Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, November 27, 2012
Crime Attorney Releases Dash-Cam Video Showing His Client Being Violently Arrested By SPD Officers
Posted by Cienna Madrid on Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:01 PM
Here's the video we've all been waiting for:
86
This looks like brutality to me, but above all it's just sloppy police work. Even if Officers 1 and 2 had a good reason to arrest based on his answers (or not) to their questions, why'd they start trying to cuff him when he was facing them? That was just amateurish. And Officer 3 is an out-of-control cowboy. Congratulations, sir, you showed that unarmed man who's boss when two of your buddies are holding him down. You're the king of the middle-school parking lot. Is this really the finest Seattle has to offer?
85
@58 -- I can't envision any scenario that doesn't end in violence without the removal of Cop #3. The situation appeared to be in control until Cop #3 showed up. If Cop #1 or Cop 32 had said to Cop #3 "Dude, chill, we got this" I would expect the whole thing to have gone down much better for everyone involved.
83
@75 --
Given the situation -- the police were outnumbered in a somewhat hostile environment -- I'm willing to grant them a little leniency when judging the speed of their decisions. Of course, I'm also willing to grant they had probably cause or at least reason to control the suspect while questioning him.
I promise the police know both of the other men at the bus stop and had reason to fear their ability to quickly become threatening.
Heck, I know crazy legs by reputation and from his history with the SPD.
That's reasonable. This seems like a failure in training. Keep in mind, the suspect is a big man in a very public setting. I doubt he would have stood and detained / arrested himself if only the police asked nicely. Then again, if one of the officers had at least tried asking nicely, we'd be without a scandal.
they should have done differently is spend more time gathering information, instead of leaping to the decision to arrest Etherly with no apparent probable cause.
Given the situation -- the police were outnumbered in a somewhat hostile environment -- I'm willing to grant them a little leniency when judging the speed of their decisions. Of course, I'm also willing to grant they had probably cause or at least reason to control the suspect while questioning him.
I promise the police know both of the other men at the bus stop and had reason to fear their ability to quickly become threatening.
Heck, I know crazy legs by reputation and from his history with the SPD.
I think Faust's mistake here was selecting a force tactic that was guaranteed to result in a struggle. Once he did that, the escalated levels of force that came later were inevitable.
That's reasonable. This seems like a failure in training. Keep in mind, the suspect is a big man in a very public setting. I doubt he would have stood and detained / arrested himself if only the police asked nicely. Then again, if one of the officers had at least tried asking nicely, we'd be without a scandal.
82
Were the officers too aggressive? Yes, especially the one who forcibly subdued Etherly.
As the situation escalated, were the officers' tactics effective in de-escalating the situation? Nope, they made it worse - far worse.
Was Etherly an innocent victim? At first, yes - they rolled up on him like he was a perp, not someone they wanted to get information from. But man, he was willfully and progressively more uncooperative. Egan loses a lot of credibility by not admitting the obvious - he spat on the officer. I don't blame him for doing it, and it doesn't justify the officer's response; but it rightly changes the legal context, as well as public perception.
Will it result in criminal charges against the officer(s)? Not a chance.
Will it result in discipline against the officer? Yes, probably a mild rebuke.
Does it uphold the DOJ findings? 1000%.
Does it mean it's business as usual at SPD? Not necessarily. It takes time to undo years of training and culture. The fact that it was already referred internally to OPA suggests maybe at least leadership recognizes the problems with the way this encounter was handled, even if it's not yet proactively preventing them.
Do Diaz and the SPDG need to go? Probably. I don't see how you can change the culture of the department without major structural change.
Is McGinn to blame? He's come off weak-willed in relation to the SPD and SPDG, but I'm not sure any mayor would have much choice. Both organizations are a little too entrenched. It'll take years of DOJ involvement to break the faustian bargain we have with law enforcement today.
Did Egan and the Stranger oversell this video? Egregiously. It's bad, but not nearly as cut and dry as they made it out to be. Not even close.
More...
As the situation escalated, were the officers' tactics effective in de-escalating the situation? Nope, they made it worse - far worse.
Was Etherly an innocent victim? At first, yes - they rolled up on him like he was a perp, not someone they wanted to get information from. But man, he was willfully and progressively more uncooperative. Egan loses a lot of credibility by not admitting the obvious - he spat on the officer. I don't blame him for doing it, and it doesn't justify the officer's response; but it rightly changes the legal context, as well as public perception.
Will it result in criminal charges against the officer(s)? Not a chance.
Will it result in discipline against the officer? Yes, probably a mild rebuke.
