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29
@24 re @18: There's a difference between a real cock and a fake one, EricaP. Or do you as a non-idiot want to sit down with the idiots who want to hang a fag label on every straight peggee?
@24 and re @26: I respect Dan but I gave up accepting holy writ from established authority when I left the Church; I'm a commenter on his blog, not an acolyte bound to accept my bishop's views on a matter. I think I'm on fairly firm ground in saying that if there's any real way of distinguishing between a straight man on the one hand and gay or bi fella on the other it is whether or not they enjoy sucking cock. Our friend the LW appears to enjoy sex with a woman, and sucking cock. That makes him bi. The fact that the cock is attached to somebody who can be, depending on the schema, be characterized as male or female is rather beside the point.
@27: So do I. They're called "women".
@24 and re @26: I respect Dan but I gave up accepting holy writ from established authority when I left the Church; I'm a commenter on his blog, not an acolyte bound to accept my bishop's views on a matter. I think I'm on fairly firm ground in saying that if there's any real way of distinguishing between a straight man on the one hand and gay or bi fella on the other it is whether or not they enjoy sucking cock. Our friend the LW appears to enjoy sex with a woman, and sucking cock. That makes him bi. The fact that the cock is attached to somebody who can be, depending on the schema, be characterized as male or female is rather beside the point.
@27: So do I. They're called "women".
28
@14: "Either you accept that trans women are women or you don't. Which is it?"
Since the letter is about hiring a sex worker and porn, in both cases specifically seeking out people with breasts and functional penises, I think it's fare to say that the people deliberately seeking this out do not view the objects of their fantasy as being interchangeable with other women. Swap out the porn dvd for one with plain ol' porn actresses and they won't say "Oh. Well, same thing."
If it were about having a long-term romantic pairing you could talk about the gender of the person on the inside, but this really doesn't apply to porn dvds.
Since the letter is about hiring a sex worker and porn, in both cases specifically seeking out people with breasts and functional penises, I think it's fare to say that the people deliberately seeking this out do not view the objects of their fantasy as being interchangeable with other women. Swap out the porn dvd for one with plain ol' porn actresses and they won't say "Oh. Well, same thing."
If it were about having a long-term romantic pairing you could talk about the gender of the person on the inside, but this really doesn't apply to porn dvds.
26
As a gay man, I know of no gay men who suck MTF transexual cock. WE DON'T LIKE THE FEMALE TRAPPINGS. I do know of several guys who will only play with MTF's, but they don't seem to go for men who look/act like men at all.
I support Dan's belief that gay guys don't do females whether or not they've got dicks. I find the idea of doing a pre-op MTF nauseating, and I was 'straight' for 15 years. This guy's straight, folks.
I support Dan's belief that gay guys don't do females whether or not they've got dicks. I find the idea of doing a pre-op MTF nauseating, and I was 'straight' for 15 years. This guy's straight, folks.
25
Not all gay men enjoy sucking cock. my bf is a strong top that only gets off on bootie. He is abhored by the idea of eating pussy, or sucking cock. Curiosity is probably the main factor. Why is it that so many straight identified males are terrified of being gay?
24
@18 If a cis woman wears a strap-on and her boyfriend sucks it before she pegs him, does that make him bisexual? Dan's assessment is that people who like their penises on women are hetero, but you seem to be taking a different view.
@22 If he does go on to be a voracious cock-sucker, then Dan's advice to keep it secret is moot. ("If this truly was a ...never-again experience") But that voracious cock-sucker may still want his primary sexual and romantic relationship to be with a woman. And a lot of women find MM sex hot, so that's not going to be an insurmountable obstacle.
@22 If he does go on to be a voracious cock-sucker, then Dan's advice to keep it secret is moot. ("If this truly was a ...never-again experience") But that voracious cock-sucker may still want his primary sexual and romantic relationship to be with a woman. And a lot of women find MM sex hot, so that's not going to be an insurmountable obstacle.
23
Maybe not obtuse, just tactical. dchari would not be the first person to try and win an argument by playing a nonexistent bigotry card against an ally.
