Slog
News & ArtsThursday, January 10, 2013
??!! / Teh Internets Duff McKagan's Tips for "How to Be a Man"
Posted by Megan Seling on Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:49 PM
Every Thursday former Guns 'n' Roses bassist and current Loaded lead singer Duff McKagan writes a column for Seattle Week's music blog, Reverb. In this week's installment, McKagan tells readers "How to Be a Man," and I just... I don't even know where to start.
Tips include "Don't be a pussy," "Do the dishes," "Save it for your girl," and "Learn how to fight."
And! He tells you what to do when you're tired of hearing that chick of yours blab on and on (emphasis mine):
We men sometimes get frustrated when our ladies talk. We will try to actually converse when she is deep into a story about the boss being a dick, or some other friend of hers doing your girl wrong. Do not even try to fix this situation! Your sweety just wants you to listen. Hell, you don't even have to agree. Just listen. This is black-belt-level man stuff.
Mark Driscoll couldn't have said it better himself!
If you need a laugh (or a sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach brought on by the fear that humanity hasn't evolved nearly as much as you once believed) read the whole thing here.
45
You kinda get the feeling that Mister G doesn't like women too much. Not as a dude who's into cocks, but as closest rapist with simmering resentment against half of the world.
44
You kind of get the feeling that maybe Megan doesn't like men too much. Not as in lesbian, but as in spinster.
43
@34: You're not wrong. ;)
@40: It is not a misunderstanding to think that pussy commonly refers to female genitalia. Language evolves. Currently, that is a common use of the word. Words can mean more than one thing, or they can mean one thing at one point in time and another at another point in time. Saying "'pussy' is not actually slang for 'vagina'" is utter nonsense.
@40: It is not a misunderstanding to think that pussy commonly refers to female genitalia. Language evolves. Currently, that is a common use of the word. Words can mean more than one thing, or they can mean one thing at one point in time and another at another point in time. Saying "'pussy' is not actually slang for 'vagina'" is utter nonsense.
42
Let me be just about the 42nd person to chime in and say that yeah, the dressing on this may be a little off-putting at times, but the actual message is really decent and humanizing, and is light years above the discourse on gender and relationships that Driscoll's troglodyte ass would spout.
tl;dr: ease up, Megan.
tl;dr: ease up, Megan.
41
mcjulie @ 30: i'm not a dude either. (i am a 30s married feminist with kids of both genders, for the record).
duff is kindof a bro-dude himself, but i wholeheartedly agree with those above who suggest that he's using the language he's using here to reach the people who need the message most.
he's a good guy. this post is manufactured drama.
duff is kindof a bro-dude himself, but i wholeheartedly agree with those above who suggest that he's using the language he's using here to reach the people who need the message most.
he's a good guy. this post is manufactured drama.
40
"Pussy", is not actually slang for "vagina", it is an old piece of slang that refers to a "pussy cat" or a "scaredy cat", meaning a skittish feline animal, a fucking cat. That is where the word comes from, it was never about genitalia. Thinking it so is just a misunderstanding of the term.
I didn't read it, but the long quote, albeit corny, is sound advice. It took me many years to learn that the women I dated just wanted me to listen and empathize when they were upset. It is sound advice.
I didn't read it, but the long quote, albeit corny, is sound advice. It took me many years to learn that the women I dated just wanted me to listen and empathize when they were upset. It is sound advice.
37
I'm not a dude. I'm a married lady. His points were fine. It wasn't nearly as terrible as an article called "How To Be A Man" should have been.
Interestingly, I think we're getting to the point where "how to be a man" ceases to be relevant and "how to be a person who interacts with other people" ascends to the throne. Remove the gendered language, and this is half decent start.
Interestingly, I think we're getting to the point where "how to be a man" ceases to be relevant and "how to be a person who interacts with other people" ascends to the throne. Remove the gendered language, and this is half decent start.
36
I'll echo everyone else: that article wasn't full of troglodyte "bro" stuff, it was some good advice written in a way that will actually get through to troglodyte bros. Sometimes you have to use bro-speak to get through to some guys, but over all the advice he gave was commendable.
Unfortunately, since it's in the Seattle Weekly no one's going to see it anyway.
Unfortunately, since it's in the Seattle Weekly no one's going to see it anyway.
33
@30 You're assuming wrong, at least in my case. Frankly, I think the person who came off poorly here is Megan, who *completely* fed into the "feminists fly off the handle at every little thing" stereotype. And I say this as a proud feminist.
