Slog
News & ArtsSunday, February 3, 2013
Guns The Deadliest Sniper in the Army's History Gunned Down by a Civilian
Posted by Charles Mudede on Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:29 AM
CNN:
Former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, author of the best-selling autobiography "American Sniper," was one of two people killed Saturday at a gun range, authorities said.
The 38-year-old, who declared himself the "most lethal sniper in U.S. history," was killed along with 35-year-old Chad Littlefield on Saturday afternoon in Glen Rose, Texas, southwest of Fort Worth, the Texas Department of Public Safety said.
Police arrested suspect Eddie Ray Routh, 25, after a brief pursuit. He is facing two counts of capital murder, the department said.
Routh's family members could not be reached immediately for comment.
If only he had a gun to defend the liberties his freedom-loving forefathers inked.
As for you, Obama...
When President Obama mentioned last week that he had picked up a new hobby — skeet shooting at Camp David — it was a surprising disclosure by a president whose main identification with guns these days is his effort to ban assault rifles and high-capacity magazines.
...no one is buying it, and there's no need to sell it.
The Obama thing was a tip from Lark.
2
This says more about our lack of mental health care for veterans than it does about guns.
As for Obama, that looks like that's the first time he's ever shot a gun in his life. Nope. Nobody's buying it.
As for Obama, that looks like that's the first time he's ever shot a gun in his life. Nope. Nobody's buying it.
3
@2
What's your idea of sufficient mental health care? Locking veterans with PTSD in cages so they can't visit a shooting range on the weekend? Do you want mental health IDs issued to every American so they can screen you at the gun club gates?
Are you for locking people up? Or tagging and tracking them everywhere they go? Or what? The NRA won't tell anybody what their mental health plan looks like?
What's your idea of sufficient mental health care? Locking veterans with PTSD in cages so they can't visit a shooting range on the weekend? Do you want mental health IDs issued to every American so they can screen you at the gun club gates?
Are you for locking people up? Or tagging and tracking them everywhere they go? Or what? The NRA won't tell anybody what their mental health plan looks like?
4
@ 3. Damn dude, you got all questions and no answers.... bet that is because you never hear the voice of reason when someone responds to your BS...;-%.._
7
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn posted a NYT link below reporting that the shooter who killed the sniper is a PTSD-suffering vet, so he's a civilian the way the sniper was.
And to follow up on the comment @6, don't most vets talk about their "service" and their "missions" instead of proudly proclaiming how they killed their enemies?
And to follow up on the comment @6, don't most vets talk about their "service" and their "missions" instead of proudly proclaiming how they killed their enemies?
8
So the deadliest sniper in the US was shot in a place full of guns. Wow, perhaps guns don't make us safer! Or do you disagree Nancy?
9
Didn't the skeet shooting stuff come up not because Obama was boasting, but because some reporter had asked if he'd ever shot a gun? So he answered the question, and then the Republicans stepped right into it. They're being labeled as "skeeters"--skeet-shooting truthers.
10
Look. Obama was asked a question, and he answered it. This fact seems wholly uncontroversial to any normal person. And it certainly didn't come across as anyone "selling" anything. It was a simple response to a simple question. What's your problem?
11
Killing an average of more than one man a month might make anyone sort of crazy
Helping a PTSD vet shoot more guns is an example of this craziness.
Congrats dude, You ended one with a period.
Helping a PTSD vet shoot more guns is an example of this craziness.
Congrats dude, You ended one with a period.
12
When I was in college, back between the wars, I was involved in a collegiate organization called the ACUI - Association of College Unions International. It was mostly about student union programming and activities (union in the sense of the building with the snack bar and bowling alley) but it also had a skeet shooting component which sponsored competitions and such. I used to try my hand at it from time to time. It was meh - I preferred floating down the river in an inner tube with a styrofoam cooler full of beer.
If the President wants to skeet shoot, let him skeet shot. He has a hard job.
If the President wants to skeet shoot, let him skeet shot. He has a hard job.
13
@8 Of course guns are dangerous, but the blind us-vs-them rhetoric espoused on the Slog is dangerous as well, and not just for America, but for the liberal base. We need an honest conversation about guns, not name calling, dick wiggling, and political white-washing. People like Goldy have been bringing the worst out in people, and are just as guilty of pig-headed ignorance as NRA buffons like LaPierre.
14
@12 Better he do that than play video games, imo.
