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Friday, December 14, 2012

White House Says "Today Is Not The Day" to Debate Gun Control

Posted by on Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:40 AM

As news filtered in Friday from the school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said "today is not the day," to engage in a policy debate over gun control. The shooting at an elementary school killed 27, the Associated Press reported Friday afternoon.

Bullshit. Today is exactly the day to discuss gun control. Because last week it wasn't timely and next week we'll be mourning... and the week after that it won't be urgent. When can we have the debate?

Carney ducked the question when asked when would be a good time to engage in a substantive debate on gun control, repeating that today isn't the time. Obama has drawn criticism for never making gun control an administration priority.

It's always jam tomorrow, jam yesterday... while these things keep happening regularly enough to set your watch.

Maybe this elusive debate would find that more gun control simply won't work, as the NRA is constantly bleating. But maybe—just maybe—sensible Americans believe that freedom isn't defined by the right for any of us to be shot to death at any moment, on purpose or on accident, just because everyone is entitled to casually carry around souped-up murder weapons.

UPDATE at 11:00 AM: Why have this debate now? Because the radical right is already having this debate today. Here's the a tweet from earlier (that now seems to have gone missing from his feed) from the American Family Association's Bryan Fischer:

bryan_fischer_tweet.jpeg

Yes, part of this debate is that we should let seven year olds and teachers trot around school with concealed semi-automatic weapons, because that would solve everything. And it's not just Bryan Fischer's implication of arming teachers—folks like this Reuters commenter say it outright:

idiot_comment.png

These nutters don't represent the entire discussion, of course. The entire discussion includes lots of rational people—including President Obama. If the left's leader is too scared to engage, the other side owns the debate and pushes it further into lethal crazy town.

 

Comments (70) RSS

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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 1
Let's just discuss gun control all the time. If we were already talking about gun control is it our fault that out of nowhere another massacre just happened to come along? Who could have predicted that?
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on December 14, 2012 at 10:44 AM · Report this
pfffter 2
Amen, Dominic. A-fucking-men.
Posted by pfffter on December 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM · Report this
3
I agree. People keep saying this is a time for mourning, not fighting. But we are too late. We have failed, over and over again to solve this problem. It's time to get to work. Let's let the families of the victims do the mourning.
Posted by mustachio on December 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM · Report this
4
Way to go Obama!

What the hell. "Now is not the time to discuss patching up that hole at the side of the ship."
Posted by floater on December 14, 2012 at 10:47 AM · Report this
Fnarf 5
Gun owners suck. We get it, you win. You get to keep as many guns as you want, and we get to keep taking your bullets, now and forever. But hear this: fuck you. That's all.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 10:50 AM · Report this
Ryandroid 6
It's not just gun laws that need to be fixed in America. It's the mental health system as well. We need a government that both refuses to let guns and ammo be bought on a whim as well as a government that refuses to let those who are suffering with mental illness go unnoticed and find themselves on the path that leads to self-harm and the harm of those around them.
Posted by Ryandroid on December 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 7
Obama...if they come after you to impeach you for any reason after THAT moment of cowardice... then I hope they pull it off.

FUCKING LEAD MR. PRESIDENT..or resign and let Biden lead.
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on December 14, 2012 at 10:53 AM · Report this
Fnarf 8
@6, the shooter in Portland didn't buy his weapon "on a whim" or in any other way; he stole it, from a perfectly sane, perfectly reasonable legal adult gun owner.

Gun owners = shit.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 10:54 AM · Report this
9
this is part of world war terrorism. the tighter you clamp down on the enemy the angrier they get. I would advocate a total retreat.
Posted by carsten coolage on December 14, 2012 at 10:55 AM · Report this
Cascadian Bacon 10
Connecticut has an assault weapons ban that was instituted in 1993 before the Clinton ban of 1994. Connecticut has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

http://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/law/firearm

Schools are a gun free zone under federal law.

Condolences to the dead.
Posted by Cascadian Bacon on December 14, 2012 at 11:00 AM · Report this
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 11
@8

Remember trigger locks? That was a sensible law. Require responsible gun owners to have trigger locks. Then when you steal a gun it's not so easy to use.