Does it uphold the DOJ findings? 1000%.
Does it mean it's business as usual at SPD? Not necessarily. It takes time to undo years of training and culture. The fact that it was already referred internally to OPA suggests maybe at least leadership recognizes the problems with the way this encounter was handled, even if it's not yet proactively preventing them.
Do Diaz and the SPDG need to go? Probably. I don't see how you can change the culture of the department without major structural change.
Is McGinn to blame? He's come off weak-willed in relation to the SPD and SPDG, but I'm not sure any mayor would have much choice. Both organizations are a little too entrenched. It'll take years of DOJ involvement to break the faustian bargain we have with law enforcement today.
Did Egan and the Stranger oversell this video? Egregiously. It's bad, but not nearly as cut and dry as they made it out to be. Not even close.
80
This thread really makes me regret my vote for McGuinn, I can't wait to replace him. It's not like it's that hard to see what's going on. He's just in the tank for them. What a crook.
79
shame on police. forever. shame shame shame. i wish they could feel something at all... something to make them know how much pain, desperation, and destruction they have caused, but they seem to feel nothing!!! they are like empty violence machines set upon our community. they could make peace, but instead they beat and choke and maim and threaten and kill. police are thugs spreading a virus of dishonesty, violence, and hatred throughout history and all through our community. And this arrest, by these particular cops: i spit on that too.
78
That's why there are police unions, to make getting rid of assholes like this virtually impossible.
It is frustrating to be a cop and have to deal with crap characters like this idiot, but that's a big part of the job. Can't handle it? Do something else.
It is frustrating to be a cop and have to deal with crap characters like this idiot, but that's a big part of the job. Can't handle it? Do something else.
77
From the start, the officer was way too aggressive. He didn't establish a sense of calm or authority over the situation; instead, he's pacing without direction, shouting semi-coherently, and generally acting like being an on-duty police office doesn't merit a certain tact in dealing with citizens, even one whom you suspect is disrespecting you.
The amazing thing is the officer behaved this way knowing he was on video tape. Who knows what could have happened off camera.
The amazing thing is the officer behaved this way knowing he was on video tape. Who knows what could have happened off camera.
76
If McGinn has an ounce of self-preservation left (especially in light of the Burgess announcement), then earlier this evening he was on the phone w/Diaz saying the following: "John, it's you or the cop. One of you has to go. Your choice. I'll need an answer by 7 tomorrow morning."
If McGinn wants another term he's got to step up and let SPD know that a new day is here. They can act like professionals or get jobs in Idaho.
If McGinn wants another term he's got to step up and let SPD know that a new day is here. They can act like professionals or get jobs in Idaho.
75
@68, that's awesome. Nice catch!
@58 / 59 I am always game for some armchair policing. :) So!
I'll stipulate that the officers did have reasonable suspicion to detain Etherly. (I'm not sure what the basis of their suspicion was, but let's run with it.)
#1 thing they should have done differently is spend more time gathering information, instead of leaping to the decision to arrest Etherly with no apparent probable cause.
Yes, I will grant that it's possible there were additional facts not shown on video or otherwise reported yet which supported the arrest decision. But it's hard to get away from the fact that when Etherly says, "Don't worry about my name -- what's your name?", that's the moment when Faust responds, "Turn around and put your hands behind your back."
If the arrest was illegal, as I suspect it was, then they should have done everything differently in terms of how they handled Etherly from there on out. But for the sake of discussion, we'll assume they had PC. So...
#2 thing they should have done differently is not resorted instantly to the force tactic of placing both hands on Etherly's neck. (I'm referring to how, the moment Etherly draws his left hand away from Faust's reach, Faust responds by grabbing Etherly's neck with both hands and only removes his hands from Etherly's neck after Etherly has been pushed down onto the hood of the patrol car by his neck.) I don't think it's humanly possible to not physically struggle with someone who has just pinned you to a car by your neck. Bottom line, I think Faust's mistake here was selecting a force tactic that was guaranteed to result in a struggle. Once he did that, the escalated levels of force that came later were inevitable.
More...
@58 / 59 I am always game for some armchair policing. :) So!
I'll stipulate that the officers did have reasonable suspicion to detain Etherly. (I'm not sure what the basis of their suspicion was, but let's run with it.)
#1 thing they should have done differently is spend more time gathering information, instead of leaping to the decision to arrest Etherly with no apparent probable cause.
