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News & ArtsTuesday, January 22, 2013
Visual Art / The Ladies / Games / Nerd Snuh and Chastity Talk Feminism in World of Warcraft
Posted by Jen Graves on Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 8:56 AM
- A screen grab.
Hyperallergic has a story from yesterday about a researcher smuggling discussions of feminism into WoW. Videos are at World of Warcraft Explains Feminism.
Has Slog already discussed gender and Minecraft? Is there even gender in Minecraft?
14
As someone who's played MMO's almost since the genre was created this is very commonplace. It doesn't make it right, but if you were to rate the number of homophobic rants in alliances I doubt too many alliances would get a clean bill of privilege. It's something that's bothered me about my new alliance. The butt talk. The 'I'm dominating you with butt sechs' over and over and over again and it's just not even entertaining at a certain point. The leader told me that the reason for the second amendment is tyrannical governments and we should all get rocket launchers but what the fuck do I care, there's very little that would get me to physically stop playing with this team, and there's very little I would do to change the way they are. They'll just talk about all the things they want to put in my butt, cause nothing says hetrosexual power like fucking a guy in the ass. What?
13
@10/11,
I don't doubt that she got harassed, and that her harassment was terrible and vitriolic. I also harbor no doubts that she received donations to her project in sympathy for that harassment. That said, 'donate to me because misogynists are being assholes to me' wasn't the subject of her kickstarter. 'Donate so that I can make these specifically-planned videos' was, and those donating out of sympathy misunderstand the function of the Kickstarter system.
People with anonymity are assholes because they're powerless in their own lives and take out their self-loathing on other, minority parties in an uncontrolled environment. This is why shops get burned in riots, this is why hundreds are raped in every war that has ever been or ever will be. It isn't anything so intellectually involved as a conscious hate of women (or of gays or Jews or Kurds any other persecuted group that tends to get their ass kicked every time a war blows through) – it is the powerless, self-hating mob given a moment of unregulated power exercising that power over the defenseless. It is the tragic flaw of humanity as a species, as a whole.
Oh, and one final note: If I were intentionally lying, that would not make me a misogynist. It would make me intellectually dishonest, but would not indicate that I hate women. This is one of the major issues that keeps people away from a reasoned discussion of feminism (though it works just as well against a reasoned discussion of race relations with the term 'racist') – if a person runs the risk of being labeled a misogynist for a variety of unrelated rhetorical offenses, many of those who would otherwise contribute meaningfully to the discussion will simply steer clear of what's presumed to be an unreasonable counter-arguer. Such labels are a net detriment to the discussion as a whole.
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I don't doubt that she got harassed, and that her harassment was terrible and vitriolic. I also harbor no doubts that she received donations to her project in sympathy for that harassment. That said, 'donate to me because misogynists are being assholes to me' wasn't the subject of her kickstarter. 'Donate so that I can make these specifically-planned videos' was, and those donating out of sympathy misunderstand the function of the Kickstarter system.
People with anonymity are assholes because they're powerless in their own lives and take out their self-loathing on other, minority parties in an uncontrolled environment. This is why shops get burned in riots, this is why hundreds are raped in every war that has ever been or ever will be. It isn't anything so intellectually involved as a conscious hate of women (or of gays or Jews or Kurds any other persecuted group that tends to get their ass kicked every time a war blows through) – it is the powerless, self-hating mob given a moment of unregulated power exercising that power over the defenseless. It is the tragic flaw of humanity as a species, as a whole.
Oh, and one final note: If I were intentionally lying, that would not make me a misogynist. It would make me intellectually dishonest, but would not indicate that I hate women. This is one of the major issues that keeps people away from a reasoned discussion of feminism (though it works just as well against a reasoned discussion of race relations with the term 'racist') – if a person runs the risk of being labeled a misogynist for a variety of unrelated rhetorical offenses, many of those who would otherwise contribute meaningfully to the discussion will simply steer clear of what's presumed to be an unreasonable counter-arguer. Such labels are a net detriment to the discussion as a whole.
