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News & ArtsMonday, November 12, 2012
LGBTQITSLFA Don't Make Us Do It
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 2:28 PM
40
Ms Buffy - I think we're at cross purposes. I thought you were referring to letters from straight men married to straight women in monogamous sexless marriages, and meant some of THOSE women. I'm sure there are women in general of the sort you appear to mean who'd be happy to seek out a mixed-orientation marriage and who would be quite content to allow outside contacts, but the whole point of the SWIMSM (or at least a major one) of those particular letters being to enjoy or at least insist on the frustration of their husbands... I do wonder, though, which those women rank higher, the frustration of being in the wrong sort of marriage with no permitted outlet, or the frustration of being in the right sort of marriage but being completely shut down by a desired wife.
Then again, assuming its being due to good reasons rather than bad ones, wouldn't it be delightful to see the number of mixed-orientation marriages dwindle down to almost zero?
Then again, assuming its being due to good reasons rather than bad ones, wouldn't it be delightful to see the number of mixed-orientation marriages dwindle down to almost zero?
37
Look, the sketch stereotypes the hell out of straight men, too, and it's damned funny. There is space in comedy for taking a cliche or stereotype, holding it up unashamedly and letting everybody but everybody laugh at what results. (I'd draw your attention to the first few years of "Due South" as an example. The ghost of a mountie singing "Rose Marie"? classic.) And when somebody says, "it doesn't seem statistically possible, but it's true!" it's pretty much the best tipoff you're ever going to get of that kind of joke.
Besides, there isn't a straight man in here who didn't laugh at the bit about the gf telling the friends stuff that "you were supposed to inately know".
I thought it was funny until everyone started over analyzing it.This.
Look, the sketch stereotypes the hell out of straight men, too, and it's damned funny. There is space in comedy for taking a cliche or stereotype, holding it up unashamedly and letting everybody but everybody laugh at what results. (I'd draw your attention to the first few years of "Due South" as an example. The ghost of a mountie singing "Rose Marie"? classic.) And when somebody says, "it doesn't seem statistically possible, but it's true!" it's pretty much the best tipoff you're ever going to get of that kind of joke.
Besides, there isn't a straight man in here who didn't laugh at the bit about the gf telling the friends stuff that "you were supposed to inately know".
36
Mr JJ - If you like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing you like, but are you perhaps selling yourself short?
35
Ms Buffy - Are you missing the point? Going by the published letters, the whole point is that there would be no genuinely permitted/accepted/encouraged outside outlet.
34
Mr Knat - You seem basically okay; I'll give you an extra credit question - who ends the fabulous marriage?
If you liked the video because you think the vast preponderance of straight women resemble Ms D (and this post is not a negative reflection on her at all), you may need to practise your unpacking.
If you realized that the flaw of the video is that revenge would sustain the little sunshines only for about as long as a homicidal maniac could impersonate a kindly old vicar (according to Mr Beresford, about a week), you're sufficiently low in privilege for my diet. Like it anyway as much as you please.
As always, the mileage of others may vary.
If you liked the video because you think the vast preponderance of straight women resemble Ms D (and this post is not a negative reflection on her at all), you may need to practise your unpacking.
If you realized that the flaw of the video is that revenge would sustain the little sunshines only for about as long as a homicidal maniac could impersonate a kindly old vicar (according to Mr Beresford, about a week), you're sufficiently low in privilege for my diet. Like it anyway as much as you please.
As always, the mileage of others may vary.
33
Seriously it's a from college humor. Why the fuck is anyone bitching about stereotypes. Take the stick out and enjoy it.
I laughed.
I laughed.
32
It was sorta funny but honestly, most of the humor we have seen before so I wouldn't call it edgy or that creative.
And yeah, I am a little sick of the sterotypes but there are more than a few gay bois on Capitol Hill that easily qualify. Hell..I'd go with a majority.
But MY idea of a hilarious take on sterotypes would be the amazing You Tube show call "Husbands". It's a much funnier version of "The New Normal" except with better writing and better acting.
And yeah, I am a little sick of the sterotypes but there are more than a few gay bois on Capitol Hill that easily qualify. Hell..I'd go with a majority.
But MY idea of a hilarious take on sterotypes would be the amazing You Tube show call "Husbands". It's a much funnier version of "The New Normal" except with better writing and better acting.
31
I'm feeling smug. Liking crossdressers I get all that, plus the manly side of men, plus mindblowing, grateful sexual service.