Yes, I will grant that it's possible there were additional facts not shown on video or otherwise reported yet which supported the arrest decision. But it's hard to get away from the fact that when Etherly says, "Don't worry about my name -- what's your name?", that's the moment when Faust responds, "Turn around and put your hands behind your back."
If the arrest was illegal, as I suspect it was, then they should have done everything differently in terms of how they handled Etherly from there on out. But for the sake of discussion, we'll assume they had PC. So...
#2 thing they should have done differently is not resorted instantly to the force tactic of placing both hands on Etherly's neck. (I'm referring to how, the moment Etherly draws his left hand away from Faust's reach, Faust responds by grabbing Etherly's neck with both hands and only removes his hands from Etherly's neck after Etherly has been pushed down onto the hood of the patrol car by his neck.) I don't think it's humanly possible to not physically struggle with someone who has just pinned you to a car by your neck. Bottom line, I think Faust's mistake here was selecting a force tactic that was guaranteed to result in a struggle. Once he did that, the escalated levels of force that came later were inevitable.
73
@69 well Leo has an arrest in Chicago for crack so figures his best friends are upstanding members of the crack dealing community.
72
Looking forward to the day the SPD actually has to use force against a citizen without a rap sheet as long as my arm. Where's that video?
70
04:29
The suspect clearly pulled his arm back and had his fist clenched to punch.
Whatever follows after that is justified for subduing a person about to attack an officer.
Case closed.
68
But what is really funny is watching the real crime go down before all this happened with crazy legs. Sticking the drugs in his mouth, dropping the wrapper, and then "Oh there after that guy" pick up the wrapper take the drug out if his mouth back in the wrapper and stick the drugs back into his pocket and roll away.
67
The cop was not under any sort of threat and had literally NO reason to rape-choke and cold-cock a completely helpless suspect.
That said this video is also not going to be seen as the horrific demonstration of abuse it was hyped to be. And why most people in the thread are mostly shrugging it off.
I strongly disagree with shrugging off ANY police abuse, but this is the problem with Goldy and Cienna and The Stranger over-hyping the shit out of this video BEFORE anybody saw it. (Stranger you guys need to treat this shit more seriously and stop acting like local TV news and more like journalists. WWED. Ask "What Would Eli Do?")
You can see immediately with the demeanor of the other cops (and the offending officer) that they all knew there was an over-reaction. Which I suppose bodes well. Because there was a time Seattle cops would just beat the living shit out of you — no EMT's or patrol supervisor would be fourth coming to the scene and any video would just magically disappear. So I suppose maybe the cops at least recognize when they fuck up now.
That said this video is also not going to be seen as the horrific demonstration of abuse it was hyped to be. And why most people in the thread are mostly shrugging it off.
I strongly disagree with shrugging off ANY police abuse, but this is the problem with Goldy and Cienna and The Stranger over-hyping the shit out of this video BEFORE anybody saw it. (Stranger you guys need to treat this shit more seriously and stop acting like local TV news and more like journalists. WWED. Ask "What Would Eli Do?")
You can see immediately with the demeanor of the other cops (and the offending officer) that they all knew there was an over-reaction. Which I suppose bodes well. Because there was a time Seattle cops would just beat the living shit out of you — no EMT's or patrol supervisor would be fourth coming to the scene and any video would just magically disappear. So I suppose maybe the cops at least recognize when they fuck up now.
64
The cop that came over later in the middle that wasn't bald or asian is an asshole. Fuck him. I don't want to pay his salary with my taxes.
63
@58. I would have tried additional questions in a more relaxed tone. I would have let the other cops handle the situation if he reacted that negatively to me. I wouldn't have been spit on, because I wouldn't have choked the guy. If it did escalate to an arrest, I would have been trying to get the guy's arms behind his back, rather than pinning him facing me.
62
@54 sure they may not have done it for kicks, but the third cop was angry and going for force no matter what. You cannot be the sort of person that overreacts like that and be a cop.
61
"I didn't do anything, alright?""
I'm sure Leo Etherly said that during his arrest and jail time for assault…. and the time he was arrested for domestic violence….and the arrest for lewd behavior. He probably said it in all of his 14 court appearances in 3 counties in the past two years as well.
Chris Rock has a pretty easy to understand video on how not to get smacked around by the police:
tinyurl.com/bpokbu4
I'm sure Leo Etherly said that during his arrest and jail time for assault…. and the time he was arrested for domestic violence….and the arrest for lewd behavior. He probably said it in all of his 14 court appearances in 3 counties in the past two years as well.
