys are cleansing?
2. Can you exercise while on a juice cleanse...seems like it would be dangerous.
2
I'd like to know the answer to #2 in @1 as well.
Which one did you get? a little bit fruity/salty sweet/ or grass fed?
I want to do this. Sounds awesome.
Which one did you get? a little bit fruity/salty sweet/ or grass fed?
I want to do this. Sounds awesome.
3
@1 and 2: I have no idea what we're cleansing or if we can exercise. @2 I am doing "salty sweet," so all my friends spent the weekend talking about my new "salty sweet nut mylk" diet.
6
Yes, you can exercise while on a juice fast. If you are a serious body builder you may want to add some form of protein - chia seeds or spirulina. However, Kale, which is a staple of most juice diets has a fairly high amount of protein. A typical 64oz daily juice diet has 40-60 grams of protein which is enough for most people.
One thing I've never seen anyone talk about in regards to juice diets is, after day 3-4, your sweat smells like juice, your urine smells like juice and your bowel movements are bright green.... It may be different if you're on a 'brown' juice diet...
I find that the hardest part is drinking enough liquids. On top of the 32-64oz of juice/day you're also supposed to drink 32-64oz of water/herbal tea/coconut water, but it is hard to be thirsty when you're drinking that much juice!
One thing I've never seen anyone talk about in regards to juice diets is, after day 3-4, your sweat smells like juice, your urine smells like juice and your bowel movements are bright green.... It may be different if you're on a 'brown' juice diet...
I find that the hardest part is drinking enough liquids. On top of the 32-64oz of juice/day you're also supposed to drink 32-64oz of water/herbal tea/coconut water, but it is hard to be thirsty when you're drinking that much juice!
7
Do it to the maximum, take it why you asking them?
Don't listen to them suckers when they say you too irrational.
See I said I'm a king and them lames started laughing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEC5SaBJg…
9
You're not cleansing anything you wouldn't be cleansing if you were eating solid food. Your kidneys and liver do not know the difference. I can't believe people fall for this shit.
10
@9 I think you're right. And Minnard and Madrid had better "cleanse" their own toilets because things are going to get messy.
11
@4 yes, chocolate milk counts as juice, as does coffee, wine, hard alcohol, yogurts, and basically anything else I can successfully strain through my teeth.
And since I'm on more of a curse cleanse than a juice cleanse, I reserve the right to quit whenever I want.
And since I'm on more of a curse cleanse than a juice cleanse, I reserve the right to quit whenever I want.
15
I went a month without eating solid foods once. Of course that was because I had an abcess in my digestive system that made it painful to eat, and I nearly starved to death. I got down to about 110 lbs before I was able to have surgery that I'm almost certain saved my life. Have fun!
16
Meanwhile, Megan Seling just sent an officewide e-mail with a picture of the four different kinds of her fucking amazing cupcakes…
I missed the "the" in that sentence and parsed it in a really wrong way.
20
blocked that bold tag, here:
A "juice diet" sounds a lot less sexy when it's called a "sugar diet", which is what it usually amounts to.
A "juice diet" sounds a lot less sexy when it's called a "sugar diet", which is what it usually amounts to.
21
"If you are a serious body builder you may want to add some form of protein - chia seeds or spirulina"
If you are a serious body builder I don't think "chia seeds or spirulina" will cut it to avoid injury.
If you are a serious body builder I don't think "chia seeds or spirulina" will cut it to avoid injury.
23
Whatever you're doing should ensure that you receive necessary vitamins and minerals during the "cleanse".
And that you continue drinking water and exercising at the level you were beforehand.
If you're trying to rebuild your telomeres and clear out junk in your cells, don't do this for more than two weeks without medical supervision.
Better to do a reduced caloric intake at the recommended minimum level, than to overdo it and cause problems.
Also, avoid "empty" calories, as these can be dangerous.
And that you continue drinking water and exercising at the level you were beforehand.
If you're trying to rebuild your telomeres and clear out junk in your cells, don't do this for more than two weeks without medical supervision.
Better to do a reduced caloric intake at the recommended minimum level, than to overdo it and cause problems.
Also, avoid "empty" calories, as these can be dangerous.
24
@12 - if you make your own, it costs about $10-12/day ($20-30 if you want 'organic') plus about an hour to process, plus whatever time it takes you to get fresh produce every few days. 4 bottles of juice/day at $45/day is expensive, but I don't think it is outlandish especially since it claims to be 'organic'.