That's one of the charming things about the ideological divide: those on the right will bitch that those on the left are falsely using the _____card (there are more than a few) when, in fact the card is being properly and justly advanced. Slimy folks on the left will use it against friends to win arguments: the targeted ally people who are often afraid to call bullshit on the slander because they don't want to sound like the anti-________ assholes on the right, or because they've so internalized the argument that they guilt-buy it, or because they don't want other allies to say, "maybe he's right and you're just ignoring your own ______-ism!"
Oh, please, don't be obtuse.
Maybe not obtuse, just tactical. dchari would not be the first person to try and win an argument by playing a nonexistent bigotry card against an ally.
That's one of the charming things about the ideological divide: those on the right will bitch that those on the left are falsely using the _____card (there are more than a few) when, in fact the card is being properly and justly advanced. Slimy folks on the left will use it against friends to win arguments: the targeted ally people who are often afraid to call bullshit on the slander because they don't want to sound like the anti-________ assholes on the right, or because they've so internalized the argument that they guilt-buy it, or because they don't want other allies to say, "maybe he's right and you're just ignoring your own ______-ism!"
22
"Either you accept that trans women are women or you don't. Which is it?"
Oh, please, don't be obtuse. The rights that should be accorded to transwomen have zero to do with this. This isn't about fair bathroom access, this is about who her partner is sexually attracted to and intimate with. However GLTBQI alphabet soup allied you are, you still might find his interest to be a dealbreaker. If he is specifically seeking out a piece of anatomy she does not possess, she deserves to know. I know of many, many men that have these interests and freeze, choke, or panic the first time, only to go on to be voracious cock-suckers.
Oh, please, don't be obtuse. The rights that should be accorded to transwomen have zero to do with this. This isn't about fair bathroom access, this is about who her partner is sexually attracted to and intimate with. However GLTBQI alphabet soup allied you are, you still might find his interest to be a dealbreaker. If he is specifically seeking out a piece of anatomy she does not possess, she deserves to know. I know of many, many men that have these interests and freeze, choke, or panic the first time, only to go on to be voracious cock-suckers.
21
@20: I'm in accordance with EricaP's "Why?" re porn disclosure. Nobody is obliged to disclose their porn choices to their significant other.
They are, however, obliged to refrain from having secret sex with prostitutes.
They are, however, obliged to refrain from having secret sex with prostitutes.
20
@14, I’m confused.
If transwomen are either women or not, and they *are,* then there is nothing in his porn tastes to disclose to his girlfriend. He digs chicks. The end.
If transwomen are either women or not, and they aren’t, then this guy needs to ’fess up to being bi, because his taste in porn is gay and he’s just sucked a guy’s dick.
Who a transwoman is may be different from what she represents to a paying customer. Here we’re discussing the perspective of the paying customer.
If transwomen are either women or not, and they *are,* then there is nothing in his porn tastes to disclose to his girlfriend. He digs chicks. The end.
If transwomen are either women or not, and they aren’t, then this guy needs to ’fess up to being bi, because his taste in porn is gay and he’s just sucked a guy’s dick.
Who a transwoman is may be different from what she represents to a paying customer. Here we’re discussing the perspective of the paying customer.
19
A regular STD screen is probably only going to include chlamydia, gonorrhea, HIV, and syphilis, generally things that are difficult to catch through a condom. My experience has always been that only a deluxe, expensive, specially-requested screen includes herpes and HPV tests if you have no blemishes to swab- the things you are relatively likely to catch around a condom.
So rah rah, yeah, more testing is better, but I would not expect it to be waltz-in-the-door simple to be tested for what he's risked.
So rah rah, yeah, more testing is better, but I would not expect it to be waltz-in-the-door simple to be tested for what he's risked.
18
Either you accept that trans women are women or you don't. Which is it?I accept that men who voluntary place penises in their mouths for sexual pleasure are gay or bisexual, not heterosexual. The characterization of the possessor of the penis is irrelevant.
17
Dan reusing transphobic language because the letter writer does doesn't excuse the language.