Chris Rock has a pretty easy to understand video on how not to get smacked around by the police:
tinyurl.com/bpokbu4
60
As someone who's done police liaison work during marches and demonstrations, I've dealt with all three of these cops. Cop #1 is generally watchful, tense and a man of few words. The Asian cop is generally pretty reasonable. Cop #3 is a pig of the worst sort - arrogant, hot headed, violent and views civilians as filth to washed from the streets. Pretty sure he idolizes Travis Bickle.
59
@57 -- It sounds as if the registration on the white mercedes van matches someone who did not fit the suspect's description. The first police officer escalates his interrogation upon dispatch returning this information.
I am willing to assume the police had cause to believe this suspect was somehow associated with a vehicle seen leaving the scene of a crime.
I am willing to assume the police had cause to believe this suspect was somehow associated with a vehicle seen leaving the scene of a crime.
58
I wonder if any of the arm-chair lawyers / police critics posting comments would care to describe how they would handle this situation.
For the sake of this exercise, please consider the police had cause to detain the suspect. Also please consider the suspect successfully spit into the arresting officer's face.
For the sake of this exercise, please consider the police had cause to detain the suspect. Also please consider the suspect successfully spit into the arresting officer's face.
57
@54 "I'd rather have the police doing good things like police do most often rather than have Etherly running about doing what ever the hell he likes with no ramifications."
What exactly did the guy do that requires there to be "ramifications?"
The guy is walking through a parking lot (2:04), goes to talk to some people at a bus stop, the cops come up and he follows them to their car (2:26) lets Cop #1 frisk him, and he answers their questions relevant to their investigation ("I didn't get out of no white van."). He stood "in the position" for about a minute / minute and a half, putting his hand back down on the hood when Cop #1 asks him to, then moves to go sit on the bumper once they stop talking to him (4:03). Cop #2 grabs his wrist (off camera 4:10) and he shakes it off saying what sounds like "I didn't do anything, alright?". They ask him to sit on the bumper and he does. So Cop #3 runs up at 4:17, he give Cop #3 lip ("What are you gonna do, knock me out?") and Cop #3 asks his name, he declines and says, "What's your name?" (4:26).
Now how exactly is this "running about doing what ever the hell he likes?"
What exactly did the guy do that requires there to be "ramifications?"
The guy is walking through a parking lot (2:04), goes to talk to some people at a bus stop, the cops come up and he follows them to their car (2:26) lets Cop #1 frisk him, and he answers their questions relevant to their investigation ("I didn't get out of no white van."). He stood "in the position" for about a minute / minute and a half, putting his hand back down on the hood when Cop #1 asks him to, then moves to go sit on the bumper once they stop talking to him (4:03). Cop #2 grabs his wrist (off camera 4:10) and he shakes it off saying what sounds like "I didn't do anything, alright?". They ask him to sit on the bumper and he does. So Cop #3 runs up at 4:17, he give Cop #3 lip ("What are you gonna do, knock me out?") and Cop #3 asks his name, he declines and says, "What's your name?" (4:26).
Now how exactly is this "running about doing what ever the hell he likes?"
56
@50 the mayor's office was the problem here too. The progressive, green, bike riding, touchy feelie mayor.
55
The video clearly demonstrates that lack of control the officers had over themselves and the situation. They took every opportunity to escalate. That is the mark of people who like to hand out the beat-downs and protect themselves legally.
The officers in this video, and many others, and the SPOG have no interest in serving the public, but only the self serving interests of their group. This is sport to them. They find their little justification and rationalization, enough to sow doubt in the press, and there you have it.
The police are supposed to be the professionals, are supposed to de-escalate, not let a situation get so far out of control to the point where the citizen's injury (or death) is inevitable, while they hide behind a neato labor relations clause in their contract that the city doesn't have the balls to change.
They are one of the highest paid forces in the country, yet they behave like two-bit redneck suburban rent a cops. Pathetic.
The officers in this video, and many others, and the SPOG have no interest in serving the public, but only the self serving interests of their group. This is sport to them. They find their little justification and rationalization, enough to sow doubt in the press, and there you have it.
The police are supposed to be the professionals, are supposed to de-escalate, not let a situation get so far out of control to the point where the citizen's injury (or death) is inevitable, while they hide behind a neato labor relations clause in their contract that the city doesn't have the balls to change.
They are one of the highest paid forces in the country, yet they behave like two-bit redneck suburban rent a cops. Pathetic.