64oz of juice takes about 3-4lb of kale ($3-5), 1 cucumber ($1), 1 whole bunch/head of celery ($1-3), 2 apples ($1), 1-2lb of carrots ($1-2), 1 lemon, a piece of ginger, plus another 1-2lbs of miscellaneous produce ($3). Obviously the exact recipe you use will change the proportions, but it takes a lot of produce to make 64oz of juice.
I suspect that most people in Seattle, particularly the type that would even consider a juice diet, are already spending close to $45/day on 'food' (Lattes, Cupcakes, lunch, dinner..etc..etc.)
64oz of juice takes about 3-4lb of kale ($3-5), 1 cucumber ($1), 1 whole bunch/head of celery ($1-3), 2 apples ($1), 1-2lb of carrots ($1-2), 1 lemon, a piece of ginger, plus another 1-2lbs of miscellaneous produce ($3). Obviously the exact recipe you use will change the proportions, but it takes a lot of produce to make 64oz of juice.
I suspect that most people in Seattle, particularly the type that would even consider a juice diet, are already spending close to $45/day on 'food' (Lattes, Cupcakes, lunch, dinner..etc..etc.)
25
Actually most people in print journalism don't accept freebies valued at $230. But then, you guys aren't exactly known for your ethics.
26
@25 depends. A number of news stories today about a lack of ethics in various forms of journalism in America and the EU.
They at least admit what they're doing.
Open Sores for the Fast (ing) Win.
They at least admit what they're doing.
Open Sores for the Fast (ing) Win.
27
I find it highly unlikely that most people in Seattle routinely spend $45/day on food, or even 'food.' Also, unless you are a sulcata tortoise there is absolutlely no need for you to put 3-4 lbs [!!!] of kale into your body in a single day, liquid or otherwise.
28
@27, You probably wouldn't eat 3-4 oranges, but that's how many are in an 8oz glass of orange juice. 3-6 apples in a cup of apple juice. About 1lb of carrots makes 1 cup of juice. I don't think you can compare whole weights to juiced weights. (Yes, there is a lot of 'leftover' from making juice. I feed it to our chickens and turkeys..)
I haven't been to Seattle in a couple years, but last time I was there, $45 would get you a coffee and a muffin ($8), lunch ($10-15) which leaves you with $22-27 for dinner. And that's assuming you don't have a couple sodas ($1 each) or snacks (some amount of $), or alcohol ($1-10) along the way. If you are eating solely food that is prepared for you (Like the Hippie Juice) it is not inexpensive. Maybe Cienna can chime in with the cost of her liquid diet.
Sorry about the wording, I should have said, "Most people in Seattle who would consider a juice diet..." The people living on $5-10/day for food, which is about the minimum for any normal person, are probably not thinking about a juice diet.
I haven't been to Seattle in a couple years, but last time I was there, $45 would get you a coffee and a muffin ($8), lunch ($10-15) which leaves you with $22-27 for dinner. And that's assuming you don't have a couple sodas ($1 each) or snacks (some amount of $), or alcohol ($1-10) along the way. If you are eating solely food that is prepared for you (Like the Hippie Juice) it is not inexpensive. Maybe Cienna can chime in with the cost of her liquid diet.
Sorry about the wording, I should have said, "Most people in Seattle who would consider a juice diet..." The people living on $5-10/day for food, which is about the minimum for any normal person, are probably not thinking about a juice diet.
29
@23 - did you really just said "rebuild your telomeres?" Are you kidding? Or is there some science to back up claims of increased telomerase activity without carcinogenicity in these stupid bottles of frappéd lettuce?
30
@28, there are many, many people in the Seattle area making do with less than $5 a day for food.
@29, you are mistaking the ramblings of Will for sentient thoughts. He doesn't believe that, or anything else; he just wanted to use the word "telomeres" so he could fool credulous people into thinking he was smart. Being inept, he failed at that mission, and just made himself look like a big fat floppy boob yet again, which is the only thing he's really good at.
@29, you are mistaking the ramblings of Will for sentient thoughts. He doesn't believe that, or anything else; he just wanted to use the word "telomeres" so he could fool credulous people into thinking he was smart. Being inept, he failed at that mission, and just made himself look like a big fat floppy boob yet again, which is the only thing he's really good at.
31
@30 - Just checking. You never know when someone is an actual scientician, and I vaguely recalled that he may be one.
32
"Science" is not an appropriate tag for this post. Most of the claims made about "juice cleanses" are pretty laughable.
