Slog
News & ArtsThursday, January 10, 2013
Crime / Guns Two Reportedly Shot at California High School
Posted by Cienna Madrid on Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:54 AM
Via Reuters:
Gunfire erupted on Thursday at a California high school in inland Kern County, a sheriff's department dispatcher said, and media reports indicated two people had been shot and the assailant arrested.
The dispatcher confirmed the shooting at Taft Union High School but gave no other details.
31
@28
"I'm saying that gun regulation advocates (and everyone else) mostly ignore the major problem of handgun availability, and instead decide how best to get rid of "assault weapons," which account for a small, small minority of gun violence in the US."
I'll go further and say that the people who want to ban "assault weapons" are NOT interested in the specifics of who is shooting whom with what and why.
Because if they had the facts then the solution might NOT be to ban guns.
And the fact that 99 point whatever percent of guns and gun owners are NOT involved in gun violence shows that they are wrong.
"I'm saying that gun regulation advocates (and everyone else) mostly ignore the major problem of handgun availability, and instead decide how best to get rid of "assault weapons," which account for a small, small minority of gun violence in the US."
I'll go further and say that the people who want to ban "assault weapons" are NOT interested in the specifics of who is shooting whom with what and why.
Because if they had the facts then the solution might NOT be to ban guns.
And the fact that 99 point whatever percent of guns and gun owners are NOT involved in gun violence shows that they are wrong.
30
@27,
I am not a fan of the NRA. And 5280 and I definitely don't agree on everything gun related. I'm actually in favor of heavier gun regulations (regulations, but not bans) and more scrutiny, education, and accountability.
But the posts here, as well as many of the comments, are little more than angry rants that sound like the liberal version of Glenn Beck. There's no point in trying to have any real discussion or conversation, because too many people are going to believe what they want, regardless of any evidence to the contrary (on both sides).
One thing I do believe though, is that being angry at guns and angry at gun owners isn't going to do shit to stop gun violence. No more than being angry at drugs will stop drug use or being angry at abortion will stop abortions or being angry at gays will stop them from being gay. And that's what a lot of the anti-gun rants here sound exactly like... the extreme right wingers who rail against drugs or gays or abortion. They're not doing themselves any favors.
I am not a fan of the NRA. And 5280 and I definitely don't agree on everything gun related. I'm actually in favor of heavier gun regulations (regulations, but not bans) and more scrutiny, education, and accountability.
But the posts here, as well as many of the comments, are little more than angry rants that sound like the liberal version of Glenn Beck. There's no point in trying to have any real discussion or conversation, because too many people are going to believe what they want, regardless of any evidence to the contrary (on both sides).
One thing I do believe though, is that being angry at guns and angry at gun owners isn't going to do shit to stop gun violence. No more than being angry at drugs will stop drug use or being angry at abortion will stop abortions or being angry at gays will stop them from being gay. And that's what a lot of the anti-gun rants here sound exactly like... the extreme right wingers who rail against drugs or gays or abortion. They're not doing themselves any favors.
28
@27: This has nothing to do with the NRA. I'm saying that gun regulation advocates (and everyone else) mostly ignore the major problem of handgun availability, and instead decide how best to get rid of "assault weapons," which account for a small, small minority of gun violence in the US. The number of people murdered at Newtown? About that many people are murdered _every day_ with handguns in the US. Yet the national dialog is still all about regulating "assault weapons," as though that's going to solve the bulk of the problem. Indeed, banning assault weapons is listed in the top three priorities of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which you just linked to. Nothing is listed about targeting handguns specifically.
I used a recent local example of a notable murder by a reasonably well-known asshole that went totally unreported by The Stranger to illustrate that they don't care. I maintain that it's an effective example.
I used a recent local example of a notable murder by a reasonably well-known asshole that went totally unreported by The Stranger to illustrate that they don't care. I maintain that it's an effective example.
27
@13 and 5280 and Ugurtha: please, just stop wanking each other and the NRA for 2 seconds. Who says that gun-regulation advocates don't care about urban violence? I presume you are all staunch supporters of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, like me, right?
26
What we need are more guns with less restrictions to protect us from the tyranny of school shootings. Let freedom ring!
25
@23
"Stranger staffers are by and large opportunistic hypocrites. But that's their job, so I don't hold it against them too much."
I do.
It's fine if they want to wallow in grief porn. It seems that a lot of the people posting here also want that.
But if Goldy and the others are going to be pushing their advocacy journalism then they should be doing it correctly.
Report on ALL the shootings in Seattle.
Right now they'll skip a local shooting if the shooter and victim were both brown and over 18.