Of course owning a trigger lock doesn't mean you will use it. But if you're too lazy or stubborn to lock your gun, and it gets stolen used in a crime, you could be sued for negligence.

Which why the NRA would have none of it. Of course they claimed trigger locks was a useless, meaningless law that would have no effect at all. But that's just their usual tactic. The fact is it would have prevented some killings, and it would have put gun owners on the spot.

Gun owners would have had to take a little tiny bit of personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is a pillar of conservative values. So they tell us.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on December 14, 2012 at 11:00 AM · Report this
Will in Seattle 12
Obviously today is the day we should discuss banning kids.

I mean, if they didn't present such good targets for armed wacko shooters, they wouldn't be dead, right?
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on December 14, 2012 at 11:03 AM · Report this
Pick1 13
@8 That fucking attitude is what's shit. We can't discuss gun control because "fuck us" that's why?

Discussion doesn't mean more fucking gun control. If studies show that gun control won't work, then I would let people have their godamn guns.

How about a psych eval when getting a gun permit?

How about we stop letting innocent people die from a tool, that when used as intended, ends life. How about we stop squeakin' "They kill people" only to get drowned out by your shouts of "AMERICA!"

I don't want a war on guns, but I want a fucking reasonable debate without you shouting about being a victim of overreach. How many shootings? How many people need to fucking die before you realize that while carrying a gun might be okay for you, there might need to be some additional restrictions so that we can prevent even one mass shooting.
Posted by Pick1 on December 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM · Report this
14
@8 Gun owners = shit? Like your murdered grandfather, the gun owner? You're the grandson of shit. Okay.

Look. This is incredibly tragic. And people have a right to be emotional. People certainly have a right to demand a political solution.

But you do this no matter what.

My grandfather was a gun owner. My father is a gun owner. My mother is a gun owner. People you KNOW (we know the same people) own guns.

And they are not shit. They are good people. Every single one of them are liberals who would endorse stricter gun control.

I get pretty tired of your insulting simplistic bullshit. So. Guess what, Thornton? Fuck you.
Posted by tkc on December 14, 2012 at 11:08 AM · Report this
Catalina Vel-DuRay 15
Here's the thing of it: It will never be "the time" to talk about gun control, because the conservative media industry will immediately go into hyperoverdrive to be offended on the part of a largely indifferent nation. This kind of conservative is a minority of the country, as the elections consistently prove, but they get all the oxygen because they control so much of the media, and they claim the ownership of the nation's mythology.

OTOH, it was never "the time" to speak about minority rights, or gay rights, or women voting, or any of the hundreds of achievements we have had - and each time, we had to go up against this same mindset, albeit a much less powerful version of it.

The press secretary is just the press secretary - he's always going to say stuff like what he said. Will the President actually step up and address this issue? If he does, what can he do? Declare Martial Law? Close the gun shops? Even if he could, that ship sailed a long time ago. This begins in the Congress, and the Congress is hopelessly gerrymandered along party lines.

It's what's left of the sane Republicans who have to really step forward.
Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay http://www.danlangdon.com on December 14, 2012 at 11:08 AM · Report this
16
Yeah, let's create a situation where only COPS and the ARMY have the guns. I'm sure we'll be fine.

Also, shut the fuck up, Dominic. How are you such a little maggot so consistently? How you love a fucking boot on your face.
Posted by 126yearcaphillresident on December 14, 2012 at 11:11 AM · Report this
care bear 17
Okay, and what day will we be talking about mental health services?
Posted by care bear on December 14, 2012 at 11:12 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 18
Like we have ever bothered to talk about it when it was a good time.

How can there be a "bad time" for a conversation no one even wants to have?

