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Monday, November 19, 2012

Two of the Three Fronts in the Current Israeli/Palestinian War Are Virtual

Posted by on Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 3:20 PM

CNN:

The Israeli government on Sunday said it has been hit with more than 44 million cyberattacks since it began aerial strikes on Gaza last week. Anonymous, the hacker collective, claimed responsibility for taking down some sites and leaking passwords because of what it calls Israel's "barbaric, brutal and despicable treatment" of Palestinians.
"The war is being fought on three fronts," Carmela Avner, Israel's chief information officer, said on Sunday in a press release. "The first is physical, the second is the world of social networks and the third is cyberattacks.

...A page associated with Anonymous also posted a new threat: "November 2012 will be a month to remember for the (Israel Defense Forces) and Internet security forces. Israeli Gov. this is/will turn into a cyberwar.


If you want to learn more about Anonymous, checkout the highly recommended doc We Are Legion, which is screening at SIFF this week. If you want to support a local business that doesn't hide its support for the Palestinian cause, then visit Aladdin Gyrocery in the UD...
tempimage.jpg

Not only is Aladdin's politics agreeable (the sign in the photo reads: Free Palestine) but it also makes the best gyro's in town.

 

Comments (46) RSS

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46
Now I see why everyone likes Mr. Gyro's! It always helps to have a bunch of cute guys behind the counter (and the falafel is tasty).
Posted by nifty on November 24, 2012 at 1:48 PM · Report this
45
Worthwhile column about the recent escalation by Gershon Baskin, the Israeli academic who was a go-between during negotiations for the release of soldier Gilad Shalit: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20…
Posted by anon1256 on November 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM · Report this
44
I also love this video of a British Jewish parliamentarian, who says
'My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers who kill Palestinian grandmothers'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6C…
Posted by fahima on November 22, 2012 at 3:41 AM · Report this
43
This is for anyone who thinks Israel's latest attacks were in re: some Hamas/other rockets:
From an Israeli guy actually, which is great cause you can't find a PC way to swear at him :)
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/16/a…

Also, the following for anyone who so far thinks it's an Israeli-Palestinian 'conflict' but may be intelligent enough to be persuaded into reading around a little bit (Although like any other critic of Israel he has been villified enough: the other side of freedom of speech, 'if you can't ban them, make them irrelevant'). Here:

"The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace.

The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.

Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command [and] control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.

When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense."
(Noam Chomsky, ZNet)
More...
Posted by fahima on November 21, 2012 at 11:44 AM · Report this
42
to those claiming israel's force is disproportionate:

the terrorists killed 19 on an israeli bus. so now do you admit israel can go kill 19 ? that's what your logic suggests.

in fact, the rule of law about proportional force does not require equal numbers of deaths. it requires that force be justified, as in, you can't use it aggressively, as hamas does. second, if it's defensive it must be proportional to the threat -- not to the success or lack of success. since hamas poses a threat of death to israelis, and other daily harm from their rocket attacks which no didn't start november 8th but have been going on all year about 800 in total, then israel can use lethal force includilng some collateral damage if hamas causes it by locating amongst civilians. the next rule of proportional self defense is, once you eliminate the threat you stop; you don't get an even number of deaths. thus USSR had to stop fighting germany when USSR won and was not allowed to go kill 20 million germans.

hamas can end this violence at any moment, and should. also, the blockade is against arms not food or all things, so it's tailored and proportional too. finally, to joke about gyros is basically snobbish, sick, and avoidant of the political realities here; the worst form of faux hipster faux urbanism which simply masks the underlying ignorance, banality and smugness many faux progressives show on the mideast issues or use of force generally. I guarantee you if the rockets were hitting in your neighborhood, you'd be in favor of a forceful response.
Posted by moral imbalance justifies force on November 21, 2012 at 10:41 AM · Report this
41
@40, you can't be as stupid as you sound. But then again...
Posted by sarah70 on November 20, 2012 at 6:08 PM · Report this
40
@38, Actually, you pulled Mexico and Canada lobbing rockets at the US out of your ass, not out of any history book.
Posted by anon1256 on November 20, 2012 at 3:57 PM · Report this
39
Americans decrying Isreals use of force to defend themselves is ridiculous. Shock and Awe campaign killed 6,000 plus Iraqi's, based on an assumption of nuclear weapons.
"This will continue until they love Thier children more than they hate us." Golda Meir
Posted by Fkhamas on November 20, 2012 at 3:40 PM · Report this
38
I wish people would read some history before they claim stuff. Anon1256, you could start it off, and then others could follow you.