54
This whole thing is like a bad bad marriage. The police know Etherly and Etherly knows the police. One eggs the other, the other eggs back. Etherly probably goes out of his way to be un-civil and the police go out of their way to find Etherly. No one wants to back down. But given a choice, I'd rather have the police doing good things like police do most often rather than have Etherly running about doing what ever the hell he likes with no ramifications. I do not for one minute think the Police woke up and decided to beat up on some Black guy just because it was a sunny day.
53
Not as bad as described but still bad.
1) Lack of probable cause is not grounds to resist arrest. I am not sure the video really tells us one way or the other on that as we don't know what other information the cops had.
2) He pretty clearly resisted and spit at the cop. They had grounds to be forceful with him over that. Initially the cops were simply restraining him to cuff him and he was fighting them.
3) There was zero reason to punch the guy. The cop got made and hit the guy. Kind of understandable when you've just been spit on, but a cop should be able to control himself and if he can't then he should not be a cop.
1) Lack of probable cause is not grounds to resist arrest. I am not sure the video really tells us one way or the other on that as we don't know what other information the cops had.
2) He pretty clearly resisted and spit at the cop. They had grounds to be forceful with him over that. Initially the cops were simply restraining him to cuff him and he was fighting them.
3) There was zero reason to punch the guy. The cop got made and hit the guy. Kind of understandable when you've just been spit on, but a cop should be able to control himself and if he can't then he should not be a cop.
52
#31 expressed my thoughts as I watched completely but also #38's cops escalated - Cops escalated this situation - just my gut reaction is that the cops turned this into a bigger situation - than it needed to be. EMS looking pretty calm and under control though.
51
Watched the crux moments a few times. I don't think he was choked, or only for a moment at most. You can see the cop actually opening and raising his fingers so as not to cover his mouth and nose too much. The spitting looked deliberate to me; that's an assault, officers shouldn't have to put up with being spit on as they do their jobs. Comes down to what is the appropriate response. I'd imagine it is legitimate to use some force to prevent further spitting. That was a hard shot, though....
Didn't watch the beginning, won't comment on cause to arrest.
Didn't watch the beginning, won't comment on cause to arrest.
50
@40 - @36 is an SPD shill that has been preemptively slandering the agrieved party since the moment this landed on Slog, so consider the source.
From what I saw in the video, there was no probable cause to arrest the suspect. Once the determination was made to arrest him, and they instructed him to put his hands behind his back, I'm not sure that the opportunity was given to the suspect to comply, and their force at that point became excessive in my mind. He may not have been agreeable up until that point, but he did seem to be reluctantly compliant with their instructions.
I would prefer not to continue paying the salary of the 3rd cop to arrive on the scene, his punch in the face to the suspect was far more than he needed to do to apprehend the suspect, who again, should not have been arrested based upon what we know.
The other two should be reprimanded.
The suspect should be compensated for his injuries, and civil actions against the 3rd officer should be entertained by the suspect.
All that being said, this is hardly of the level that we have seen before here in Seattle and beyond. Perhaps we are becoming softened to the "police brutality videos", and what would have been outlandish 10 or 20 years ago is now "routine" to us. Cops have tough jobs. I have good friends that are cops, and recognize that the vast majority of them are good people and citizens. They do their jobs well, and they don't overreact like officer 3 in the video.
The real question to me, though, is why was the SPD so reluctant to release this? They allowed a situation to fester, and it turned into something much more explosive and public than it would likely have been if they had just released it (or allowed Egan to).
More...
From what I saw in the video, there was no probable cause to arrest the suspect. Once the determination was made to arrest him, and they instructed him to put his hands behind his back, I'm not sure that the opportunity was given to the suspect to comply, and their force at that point became excessive in my mind. He may not have been agreeable up until that point, but he did seem to be reluctantly compliant with their instructions.
I would prefer not to continue paying the salary of the 3rd cop to arrive on the scene, his punch in the face to the suspect was far more than he needed to do to apprehend the suspect, who again, should not have been arrested based upon what we know.
The other two should be reprimanded.
The suspect should be compensated for his injuries, and civil actions against the 3rd officer should be entertained by the suspect.
All that being said, this is hardly of the level that we have seen before here in Seattle and beyond. Perhaps we are becoming softened to the "police brutality videos", and what would have been outlandish 10 or 20 years ago is now "routine" to us. Cops have tough jobs. I have good friends that are cops, and recognize that the vast majority of them are good people and citizens. They do their jobs well, and they don't overreact like officer 3 in the video.
The real question to me, though, is why was the SPD so reluctant to release this? They allowed a situation to fester, and it turned into something much more explosive and public than it would likely have been if they had just released it (or allowed Egan to).
49
Excessive force? What excessive force?