Posted by Theodore Gorath on December 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM · Report this
Ziggity 19
YESTERDAY was the day to discuss gun policy.
Posted by Ziggity on December 14, 2012 at 11:18 AM · Report this
20
It comes back to this: you're not going to make guns go away. Closing your eyes and wishing hard isn't going to do it. Legislating them into illegality isn't going to do it. There are too many guns, too many responsible, legal, sane gun owners. So: feel free to discuss gun control without some sort of rational standards all you like. The ranters on this page can argue with the NRA nuts until you use up all the O2 in the room and you all die of asphyxiation. Maybe once you do, the rational ones of us left who own guns and also value life can have a reasonable discussion and come to some legitimately useful standards for gun ownership, like background checks, gun safety courses, weapon registration, etc.
Posted by NateMan on December 14, 2012 at 11:19 AM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 21
Drone strike the next NRA convention. They are a terrorist organization and they have helped create the hell the parents of those kids will live in THE REST OF THEIR LIVES!!

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on December 14, 2012 at 11:21 AM · Report this
22
Gun control needs to be discussed, but I'd like to see news sources declined to publish the name and photo of the shooter. It is not necessary and I think, among a certain type, promotes identification with the perpetrator. Maybe the Stranger can take the lead? Victims should be the ones we remember.
Posted by Jude Fawley on December 14, 2012 at 11:21 AM · Report this
23
President Obama is on the left? And he's the leader of the left??? When did this happen?
Posted by catsnbanjos on December 14, 2012 at 11:21 AM · Report this
rejemy 24
Breaking: GOP floats plan to make teacher's unions the most heavily armed of all unions.
Posted by rejemy on December 14, 2012 at 11:26 AM · Report this
Fnarf 25
@14, no, FUCK YOU. You are the murderer here. Every gun owner in the country is complicit. I stand with the victims, not with the gun-owning maggots.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM · Report this
26
@20
"Maybe once you do, the rational ones of us left who own guns and also value life can have a reasonable discussion and come to some legitimately useful standards for gun ownership, like background checks, gun safety courses, weapon registration, etc."

And closing the "trade show" loophole.
But the problem is that those discussions need to happen OUTSIDE of the discussion of the latest shooting incident.
But they never happen until there is another incident and then the emotional displays mean that nothing meaningful will ever be arrived at.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on December 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM · Report this
27
I agree with the White House.

It's exploitative and a little sick.
Posted by GermanSausage on December 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM · Report this
28
@6 THANK YOU! We absolutely need to start talking about the mental health system in these situations as well as the guns.
Posted by Erica Tarrant on December 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM · Report this
TheMisanthrope 29
If we don't have guns, how are we going to have a revolution in this country, since the revolution will be against the ones that do?
Posted by TheMisanthrope on December 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM · Report this
keshmeshi 30
Bryan Fischer is a shit stain.
Posted by keshmeshi on December 14, 2012 at 11:48 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 31
@25: Just curious: my grandfather won a modern muzzle loading rifle in an auction, which he gifted me with years ago. I have never taken it out of the box, it just sits in my closet gathering dust. Technically I am a "gun owner," and one that did not even have to go through any background checks.

Am I a murdering maggot, or no? Generally curious.

Posted by Theodore Gorath on December 14, 2012 at 11:49 AM · Report this
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 32
@16

You know Saddam Hussein required every adult male to own an assault rifle, right? He ruled comfortably for 24 years.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on December 14, 2012 at 11:49 AM · Report this
SPG 33
Off the top of my head, here's how you could close the "gun show" loophole. Require that every private gun sale be brokered through a licensed gun dealer that is responsible for the background checks. Set a standard price of something like 3% or $25 and levy large fines on anyone who doesn't go about it the correct way. This would be no different than a car sale that has to be registered with the state, so it's not infringing on anyone's freedom and lets the gun collectors do their thing without putting the rest of the public in more harm.
Institute mandatory mental health evaluations for a gun permit.
Fund the mental health system to keep people from sliding down this path of homicidal behaviour.
Posted by SPG on December 14, 2012 at 11:55 AM · Report this
34
I'll say it: liability for the legitimate, sane owners of guns that kill people, whether or not the owners were the shooters, unless they can prove those guns were kept unloaded under lock and key.
Posted by Prettybetsy on December 14, 2012 at 11:55 AM · Report this
35
Gun control ought to be discussed and improved, but advocates show such ugly and vile attitudes in doing so, inadvertently illustrating the culture of blame, paranoia and hate that produces this kind of violence in the first place.
Posted by Gomez http://misterstevengomez.com on December 14, 2012 at 11:57 AM · Report this
Dr_Awesome 36
"The ranters on this page can argue with the NRA nuts until you use up all the O2 in the room and you all die of asphyxiation. Maybe once you do, the rational ones of us left who own guns and also value life can have a reasonable discussion "

Very true, thank you @NateMan.