28
Yes yes yes, I get that this is stereotypical gay. I get that. I get the political thing behind it. Thanks for the positive affirmation, I think.
Can I say to any straight person reading my comment, I have as much in common with these prissy queens as I do with Newt Gingrich.
As for any closet fags reading this, we are not all like this. We don't all spend our lives in gyms. Some of us are fat and not ripped and not brilliant prissy-pastry cooks (although I ain't pretty, but I can sure as hell can cook) and we don't sashay, but clunk from one place to another. If you are not turned on by this, please put yourself out there. Lots of "normal" gay folks out there who don't look like gym bunnies will be happy to show you a more than good time.
Don't be sucked in by the gay mafia, but the gay mafia are part of the struggle. Even if (IMO) not a very good ambassador.
Can I say to any straight person reading my comment, I have as much in common with these prissy queens as I do with Newt Gingrich.
As for any closet fags reading this, we are not all like this. We don't all spend our lives in gyms. Some of us are fat and not ripped and not brilliant prissy-pastry cooks (although I ain't pretty, but I can sure as hell can cook) and we don't sashay, but clunk from one place to another. If you are not turned on by this, please put yourself out there. Lots of "normal" gay folks out there who don't look like gym bunnies will be happy to show you a more than good time.
Don't be sucked in by the gay mafia, but the gay mafia are part of the struggle. Even if (IMO) not a very good ambassador.
27
@20 No keep laughing - I found it hilarious and yes its stereotypes (aimed at both gay men and straight women) and but if they had been stereotypes made to hurt us that would be different.
I'm gay (and married... to a man, the video was fun but not marching orders)
"internalized stereotypes"? :) Isn't that what hand-wringing upper middle class idiots keep blaming others for to prove how they are soooooo much better than everyone else?
(ok I'm not saying they are make-belief - just that we could just stop using the term and talk about social systems and normalized racism/sexism/homophobia just as easy without trying to make it an individual issue)
I'm gay (and married... to a man, the video was fun but not marching orders)
"internalized stereotypes"? :) Isn't that what hand-wringing upper middle class idiots keep blaming others for to prove how they are soooooo much better than everyone else?
(ok I'm not saying they are make-belief - just that we could just stop using the term and talk about social systems and normalized racism/sexism/homophobia just as easy without trying to make it an individual issue)
26
What many gay men want is for those sex-starved straight guys to start getting their needs met by them. Then sex-starved husbands can go home to their wives/kids and be happy.
Before religion, I suspect that's what we did in the tribe. Why homos & lesbians in evolution? Bleed off excess sex drive among the males, so the females could raise kids in peace, with 'aunts' to help out. The whole tribe wins. Sorry for off-topic- it's late.
Before religion, I suspect that's what we did in the tribe. Why homos & lesbians in evolution? Bleed off excess sex drive among the males, so the females could raise kids in peace, with 'aunts' to help out. The whole tribe wins. Sorry for off-topic- it's late.
25
@ 17
100% agree. Yes this video plays on stereotypes, (and no not all gay man are like this) but that is kind of the point isn't i? If you don't support marriage equality and generally promote a homophobic environment, well then the result will be scores of gay men scared into the closet trying to fit into a "heterosexual"l lifestyle which will likely include marrying some unwitting straight woman. This is just a humorous take on that circumstance.
Putting all that aside however, I couldn't help but think about the scores of letters that Dan has s published, from straight men in a monogamous sexless marriage to a presumably straight woman. I can't help but think that some women would not mind this arrangement of being married to a gay man (assuming the gay guy could have his fun elsewhere).
100% agree. Yes this video plays on stereotypes, (and no not all gay man are like this) but that is kind of the point isn't i? If you don't support marriage equality and generally promote a homophobic environment, well then the result will be scores of gay men scared into the closet trying to fit into a "heterosexual"l lifestyle which will likely include marrying some unwitting straight woman. This is just a humorous take on that circumstance.
Putting all that aside however, I couldn't help but think about the scores of letters that Dan has s published, from straight men in a monogamous sexless marriage to a presumably straight woman. I can't help but think that some women would not mind this arrangement of being married to a gay man (assuming the gay guy could have his fun elsewhere).
24
Subtract stereotypes & self-awareness....and you have some of the reasons that gay men have been marrying straight women all along. So many of the ultra-conservatives who are in a blind rage over marriage equality would not be too amused to have their daughter or son marry someone who was only trying to pass/meet with societal norms & expectations.
23
Okay- I've waited all week now.