Just in case you don't understand, history means what actually happened, and when, and I don't mean in November 2012, I mean from 1947 on, when the Arab nations refused the UN's offer of most of the property Israel has now, including the West Bank. So start there, and come back when you're finished.
Posted by sarah70 on November 20, 2012 at 3:03 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 37
@ 33, you're going back on your word @ 2, as well as pulling the philosopher's favorite tactic of putting words in people's mouths and setting up strawmen. Way to go!

Just go up there and give it a try. The worst that can happen is that you'll be out a few bucks, but that will come with the benefit of being able to lord it over everyone on Slog for their plebeian tastes.

@ 34 - well, now I'm confused. I think anon1256 understands that Gaza 2012 doesn't compare to Mexico 1846. So ... you agree with that too? Maybe I've misread something.
Posted by Matt from Denver on November 20, 2012 at 2:25 PM · Report this
36
@34, You aren't making any sense. There are many reasons why sarah70's comparison is bunk. The first of which is that nobody would expect Mexicans to lob projectiles over the US border for a land grab that occurred over 150 years ago, and didn't result in sustained asymmetric warfare and repression decades after the facts. Suit yourself not answering what I write if you think it makes you look good.
Posted by anon1256 on November 20, 2012 at 2:15 PM · Report this
DeaconBlues 35
aladdin is good. mr. gyros is also good. they're a totally different style, though.

(and for the record, mr. gyros is cheap, charles)
Posted by DeaconBlues http://radzillas.blogspot.com/ on November 20, 2012 at 1:25 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 34
@32,

No kidding. Do you think anon1256 understands that? The ignorant motherfucker probably thinks Israel has been controlling Gaza and the West Bank since 1948.
Posted by keshmeshi on November 20, 2012 at 1:24 PM · Report this
Charles Mudede 33
so many aladdin haters in seattle. what's up with that? i have never had a bad gyro there. they were the first to do it right in seattle. and it only cost $5 bucks! im sure that place in greenwood is going to ask for an arm and leg.
Posted by Charles Mudede on November 20, 2012 at 1:20 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 32
@ 29, there are more than a few differences between the Mexican-American war and what's happening today in Gaza. For example, most Mexicans living in Alta California and the area Texas and Mexico disputed were dispirited and offered the Americans little resistance, because their main problem was Apache and Navajo raids devastating their farms and ranches, and the Mexican government, which was as chaotic as any regime that's ever existed in this hemisphere, couldn't protect them.

Sure, the naked aggression and display of power have parallels with Israel and the Palestinians, but not nearly enough to make the comparison started upthread valid.
Posted by Matt from Denver on November 20, 2012 at 12:47 PM · Report this
31
@20 and 21 - The argument that Hamas firing rockets into Israeli territory somehow justifies Israel's indiscriminate and disproportional attack on Gazan civillians ignores the facts about the conflict. The very point of my post was to establish that the Hamas rockets were not unprovoked.. In this particular escalation Israeli attacks have been killing Gazan civilians since Novemeber 8th, days before the Hamas rockets. To say that Israel is just retaliating, and Hamas just decided to rain down rockets unprovoked is not supported by the facts.
Also, your logic would indicate that it would be fair for Pakistan and Yemen to attack America to retaliate against the drone attacks being carried out in their sovereign territory. Why this awful double standard? How come the only country to use nuclear weapon, and to initiate the morally bankrupt war in Iraq gets a free pass? Is it because your white skin is worth more than my brown skin?
Posted by subaltern on November 20, 2012 at 12:24 PM · Report this
30
@29, Land grabbing in the American SW isn't on-going even if we can still see the sequels of it. Nor is someone currently making Mexico some kind of giant internment camp.
Posted by anon1256 on November 20, 2012 at 12:24 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 29
@27,