But I get it now. Obama faked the Newtown massacre so that he could get gun control to the front burner in order to lure a reporter into asking him if he'd ever shot a gun before so that he could put out that photograph that his mother took of him with a gun as he was growing up in Kenya plotting a Soviet takeover of the best health care system in the world--America's. He's a wily one, that Obama.
But I get it now. Obama faked the Newtown massacre so that he could get gun control to the front burner in order to lure a reporter into asking him if he'd ever shot a gun before so that he could put out that photograph that his mother took of him with a gun as he was growing up in Kenya plotting a Soviet takeover of the best health care system in the world--America's. He's a wily one, that Obama.
15
and I'm aware this particular post was made my Charles. I think Goldy got told to knock it off after the stupid Brazilian Fire debacle last week.
16
@13
Tell the NRA we need an "honest conversation"--you know, that group that gets legislation passed prohibiting government organizations from even addressing gun deaths. But you're pretty much as full of shit as the NRA is.
Tell the NRA we need an "honest conversation"--you know, that group that gets legislation passed prohibiting government organizations from even addressing gun deaths. But you're pretty much as full of shit as the NRA is.
19
Nancy @13
So all this gun violence is my fault? And if somebody gets angry at what I've been writing and, you know, shoots me, I've been asking for it, right, so I'm just as much to blame?
Nancy @15
Dream on.
People like Goldy have been bringing the worst out in people, and are just as guilty of pig-headed ignorance as NRA buffons like LaPierre.
So all this gun violence is my fault? And if somebody gets angry at what I've been writing and, you know, shoots me, I've been asking for it, right, so I'm just as much to blame?
Nancy @15
I think Goldy got told to knock it off after the stupid Brazilian Fire debacle last week.
Dream on.
20
@1
Why do you think this is only about the proposed gun control laws? If you please sir, may we point out a dumb decision without it having to be about a bill in congress?
Can't we also have a conversation about whether or not it's a good idea to sleep with five guns under your blanket, and give your kids a gun for their third birthday? Can we talk about whether or not it's a good idea to play with guns morning, noon and night? Or whether it's a good idea for troubled vets to spend even more time with more guns?
It's always "you can't talk about this" and "you can't talk about that" with you people. "Don't dare say what you think or you'll hurt a gun lover's feelings!"
Why the fuck do we have to get permission from the gun lovers to say what we think?
Why do you think this is only about the proposed gun control laws? If you please sir, may we point out a dumb decision without it having to be about a bill in congress?
Can't we also have a conversation about whether or not it's a good idea to sleep with five guns under your blanket, and give your kids a gun for their third birthday? Can we talk about whether or not it's a good idea to play with guns morning, noon and night? Or whether it's a good idea for troubled vets to spend even more time with more guns?
It's always "you can't talk about this" and "you can't talk about that" with you people. "Don't dare say what you think or you'll hurt a gun lover's feelings!"
Why the fuck do we have to get permission from the gun lovers to say what we think?
21
Kyle was sociopathic from jump. If you read his words about his motivation you will see this. He used his special training to justify HIS OWN need to kill. Super control issues, sense of "ultimate judge", volunteer to follow orders to kill and be proud of his ability. Yes, some adjustment problems there. BTW, I am a VN vet and former VA counselor working with substance abuse and PTSD. Suicide and homicide comes to those who dream of killing other men; whether good dreams or bad, dream of killing and death comes..sad.
22
@19
"So all this gun violence is my fault?"
Do you have a degree in journalism?
Or even any courses in English?
Because that does not seem to be any rational interpretation of that statement.
"And if somebody gets angry at what I've been writing and, you know, shoots me, I've been asking for it, right, so I'm just as much to blame?"
Seriously, have you taken any journalism courses?
Because, again, that does not seem to be any rational interpretation of that statement.
"So all this gun violence is my fault?"
Do you have a degree in journalism?
Or even any courses in English?
Because that does not seem to be any rational interpretation of that statement.
"And if somebody gets angry at what I've been writing and, you know, shoots me, I've been asking for it, right, so I'm just as much to blame?"
Seriously, have you taken any journalism courses?
Because, again, that does not seem to be any rational interpretation of that statement.
23
Goldy's always been a worthless piece of shit in search of a cause to go on braying about. And now he's found a perpetual one since firearms aren't going anywhere. Luckily, he had zero job offers to turn down before venturing out into the lonely wilderness of Stranger "journalism", taken seriously by none but the freaks.