They didn't kill the guy then burn his car down by the levee did they? what is the problem, all y'all?
They didn't kill the guy then burn his car down by the levee did they? what is the problem, all y'all?
48
For those of you sticking up for the cops, let me remind you that in nearly every city in America, the police force have been able to do their job w/o prompting a fucking investigation by the bloody Department of Justice and found out that there is a pattern of racism and brutality.
Why is that so hard to grasp for you? The SPD is incompetent, from hiring to training to execution to leadership. They've actually proved this! By the fucking FEDS! Yes, yes, they couched it in nice language, so those poor cops widdle fee-fees don't get hurt, but that's what it basically amounts to.
Why is that so hard to grasp for you? The SPD is incompetent, from hiring to training to execution to leadership. They've actually proved this! By the fucking FEDS! Yes, yes, they couched it in nice language, so those poor cops widdle fee-fees don't get hurt, but that's what it basically amounts to.
47
That the good citizens of Seattle sit idly by and let the do-nothing mayor and the SPD continue their war on the citizenry is also a travesty.
45
Like yeah. I mean, they didn't do him to the back of the head execution style, so the outcome is debatable. Your empathy and indignation should not be a factor here.
44
My jaw hit the floor when they walked up to the guy, grabbed him and detained him. For nothing. For being black?
Everything after that just compounds it. None of those cops should ever work again.
Everything after that just compounds it. None of those cops should ever work again.
43
This is absolutely disgusting, but even worse is those of you defending the cop's actions. Refusing to give your name shouldn't escalate to being choked and handcuffed. Getting spit in your face does not equal a punch to the face. This cop isn't able to think on his feet and should not be a member of the SPD. But with the way things are currently, he'll probably get paid leave and a free ham.
42
@33 you think this shit doesn't happen to white people? Get real.
Overall not too bad, but definitely unprofessional. This situation could have easily been deescalated if one of the cops decided to not treat him like a fucking animal. But they kept ratcheting it up until they got what they wanted.
These fucking morons need to be taught how to deal with people.
Overall not too bad, but definitely unprofessional. This situation could have easily been deescalated if one of the cops decided to not treat him like a fucking animal. But they kept ratcheting it up until they got what they wanted.
These fucking morons need to be taught how to deal with people.
41
All of them should be fired. The one who went apeshit, and the other two who just stood by and let it happen AND HELPED HIM. Fuck the SPD and Mike McGinn for this shit.
40
@36,
"Career criminal" ? -- the cops didn't even know who he was
"Drives a white van" ? -- the cops didn't even know whether he had gotten out of that white van
Must be nice for you guys to discover these things after making a violent arrest. But you can't turn around and say that they somehow justified the arrest when they weren't known to the cops on the scene at the time.
(That whole "the law no hindsight bias" thing? it cuts both ways.)
"Career criminal" ? -- the cops didn't even know who he was
"Drives a white van" ? -- the cops didn't even know whether he had gotten out of that white van
Must be nice for you guys to discover these things after making a violent arrest. But you can't turn around and say that they somehow justified the arrest when they weren't known to the cops on the scene at the time.
(That whole "the law no hindsight bias" thing? it cuts both ways.)
39
@ 25; "But you are right, you never try to cuff someone before you have them under physical control." here a bunch of cops recently peppersprayed, assaulted with a longbaton (which are about a 1.5 long and can break your skull with one blow) and kneed some guy to drunk to stand in the face and groin... (video of part of the incident here: http://www.urbancontrol.nl/videos/15432.…) they got off beacause the internal police conduct commision ruled it justifiable defence. "how that?" you ask?, well you see they did a piss poor job handcuffing him so they only cuffed him on one wrist and then he was waiving his arm around (he was pissed drunk remember and also Polish so he couldnt understand what they wanted from him) and this heavy metal object being waved arround presented apperently a clear and pressent danger do the cops (who gave him the "weapon" on the first place by bungeling up the handcuffing)...
38
Nine times out of ten, I come down on the side of cops. They have an extraordinarily difficult job, seeing the worst of humanity, and always under a threat of assault or death. They aren't paid enough and aren't trained nearly well enough.
But this? I can't believe some of the comments I am reading. This is despicable. This is a guy who was questioned for a hit and run (a charge that was eventually DISMISSED AT ARRAIGNMENT, which means it was paper thin), and the cops escalated this into an arrest and an assault.
I am stunned that this is happening in the shadow of the DOJ investigation. And stunned that anyone would think this was okay or justified.