Have you ever heard of the American Southwest?
Posted by keshmeshi on November 20, 2012 at 11:59 AM · Report this
biju 28
Is there any place that uses Lebanese style flat bread (khoubiz/kuboos)? I despise the thick textured pita bread
Posted by biju on November 20, 2012 at 9:22 AM · Report this
27
@20, I am pretty sure that if we were still taking land away from Mexico or physically controlling Mexico's borders, some type of warfare would be involved. Your ignorance is simply staggering, yet here you are proudly displaying it for all to see.
Posted by anon1256 on November 20, 2012 at 7:13 AM · Report this
Cracker Jack 26
I'm sorry, Mid-East politics, yeah yeah....

When did the U District start getting reduced to "the UD"? This is unacceptable and must stop immediately.
Posted by Cracker Jack on November 20, 2012 at 6:59 AM · Report this
willendorf 25
I'll probably be sorry I put my $0.02 in, but:

I agree that Israel needs to get out of the occupied territories ASAP, and Bibi Netanyahu is a menace to all that is good. But it is also true that Hamas doesn't just want Israel out of the occupied territories. Hamas wants to destroy Israel entirely. They are very upfront about this. That makes it hard to negotiate with them.
Posted by willendorf on November 20, 2012 at 6:32 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 24
@23: It is not just about Gaza, but Israel's continued illegal subjugation and occupation of Palestinian lands. They are still capturing territory in the West Bank, and putting civilians there as human shields. They call them settlements.

Rockets are coming from Gaza because they are coming from Hamas. Hamas is fighting Israel's occupation of Palestine, it is not just about Gaza.
Posted by Theodore Gorath on November 20, 2012 at 4:30 AM · Report this
23
@21,

Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians, so I'm not understanding your comment. I don't understand why Palestinians think they can send rockets into Israel without any consequences.
Posted by Patricia Kayden on November 20, 2012 at 2:59 AM · Report this
22
Your comment re Mexico makes no sense.

Just how would Israel "end it" if Hamas continues sending rockets into Israel?
Posted by sarah70 on November 20, 2012 at 12:25 AM · Report this
seandr 21
@20: What would you suggest the US do if Mexico sent rockets into California and Arizona?

I would give Mexico back to them, and grant them statehood.

"Who started it?" is an impossible question to answer and a pointless question to ask. The question is, "Who will end it?", and I believe that only Israel is in a position to do that.
Posted by seandr on November 20, 2012 at 12:04 AM · Report this
20
Hamas has been sending rockets into Israel for 7+ years -- in fact, since Israel left Gaza. What would you suggest the US do if Mexico sent rockets into California and Arizona? Or Canada sent rockets into Washington?

Gyros are best at Costa's. They are Greek.
Posted by sarah70 on November 19, 2012 at 10:22 PM · Report this
Fnarf 19
No, no, no. Mr. Gyros all the way. There is no substitute. @15, you might be right, technically, I suppose, but I get itchy when I go above 80th, so I can't compare. I'll send Mrs. Fnarf to decide (but she is a great Mr. Gyros partisan).
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on November 19, 2012 at 10:13 PM · Report this
18
"Palestinians stands at 100, as reported by Reuters, including 24 children and 10 women. Out of these 53 were civilians. Israeli death toll still stands at, 3"

However, Israel didn't start the bombing of hamas, hamas started the bombing of israel. israel had no choice. hamas had a choice and started it. there is no morality in equal numbers of dead. the quote quoted suggests that now israel must sit and wait for 97 israelis to be killed. THEN, it would okay for israel to respond. this is crazy and evil logic where hamas started it and israel isn't dedicated to pushing gazans into the sea but hamas is dedicated topushing israel into the sea.