I increasingly think Duff's post is in some ways smarter than advice I would write. I wouldn't use phrases like "don't be a pussy," but perhaps writing in language that is accepted by the people who most need to hear the meat of what he is saying is exactly the right approach. More PC language might not get through. It's like feeding a kid a vegetable-filled candy bar instead of a bowl filled to the brim with vegetables.
I increasingly think Duff's post is in some ways smarter than advice I would write. I wouldn't use phrases like "don't be a pussy," but perhaps writing in language that is accepted by the people who most need to hear the meat of what he is saying is exactly the right approach. More PC language might not get through. It's like feeding a kid a vegetable-filled candy bar instead of a bowl filled to the brim with vegetables.
32
Don't see how Duff's "How to be a Man" crap is any worse than the typical Mudede post. "A real man doesn't cry...", etc.
31
@30 News flash. Everyone likes to be listened to, and heard. There's some dynamic between men and women where communications can go awry. Too often, I think women think that because of the ingrained stoic thing, men don't have anything to say, so they fill the conversational space themselves. You might be surprised if you treated your partner like you were more interested in what he was thinking about than in talking about your own day. And, be patient.
30
I'm assuming y'all saying "hey, that's not so bad" are dudes.
We men sometimes get frustrated when our ladies talk. We will try to actually converse when she is deep into a story about the boss being a dick, or some other friend of hers doing your girl wrong.
This is a major pet peeve of mine and I imagine a lot of other women -- the stereotype that women natter on pointlessly about their lives & shit, while men want to "actually converse."
Other aspects of the column might be relatively inoffensive, but not the implication that what men say is inherently more important than what women say.
We men sometimes get frustrated when our ladies talk. We will try to actually converse when she is deep into a story about the boss being a dick, or some other friend of hers doing your girl wrong.
This is a major pet peeve of mine and I imagine a lot of other women -- the stereotype that women natter on pointlessly about their lives & shit, while men want to "actually converse."
Other aspects of the column might be relatively inoffensive, but not the implication that what men say is inherently more important than what women say.
29
Post should've been titled: Macho Archetype Redefines Masculinity for the 21st Century. I found it a kind of touching effort on ol' Duff's part. God, shouldn't Mudede weigh in on this and maybe draw some wildass parallel to the role of the lionan lioness on the savanna?
27
If this becomes representative of the "well-meaning but unenlightened, non-feminist-theory-reading" norm, then I'm okay with that. Anything that includes "do the dishes" and "don't sleep around on your partner" as part of "being a man" is a step in the right direction on better constructions of masculinity.
25
It could be a lot worse. If these are the rules your average meathead is trying to follow, I'm OK with that.
24
OK, so, he's not politically perfect. but you gotta admit, for someone who grew up in a 5K radius of the asshole axel rose power plant, he's come a long way (baby) in terms of viewing women as something other than groupie dick warmers. it's sad, but progress is slow; if a beastie boy can grow up to marry kathleen hanna, then it's possible for a GNR bassist (maybe) to eventually be pro-feminist.
23
@18, people say that anti-feminists are looking for reasons to pick a fight, and you just proved it. I'm a feminist (a female one, not that we all are female) and I have no problem with what the guy said.
22
Ease up, Megan. He had to write a column this week, he wrote it, and as most everyone here says, it's not mind-blowing but it's not misogynistic. Dopey, but whatever. I'm a guy, married 20+ years, and my wife agrees. You want something different? Go for it, I hope you find it, and when you're as old as Duff or me, check back and tell us what works for you. Hugs.
20
duff mckagan is a good guy. a little rough around the edges, sure, but a good guy nonetheless. lay off.
19
Yeah, this isn't such a bad list. There's actually some decent stuff here. So thanks, Megan, for bringing it to my attention. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
Are we seeing a Megan-McKagan, old school Stranger-vs-Weekly beef?
Are we seeing a Megan-McKagan, old school Stranger-vs-Weekly beef?
18
Everything in that linked article was 100% correct.
And here people say feminists are looking for reasons to be offended/have no sense of humor. Whatever could lead to that conclusion?
And here people say feminists are looking for reasons to be offended/have no sense of humor. Whatever could lead to that conclusion?
17
I found the commenters more hilarious/sad than the piece itself. Yes, Slog has its fair share of incessant trolls who make idiotic comments on nearly every post (you all know who I'm talking about), but it appears that Seattle Weekly's comment sections are about on par with YouTube's when it comes to insightful commentary.
16
didn't read the whole article but there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you quoted. Basically, it's "Don't try to fix her, just listen to her." That should be put on billboards.