(Rebuild your telomeres and clear junk out of your cells? Seriously?)
(Rebuild your telomeres and clear junk out of your cells? Seriously?)
33
@31, I've always got the impression that the only science fact WIll is sure of is that an ethernet jack is a little bit different from a phone jack.
34
@30, I don't think there are a lot of people in the Seattle area that spend less than $1,800/year on food. People living outside of Seattle, maybe.
An 'average' household in Seattle spends about $7k/year on food, or roughly $2,800/person in an average household size of 2.5 people.
http://www.bls.gov/ro9/cexseat.htm
I apologize for using the word 'normal' rather than 'average'.
An 'average' household in Seattle spends about $7k/year on food, or roughly $2,800/person in an average household size of 2.5 people.
http://www.bls.gov/ro9/cexseat.htm
I apologize for using the word 'normal' rather than 'average'.
35
@Randoma and @Fnarf -
It seems like you are talking about two different things. Without a distribution curve, it's hard to know what "average" really means. Are there a lot of people living on way, way more food money annually and a lot of people living on very little? Also, what is one's definition of "a lot" or "many?" I could argue that just 100 people in seattle living on <$5/day are many, but you might not agree.
You both make salient points, however. Seattleites as a whole spend a fair amount of money annually on food, and tend to live pretty comfortably. We are a pretty affluent city, as these things go. That said, there's no doubt that there are people who live in this city and have to survive on far, far less money than the "average" person. Regardless, spending $45 a day to effectively eat *less* food, and in the form of juice, to boot, is wasteful and arguably insane.
It seems like you are talking about two different things. Without a distribution curve, it's hard to know what "average" really means. Are there a lot of people living on way, way more food money annually and a lot of people living on very little? Also, what is one's definition of "a lot" or "many?" I could argue that just 100 people in seattle living on <$5/day are many, but you might not agree.
You both make salient points, however. Seattleites as a whole spend a fair amount of money annually on food, and tend to live pretty comfortably. We are a pretty affluent city, as these things go. That said, there's no doubt that there are people who live in this city and have to survive on far, far less money than the "average" person. Regardless, spending $45 a day to effectively eat *less* food, and in the form of juice, to boot, is wasteful and arguably insane.
36
I've done several types of juice fasts before, and the first few days are by far the most difficult. By Day 5, I always feel AMAZING and strong and focused, and have no hunger. So keep with it! Also, the first cleanse I did got me un-addicted to coffee faster, easier, and more effectively than anything else I've ever tried.
37
@35, My point in regards to the $45/day was not about whether or not it is an outlandish amount of money to spend on food, but rather that I don't think Strawberry Moon Juice is charging an outlandish amount for what they are offering. Would I ever pay that much? Not a chance, but I don't think that makes their pricing unreasonable when you consider the ingredients and labor involved.
38
@37 - So that's what trips me up a bit. I could live on Clif bars and Lean Cuisine and get the same "nutrition" as in one of these juice cleanses, obviously without the "cleanse" properties, and spend a shitton less. (By my math, about $15, max [3*$1 for clif bars + 3*$4 for lean cuisine]). Obviously, the calories in the Clif bars and Lean Cuisine are cheap, by the dollar, and probably due to cutting corners somewhere along the way. But what's reasonable? How much labor goes into making a bottle of juice that doesn't go into making 10 bottles? Or 100?
$45/day seems pretty high to me, but then maybe it's because they're paying a living wage, or raising organic fruits and veggies, or . . . I don't know. The economy of this gets too complex for my feeble brain too fast.
What is the right price for this? Are they fleecing their customers? Or being responsible and honest?
$45/day seems pretty high to me, but then maybe it's because they're paying a living wage, or raising organic fruits and veggies, or . . . I don't know. The economy of this gets too complex for my feeble brain too fast.
What is the right price for this? Are they fleecing their customers? Or being responsible and honest?
39
@38, I don't think the Clif Bars and Lean Cuisine is quite a fair comparison. It is sort of like comparing Budweiser ($1/bottle or less) to a hand-brewed, limited production mead ($3-10/bottle).
My take on it, as I explained earlier is that the organic produce would cost me about $20-30 and it takes about an hour of my time per day to process everything. So that gives me a value of $15-25 for my time. If I was making $50 an hour, it would be totally worth it. If I was making $10 an hour it probably wouldn't be.