Fnarf: Chill. I am a gun owner too, as is The Future Mrs. Dr Awesome. Some were purchased, some were gifts or inheritances. I've taken safety classes, I was raised by a hunter, all our guns are safely locked in a secure and immobile gun safe. There are no children in our household.

I am under no illusions that having guns makes me safer, or will prevent burglary or robbery. Like most Americans, we are away from our house eight to ten hours a day during daylight hours.

But, Fnarf, do not call me complicit in murder. I do not belong to the NRA, never have. I do not contribute to any right-wing campaigns, nor voted for any republican ever.

I am in favor of stronger laws, closing the gun-show loophole, better mental health systems, and even increased taxes- less money for me if it will go toward making ALL of us safer. I am all for this discussion moving forward. You go ahead and rant away, and consume all the oxygen in the room, Fnarf, for all the gawddamn good it'll do you. The rest of us will be discussing it like adults.
Posted by Dr_Awesome on December 14, 2012 at 11:57 AM · Report this
SPG 37
@31, If your modern muzzle loading rifle were stolen in a burglary and used to kill someone, then yes. Your modern muzzle loading rifle was not designed and built to do anything but fire a projectile. Chances are that it won't fire a projectile into a person, but that is what it was designed and built to do.
Posted by SPG on December 14, 2012 at 11:58 AM · Report this
Fnarf 38
@31, you and I both know perfectly well that I am not talking about fucking muzzle-loaders. I don't give a shit what you do with your fabulous gun, even if you accidentally blow your face off with it some fine day.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 11:59 AM · Report this
39
Maybe both sides can get together on a conversation about mental health. I am so tired of pretending all the people around me that need help don't exist.
Posted by NotAlwaysAJerk on December 14, 2012 at 12:08 PM · Report this
40
@38: Feel better now? Getting the useless outrage out move some of the weight off your chest? I hope so, because here's a little hint: You're never going to put reasonable safety restrictions on gun ownership by calling every gun owner a murderer. You accomplish exactly the opposite. So yeah, it makes you just as complicit as every NRA jerk-off that dry humps his semi-auto. Your contribution to the discussion, to rationality, and to functionality is not just zero; it's negative. I suggest either growing up or shutting up if you want anything to change.
Posted by NateMan on December 14, 2012 at 12:09 PM · Report this
Fnarf 41
@36, your ownership of guns makes you complicit. Whether you support the NRA or not, you rest on legal rights that they have won for you -- legal rights that make you a menace to civilized society, no matter how responsible you think you are.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM · Report this
42

You are the murderer here. Every gun owner in the country is complicit. I stand with the victims, not with the gun-owning maggots.


@25 Jesus Christ. The above sounds rational to you? What did you just join a Pro-Life group or something?

I don't own a gun. And I too stand with the victims. Do I have to hate and shun my family to do that? Do I have to think of them as maggots and murders? Listen to yourself.

You are compulsively lumping everybody together into a bizarre paranoid enemies list you've concocted in your head and then lashing out that imaginary list indiscriminately. It's impossible to take you seriously anymore.

Do you think of yourself as the grandson of a mentally unstable maggot, shit, who should've been shunned? This is the insane level of crackpot rhetoric you have reached.


Posted by tkc on December 14, 2012 at 12:14 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 43
@ Fnarf, you are Absolutely. Not. Helping.

