Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, January 15, 2013
Olympia Rep. Haler Files Bill Requring Teens to Open a Bank Account Before Applying for Learner's Permit
Posted by Goldy on Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:27 PM
Among the dozens of proposed bills filed ahead of the new legislative session is HB 1041, Representative Larry Haler's (R-Richland) poorly thought out measure requiring that applicants provide "proof of Washington residency" before being issued a driver's license, learner's permit, or state identity card. From the bill:
(7)(a) An applicant must provide evidence of a valid principal Washington residence address with an original, notarized, or certified copy of any of the following:
(i) A utility bill;
(ii) A bank statement;
(iii) A paycheck;
(iv) A government check; or
(v) Other government document with a valid Washington residence address.
(b) The department must, to the extent possible, authenticate the address presented by the applicant.
Um, how many 15-year-olds have a utility bill, paycheck, government check or other government document mailed to them? So essentially, this bill requires that teens open a bank account before applying for a learner's permit. Weird. I'm guessing this isn't really the intent of this added piece of government red tape, but then, I'm not really sure what public good Representative Haler hopes to achieve from this.
Oh, and by the way, on his official home page, Representative Haler lists one of his top legislative goals as: "Removing excessive government regulations." Funny.
34
He is definitely an idiot, but the people he represents are worse idiots and this is the time (first week of the session) that legislators drop bills that pay off those worse idiots for voting for them. Then they can go back to futzing about the evil gummint.
33
After spending a week in Puerto Vallarta with my son, 19, who was able to go out clubbing and drinking in a safe downtown and then take a low cost taxi back to the resort, I now believe that:
Drinking Age, 18
Voting Age, 21
Driving Age, 25
(Age of marriage for males should also be 27 or greater..but that is another comment, in another thread!)
Drinking Age, 18
Voting Age, 21
Driving Age, 25
(Age of marriage for males should also be 27 or greater..but that is another comment, in another thread!)
32
@28 Read on. The bill amends two different statutes. The second, the one controlling permits, specifically references section 7 of the first.
31
Except for the notarization, Oregon does this. Always has, as far as I know, tho I don't think you can use a P.O. box at the UPS Store anymore. Of course, in Oregon you can get a driver's license and license plates at the same office...
28
I think you're all reading it wrong. Section 1 states:
"5 Sec. 1. RCW 46.20.035 and 2008 c 267 s 8 are each amended to read
6 as follows:
7 The department may not issue an identicard or a Washington state
8 driver's license that is valid for identification purposes unless the
9 applicant meets the identification requirements of subsections (1),
10 (2), or (3) and (7) of this section."
With the way the punctuation is laid out, I think that you have to meet the requirements in subsection (1), or subsection (2), or both subsections (3) AND (7). If you meet the requirements in subsections (1) or (2), subsection (7) is irrelevant.
At least that's the way I'm reading it. If I'm wrong, I agree with all of the other posters that this was written very poorly. But I think the way I'm seeing it is the way it was intended. Pulling subsection (7) out of the whole law is an example of misleading reporting.
"5 Sec. 1. RCW 46.20.035 and 2008 c 267 s 8 are each amended to read
6 as follows:
7 The department may not issue an identicard or a Washington state
8 driver's license that is valid for identification purposes unless the
9 applicant meets the identification requirements of subsections (1),
10 (2), or (3) and (7) of this section."
With the way the punctuation is laid out, I think that you have to meet the requirements in subsection (1), or subsection (2), or both subsections (3) AND (7). If you meet the requirements in subsections (1) or (2), subsection (7) is irrelevant.
At least that's the way I'm reading it. If I'm wrong, I agree with all of the other posters that this was written very poorly. But I think the way I'm seeing it is the way it was intended. Pulling subsection (7) out of the whole law is an example of misleading reporting.
27
I had this problem when trying to get an EDL. I only had one piece of proof (Voter Registration Card) instead of the two required for the EDL. So they said I could change my address on my drivers license, which would then count as the second piece of proof... insane.
26
@23: Looking at a certificate indicating that one is authorized by the state to operate motor vehicles on public roads is a bone-headed way of determining voter eligibility. If we need proof of residency in our pockets, then let's issue residency cards to residents.