24
@22 Goldy's interpretation of that statement wasn't entirely out of line. That was a ridiculous statement. LaPierre and Goldy aren't even in the same league when it comes to escalating division and paranoia. And Goldy doesn't have nearly LaPierre's influence.
25
@24
Goldy was accused of "pig-headed ignorance".
Goldy decided that "pig-headed ignorance" meant "gun violence" was his "fault".
So Goldy's response was "entirely out of line".
Not helping resolve a situation is NOT the same as causing the situation.
Goldy was accused of "pig-headed ignorance".
Goldy decided that "pig-headed ignorance" meant "gun violence" was his "fault".
So Goldy's response was "entirely out of line".
Not helping resolve a situation is NOT the same as causing the situation.
26
@25 "Not helping resolve a situation is NOT the same as causing the situation."
When will people stop ignoring the dependent clause?: "People like Goldy have been bringing the worst out in people".
When will people stop ignoring the dependent clause?: "People like Goldy have been bringing the worst out in people".
28
why can't you "liberals" stop "dick wiggling" about gun violence? start "conversing honestly" about guns - and by that i mean stop talking about them.
30
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/South…
More successful news from the gun buy back!
I guess the thugs in south Seattle couldn't make it!
More successful news from the gun buy back!
I guess the thugs in south Seattle couldn't make it!
33
@29 No. I'm saying that making statements about someone "bringing the worst out in people" in the context of an argument about gun violence and putting that person on par with those who are perpetuating gun violence is not a huge leap from claiming that someone is part of the perpetuation of gun violence.
34
@32 A quick look at your own comment history really should put that question right out of your head.
35
Good Afternoon Charles,
Thanks.
Chris Kyle RIP. A tragedy to be sure but I'm not so sure he had it all together. It appears for him he should have never owned a weapon/firearm after service. Too late now. Condolences to his friends and family.
Thanks.
Chris Kyle RIP. A tragedy to be sure but I'm not so sure he had it all together. It appears for him he should have never owned a weapon/firearm after service. Too late now. Condolences to his friends and family.
37
@33
"... putting that person on par with those who are perpetuating gun violence is not a huge leap from claiming that someone is part of the perpetuation of gun violence."
Except that the "putting that person on par with" was in regards to "pig-headed ignorance".
Whereas Goldy decided that it meant that he (Goldy) was responsible for the "gun violence".
Which you seem to agree with.
So that means that Goldy's "pig-headed ignorance" which does not help resolve the situation IS the same as causing the situation in the first place.
"... putting that person on par with those who are perpetuating gun violence is not a huge leap from claiming that someone is part of the perpetuation of gun violence."
Except that the "putting that person on par with" was in regards to "pig-headed ignorance".
Whereas Goldy decided that it meant that he (Goldy) was responsible for the "gun violence".
Which you seem to agree with.
So that means that Goldy's "pig-headed ignorance" which does not help resolve the situation IS the same as causing the situation in the first place.
38
Not a civilian.
The shooter was a reservist and former marine who had served in Afghanistan and Iraq.
NPR has more.
The shooter was a reservist and former marine who had served in Afghanistan and Iraq.
NPR has more.
39
@37 Once again, you're being disingenuous by not dealing with the entire statement. As a whole. You can't ignore some parts of a statement just because it's more convenient to do so. Or are you a member of the NRA?
41
Hey Staff, its been a while since you've provided a good example of your affinity for satanic cock. You have a real opportunity here by showing your support for the DHS surveillance cameras currently being installed along the waterfront with the stated purpose of curbing crime. Get up on it ya'll.
42
@39
"Once again, you're being disingenuous by not dealing with the entire statement. As a whole."
The statement, as a whole, specifies "pig-headed ignorance" as the aspect which is equal between those two.
You (and Goldy) want to ignore that specificity so you can claim that other aspects that were not stated were implied.
"Once again, you're being disingenuous by not dealing with the entire statement. As a whole."
The statement, as a whole, specifies "pig-headed ignorance" as the aspect which is equal between those two.
You (and Goldy) want to ignore that specificity so you can claim that other aspects that were not stated were implied.
43
@42 Actually, you're right; the two are not exactly "on par" in this statement. If we're going to get all strictly semantical, it could easily be interpreted that Goldy is WORSE than LaPierre here because there was no similar statement made about LaPierre's "bringing the worst out in people".
44
@43
Keep in mind that, according to previous posts, fairly.unbalanced doesn't speak English fluently. So there's not much point in getting too deep into parsing the language with him.