If a racist wrote in using racial epitets it's not like we would expect him to just default to those for the duration of the letter because a precedent had been set.
If a racist wrote in using racial epitets it's not like we would expect him to just default to those for the duration of the letter because a precedent had been set.
16
@8, my guess is they chose this to get a lot of comments. I suspect they think they make money that way.
@10 good point.
@14 "this guy should've disclosed his tastes in porn to his girlfriend a long time ago?"
Why?
@10 good point.
@14 "this guy should've disclosed his tastes in porn to his girlfriend a long time ago?"
Why?
15
Maybe you were trying to ease his conscience and all, but you *really* don't know any gay men who have sex with t-girls?
That, and it's also very much a bi guy thing to do. For the obvious reasons. I've also met a few bi girls who like this kind of thing for exactly the same reasons.
That, and it's also very much a bi guy thing to do. For the obvious reasons. I've also met a few bi girls who like this kind of thing for exactly the same reasons.
14
It's not really just the term "shemale", which is problematic at best. Actually, the insistence that men who hook up with transsexual women "aren't totally straight" is more troubling. Either you accept that trans women are women or you don't. Which is it?
And this is extra credit, but Dan, couldn't you have mentioned that this guy should've disclosed his tastes in porn to his girlfriend a long time ago?
And this is extra credit, but Dan, couldn't you have mentioned that this guy should've disclosed his tastes in porn to his girlfriend a long time ago?
12
Since “Shemale!” is what’s on the DVD box (sorry, I don’t look for this stuff online so that might be a whole different set of vocabularies), I have no issue with using “shemale” to describe a porn genre.
It’s inappropriate to use to describe a *person* though, unless they put “Shemale!” on their escort ad — which there is no indication that this particular sex worker did.
It’s inappropriate to use to describe a *person* though, unless they put “Shemale!” on their escort ad — which there is no indication that this particular sex worker did.
11
Go protest 30 Rock, already. Most trannies have no problem with the terms "shemale" or "shman" when used with sensitivity and humor. And of the dozens of MTFs and FTMs that I know personally, only one objects to the word "tranny" (sorry, Jim!).
10
@ 6 - Not so sure. I get nauseated from sucking on a condom, even though I normally really, really enjoy giving blowjobs.
9
My god, who chose to run one with the word "shemale" in it?
This thread is about to get destroyed by the word choice police. 60 comments within the next half hour is my guess.
This thread is about to get destroyed by the word choice police. 60 comments within the next half hour is my guess.
8
@5 hopefully, yes, but then whoever chose this letter to re-run should have edited the language for his improved sensibilities (or chosen another letter to run, what was so good about 2009 anyway?)
7
getting with shemales is an entirely straight-male pursuit.So I haven't been gay since last year?
She wasn't an escort, though. Also, she was black, from Chicago, and her name was Michelle, so maybe there was something else going on in my mind.
6
@3 - On the other hand, sticking a cock in your mouth and then feeling nauseated about it is a pretty good indicator that you're not into that...
5
I'm going to assume that Dan wrote this before being educated on why the term "shemale" is problematic, considering this was written over 3 years ago.
3
Dan, I love ya but you're going to have to search pretty hard in the real world to find anyone who believes that sucking cock "shores up your heterosexual bona fides". My own copy of The Audubon Guide to The Heterosexual Male in the Wild notes that the most consistent and reliable identifier of "straight guys" (as they are known) is not plumage or habitat but rather that they don't put cocks in their mouths.
2
Dan, you've received some pretty severe criticism in the past for using the word "shemale." I'm thinking of the glitterbombing incident last year. You said you used the word was in the context of reading the question, and then to correct the question-asker and suggest a better word. But this letter writer didn't bring up the word shemale, you did. Could you explain why, when so many people find the word to be grossly offensive?
1
oh dude...
you are obviously totally innately gay;
otherwise why would a cock ever end up in your mouth?
sorry-
you can't fight what you innately are.
you are obviously totally innately gay;
otherwise why would a cock ever end up in your mouth?
sorry-
you can't fight what you innately are.
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