24
@23,
But they're not. I've never had to show my driver's license to vote in this state. Have you? If you have, I recommend contacting a civil rights attorney.
But they're not. I've never had to show my driver's license to vote in this state. Have you? If you have, I recommend contacting a civil rights attorney.
23
@21 that gets sticky if a driver's license can be used to validate/authenticate one as a Washington State voter.
22
Do we know that Haler wrote this bill himself? My understanding is most legislation is written by lobbyist groups who then hand it to a Rep along with a "campaign donation" or other inducement.
Given his district, party, and target, I'd wager that this is a anti-immigrant bill that he introduced on behalf of a dimwitted Tea Party type of group.
Given his district, party, and target, I'd wager that this is a anti-immigrant bill that he introduced on behalf of a dimwitted Tea Party type of group.
21
@7: No, it's not a trick question. I didn't ask you what the law is, I asked you for more detail about your expressed opinion of it. Again: Why do you think one should reside in Washington in order to be licensed by the state to operate motor vehicles on our public roads? I think we should license anyone who proves qualified and pays the fee to drive on our roads.
20
@ 14, I was more interested in your bringing up how you brought in a utility bill for your first WA license. Because if you were an adult living on your own, your experience doesn't really have any bearing on the matter.
Anyway, the point wasn't as much as "what does the law change" (although I believe it means that the parent won't be able to vouch for the child anymore) as much as "how stupid is it to require these things of minors." When I register my daughters at school, I show my utility bill but I have nothing to really show that they live with my wife and I. They're names aren't on the bill. I have their birth certificates, social security cards and immunization records, but they could still be living with their grandparents across town for all they know, or with out of state relatives. Sure, they have savings accounts, but it's silly to require everyone to have one. What if my family was chronically indigent? What if we were in the dreaded Checks system? How would that affect the girls' ability to open accounts? Or would we be subject to additional fees and the like thanks to our helplessness in the face of this requirement?
It's like Goldy says. It's a poorly thought out bill, a knee-jerk thing to show his constituents that he's keeping illegals in check, creating the very red tape he claims to fight and inconveniencing Washingtonians who don't need the hassle.
Anyway, the point wasn't as much as "what does the law change" (although I believe it means that the parent won't be able to vouch for the child anymore) as much as "how stupid is it to require these things of minors." When I register my daughters at school, I show my utility bill but I have nothing to really show that they live with my wife and I. They're names aren't on the bill. I have their birth certificates, social security cards and immunization records, but they could still be living with their grandparents across town for all they know, or with out of state relatives. Sure, they have savings accounts, but it's silly to require everyone to have one. What if my family was chronically indigent? What if we were in the dreaded Checks system? How would that affect the girls' ability to open accounts? Or would we be subject to additional fees and the like thanks to our helplessness in the face of this requirement?
It's like Goldy says. It's a poorly thought out bill, a knee-jerk thing to show his constituents that he's keeping illegals in check, creating the very red tape he claims to fight and inconveniencing Washingtonians who don't need the hassle.
19
My daughter got her first state ID card around age 6. And an Enhanced ID (passport replacement for N America) around age 11. She was supposed to have a paycheck first?
17
I have to say that I don't remember what documentation I had to show to get a driver's lisence the first time, because that was 40 years ago.
I know for a fact, though, that I didn't have a utility bill, a paycheck, or a government check.
My guess is that my mother went with me and signed a statement verifying that I lived with her at her address. Having a parent or guardian vouch for an address seemed (and still seems) perfectly reasonable to me, but that option is not allowed in this proposed bill.
I know for a fact, though, that I didn't have a utility bill, a paycheck, or a government check.
My guess is that my mother went with me and signed a statement verifying that I lived with her at her address. Having a parent or guardian vouch for an address seemed (and still seems) perfectly reasonable to me, but that option is not allowed in this proposed bill.
16
@14 Well, I took my daughter to get her permit a couple weeks ago, and no proof of residence was required for her. She provided her Social Security number and used her passport as ID, and I showed my driver's license in vouching for her as her parent. But she didn't put my address on the form, she put her mother's, and that's where her permit was sent.