Whether or not it is a fair price is a completely different question. My family and I run a small farm. We sell pasture-raised pork and poultry. You can buy commercial turkey at QFC for around $1/lb. We sell heritage breed turkey for $6/lb. At first glance that sounds like a total ripoff. However, a heritage breed turkey takes about 3 times as long (9-15 months) to reach slaughter weight compared to a commercial breed. Also, heritage breed turkeys don't have as good a conversion rate as commercial breeds. (It takes more feed to grow 1lb of meat). So, at the end of the day, it costs us roughly $4/lb to offer a turkey carcass. (That price includes chicks (either buying chicks or incubating from eggs), feed, water, and processing costs. It does not include labor costs or capital expenditures (fencing/housing/etc.) At $6/lb if I included labor and capital expenses, we're probably breaking even.
Is our turkey worth $6/lb? Well, it is the best turkey I've ever eaten. My wife hates turkey, but she will actually enjoy eating ours. The meat has a much richer flavor than commercial and I find that it takes smaller portions to be satisfying. It may, or may not, also be more healthy for you. Our poultry live outside, some are completely free ranging, some just hang around the coop - but it is their choice. We don't use prophylactic anti-biotics and we use a high grade feed that doesn't contain any non-plant products. (A lot of feed uses animal parts). Whether or not it is actually worth the price is up to the customer though.
Now, I don't know what the cost to make the juice is, but I'm guessing they're paying $10-15 for the organic produce (for a days worth), another $10-15 in labor and another $10-15 in capital costs. So, best case they have a 50% markup, worst case they're breaking even. Reality is probably somewhere in-between. Either way, unless they have a huge customer base, they're probably not getting rich. (As their customer base grows, their production costs should go down and if there are no competitors driving costs down, maybe they could get rich.... Maybe not.)
More...
My take on it, as I explained earlier is that the organic produce would cost me about $20-30 and it takes about an hour of my time per day to process everything. So that gives me a value of $15-25 for my time. If I was making $50 an hour, it would be totally worth it. If I was making $10 an hour it probably wouldn't be.
Whether or not it is a fair price is a completely different question. My family and I run a small farm. We sell pasture-raised pork and poultry. You can buy commercial turkey at QFC for around $1/lb. We sell heritage breed turkey for $6/lb. At first glance that sounds like a total ripoff. However, a heritage breed turkey takes about 3 times as long (9-15 months) to reach slaughter weight compared to a commercial breed. Also, heritage breed turkeys don't have as good a conversion rate as commercial breeds. (It takes more feed to grow 1lb of meat). So, at the end of the day, it costs us roughly $4/lb to offer a turkey carcass. (That price includes chicks (either buying chicks or incubating from eggs), feed, water, and processing costs. It does not include labor costs or capital expenditures (fencing/housing/etc.) At $6/lb if I included labor and capital expenses, we're probably breaking even.
Is our turkey worth $6/lb? Well, it is the best turkey I've ever eaten. My wife hates turkey, but she will actually enjoy eating ours. The meat has a much richer flavor than commercial and I find that it takes smaller portions to be satisfying. It may, or may not, also be more healthy for you. Our poultry live outside, some are completely free ranging, some just hang around the coop - but it is their choice. We don't use prophylactic anti-biotics and we use a high grade feed that doesn't contain any non-plant products. (A lot of feed uses animal parts). Whether or not it is actually worth the price is up to the customer though.
Now, I don't know what the cost to make the juice is, but I'm guessing they're paying $10-15 for the organic produce (for a days worth), another $10-15 in labor and another $10-15 in capital costs. So, best case they have a 50% markup, worst case they're breaking even. Reality is probably somewhere in-between. Either way, unless they have a huge customer base, they're probably not getting rich. (As their customer base grows, their production costs should go down and if there are no competitors driving costs down, maybe they could get rich.... Maybe not.)
40
A juice cleanse is actually cleansing because you are not using all of your enzymes to digest food. If you think a pound of kale, celery, parsley, and a bit of lemon juice is full of sugar, you just might be a hippie. Have you tried to juice? It is a giant G.D. mess ! Strawberry Moon delivers and cleans it up? I need to sign on the dotted line!
41
Juice cleansing is a good idea. There are so many toxins in the environment these days that a good cleanse is needed to eliminate them from your body.
I would recommend making your own juice since fresh juice is best.
The Master Cleanse is another juice cleanse that you can do at home by making your own juice:
http://themastercleanse.org
I would recommend making your own juice since fresh juice is best.