Keep in mind that, according to previous posts, fairly.unbalanced doesn't speak English fluently. So there's not much point in getting too deep into parsing the language with him.
45
Trololololol
Chaz, 8/10
Goldy 10/10
Also, I'm saddened that this conversation barely touched on the matters that need to be continued: PTSD treatment.
And, yeah anon troll, I think that maybe a shooting range isn't the best place for a soldier with PTSD. And especially not with a gun with live ammo.
Chaz, 8/10
Goldy 10/10
Also, I'm saddened that this conversation barely touched on the matters that need to be continued: PTSD treatment.
And, yeah anon troll, I think that maybe a shooting range isn't the best place for a soldier with PTSD. And especially not with a gun with live ammo.
46
The solution is obvious: gun ranges need armed guards to insure gun enthusiasts are safe from bad guys with guns.
I won't consider whether armed guards need to be protected with armed guards because my head hurts now.
I won't consider whether armed guards need to be protected with armed guards because my head hurts now.
47
@43
"If we're going to get all strictly semantical, it could easily be interpreted that Goldy is WORSE than LaPierre ..."
Maybe so.
And yet that still does not support Goldy's position that that post claims that "gun violence" is his (Goldy's) "fault".
"If we're going to get all strictly semantical, it could easily be interpreted that Goldy is WORSE than LaPierre ..."
Maybe so.
And yet that still does not support Goldy's position that that post claims that "gun violence" is his (Goldy's) "fault".
48
@47 Well, then you absolve LaPierre as well. Because if Goldy is worse than LaPierre in the context of a gun violence discussion, and if Goldy doesn't get any blame for gun violence, then surely neither does LaPierre. I disagree.
The only point for which I think Goldy deserves criticism is the use of the word "all". Just like when Obama said "all the time" in relation to his skeet shooting. It's a word that "all" of us use "all" too often. And those who are hyperfocused on criticism are bound to jump on that usage. Which is to say that, if you yourself had taken "any courses in English", you would have known to rest your argument on that "all" alone.
The only point for which I think Goldy deserves criticism is the use of the word "all". Just like when Obama said "all the time" in relation to his skeet shooting. It's a word that "all" of us use "all" too often. And those who are hyperfocused on criticism are bound to jump on that usage. Which is to say that, if you yourself had taken "any courses in English", you would have known to rest your argument on that "all" alone.
49
@48
"Well, then you absolve LaPierre as well. Because if Goldy is worse than LaPierre in the context of a gun violence discussion, ..."
Except that now you are inserting "in the context of a gun violence discussion".
You have not established that yet.
Merely that the implication may be that Goldy is "worse" than LaPierre because LaPierre is not also described as "bringing the worst out in people".
And even that interpretation requires that any other characteristic or trait be ignored (or non-existent).
And that STILL does not support Goldy's position that that post claims that "gun violence" is his (Goldy's) "fault".
But I do think that you are doing an excellent job of proving what "NancyBalls" posted to be true.
"Well, then you absolve LaPierre as well. Because if Goldy is worse than LaPierre in the context of a gun violence discussion, ..."
Except that now you are inserting "in the context of a gun violence discussion".
You have not established that yet.
Merely that the implication may be that Goldy is "worse" than LaPierre because LaPierre is not also described as "bringing the worst out in people".
And even that interpretation requires that any other characteristic or trait be ignored (or non-existent).
And that STILL does not support Goldy's position that that post claims that "gun violence" is his (Goldy's) "fault".
But I do think that you are doing an excellent job of proving what "NancyBalls" posted to be true.
51
38, i used civilian deliberately. he was no longer active, right? that makes you a civilian, right? i could be wrong.
52
@51
You used it correctly, Charles.
Usually, the difference is whether you fall under the UCMJ or civilian laws.
There is some ambiguity about military contractors in a war zone and such.
But in this instance your usage was correct.
You used it correctly, Charles.
Usually, the difference is whether you fall under the UCMJ or civilian laws.
There is some ambiguity about military contractors in a war zone and such.
But in this instance your usage was correct.
53
@51
Since had served, most people would say Veteran to signify while he wasn't presently serving he has served in the past and has received the training. Although, the Army so far has been reluctant to release his deployment records, in the past its been because the individual with PTSD hadn't actually seen combat, or it becomes a debate about how much combat he had seen.