12
@10: I don't think anyone here is claiming that any vitriol or threats of physical violence are at all reasonable. A reasonable expectation of accountability should be viewed as distinct from the malicious harassment that has been leveled at her, especially when she takes up the banner for women who experience online (or offline) hostility and harassment.
When I expressed doubt as to the use of funds in a previous comment thread on this subject, I was chided by those who (correctly) pointed out that all she owes anyone is what she promises on her kickstarter page. Now she's above criticism for thus far failing to meet those goals?
When I expressed doubt as to the use of funds in a previous comment thread on this subject, I was chided by those who (correctly) pointed out that all she owes anyone is what she promises on her kickstarter page. Now she's above criticism for thus far failing to meet those goals?
11
@9,
Additionally, one of the reasons she got so much money in the first place was due to the backlash. People saw the abuse being heaped on her and threw money in as a show of support for *her* specifically. Your argument that the abuse was a result of the money not being used is flat-out incorrect. And, if you're intentionally lying, yes, that does make you a misogynist.
Additionally, one of the reasons she got so much money in the first place was due to the backlash. People saw the abuse being heaped on her and threw money in as a show of support for *her* specifically. Your argument that the abuse was a result of the money not being used is flat-out incorrect. And, if you're intentionally lying, yes, that does make you a misogynist.
10
@9,
She got a bunch of harassment for proposing the project, period, most notably from the guy who posted a video of punching her in the face because she had the unmitigated gall of not personally responding to his harassing emails.
And I find it impossible to believe that no other Kickstarter projects take a long time to complete, don't get completed according to the original specifications (take a look at The Canyons article in The New York Times for evidence of that), or don't get completed at all. Do those other Kickstarter projects see the same level of vitriol or threats of physical violence?
She got a bunch of harassment for proposing the project, period, most notably from the guy who posted a video of punching her in the face because she had the unmitigated gall of not personally responding to his harassing emails.
And I find it impossible to believe that no other Kickstarter projects take a long time to complete, don't get completed according to the original specifications (take a look at The Canyons article in The New York Times for evidence of that), or don't get completed at all. Do those other Kickstarter projects see the same level of vitriol or threats of physical violence?
9
@4 As I recall, she got a bunch of harassment for getting a bunch of cash, then NOT making the videos or really posting any status updates about the project. Yes, there were the usual loud misogynist assholes in the crowd (As you'll get with any anonymous gathering, from CoD voice chat to citywide riot, see also John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/0…) but there were also a lot of people in the crowd who had simply seen their kickstarter money disappear and nothing come out of it.
There's a fairly well-thought-out criticism posted :
http://missmauslovesmuffins2.blogspot.co…
This was written back in June, when she hadn't begun to make the videos yet. It's now been seven more months and we've yet to see a single substantive result of all those donations from the Kickstarter project.
It seems, at least to me, that Sarkeesian has become the story, rather than her work. This is not to say that misogyny isn't a problem in gaming – it's a terrible problem. However, when I see people like Snuh and Chastity putting together in a few weeks on zero budget a thoughtful discussion on feminism, where Sarkeesian has failed to produce a single of her promised videos in almost a year with thousands of dollars of donations, I wonder.
Does this make my a misogynist?
There's a fairly well-thought-out criticism posted :
http://missmauslovesmuffins2.blogspot.co…
This was written back in June, when she hadn't begun to make the videos yet. It's now been seven more months and we've yet to see a single substantive result of all those donations from the Kickstarter project.
It seems, at least to me, that Sarkeesian has become the story, rather than her work. This is not to say that misogyny isn't a problem in gaming – it's a terrible problem. However, when I see people like Snuh and Chastity putting together in a few weeks on zero budget a thoughtful discussion on feminism, where Sarkeesian has failed to produce a single of her promised videos in almost a year with thousands of dollars of donations, I wonder.
