Slog
News & ArtsSunday, February 3, 2013
Film White Man Play White Man and White Man Play Indian
Posted by Charles Mudede on Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:17 PM
I hope Tonto marks the beginning of Johnny Depp's downfall...
44
Love the way you combine semi-literate pseudo-intellectualism with ignorance and ass-holeishness, Charles. Don't ever change.
43
@41: Do you think there's some sort of Native American pope that decrees how it's okay for all tribes to feel, or something? Some people are offended, as is their right. Your attempts to minimalize their interests are just poorly thought through.
42
#41: Did you see my links @ 24? The first link has many more links on the Native blogosphere where they're not fine with Johnny Depp playing Tonto or the portrayal of Tonto in the movie in other ways.
41
40, Criticize if it makes you feel better. Native Americans made Depp an honorary tribe member and seem just fine with him playing an Indian. What do they know? Good thing they have you to be outraged for them.
40
@38: "I was stating facts."
"I'm just stating facts" doesn't absolve you of any criticism, it makes you look even more clueless.
"I'm just stating facts" doesn't absolve you of any criticism, it makes you look even more clueless.
39
The only interesting thing Johnny Depp has done in the last twenty years has been playing himself, on an episode of "Life's Too Short", where he hires Warwick Davis to show him what being a dwarf is like.
37
@34: What do an advert and a play have to do with entrenched "token ethnic" stereotypes? Your analogies are terrible.
36
The girlfriend and I went to the open call for extras in Durango last Spring. Didn't get a callback (we were'nt weird looking enough,) but Durango is a nice place. Tons of outdoor activities, a scenic railroad and 4 breweries.
34
The Most Interesting Man in the Dos Equis commercials isn't Latino, and none of the leads in Les Misérables are French.
33
Wow multiple blog posts on slog about a stupid movie from non-aboriginal's being offended for aboriginals...No posts on Slog about the Idle No More movement, including events that have taken place in Seattle. Hey Slog, Line out is showing you up, they actually had a blog post about Idle No More, you know the aboriginal movement by aboriginals themselves to get the issues they care about heard.
32
@26 -- As brave as all of that sounds, natives have far bigger fish to fry than a ridiculous movie that nobody will take seriously in the first place. So if native affairs is your big passion in life, then your outrage is being misplaced.
30
I just wish Johnny Depp would stop being the starry eyed adult with a child's sense of whimsy and be a grown up for once.
29
Isn't he a white man who is playing a white man who played an indian? I was assuming the movie was referencing the old tv show. It would be really weird if Tonto was portrayed by an american indian and I wouldn't think any self-respecting Native American would be interested in that part.
Still, I do wish Johnny would give these kind of roles a rest.
Still, I do wish Johnny would give these kind of roles a rest.
27
It seems reactionary for a culture to be the exclusivity of an ethnicity. How can a Marxist be against cultural appropriation?
26
15, 19,
I'm not sure why it matters what my ethnicity is. In fact, you don't know what my ethnicity is, and I'm not going to mention it here because it's so unimportant.
What matters is the argument itself, the position being taken and the conclusions drawn. The words are what is being debated, not the lips and tongue upon which they were formed. Now if you want to discuss that, I'm interested. But if all you can think about is how to derail the conversation with an ad hominem, then fuck off.
The portrayal of an archetype of First nations people as stupid should offend anybody, regardless of their origin. The portrayal of First Nations people as only acceptable if they play a subservient role is similarly offensive. It points to a larger meme, one in which human beings are defined as superior or inferior based upon traits unrelated to how hard they work or the brilliance of their ideas. It creates artificial divisions and sets us against one another, dividing us so as to keep us from ever uniting and collectively freeing ourselves from the bonds that keep us all down. It's Bacon's Rebellion replayed over and over and over again. And I think it's time we all stand up for one another.
We are all in this world together. If we stand up for one another, we as a species are made stronger thereby. Everyone benefits when bigotry and intolerance can find no toehold in our society. We are one big union, and an injury to one is an injury to all.
I'm not sure why it matters what my ethnicity is. In fact, you don't know what my ethnicity is, and I'm not going to mention it here because it's so unimportant.
What matters is the argument itself, the position being taken and the conclusions drawn. The words are what is being debated, not the lips and tongue upon which they were formed. Now if you want to discuss that, I'm interested. But if all you can think about is how to derail the conversation with an ad hominem, then fuck off.
The portrayal of an archetype of First nations people as stupid should offend anybody, regardless of their origin. The portrayal of First Nations people as only acceptable if they play a subservient role is similarly offensive. It points to a larger meme, one in which human beings are defined as superior or inferior based upon traits unrelated to how hard they work or the brilliance of their ideas. It creates artificial divisions and sets us against one another, dividing us so as to keep us from ever uniting and collectively freeing ourselves from the bonds that keep us all down. It's Bacon's Rebellion replayed over and over and over again. And I think it's time we all stand up for one another.