Pull it together, or get the fuck out. Seriously.
Posted by Matt from Denver on December 14, 2012 at 12:16 PM · Report this
44
Fnarf. You have gone completely off the rails here. Do I have to remind you I know you. I have met you. We share friends. Is this the kind of shit you want your friends or wife to read? Would you say this kind of shit on a moderated site like Metafilter. You sound god damned insane here. Go take a coffee break for fuck sake.
Posted by tkc on December 14, 2012 at 12:17 PM · Report this
Fnarf 45
@40, fact: there are never going to be "reasonable safety restrictions". You know it and I know it. There's never going to be ANY restrictions of any kind on gun ownership. In fact, it's going to go the other way: what few restrictions there are today are going to disappear. America is GUN CRAZY, and it's not ever going to change. That's a plain and simple fact. It doesn't matter how many kids get shot up in schools or shopping malls. It doesn't matter in the slightest.

Rage is the only weapon we have left. You're getting some now. You deserve it. Don't tell me to shut up. My rage is absolutely justified.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 12:17 PM · Report this
46
@45: 'Kay, you have fun in CrazyLand, because you've clearly moved there full-time. CT itself has extremely restrictive gun laws already, and everyone knows it. Not that you give a shit, because you're working yourself right up to a full-on hate boner now that has nothing to do with tragedy or compassion or pity or sympathy, and everything to do with your blind certainty.

But you are right in one thing; it's not going to change. And you're a good example of why it won't. Because we have no fucking reason in the world to listen to you. Your rage, while perhaps justified, is also completely and utterly useless. Go have your aneurysm quietly somewhere else, and maybe the adults left behind can actually accomplish something.
Posted by NateMan on December 14, 2012 at 12:23 PM · Report this
47
@45
Fnarf, there was a time in the past when you could order a fully automatic Tommy gun by mail order.
There was a time in the past when there were no background checks for gun purchases.
Progress happens but it is slow at times and needs to be focused on specific issues.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on December 14, 2012 at 12:24 PM · Report this
Fnarf 48
I'm sorry if I'm "not helping" you have your pointless little discussion that comes out the same way every time. "Oh, maybe we should ban bullets instead", "we need beetter mental health systems", blah blah blah. None of that is going to happen. None of that is EVER going to happen.

You know what's going to happen? More school shootings. More mall shootings. They're coming. I can feel them in the air.

But hey, go ahead and have your little chat if it makes you feel better. Me? NOTHING MAKES ME FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOUR GUNS. Only worse. Each time a little worse.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 12:26 PM · Report this
Fnarf 49
@46, CT's gun laws aren't particularly restrictive, and they mean absolutely nothing when CT is surrounded by 300 million people who are OBSESSED WITH GUNS.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 12:27 PM · Report this
50
@48: And you still don't get that it's not about your comfort. I don't need you to feel good about my gun ownership. I'm not interested in making you feel warm, fuzzy, or safe. Nobody is. I'm interested in making sure the guns that aren't going anywhere are owned by sane, responsible people who aren't going to open fire in schools. I'm interested in making sure that, like every dangerous thing to own or consume out there, it does as little damage as possible.

Yes, there will be more shootings. It doesn't take a prognosticator of great skill to tell that; there will always be more death. I'm interested in limiting those numbers. Are you? Because it sure doesn't seem like it.
Posted by NateMan on December 14, 2012 at 12:30 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 51
I think that if Today Is Not The Day then perhaps Yesterday Is The Day.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on December 14, 2012 at 12:31 PM · Report this
Fnarf 52
@50, oh, yeah, you're "interested in limiting those numbers". How do you propose to do so? Don't tell me what specific legislative proposal you have in mind; tell me what specific legislative proposal THAT HAS A CHANCE IN HELL OF PASSING you have in mind.

Because there is no such thing.

A bill that "shooting innocent children is to be discouraged" would fail in today's Congress, and tomorrow's.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 14, 2012 at 12:38 PM · Report this
53
@45 Oh fer sake. Knock it off. It's not justified rage. It's irrational wing-nuttery. And no different than the bullshit Fred Phelps or any other lunatic fringe asshole spouts. Quit wrapping your assholery in the flag of tragedy and get your shit together.
Posted by tkc on December 14, 2012 at 12:38 PM · Report this
54
@46
"Not that you give a shit, because you're working yourself right up to a full-on hate boner now that has nothing to do with tragedy or compassion or pity or sympathy, and everything to do with your blind certainty."