15
Wow, Megan, this post is kind of psycho.
Your sweety just wants you to listen.
Really good advice. It took me a while to learn to stop going into troubleshooting mode and just let my wife vent, but glad I did.
Don't be a pussy, Learn how to fight.
Unfortunately, yes. While men don't have to worry about getting raped, we do have to worry about other random assholes picking fights with us. In my experience, if you know how to fight, you will likely never have to.
Your sweety just wants you to listen.
Really good advice. It took me a while to learn to stop going into troubleshooting mode and just let my wife vent, but glad I did.
Don't be a pussy, Learn how to fight.
Unfortunately, yes. While men don't have to worry about getting raped, we do have to worry about other random assholes picking fights with us. In my experience, if you know how to fight, you will likely never have to.
13
@11
which is why it might be time for a letter writing campaign to the Weekly demanding he change the title of his column to "Shoot The Messenger".
@9
indeed!
which is why it might be time for a letter writing campaign to the Weekly demanding he change the title of his column to "Shoot The Messenger".
@9
indeed!
12
Slightly off-topic, but in the vein of @10's comment, this site is a tongue-in-cheek look at real actual honest-to-god counseling-level shit, couched in "manly" images: http://mantherapy.org
The site is a colloboration between Denver-based creative agency Cactus, the Office of Suicide Prevention at the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, and the Carson J Spencer Foundation.
The site is a colloboration between Denver-based creative agency Cactus, the Office of Suicide Prevention at the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, and the Carson J Spencer Foundation.
11
For every good point, he unintentionally commits one of the errors he's trying counseling men against (usually that last one, about evolving).
10
Kind of a fluff article but not as stupid as advertised. I think many men would benefit from reading that article. If someone here is looking for advice on How to Be a Man, I think this site is cool: http://artofmanliness.com
9
I think @5 and I share a brain. Good thing we don't also share a keyboard, or we couldn't have been writing our posts at the same time!
8
@1: Agreed. I think these are all pretty reasonable things to aspire to, and the majority could actually be on a "how to be a good person" list. I guess you could argue that his language leaves something to be desired, for instance "don't be a pussy" is not the best way to say "be brave." I expected it to be more inflammatory from Megan's reaction.
7
@4 black belt is being able to zone out completely, going maybe a little bit eye-walled, while occasionally nodding or saying "uh huh" at all the right moments with all the intuition of zen master, while your conscious mind is free to drift in an infinite nirvana, free from being implicated in whatever bullshit drama she's droning on about now.
6
I'm with @1. Did he say a few things that rubbed me the wrong way? Sure. I don't love the phrase "don't be a pussy," because it uses slang for female genitalia as an insult. But the next sentence is "Don't shy away from a situation just because it's tough." Hard to argue with that.
As for the "we sometimes get frustrated when our ladies talk" bit - it's clear from the context he does not mean to say that women shouldn't talk (which yes, would be irredeemable). It's also worth highlighting that when one follows the link, the sentence immediately before this was "Listen to your girl." He's clearly talking about a style of communication. I'd prefer he not rely on gender essentialism, but that sentence means something VERY different in isolation (or when bolded, for effect) than when read as part of the paragraph. I took it to mean, "men tend to want to fix the problem, and it can be really frustrating to want to help someone when they don't seem to want your help, but you just need to learn to *listen* to her, goddammit." Don't love the way he said it, but I'm on board with the general message. I think almost all of us - men and women alike - could stand to be better listeners.
I actually *liked* the "do the dishes" advice. Telling men they should pitch in around the house? You really find that objectionable?
The "save it for your girl" quote you excerpted is also grossly misleading. Let's look at the full text in context, shall we?:
"Save it for your girl: The "it" I am speaking of actually acts as "glue" for a relationship. Monogamy is key. If you can't be honest with your lady, it serves that you aren't being honest at all, and that is a loser's game."
I object to the "monogamy is key" sentence (it stigmatizes non-monogamous relationships), but he's promoting a) honesty, and b) not cheating on your partner. Again, astounded you find this objectionable.
Let's also look at the other passage you misleadingly quoted:
"Learn how to fight: Yep, go box or learn some style of martial art or mixed martial art. It'll actually have the opposite effect on us fellas. Instead of being threatened out there at a bar or whatever, having skill in some fighting discipline will calm that dumb machismo that all of us dudes are born with, and those previously thought threats from some dumbass will suddenly seem silly. Fighting skill and conditioning will give you confidence in many areas of your life."
A bit of a different effect than "learn how to fight," no?
More...