We are all in this world together. If we stand up for one another, we as a species are made stronger thereby. Everyone benefits when bigotry and intolerance can find no toehold in our society. We are one big union, and an injury to one is an injury to all.
25
Also @many, stop assuming everyone is white. I'm not white, Charles isn't white, 1/3 of the City of Seattle isn't white, and probably a larger percentage of The Stranger readers aren't white.
24
#19: Of course Native people and other minorities care about their representation in the media, and that the few major film roles that minorities can possibly be cast in are being taken by white actors. White people are the ones who don't care (and also the ones responsible for it - surprise!).
This keeps happening, especially with Native, Asian, and Middle Eastern roles. See Mickey Rourke as "Genghis Khan" coming up.
See below for Native people certainly caring:
http://nativeappropriations.com/2012/03/…
http://www.racialicious.com/2012/05/02/j…
This keeps happening, especially with Native, Asian, and Middle Eastern roles. See Mickey Rourke as "Genghis Khan" coming up.
See below for Native people certainly caring:
http://nativeappropriations.com/2012/03/…
http://www.racialicious.com/2012/05/02/j…
23
wait, wait, you expected cultural authenticity and racial justice from The Lone Ranger?
How do you justify your stupidity to yourself?
How do you justify your stupidity to yourself?
22
Just wait until Charles hears that Brian Austin Green will play Othello in the next big screen adaptation.
21
Fortunately, the future of the Western is definitely going to be influenced more by Django Unchained than whatever bullshit Lone Ranger thing they're doing here.
20
@15: Of course, because good actors never sell tickets to movies, or appear in popular films.
@9: Exactly. I don't give a shit who's playing the role, the fact that this movie got made is what sucks.
@9: Exactly. I don't give a shit who's playing the role, the fact that this movie got made is what sucks.
19
Bunch of non-native people getting offended on behalf of actual native people, who don't actually care about shit like this because they have way bigger problems? Check.
18
The trailer was cringe-worthy. If it helps, the get-up the very caucasian (no Native ancestry whatsoever) is from a white painter named Kirby Sattler "The Crow". Sattler, like 100s of other shitty artists, are fascinated by the combination of romantic savagery.
The biggest save for Depp is even the Indian ladies love him and so will also say "I hear he has ancestry" just like #1. I mean if it is in Wiki, then it must be true! (squeal blink blink)
The biggest save for Depp is even the Indian ladies love him and so will also say "I hear he has ancestry" just like #1. I mean if it is in Wiki, then it must be true! (squeal blink blink)
17
Thanks to #9. Didn't know what Tonto meant. Wow. Learn something new everyday. I love Depp and am sorry to see him take such a role, but I assume he may not be looking at the big picture.
16
not that white people are less than you know. heck, some of my closest and dearest freinds are white. It's just a fact, Seattle is a WHITE city that confuses Left politics with actual diversity. Nothing wrong with it, i mean, like White People are just like ordinary people....Chuck M. is a fine writer, by the way.
15
THERE's people that think shit like matters? Seattle is whitey white white white....so Seattle's idea of diversity is for whitey whites to argue about fucking Tonto in some Johnny Depp (King of the Multiplex, lest some think he's a great actor or something). Whiety white whites....
14
Can't wait to see Charles' reaction to the white guy talking like a rasta man in the VW commercial.
13
@9: without weighing in either way (I'm still thinking) I'll point out that the Spanish 'tonto' also means 'dumb' in the sense of 'mute' as the original Tonto was rather taciturn.
11
10,
Well, I'm not really "fighting" over our portrayal in the media. A fight would imply some sort of boycott or a demand for action of some kind. All I'm doing is writing something in the comments section of Slog. Now, you can call that a number of things, from flaming to trolling to whatever, but it's hardly a fight. Fights involve expending real effort to effect change of some kind in a struggle against an organized and powerful opponent. This requires only slightly more effort than jacking off to porn.
And as for your portrayal in the media, let the media portray anybody however it likes. I like having a free, unfettered and somewhat wild media. That doesn't mean that I think that some of the crap the media produces is above criticism, or that I should just shut up and not call a piece of shit what it is.
And the Lone Ranger serials are just that, a piece of shit. I've stated why i think this is so, and I'm sticking to that position. If you think it's art instead, we can have a rational discussion on the matter. I don;t think you'll change my mind, but whatever, I'm bored of porn.
Well, I'm not really "fighting" over our portrayal in the media. A fight would imply some sort of boycott or a demand for action of some kind. All I'm doing is writing something in the comments section of Slog. Now, you can call that a number of things, from flaming to trolling to whatever, but it's hardly a fight. Fights involve expending real effort to effect change of some kind in a struggle against an organized and powerful opponent. This requires only slightly more effort than jacking off to porn.