At least until they want to use the sanitized statistics of X people shot in year Y.
"Stranger staffers are by and large opportunistic hypocrites. But that's their job, so I don't hold it against them too much."
I do.
It's fine if they want to wallow in grief porn. It seems that a lot of the people posting here also want that.
But if Goldy and the others are going to be pushing their advocacy journalism then they should be doing it correctly.
Report on ALL the shootings in Seattle.
Right now they'll skip a local shooting if the shooter and victim were both brown and over 18.
At least until they want to use the sanitized statistics of X people shot in year Y.
24
Urgutha, quit making so much sense. You know they only want to hear things that affirm what they already think.
23
You guys know perfectly well why school shootings get massive attention but typical gangland shootings don't.
Same with "missing white girl" phenomenon.
When they print "innocent schoolchildren murdered," readers get worked up and emotional, more page views are generated, and more ad revenue is received. That doesn't happen when they run a story about thugs doing what thugs always do.
Stranger staffers are by and large opportunistic hypocrites. But that's their job, so I don't hold it against them too much.
Same with "missing white girl" phenomenon.
When they print "innocent schoolchildren murdered," readers get worked up and emotional, more page views are generated, and more ad revenue is received. That doesn't happen when they run a story about thugs doing what thugs always do.
Stranger staffers are by and large opportunistic hypocrites. But that's their job, so I don't hold it against them too much.
22
doceb, I am with you on this point. The common factor of this Taft High School shooting and the Munchbar shooting is that some underage turd figured discharging a weapon where many innocent people were was a good way to solve whatever problem was going on in his head. The Stranger should not dismiss the Munchbar shooting, just because it took place in Bellevue. Ja'Mari Jones was a Seattle teenage male with a gun.
21
@20:
1. Not in Bellevue Square, they don't.
2. Slog reports on nightclub incidents all the time.
3. The suspect was a locally notable thug who had previously killed one of Seattle's well-known personalities.
My only point is that we shouldn't be super-quick to say "gun nuts want to ignore this" without applying the same standards across the board.
1. Not in Bellevue Square, they don't.
2. Slog reports on nightclub incidents all the time.
3. The suspect was a locally notable thug who had previously killed one of Seattle's well-known personalities.
My only point is that we shouldn't be super-quick to say "gun nuts want to ignore this" without applying the same standards across the board.
20
@18 People have been getting shot & stabbed in nightclubs since Cain's Copacabana opened. It's not news.
16
From a recent article:
A teacher who "engaged" the gunman in conversation after the shooting suffered minor injuries when he was grazed by a pellet from the shotgun, according to the Kern County Sheriff's Department. The teacher, joined by a school counselor, convinced the student to drop the 12-gauge shotgun, said Kern County Sheriff Don Youngblood.
Hmmm, nothing about bringing a Bushmaster out from the facilities closet for neutralization. Must be bothersome to gun nuts to know that conversation led the 16 yo male student to put the gun down after shooting one of his targets, and missing another, and hitting a teacher instead, and not a high-powered weapon in a room.
A teacher who "engaged" the gunman in conversation after the shooting suffered minor injuries when he was grazed by a pellet from the shotgun, according to the Kern County Sheriff's Department. The teacher, joined by a school counselor, convinced the student to drop the 12-gauge shotgun, said Kern County Sheriff Don Youngblood.
Hmmm, nothing about bringing a Bushmaster out from the facilities closet for neutralization. Must be bothersome to gun nuts to know that conversation led the 16 yo male student to put the gun down after shooting one of his targets, and missing another, and hitting a teacher instead, and not a high-powered weapon in a room.
15
@10 yes, but normally, without extensive practice, it takes about 3 minutes.
Most gun nuts are lazy.
Most gun nuts are lazy.
13
@3: Not just gun nuts. The Slog writers are also perfectly willing to ignore brown people shooting each other in our own backyard. Ja'Mari Jones (one of the Tuba Man killers) killed a man and wounded another in a busy Bellevue club, was on the run for two weeks, and was caught, all without a peep about it on this site, not even in the morning news roundups. I hate to side with the trolls, but seriously, what the heck is up with that? Did I miss an article about it or something?
12
@5 instead of quibbling about particular incidents, or technical details, let's focus on what the broad facts are that you wish for us to ignore:
THE WITH GOOD GUN CONTROLS HAVE LESS DEATHS BY GUNFURE THAN WE DO, AND ALL OUR GUNS MAKE US LESS SAFE, NOT MORE SAFE.
Also: we have NOT achieved more liberty through private guns in America; the NRA did not lead the civil rights movement nor oppose the patriot act.