The Master Cleanse is another juice cleanse that you can do at home by making your own juice:
http://themastercleanse.org
42
@40: What do you think it is that enzymes do? What do you think your pancreas is for? What could it possibly mean to "not use all your enzymes?" That's nonsense.
@Randoma: you completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which was exactly what you were saying: you can get an equal quantity of nutrition for far less, but not necessarily of equal quality, but how much is fucking juice actually worth?
I also highly doubt that the amount of vegetables in a day's worth of juice would cost $10-15, especially not if you're buying direct from a farmer or growing them yourself. And, the amount of effort that would go into grinding up vegetables for one pack of juice is probably about the same amount of effort as needed to make a dozen packs, because I'm sure they're using industrial equipment.
Actually, rather than retread my entire argument, maybe go back and read what I wrote.
@Randoma: you completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which was exactly what you were saying: you can get an equal quantity of nutrition for far less, but not necessarily of equal quality, but how much is fucking juice actually worth?
I also highly doubt that the amount of vegetables in a day's worth of juice would cost $10-15, especially not if you're buying direct from a farmer or growing them yourself. And, the amount of effort that would go into grinding up vegetables for one pack of juice is probably about the same amount of effort as needed to make a dozen packs, because I'm sure they're using industrial equipment.
Actually, rather than retread my entire argument, maybe go back and read what I wrote.
43
@42, My response was mostly to illustrate how I would determine how much the juice is actually worth. I wasn't trying to argue with you - sorry if my tone sounded combative.
If they're using industrial equipment, their capital costs will be higher - basically you're either paying for labor or machinery, either way you have expenses. I'd be pretty surprised if a days worth of organic produce is much less than $10-15 unless you're relying on seconds, which I doubt they are.
But even if their cost is $10/day instead of $30/day, the value to the consumer has to take into consideration what it costs to make it yourself, or what competition there is. Obviously, that value will be different to different people. However, their ability to charge X will go down if the barrier to entry is low. (As in, if it is easy for anyone to make the equivalent juice for $10/day, pretty soon someone will be selling a similar product for $20, assuming there is demand.)
Incidentally, if someone could sell 64oz of 'raw-organic' juice delivered to my house, for $20/day I'd sign up even though $20 is double what it costs me to make 64oz of juice (non-organic), not including travel cost or time.
If they're using industrial equipment, their capital costs will be higher - basically you're either paying for labor or machinery, either way you have expenses. I'd be pretty surprised if a days worth of organic produce is much less than $10-15 unless you're relying on seconds, which I doubt they are.
But even if their cost is $10/day instead of $30/day, the value to the consumer has to take into consideration what it costs to make it yourself, or what competition there is. Obviously, that value will be different to different people. However, their ability to charge X will go down if the barrier to entry is low. (As in, if it is easy for anyone to make the equivalent juice for $10/day, pretty soon someone will be selling a similar product for $20, assuming there is demand.)
Incidentally, if someone could sell 64oz of 'raw-organic' juice delivered to my house, for $20/day I'd sign up even though $20 is double what it costs me to make 64oz of juice (non-organic), not including travel cost or time.
44
#41 Seriously how does juice or fasting "cleanse" toxins from the body? What is the supposed scientific rationale?
I don't doubt that you can feel better by eliminating processed food, breads and meat, increasing fruits and vegetables, increasing fluid intake, and eating less for a few days (or for a lifetime), but I don't think you're eliminating anything from the body other the piss and shit.
I don't doubt that you can feel better by eliminating processed food, breads and meat, increasing fruits and vegetables, increasing fluid intake, and eating less for a few days (or for a lifetime), but I don't think you're eliminating anything from the body other the piss and shit.
45
@20 @22
Fruits and vegetables are full of carbs. ex: In a large apple, there are ~31 carbs. So, in theory, eating or drinking a fruit and veggie diet is the best way to get carbs because they are healthy carbs. I would much rather do my juicing in the morning and get carbs from 6+ different fruits and veggies than eating 1 bagel for nearly 70 carbs and feeling hungry after an hour. Personal preference though :)
Fruits and vegetables are full of carbs. ex: In a large apple, there are ~31 carbs. So, in theory, eating or drinking a fruit and veggie diet is the best way to get carbs because they are healthy carbs. I would much rather do my juicing in the morning and get carbs from 6+ different fruits and veggies than eating 1 bagel for nearly 70 carbs and feeling hungry after an hour. Personal preference though :)
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