Does this make my a misogynist?
8
@4: As of early December, she has made no real progress besides buying around 300 games (research phase, as she says), and is now asking her backers to submit ideas/do research, which seems pretty damn presumptive to me.
Seems to me she bit off way more than she could chew, or found the research not as engaging or rewarding as she thought. Always seemed to me too simplistic and general an idea to really do much scholarly work on, especially when I saw those 300 games she bought. A narrow focus is often best when doing academic work.
I am unaware of Kickstarter's "refund" policy, but she is going to have to start producing something soon, or people are going to wonder why they threw a couple hundred thousand dollars at someone who, for whatever reason, is not doing the work.
Seems to me she bit off way more than she could chew, or found the research not as engaging or rewarding as she thought. Always seemed to me too simplistic and general an idea to really do much scholarly work on, especially when I saw those 300 games she bought. A narrow focus is often best when doing academic work.
I am unaware of Kickstarter's "refund" policy, but she is going to have to start producing something soon, or people are going to wonder why they threw a couple hundred thousand dollars at someone who, for whatever reason, is not doing the work.
7
Her initial goal was to do 5, but with the extra funding she's going to do 11 videos.
The latest project update is her with a big stack of games that she'd bought for the project, and this:
I wasn't a backer; by the time I found out about it, she'd already collected over $100k. I was under the impression that they were going to be the standard fare for this type of video: ~10-15 minutes long, mostly consisting of game footage with narration. I guess when she raised $150,000, she decided to do a lot more? I guess I don't see how covering the Damsel in Distress game trope in an entertaining and educational way would require a whole lot more than that. She seems to have shifted gears into mostly focusing on the awful harassment that she experienced when the project first came out. The entirely unfair harassment and hostility that was directed towards her is certainly a topic that's worth talking about, but she seems to keep missing the deadlines she sets for herself. It's been six months since the first video was supposed to be released, according to her kickstarter page.
The latest project update is her with a big stack of games that she'd bought for the project, and this:
Obviously each video in this series requires a tremendous amount of research, writing and production time so we are planning to release one video per month. We anticipate the launch of our first Tropes vs Women video in late fall or early winter and we’ll be kicking off the series with the Damsel in Distress trope!"
I wasn't a backer; by the time I found out about it, she'd already collected over $100k. I was under the impression that they were going to be the standard fare for this type of video: ~10-15 minutes long, mostly consisting of game footage with narration. I guess when she raised $150,000, she decided to do a lot more? I guess I don't see how covering the Damsel in Distress game trope in an entertaining and educational way would require a whole lot more than that. She seems to have shifted gears into mostly focusing on the awful harassment that she experienced when the project first came out. The entirely unfair harassment and hostility that was directed towards her is certainly a topic that's worth talking about, but she seems to keep missing the deadlines she sets for herself. It's been six months since the first video was supposed to be released, according to her kickstarter page.
5
@4 It takes a while to create some documentaries. (I think they funded to the point that she is doing a series of 6 or 7)
If you donated, you can see all the progress updates that she has listed since starting the kickstarter here
Otherwise you just wait until she releases the actual movies and you'll surely hear about it from the shitstorm that is unleashed.
If you donated, you can see all the progress updates that she has listed since starting the kickstarter here
Otherwise you just wait until she releases the actual movies and you'll surely hear about it from the shitstorm that is unleashed.
4
Speaking of feminism and women in gaming, what ever happened to that project by Anita Sarkeesian where she got all that ridiculous harassment for wanting to do a series of videos, then raised a bunch of cash? I can't find any updates about it.
3
Feminism is nothing more than disguised self-misogyny. There is no point in even discussing the subject until women stop hating themselves.
1
They did replace that distinctly male 'ugh' noise your character made when injured to a more gender-neutral bone-cracking sound.
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