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News & ArtsWednesday, November 21, 2012
Animals The Survivalist Who Didn't Survive
Posted by Charles Mudede on Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:04 AM
ADN:
State troopers are searching for a missing survivalist who set out alone in the Northwest Alaska wilderness in late September.The missing man is Thomas Seibold, a Wisconsin resident and an instructor at the Talking Drum Outdoor School, said troopers, who were still looking for Seibold, 31, as of nightfall Saturday.
A traveling companion on the Ambler River last saw Seibold, described as an experienced outdoorsman, in late September. He had planned to stay in the backcountry through October and had booked a flight home to Wisconsin on Nov. 15, according to troopers spokeswoman Beth Ipsen.
"He didn't make that flight," Ipsen said.
Why do we play these games with nature? We are not like bears or orangutans; we are hyper-social animals. There is no kind of survival for us outside of the human community. There is no such thing as a survivalist beyond the magic circle of human sociality. Leaving our nature and entering all of nature is only madness. Know who your are, human: Not homo homini lupus est but homo homini Deus est.
The tip came from Carole M. Triem.
1
So he committed suicide. We can hope he had a little fun and adventure before his cold, sleepy death. I hope it wasn't violent or painful and I hope other animals enjoyed some easy meat before he was frozen solid.
"Why do we play these games with nature?"
"We" don't. *He* did; some people do. His life, his right. I'm sure he didn't expect the rest of us to go looking for him.
"Leaving our nature and entering all of nature is only madness."
*eyeroll*
"Why do we play these games with nature?"
"We" don't. *He* did; some people do. His life, his right. I'm sure he didn't expect the rest of us to go looking for him.
"Leaving our nature and entering all of nature is only madness."
*eyeroll*
2
Survivalists don't really survive "outside of the human community," at least not in the permanent way your statement expresses. This journey was intended to be temporary. Or were you trying to say that doing this for even just six weeks is impossible?
3
Yeah, yeah, what 1 & 2 said. Also, I'd argue that one of the unique and wonderful things about being human is the desire and capability to explore outside of our territorial comfort zone. And surely doing so helped us (or at least our ancestors) to evolve and develop adaptive features that make us who/what we are. This guy didn't fare so well, but that shouldn't necessarily deter the rest of us.
4
Humans do not live in our ecosystem, we live on our ecosystem. Like colonists (or colonial powers, to put it in language that will resonate with Mr. Mudede).
This man's attempt to live as part of nature, red in tooth and claw, invited risks we are not well-adapted to withstand.
This man's attempt to live as part of nature, red in tooth and claw, invited risks we are not well-adapted to withstand.
7
Or better yet, try a little Conrad.
The heart of darkness is not Alaska, it's the Bronx.
How many people died a violent death in the Alaskan wilderness this year?
How many died a violent death in the Bronx?
Your hyper-socialism helps you forget that the greatest danger to man is man. Forays into nature help us understand our place as individual members of nature.
The heart of darkness is not Alaska, it's the Bronx.
How many people died a violent death in the Alaskan wilderness this year?
How many died a violent death in the Bronx?
Your hyper-socialism helps you forget that the greatest danger to man is man. Forays into nature help us understand our place as individual members of nature.
8
Charles, do you ever play role-playing games? I would heartily suggest checking out Paranoia.. .you might like it. It's a damn funny game, & fun to play Here's is the relevant quote from the write up:
The Computer serves as the game's principal antagonist, and fears a number of threats to its 'perfect' society, such as The Outdoors [...].
The Computer serves as the game's principal antagonist, and fears a number of threats to its 'perfect' society, such as The Outdoors [...].
9
I'm sure it was just that he heard the election results, and couldn't bear to return to the world of Obama-2nd-term. Not a lot of his ilk were Obama voters, methinks.
10
Oh, more to the sense of the original posting: People often go out into the "Nature" in order to clear their head from the "noise" of living with other people all the time. Consider it like meditation. It's a form of meditation, reverence and worship. As mt@7 says, time away --getting outside of one's norms-- help us see ourselves and other people with different eyes, and therefore more clearly. You should know this Charles: The ascetic and the hermit have well-known places in human culture.
Also it can be a test of one's self... like running a marathon, or climbing Everest, ... heading out into raw Nature develops skills, hones senses dulled by workaday concerns.
Also it can be a test of one's self... like running a marathon, or climbing Everest, ... heading out into raw Nature develops skills, hones senses dulled by workaday concerns.
12
or you could get shot and killed on a popular, nearby hiking trail by a teenager who thinks you're a bear. or by a sartre-inspired serial killer. both of these happened in the last 10 years here on the wet side. and worse.
homo homini lupus est, indeed.
homo homini lupus est, indeed.
13
Here's the correct link to the story.
@1: There's no mention of suicidal thoughts or depression. Highly unlikely that happened.
@1: There's no mention of suicidal thoughts or depression. Highly unlikely that happened.
15
@7, what's the weather like back there in 1979? The Bronx isn't even on the leaderboard for violent deaths anymore. For that, you need to go to New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit. The Bronx is about level with Minneapolis these days.
17
@7 Can you substitute the Bronx with New Orleans, St Louis, Detroit or Baltimore. It would make me happy. Thanks.
18
We need to set up a special screening of the film "Grizzly Man" with Charles adding running commentary throughout the movie, Schmader style.
19
I'm guessing that you haven't done any camping or hiking in your life, Mudede. If you had, you might at least understand the mindset. For someone who is always trying to expand his perceptions, you seem awfully narrow minded when it comes to nature.
23
It's not a game, it's a learning process about yourself and many things around you. All of which make us better suited to live in society.
24
You go wandering off by yourself in Alaska and don't come back, I'll feel bad for your friends and family and for the people who have to go out looking for your sorry ass. I will not feel bad for you.
25
What @19 said. Charles, it's one thing to prefer an urban life, but another to label someone "insane" for desiring some solitude from urban life. Since I also assume that you have never spent any time alone in the wilderness (or maybe even in a tent with friends), I don't think you have any authority on the subject. He wasn't trying to live the rest of his life out there, he was pursuing a short-term adventure. Consider too, that perhaps he was searching for solitude from recent human creations like noise and lights, instead of humans themselves. Is that insane?
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