the rule of proportionality isn't you get to kill an equal number and no more. it's you get to use force roughly proportional to the threat. hamas in sending 750 rockets is posing a threat of having the next one kill 100 israelis if it lands in a crowded market. israel is allowed to MAKE them stop.
Posted by another way to belittle on November 19, 2012 at 9:06 PM · Report this
17
And make sure you get the fries at Mr Gyros. They sprinkle some herbs and feta cheese on them. Yum.
Posted by Heading Over There Right Now on November 19, 2012 at 7:56 PM · Report this
16
I did cherry pick that timeline about 100 rockets, BUT, Palestine has held an Israeli soldier for over three years now. Both sides have committed their fair share of war crimes. I cant be the only one who thinks this is all a set-up to trigger that silly December 2st 'armageddon' trash.
Posted by GeeJosh on November 19, 2012 at 6:43 PM · Report this
Joe Szilagyi 15
You are all wrong. The best gyro and Greek is Georgia's on NW 85th in Ballard. By far.
Posted by Joe Szilagyi http://twitter.com/joeszi on November 19, 2012 at 6:39 PM · Report this
14
#11 Actually, no. It is tricky to trace the escalation of current conflict in Gaza, but facts absolutely do not support your claim. A 12/13 year Palestinian boy was killed on Nov 8th while playing soccer. The three Israeli fatalities did not occur until Nov 15th, while there already had been several Palestine civilian fatalities between Nov 8th and Nov 15th. It is intellectually dishonest to ignore events surrounding the rocket fires from Hamas.
Emily Hauser has a diligently cited timeline on the Atlantic that you can consult for verification. Also, the current death toll for Palestinians stands at 100, as reported by Reuters, including 24 children and 10 women. Out of these 53 were civilians. Israeli death toll still stands at, 3, though one must not make light of the trauma suffered by Israeli pets: http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/dogs-w…
Posted by subaltern on November 19, 2012 at 6:30 PM · Report this
13
@11, and, what events preceded those of "in recent days"?

Cherry picking the start of the timeline to justify the bombing of civilians isn't very ethical, whatever your ideological point of view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PGnBmZSH…
Posted by anon1256 on November 19, 2012 at 6:14 PM · Report this
12
@Charles, I have never been more sure of anything in my life. Please issue a correction after you have tasted Mr. Gyros' gyros.
Posted by werdswerf on November 19, 2012 at 5:36 PM · Report this
11
Thanks #9, I hear Guy's is almost as bad as Aladdin's!! I also noticed Charles' silence on the matter.
But let me add this:
"The strikes were in retaliation for the launching of more than 100 rockets at Israel in recent days"
Posted by GeeJosh on November 19, 2012 at 5:25 PM · Report this
Norbeck 10
+1 for Mr. Gyro. Really, genuinely nice people too.
Posted by Norbeck on November 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM · Report this
9
@3, maybe that new Guy Fieri restaurant?
Posted by GermanSausage on November 19, 2012 at 5:00 PM · Report this
8
sad stale store bought pita bread. soggy-ish french fries. often re-heated falafel balls. Heck, I eat it too, because its there, but its hardly the best. too bad about Ali-baba on Broadway, at least they made fresh humus. the new place up near the Kraken kicks Aladdin's butt too.
Posted by soggydan on November 19, 2012 at 4:55 PM · Report this
7
@6 - Israel is 'bombing Hamas' and Palestinians are dying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSMEepWv…
Posted by anon1256 on November 19, 2012 at 4:50 PM · Report this
rob! 6
In other news, Israel is bombing Hamas. A pox on both their houses, plus Iran (the new longer-range missiles that can reach the outskirts of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are being supplied by Iran and smuggled in pieces [they weigh thousands of pounds each] through the tunnels from Egypt to Gaza, per NPR).
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on November 19, 2012 at 4:33 PM · Report this
5
ha ha hamas is rocketing israel, let's talk about gyros, ha ha. "Agreeable politics" yum, yum.

Posted by how to belittle death on November 19, 2012 at 4:24 PM · Report this
wisepunk 4
@1 is way right. It's what I came here to say. I'd even give you a ride to Greenwood to meet Sami and get a platter. It's a long ride from the CC.
Posted by wisepunk on November 19, 2012 at 4:20 PM · Report this
3
And whom do I support if I support Israel?
Posted by GeeJosh on November 19, 2012 at 4:20 PM · Report this
Charles Mudede 2
@1, you better be sure. I will check the truth of this.
Posted by Charles Mudede on November 19, 2012 at 4:17 PM · Report this
1
Incorrect. Mr. Gyros in Ballard/Greenwood makes the best gyros in town.
Posted by werdswerf on November 19, 2012 at 3:43 PM · Report this

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