And as for your portrayal in the media, let the media portray anybody however it likes. I like having a free, unfettered and somewhat wild media. That doesn't mean that I think that some of the crap the media produces is above criticism, or that I should just shut up and not call a piece of shit what it is.
And the Lone Ranger serials are just that, a piece of shit. I've stated why i think this is so, and I'm sticking to that position. If you think it's art instead, we can have a rational discussion on the matter. I don;t think you'll change my mind, but whatever, I'm bored of porn.
10
If y'all fought for fair treatment for us as much as you fight over our portrayal in the media I think we'd be getting somewhere.
Where's my popcorn? This is going to get great.
Where's my popcorn? This is going to get great.
9
The word "tonto" in Spanish translates to English as "stupid".
Now, think about the character of Tonto as portrayed in the Lone Ranger serials. The "good Indian" is the one who is subservient to the "White hero". the "bad Indians" are the ones who fight back.
I don't care about Johnny Depp's ethnicity or tribal affiliation. I really wouldn't care if the role was being played by Kathy Griffin in drag. I cringe at the fact that its being played by anybody at all.
It kind of reminds me of the old cartoons now known as "The Censored Eleven".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censored_El…
or the Disney film "Song of the South"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the…
I'm not calling for any official censorship here, so you Right-wing conspiracy nuts can just shut the fuck up. Nobody is suggesting that the government do anything or take a stand of any kind. I am suggesting that this role is in poor taste, and the producers would have done better by the American public if they had not chosen to release this film out of respect for First Nations peoples.
And as for everyone who screams "political correctness" every time someone suggests that something might be inappropriate, fuck you. The word we used to sue in place of "politically correct" was "polite". And no, it's not an infringement on your rights if someone like me comes along and states that politeness is a good thing.
Now, think about the character of Tonto as portrayed in the Lone Ranger serials. The "good Indian" is the one who is subservient to the "White hero". the "bad Indians" are the ones who fight back.
I don't care about Johnny Depp's ethnicity or tribal affiliation. I really wouldn't care if the role was being played by Kathy Griffin in drag. I cringe at the fact that its being played by anybody at all.
It kind of reminds me of the old cartoons now known as "The Censored Eleven".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censored_El…
or the Disney film "Song of the South"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the…
I'm not calling for any official censorship here, so you Right-wing conspiracy nuts can just shut the fuck up. Nobody is suggesting that the government do anything or take a stand of any kind. I am suggesting that this role is in poor taste, and the producers would have done better by the American public if they had not chosen to release this film out of respect for First Nations peoples.
And as for everyone who screams "political correctness" every time someone suggests that something might be inappropriate, fuck you. The word we used to sue in place of "politically correct" was "polite". And no, it's not an infringement on your rights if someone like me comes along and states that politeness is a good thing.
7
Was that Denzel Washington that once played Richard III?? I hope his career goes in the toilet for that. Not.
Fuck you, Chuck.
Fuck you, Chuck.
5
I'm sorry Charles. I've sorta had a crush on Johnny Depp since the mid 1980s. It's a longstanding crush that won't be diminished by one bad/tasteless role.
Sure, they could have cast an actual indian to play Tonto, but then the movie would have sold about 3 tickets nation-wide. Hammer doesn't have the star power to sell tickets on his name alone. This movie only got made because Depp really, really wanted to do it. And it will only sell tickets because he's in it.
If it's any consolation, it looks like a pretty dumb movie, even from the trailers.
Sure, they could have cast an actual indian to play Tonto, but then the movie would have sold about 3 tickets nation-wide. Hammer doesn't have the star power to sell tickets on his name alone. This movie only got made because Depp really, really wanted to do it. And it will only sell tickets because he's in it.
If it's any consolation, it looks like a pretty dumb movie, even from the trailers.
4
Black man from shitty third world country come to US and bitch like woman. Suck our collective cocks, Tonderai. Go home and become an extra in a Christian Children's Fund commercial as you were destined. Then you'll have something to bitch about.
2
He was at our fair: http://www.nativetimes.com/life/people/7…
LaDonna Harris -- you'll know her name since you're an expert on Native affairs, Chuck -- adopted him into the tribe: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/entertainment/…
Ignore that "New Mexico-based tribe" thing because LOL.
LaDonna Harris -- you'll know her name since you're an expert on Native affairs, Chuck -- adopted him into the tribe: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/entertainment/…
Ignore that "New Mexico-based tribe" thing because LOL.
1
"In a 2002 interview, Depp stated that he has Native American ancestry; in 2011, he specified, 'I guess I have some Native American [in me] somewhere down the line. My great-grandmother was quite a bit of Native American, she grew up Cherokee or maybe Creek Indian. Makes sense in terms of coming from Kentucky, which is rife with Cherokee and Creek.'" - via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Depp
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