An old Army buddy of mine suffered that fate, he had a flashback under the influence of alcohol and killed two fellow soldiers. His entire trial became a debate over whether he had seen enough to have "PTSD"
Since had served, most people would say Veteran to signify while he wasn't presently serving he has served in the past and has received the training. Although, the Army so far has been reluctant to release his deployment records, in the past its been because the individual with PTSD hadn't actually seen combat, or it becomes a debate about how much combat he had seen.
An old Army buddy of mine suffered that fate, he had a flashback under the influence of alcohol and killed two fellow soldiers. His entire trial became a debate over whether he had seen enough to have "PTSD"
54
I support Obama's gun habit because the more guns that he holds and we can get pictures of the funnier this will be in the span of history. I want more poorly photoshopped pictures of Obama shooting 9/11. So worth it.
55
None of the gun control laws would have prevented this, but the murder control law is going to help bring justice to the perpetrator.
56
I have a framed and signed picture of Joe Biden and Barack Obama shooting down spaceships from Pluto.
Murricah!
Murricah!
58
Somehow responding to a question with "I skeeter shoot all the time" is controversial to Rightwingers while the shooting down of 20 children in Newtown isn't.
Please! If Righties would put as much energy into coming up with sensible gun control to address incidents like Newtown, instead of spending energy trying to gin up non-scandals, they'd be better off.
Please! If Righties would put as much energy into coming up with sensible gun control to address incidents like Newtown, instead of spending energy trying to gin up non-scandals, they'd be better off.
61
Holy Living Fuck, the gun nuts can shit up a thread quickly and thoroughly. I say this as the owner of multiple guns, not all of which are for hunting.
Am I correct in remembering that some of the most unhinged here are not even gun owners?
Am I correct in remembering that some of the most unhinged here are not even gun owners?
62
@61
On the SLOG, if you own a gun then you are a gun nut.
For me, it's been a pleasure being vilified on these threads.
On the SLOG, if you own a gun then you are a gun nut.
For me, it's been a pleasure being vilified on these threads.
63
Let us hope this "Smash! Smash! SMASH!" episode isn't a formative experience for Kai, lest he goes on to become a Brunnen-G Divine Assassin.
64
"Do we need armed guards at shooting ranges?" - quote of the day, by Mike Malloy
I think the skeet shooting mention by Obama / photo release by white house, whether he's truly a regular skeet shooter or not, may be a hilarious little ploy to waste the time and energy of these right wingers suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome). White house strategists could be thinking, shit, if any Obama hater out there is looking for something to attack him for it might as well be something that makes them look ridiculous and crazier to the masses, so bait them with whatever will lead them there. I think white house waited 2 years to release his more detailed birth certificate for the same reason. To allow these idiots to hang themselves with their own rope while a long-term corporatist/progressive (the irony) Obama agenda is quietly on the move.
If you were in a long footrace with someone else, through valleys and mountains, woods and plains, wouldn't you hope your opponent would get tripped up into going the wrong way on their way to the finish line (end goal)?
If that sounds strange it's because I just toked.. but this is what I suspect is going on. Keep these teabaggers front and center every now and then, to make their party look crazy
I also think the ODS folks are so wrapped up in their fear, hatred, and ODS and happen to believe so strongly that they are the true standard Americans, this country's heart and soul (self righteous) that they can't see how out-there they seem to the rest of us. Is it clear by now that ODS is why the entire republican party is in trouble? People rarely make good decisions when they're totally freaked out with fear and hatred
I think the skeet shooting mention by Obama / photo release by white house, whether he's truly a regular skeet shooter or not, may be a hilarious little ploy to waste the time and energy of these right wingers suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome). White house strategists could be thinking, shit, if any Obama hater out there is looking for something to attack him for it might as well be something that makes them look ridiculous and crazier to the masses, so bait them with whatever will lead them there. I think white house waited 2 years to release his more detailed birth certificate for the same reason. To allow these idiots to hang themselves with their own rope while a long-term corporatist/progressive (the irony) Obama agenda is quietly on the move.
If you were in a long footrace with someone else, through valleys and mountains, woods and plains, wouldn't you hope your opponent would get tripped up into going the wrong way on their way to the finish line (end goal)?
If that sounds strange it's because I just toked.. but this is what I suspect is going on. Keep these teabaggers front and center every now and then, to make their party look crazy
I also think the ODS folks are so wrapped up in their fear, hatred, and ODS and happen to believe so strongly that they are the true standard Americans, this country's heart and soul (self righteous) that they can't see how out-there they seem to the rest of us. Is it clear by now that ODS is why the entire republican party is in trouble? People rarely make good decisions when they're totally freaked out with fear and hatred
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