Grief porn.
I'm a Good Person because this horrible event horrifies me.
And I must perform in public so that all may know that I am a Good Person.
And that anyone who disagrees with me is a Bad Person.

As always, the problem is that the discussion of rational, possible legislative changes gets overwhelmed by the public displays of grief porn.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on December 14, 2012 at 12:38 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 55
Pull it together, Fnarf. I don't own any guns. I never want to own any guns. I'm not pro gun.

You're not even helping yourself with this stuff.
Posted by Matt from Denver on December 14, 2012 at 12:38 PM · Report this
Cascadian Bacon 56
Fnarf is making a good point by proving that some people are totally irrational nutcases who have no business being around firearms.
Posted by Cascadian Bacon on December 14, 2012 at 12:40 PM · Report this
bleedingheartlibertarian 57
The problem with Republicans is that they are scared of the Republican base.

The problem with Democrats is that they are also scared of the Republican base.
Posted by bleedingheartlibertarian on December 14, 2012 at 12:47 PM · Report this
58
One of the solution is to have every gun now manufactured embeds a simple signal emitter (so it can't be or extremely difficult to taken out); that way public places like school or government building can install gun detector so if some nut job is about to enter w/ guns the alarm would immediately set off (not for those authorized) and buy some time for police or guard to take action.
Posted by JaxBriggs on December 14, 2012 at 12:55 PM · Report this
59
@52: How do I propose to do so? I have some ideas:
1. Encourage non-crazy people to join the NRA. Get enough reasonable gun owners involved to encourage them to push for reasonable gun legislation while still protecting our rights to own shit we want to. (Note: This isn't original to me. I can't remember who I'm stealing it from, though.)
2. State-by-state gun registration. You'll never get a national database, any more than we can get one for driver licenses and car registrations. At least, not yet. But you can work on it on the state level. Many if not most blue states have it already, along with instant background checks and mandated gun safety courses.
3. MORE gun safety courses. More representation of SANE and SAFE gun handling. Easy to do on a grassroots level.
4. More legislation restricting gun ownership by those with DUI, DWI, and public intoxication records - oh, and while we're at it, some actual penalties for said DUIs. Save a lot more lives than just with gun violence.
5. Work with groups like the White Ribbon Campaign that are encouraging young men in high schools and colleges to stand up against violence, particularly directed against women and children.

And finally, work with sane gun advocacy groups - or create our own - that aren't interested in the bullshit rhetoric spewed by either the NRA or people like you. Will it be easy? Nope. Is there a chance to make a difference? You bet. Separate machismo from gun ownership and you can make a difference. We've brought down rape and assault rates. We've brought down gun violence - not that you seem to give a shit, because every life lost is another victory for you to chalk up in the righteousness column.

We can do more. The GOP/NRA hardliner is a dying breed, and they know it. The best thing we can do is set a better example for the people around us, and be prepared for the next tragedy. We can teach our children how to be safe around guns, cars, sex, drugs, alcohol, and all the other things that can kill you. We can teach them to have the respect for one another that all these shooters lack.

But if you want to throw fuel on the fire, be my guest. Kneejerk paternalism doesn't help anyone, not you and not the victims of gun violence. All it does is remind gun owners that your side can't be expected to hold a reasonable discussion and work towards reasonable goals any more than you can trust a pro-lifer.
More...
Posted by NateMan on December 14, 2012 at 12:58 PM · Report this
matt 60
President Obama:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/write-…

Vice President Biden:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact-vp

Senate Majority Leader Reid:
http://www.reid.senate.gov/contact/index…

Speaker Boehner:
http://www.speaker.gov/Contact/

Senate Minority Leader McConnell:
http://www.mcconnell.senate.gov/public/i…

House Minority Leader Pelosi:
AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

..and of course, your local Senator and Congressperson.

http://www.demandaplan.org
Posted by matt on December 14, 2012 at 1:03 PM · Report this
King Rat 61
You're the goddamn news. You can make it urgent in 2 weeks. But you won't write shit unless there's still blood running.