We can't even say how you'd use a gun for safety, when an intruder enters the bedroom, if your gun is locked up.
All laws should have broad clauses ("any material omision is also a securities fraud") and should not rely on narrow technical details, no law is perfect, no law solves any problem 100%.
Finally, America's gun violence problem is largely caused by our gun nuts who prevent us from doing what works so well in canada or australia, where, btw, there are still millions of guns -- they just control them better. Control. Not eliminate. But yes eliminate the higher power weaponry, just like we ban @5 from owning his own tank, nuclear weapon, mustard gas, dynamite, and automatic machine gun, etc.
THE WITH GOOD GUN CONTROLS HAVE LESS DEATHS BY GUNFURE THAN WE DO, AND ALL OUR GUNS MAKE US LESS SAFE, NOT MORE SAFE.
Also: we have NOT achieved more liberty through private guns in America; the NRA did not lead the civil rights movement nor oppose the patriot act.
We can't even say how you'd use a gun for safety, when an intruder enters the bedroom, if your gun is locked up.
All laws should have broad clauses ("any material omision is also a securities fraud") and should not rely on narrow technical details, no law is perfect, no law solves any problem 100%.
Finally, America's gun violence problem is largely caused by our gun nuts who prevent us from doing what works so well in canada or australia, where, btw, there are still millions of guns -- they just control them better. Control. Not eliminate. But yes eliminate the higher power weaponry, just like we ban @5 from owning his own tank, nuclear weapon, mustard gas, dynamite, and automatic machine gun, etc.
11
Whoa, Taft. That's about as remote a city as you can get in central CA. It's a little old oil town. I know nothing about the incident, just thinking out loud that Taft must be a very odd place to grow up.
10
Will,
A good, experienced black powder shooter can reload in less than a minute. Not that much difference, admittedly, but let's give them a little bit of credit.
A good, experienced black powder shooter can reload in less than a minute. Not that much difference, admittedly, but let's give them a little bit of credit.
8
Guns don't kill people.
The ammunition in the guns, sprayed in massive amounts and designed to kill people, kills the people.
Mind you, if we had flintlock rifles and pistols, it would take 3 minutes to reload after each shot ...
The ammunition in the guns, sprayed in massive amounts and designed to kill people, kills the people.
Mind you, if we had flintlock rifles and pistols, it would take 3 minutes to reload after each shot ...
7
Knowing absolutely nothing about this incident, I am going out on a limb and guessing the shooter was a white male who managed to get hold of a legally registered firearm. Go ahead and troll me if I'm wrong.
6
@5
It could be your "point" is inane. Everyone is talking about broad solutions to a complex problem, and you keep harping on isolated data points as if each existed only in isolation.
I know it's not just you. The gun lobby broadcasts these talking points to their proxies famous and anonymous across the country, and you all bleat them tirelessly.
You don't care that you're losing ground and that's why you can't change.
It could be your "point" is inane. Everyone is talking about broad solutions to a complex problem, and you keep harping on isolated data points as if each existed only in isolation.
I know it's not just you. The gun lobby broadcasts these talking points to their proxies famous and anonymous across the country, and you all bleat them tirelessly.
You don't care that you're losing ground and that's why you can't change.
5
@3
You have that backwards.
How much money do you want to bet that the gun used in that shooting had a bayonet lug?
Because I'm pretty sure that you will find out that it did not.
Which is the point that the "gun nuts" here have been making over and over and over but which never seems to get through the bias of certain people.
You have that backwards.
How much money do you want to bet that the gun used in that shooting had a bayonet lug?
Because I'm pretty sure that you will find out that it did not.
Which is the point that the "gun nuts" here have been making over and over and over but which never seems to get through the bias of certain people.
4
4 dead in 1 incident is the FBI threshold for a mass killing. so remember, don't try and make any conclusions about the need for greater control of firearms out of this.
3
Oh, but since it probably involved either drugs or brown people (or both), no worries. At least, according to Slog's resident gun nuts.
2
Taft High School has an armed deputy patrolling the premises. Initial reports are saying shooter is a student (surprise, surprise bullets & puberty are a winning combo, no?)
1
Let me guess: male shooter, prescribed antidepressants but either withdrawing from them or not taking them at all.
I sure would like to see the reasoned arguments linking public education to gummint tyranny. Isn't that why Americans carry guns, to fight gummint tyranny when they're not consenting to being groped by useless window dressing uniformed clowns at the airport?
I sure would like to see the reasoned arguments linking public education to gummint tyranny. Isn't that why Americans carry guns, to fight gummint tyranny when they're not consenting to being groped by useless window dressing uniformed clowns at the airport?
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