The way this bill is written, she would have had to additionally show proof of residence as per paragraph 7. A parent can vouch for the child's ID, but there's no provision for vouching for their residence.
Haler just didn't think this through.
The way this bill is written, she would have had to additionally show proof of residence as per paragraph 7. A parent can vouch for the child's ID, but there's no provision for vouching for their residence.
Haler just didn't think this through.
15
I recommend a VoIP phone account. They're $10 a month, count as a utility, and they'll print any address you want on your bill. Of course, I'm not sure how the state can really verify your address - are we sending DOL workers house to house knocking on doors now?
14
@13: No, but the question still stands - what is this this law changing? Has it removed special provisions for minors, or simply reduced the number of options for establishing residency?
Seems like an important info if we're to understand exactly we're griping about, here.
Seems like an important info if we're to understand exactly we're griping about, here.
12
Of course, he's an idiot too.
Washington State Law already requires those documents if you lack (or don't want to give) a Social Security # to get a license:
Silly GOP legislator, doesn't even know the law he's seeking to change!
More...
Washington State Law already requires those documents if you lack (or don't want to give) a Social Security # to get a license:
2. Social Security number
You must provide your Social Security number to get a driver license.
If you don’t have a Social Security number, you may sign a declaration form and provide proof of Washington residence.
If you’re applying for a Commercial Driver License (CDL), you must provide your Social Security number. We can’t issue you a CDL if you don’t have one.
Proof of Washington residence
If you don’t have a Social Security number:
1) Bring as many of the following documents as possible to be reviewed as proof of your Washington residence address:
Home utility bill (gas, electric, water, garbage, land-line telephone, or ISTA. etc).
Not acceptable: Cable, internet or satellite TV bills.
A college or university document that has your current residential address on file.
Off-campus students: Bring the printout from the SEVIS database which:
Is in a sealed envelope with the college return address.
Has your address
Has proof it was printed by the “Designated School Official” or “Responsible Officer.”
WA Department of Corrections (DOC) electronic ID Letter that has your current residential address.
Selective Service card with your current residential address.
Vehicle title (not a Quick Title with a tamper proof tape over the VIN and Title number).
Bank-issued documents, for the last 30 days which include your current residential address, such as:
Account statement
Credit card statement
Mortgage statement
Note: Your documents must include your name and current Washington residential address. It’s illegal to present fraudulent documents. If we find that your documents are fraudulent, you won’t be able to reapply for 364 days.
When you apply, you’ll get a handout with instructions for completing the application process.
Within 2 weeks, we’ll send you a letter and form to request an appointment with us to review your documents.
Complete the form and send it back to us by mail or fax following the instructions on the form.
We’ll call you to schedule an appointment, and meet with you to verify your proof of Washington residence.
After we verify your Washington residence address, we’ll issue your driver license, photo instruction permit, or ID card.
Silly GOP legislator, doesn't even know the law he's seeking to change!
11
After my wife mistakenly throw away the $140 my son had managed to saved up during his 8 years in this world (he had wrapped it in paper that looked like garbage), both my kids now have bank accounts.
9
How is this different from current law? I recall having to show proof of residency (think I brought in a utility bill) back in 1992 to get my WA state driver's license.
7
@5: Sorry, is this a trick question? Cuuuuz typically you need to be a resident to get a license and insurance, and at least here in MA you need both of those to operate a vehicle. And rightly so.
6
He's from Richland. He's afraid "illegals" will get drivers licenses and steal all our good-paying Amer'kin pizza delivery jobs, dontchaknow!
5
@3: Why do you think one should reside in Washington in order to be licensed by the state to operate motor vehicles on our public roads?
4
My guess is it's about republicans' unwarranted fears of widespread voter fraud. They want people to "prove" they're not illegal immigrants.
3
But I thought we wanted to register and license people using dangerous machinery? Seems like a good idea to me. Unless there's a difference between requiring proof of residency for a gun license - which you should have to do - and for a driver's license - which you should also have to do.
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