And the goddamn people? They won't do shit unless the work is limited to reposting image macros and commenting on blogs.
Posted by King Rat http://www.kingrat.us/ on December 14, 2012 at 1:05 PM · Report this
Lissa 62
Oh Fnarf. :( You've given up and succumbed to despair and that won't help or change anything. You're a smart passionate man who works for good in the world. I know you could use your gifts regarding this topic. We all want the same thing, here. Hate isn't going to get us there and it probably isn't even making you feel any better, so please, take a breath. You and I, we don't hate each other. Let's start there.
Posted by Lissa on December 14, 2012 at 1:13 PM · Report this
63
Personally, I find it very reassuring that under Obamacare, 30 million people won't have any health coverage whatsoever, including mental health coverage, and that for many, many tens of millions more, the copays and deductibles will be too high for mentally ill insureds to actually use the coverage they nominally have. I find it reassuring that in states like Washington, it's almost impossible to commit a potentially dangerous mentally ill person to a psychiatric facility against his or her will. I find it reassuring that James Eagan Holmes, who was being treated for schizophrenia, wasn't in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System's (NICS) database. I find it reassuring that some states -- I'm lookin' at you, Wyoming -- don't report any felons or mentally ill people to the NICS. You have to admire a country that places the right of a mentally ill person to keep and bear arms above the right of the average Joe or Jill not to be whacked by a mentally ill person who keeps and bears arms. Hey, it's right there in the Second Amendment:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people, including the potentially dangerous mentally ill and emotionally deranged, to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Posted by PCM on December 14, 2012 at 2:24 PM · Report this
Knat 64
Sadly, a legitimate, intellectual conversation is impossible on this topic because it's almost impossible to divorce reason from emotion on something like this. Just like abortion.

If that were possible, there would be no need for debate. The answer would be obvious.
Posted by Knat on December 14, 2012 at 3:02 PM · Report this
Knat 65
...er, strike that last sentence. Obviously gun control is a complicated issue, even when logic is divorced from emotion. (Abortion is not.)
Posted by Knat on December 14, 2012 at 3:05 PM · Report this
TreGibbs 66
Correct - YESTERDAY would have been better... a-holes.
Posted by TreGibbs on December 14, 2012 at 8:32 PM · Report this
67
Now is the accepted time, not tomorrow, not some more convenient season. It is today that our best work can be done and not some future day or future year. It is today that we fit ourselves for the greater usefulness of tomorrow. Today is the seed time, now are the hours of work, and tomorrow comes the harvest and the playtime.


Some history dude said that a while ago, but I'm not so good with book learnin'... maybe Professor Obama can tell us who said it.
Posted by robotslave on December 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM · Report this
Bob in Guanajuato 68
OK, if today was not the day, Monday will do. Here's a petition to the White House organized by Daily Kos: http://campaigns.dailykos.com/p/dia/acti…
Posted by Bob in Guanajuato http://broughton.ca/blog/ on December 15, 2012 at 9:29 AM · Report this
69
Guns are not the problem. They need to be guided by a person to do damage.

Neglectful parents who (to their benefit) didn't learn how to model constructive and pro-social behavior for their children are a dangerous, growing phenomenon in our society.

Who's regulating/monitoring parenting skills? Because we become parents doesn't give us a "free ticket" from having mental health and interpersonal communication issues which need attention.

Metaphoric to a person who seeks to acquire a gun - a parent who is not "qualified" (has no "background check" or monitoring done for parenting/communication skills) is potentially very dangerous. Further, parents "wrap their hands around" a child, guide/"aim" their direction, and, ultimately, pull the trigger.

What we really need to give our attention to is not the gun, but who's behind the trigger?
Posted by friendlyneighborhood on December 17, 2012 at 8:27 AM · Report this
70
FNarf is a moron nothing less. To say that all us gun owners are implicit shows, without, a shadow of doubt, that you are a moron.

Someone otta whoop your ass fnarf for being a moron. I will volunteer for that job any day.
Posted by Clay hall on December 17, 2012 at 3:30 PM · Report this

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