As for the "we sometimes get frustrated when our ladies talk" bit - it's clear from the context he does not mean to say that women shouldn't talk (which yes, would be irredeemable). It's also worth highlighting that when one follows the link, the sentence immediately before this was "Listen to your girl." He's clearly talking about a style of communication. I'd prefer he not rely on gender essentialism, but that sentence means something VERY different in isolation (or when bolded, for effect) than when read as part of the paragraph. I took it to mean, "men tend to want to fix the problem, and it can be really frustrating to want to help someone when they don't seem to want your help, but you just need to learn to *listen* to her, goddammit." Don't love the way he said it, but I'm on board with the general message. I think almost all of us - men and women alike - could stand to be better listeners.
I actually *liked* the "do the dishes" advice. Telling men they should pitch in around the house? You really find that objectionable?
The "save it for your girl" quote you excerpted is also grossly misleading. Let's look at the full text in context, shall we?:
"Save it for your girl: The "it" I am speaking of actually acts as "glue" for a relationship. Monogamy is key. If you can't be honest with your lady, it serves that you aren't being honest at all, and that is a loser's game."
I object to the "monogamy is key" sentence (it stigmatizes non-monogamous relationships), but he's promoting a) honesty, and b) not cheating on your partner. Again, astounded you find this objectionable.
Let's also look at the other passage you misleadingly quoted:
"Learn how to fight: Yep, go box or learn some style of martial art or mixed martial art. It'll actually have the opposite effect on us fellas. Instead of being threatened out there at a bar or whatever, having skill in some fighting discipline will calm that dumb machismo that all of us dudes are born with, and those previously thought threats from some dumbass will suddenly seem silly. Fighting skill and conditioning will give you confidence in many areas of your life."
A bit of a different effect than "learn how to fight," no?
5
yeah, I was expecting some really whack shit here. sure it's not the most enlightened take...sure a lot of "how to be a man" could be advice given in a less gendered manner. there are certainly some turns of phrase that a younger, self-aware-type might not use, but I'm having trouble disagreeing with most of what he says here. the fact that he ends with a bit about learning to evolve, and takes the time to acknowledge we don't live in the same world as our parents or grandparents also means he probably realizes he's not the most informed person to be handing out life-lessons these days. but what 80% of what he's saying makes sense.
and the quote you posted didn't really seem like it was directed at men who get frustrated because their partners are talking in a general sense. it seemed more geared to guys who have the impulse to "do something" when their girlfriends, or what have you, are venting their frustrations. he saying, "just be there for them and listen to what they have to say. don't show up at their bosses' house with a baseball bat, even if you are pissed at this situation".
for the record, just about everything Duff writes for the Weekly really bums me out. this piece, however, is hardly the transgression you were making it out to be. the dude's just not a very good writer, and as @1 says, it's kinda cheesy.
and the quote you posted didn't really seem like it was directed at men who get frustrated because their partners are talking in a general sense. it seemed more geared to guys who have the impulse to "do something" when their girlfriends, or what have you, are venting their frustrations. he saying, "just be there for them and listen to what they have to say. don't show up at their bosses' house with a baseball bat, even if you are pissed at this situation".
for the record, just about everything Duff writes for the Weekly really bums me out. this piece, however, is hardly the transgression you were making it out to be. the dude's just not a very good writer, and as @1 says, it's kinda cheesy.
4
Listening is green belt. Black belt is talking about your inner subjective experience and being honest about your vulnerabilities .
2
Can you imagine running a publication and having the thought "let's give the bassist of Guns N' Roses a weekly column" cross your mind?
1
I guess I don't really see what the problem is. I mean, yeah, it's a bit cheesy, but most of what he's saying is anti-machismo. Is that bad?
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Portland Voters Are Stoopid by Goldy
-
An I-5 Bridge Over the Skagit River Has Collapsed by Paul Constant
-
Why They Break Windows by Unpaid Intern
-
Usually When I'm Sent a Photoshopped Image of a Gun Pointed At Me... by Dan Savage
-
Did You Steal Our Unpaid Intern's Camera? by Goldy
-
The Only Thing More Tragic than a Bridge Collapse Would Be a 10 Cent a Gallon Increase in the Gas Tax by Goldy
-
Tornado Truthers by Dan Savage
-
Star Trek Releases Deleted Scene of Benedict Cumberbatch Showering to Counter Claims of Sexism by Cienna Madrid
-
Boy Scouts Lift Ban on Gay Members by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Not A Prude... And Not Just Not That... by Dan Savage
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (46) RSS