But this? I can't believe some of the comments I am reading. This is despicable. This is a guy who was questioned for a hit and run (a charge that was eventually DISMISSED AT ARRAIGNMENT, which means it was paper thin), and the cops escalated this into an arrest and an assault.
I am stunned that this is happening in the shadow of the DOJ investigation. And stunned that anyone would think this was okay or justified.
36
That's it? This is Egan/SLog's big blockbuster Rodney King special? Career criminal, who matches description of man who hit a cyclist, who drives a white van matching description of van that hit a cyclist, refuses to give name, resists being lawfully cuffed and then spits in cops face?
Boo-fucking-hoo.
Give him $50 credit towards his next court case, which judging by his rap sheet won't be long from now.
Boo-fucking-hoo.
Give him $50 credit towards his next court case, which judging by his rap sheet won't be long from now.
34
@33 which is why our prisons are filled with innocent people who just happen not to be white and rich.
32
@28 true, but being right and being shot to death because the cops feel like it are two different things.
They have that option. We don't. We're serfs.
They have that option. We don't. We're serfs.
31
Violence aside, if I understand this video correctly:
SPD walk up to a guy standing at a bus stop and ask if he just got out of a van. The guy says he didn't. They ask him his name. He doesn't give it. They arrest him.
Is that really all it takes to get arrested in this town?
SPD walk up to a guy standing at a bus stop and ask if he just got out of a van. The guy says he didn't. They ask him his name. He doesn't give it. They arrest him.
Is that really all it takes to get arrested in this town?
28
What legal justification did they even have for cuffing him? I thought in Washington we had no legal obligation to identify ourselves if not arrested for a crime and if not driving?
27
Yes, he was resisting arrest. No, choking him and punching him in the eye is not an appropriate response. And cop #3 has a clear case of poor anger management, maybe 'roid rage? He definitely escalated the situation.
26
everything is fine (but tense) until 3rd cop shows up employs force and punches the suspect for a perceived slight.
3rd cop is wrong, fire him.
pay suspect X dollars for being blinded.
move on to next misuse of force by SPD. . .
3rd cop is wrong, fire him.
pay suspect X dollars for being blinded.
move on to next misuse of force by SPD. . .
25
@16 I'd totally agree with you there. It was absolutely sloppy and bad technique. Whether or not it rises to the level of excessive force is debatable. But you are right, you never try to cuff someone before you have them under physical control. And ya, the aggressive cop does seem like a hothead. Should probably be disciplined, maybe even fired. But this isn't like the KCSO Matthew Paul who body checked Christopher Harris into the wall of Cinerama and paralyzed him for life. How Paul wasn't prosecuted for clearly excessive force is beyond me. I'll come down on cops when it's called for. Being a cop is tough, on one hand you have to be aggressive and take control of a scene or else it can get out of hand fast or invite assault. But on the other side of the coin, you have to know when to be cool as a cop and not react when provoked.
23
Car audio and loud radio traffic is on the left audio channel while the body mic. is on the right audio channel. If you want to hear the post incident dialog between the cops fade your balance over to the right.
It looks like a case of playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes but I think we all expect better from our police department.
It looks like a case of playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes but I think we all expect better from our police department.
21
It's no Rodney King, but the police were out of line. He was resisting arrest, but passively. He didn't attempt to strike any of the officers, so they had no cause to strike him.
Also, zero probable cause.
Also, zero probable cause.
20
One of the things I get from this is that the SPD has no respect for the DOJ lawsuit. They knew they'd been investigated, judged, and found wanting. What is their response? Business as usual. We can argue about "how bad" this is, but for me that's just silly hair-splitting. If the SPD understood the charges against them, they'd be on their best behavior. These cops know they're being taped, and they simply don't care.
Conclusion: the SPD are not an entity to be reasoned with. They have no self-awareness and either are refusing to or are incapable of understanding that their actions are unacceptable and to account for them. It may be impractical to dismantle the organization entirely and build from the ground up, but that is where the discussion needs to start.
Conclusion: the SPD are not an entity to be reasoned with. They have no self-awareness and either are refusing to or are incapable of understanding that their actions are unacceptable and to account for them. It may be impractical to dismantle the organization entirely and build from the ground up, but that is where the discussion needs to start.
19
This whole thing could have been avoided.. had he just taken Chris Rock's advice...
http://youtu.be/uj0mtxXEGE8
http://youtu.be/uj0mtxXEGE8
18
@14 You know, I really do think it's debatable whether or not that was deliberate.
In the seconds leading up to the punch, officer #3
- briefly choked Everly (you can clearly see the hand around the throat) and
- had his hand pushing down on Everly's face, covering his mouth and nose.
To me it looks like he couldn't breathe. I don't know if you've ever been around a person whose airways are being constricted, but some spittle when they do get some air is not unusual or questionable.
In the seconds leading up to the punch, officer #3
- briefly choked Everly (you can clearly see the hand around the throat) and
- had his hand pushing down on Everly's face, covering his mouth and nose.
To me it looks like he couldn't breathe. I don't know if you've ever been around a person whose airways are being constricted, but some spittle when they do get some air is not unusual or questionable.
16
I was a law enforcement officer for a while and we were taught never to handcuff a subject while they face you.
It shows to me that their professionalism needs some work.
The third officer to the scene should be let go. He obviously cant handle authority the public trusts him with.
Also he choked him with an open cuff?? That could be construed to be deadly force, sloppy to say the least..
It shows to me that their professionalism needs some work.
The third officer to the scene should be let go. He obviously cant handle authority the public trusts him with.
Also he choked him with an open cuff?? That could be construed to be deadly force, sloppy to say the least..
15
Hernandez, you are correct. But why was he resisting. Clearly he was trying to prevent the police from bring his arms around. Sorry, he'll get a settlement for the punch but he was being combative from the start. Brushing off the cops arm as he sat down etc. I agree that the cops were idiots and thugs and seemed to be overly aggressive - but again. Let the cops cuff you. Sort it out later.
14
Is everyone just conveniently overlooking the fact that Everyly spit in the officer's face immediately before the punch?
13
Amazed at some of the comments here. The guys arms were pinned down - by 2 cops. Cop # 3 punches him in the face. How is this justified?
11
hmmmmmmm. Let me see. Was he punched BEFORE or AFTER he was resisting being cuffed? I said that I didn't think the forearm punch was necessary. Just like I don't think it was necessary that the suspect was resisting being cuffed. @4, I'm guessing you would always under all circumstances assume that you should resist arrest? How should the suspect behaved in this situation? Are you suggesting that he was correct in fighting off being cuffed?
10
@3 Huh is right. What video were you watching exactly?
The third character to enter the frame there (the primary protagonist) pretty clearly has no business being armed and wearing a badge.
The third character to enter the frame there (the primary protagonist) pretty clearly has no business being armed and wearing a badge.
9
meh i was expecting worse... the cop seemed to have an open palm most of the time on the guy's face.. I was relentlessness in my criticism of Ian Burke but this isn't on that level or a Rodney King. They guy was clearly combative. Probably should have just pepper sprayed him, would have looked nicer on camera. The primary cop seemed verbally aggressive which probably antagonized the guy even more but the suspect looked like he was going to fight/resist regardless.
7
I wanted this to be really damning. I wanted this to be everything Egan claimed. Instead it looks a lot more like a dipshit acting stupid and some cops acting like cops, which is to say acting like Tackleberry from the Police Academy movies.
6
Hmm. So at 4:26, Etherly refuses to give his name, and Faust makes the decision to arrest him.
#1, the cops didn't know who they were arresting. So much for the "he had a rap sheet as long as my arm" talk, that's just a convenient excuse established after the fact.
#2, where's the probable cause to initiate the arrest? Etherly's refusal to give his name is not a crime, since this was an investigative stop, not a traffic stop.
#1, the cops didn't know who they were arresting. So much for the "he had a rap sheet as long as my arm" talk, that's just a convenient excuse established after the fact.
#2, where's the probable cause to initiate the arrest? Etherly's refusal to give his name is not a crime, since this was an investigative stop, not a traffic stop.
5
Well, that looked TOTALLY justified when the cop punched him in the face for no apparent reason.
[/idiocy]
[/idiocy]
4
@3. The SPD and people like you always look for the excuse to look the other way. Maybe they should have just shot him outright?
3
huh, looks like he was resisting arrest pretty clearly. Not saying the punch was warranted but it is very clear that he wasn't allowing the cops to put the cuffs on.
Rule #1; if the cops go to cuff you, let them. You will always lose otherwise.
Rule #1; if the cops go to cuff you, let them. You will always lose otherwise.
2
Mike McGinn doesn't control the police department as the civil authority empowers him to do so. In fact, he covers for them. He lies and obfuscates for the, How does that make you feel? Progressive? This is the price you paid for your road diets and his lavishing gifts on Seattle's local NGO scene. Have a nice day.
1
Ironically (to me), it turns out that my apartment window is in the foreground of the video's first frame.
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