Washington State is now the most LIBERAL state in the union, with both marriage equality AND legalized pot smoking.
HOORAY FOR LIBERAL WASHINGTON STATE!!!!
PS: I get the stereotypes, but still found the vid amusing. The butchest of gay men has a little something of these things peeking out if you only look carefully; never met one that didn't and I know more 'manly' queers than not anymore. Let's get over ourselves, shall we?
Washington State is now the most LIBERAL state in the union, with both marriage equality AND legalized pot smoking.
HOORAY FOR LIBERAL WASHINGTON STATE!!!!
PS: I get the stereotypes, but still found the vid amusing. The butchest of gay men has a little something of these things peeking out if you only look carefully; never met one that didn't and I know more 'manly' queers than not anymore. Let's get over ourselves, shall we?
22
@20. I thought it was pretty funny.
The main point also happens to be true: If/where gay men can't marry other gay men some of them will marry women.
The main point also happens to be true: If/where gay men can't marry other gay men some of them will marry women.
21
Come on, people. How long is the history between faghags and their gayboy-friends? Not in every case of course, but more often than not, we straight gals tend to have more in common with our gay male friends, than with straightboys, regarding everyday interests and such. To be offended by an amusing take on this, is like pretending there are no swishy gayboys out there, that that's just a "stereotype".
This video has the gay person demonstrating power over the straight oppressor type for his bigoted ways. Hooray for satire.
Come on, people. How long is the history between faghags and their gayboy-friends? Not in every case of course, but more often than not, we straight gals tend to have more in common with our gay male friends, than with straightboys, regarding everyday interests and such. To be offended by an amusing take on this, is like pretending there are no swishy gayboys out there, that that's just a "stereotype".
This video has the gay person demonstrating power over the straight oppressor type for his bigoted ways. Hooray for satire.
20
Is it safe for me to say that I -- a straight guy who supports gay marriage and has both gay and trans friends -- enjoyed this, or will the rest of you maul me for exhibiting internalized stereotypes? Jesus Christ...
19
I really should address 13, as a woman. I ABSOLUTELY did not want that type of man. Now, granted, I'm a little "out of the mold" myself. I LOVE shoes and spent a long time figuring out how all my clothes were going to fit peacefully in my house with only what he absolutely needed to have, but if I didn't have someone in my life who could debate an infield fly or out-of-bounds call decently with me, or actually be useful when conducting home repairs (I am helpful, too, if more like the "man" and more likely to just make something involving power tools up rather than follow the instructions), I'd be one very unhappy bitch. I don't want him to come shopping with me. That's my girl/gay time. He needs to cheerfully put up with my shoes, not help me select them. Different strokes for different folks, go find whoever makes you happy. Yes, I found this video hilarious. But not because I think a "stereotypical gay man" is the right partner for me.
18
The butt of this joke are the men who Amanda Marcotte eloquently observed will "respect you into 4 kids and 0 orgasms." No, all gay men are not like the stereotype presented, but the stereotype is what the target is afraid of, and what the rest of us can laugh at, because we know better. Lighten up, folks! WE WON (over and over and over again)! Have a little fun with it...
17
@3, @11:
Sorry, but your choices are between
a) funny
b) cute
c) meh
No credit will be given for "Blah blah offensive blah blah disconcerting blah blah blah stereotypes".
Sorry, but your choices are between
a) funny
b) cute
c) meh
No credit will be given for "Blah blah offensive blah blah disconcerting blah blah blah stereotypes".
15
I thought it was funny. Plus, remember Washington State: you don't have to marry anybody's girlfriend any more (unless she's your girlfriend)!
Now, where do I find me one of those cute gay guys to go to the theater and art openings with?
Now, where do I find me one of those cute gay guys to go to the theater and art openings with?
13
I get it. I've had many gay male friends who were better friends than any of my straight male friends/potential partners and most of my female friends of any sexual orientation. Not all of them were catty, and I was able to share and do things with my gay male friends that I wasn't able to share or do with potential boyfriends.
Straight men who are OK with all the "girly" things mentioned are few and far between. I have finally found a man who is straight who will do all the things mentioned in this video, but it has taken me over 40 years to do it.
BTW, it also plays on stereotypes of straight women. Not all women like quiche, or musicals, or shopping, but that's not the point. The point is to make a joke of those who are standing in the way of progress for those who simply want to marry the people they love. Bigots are the butt of this joke, not gay male or straight female stereotypes.
Straight men who are OK with all the "girly" things mentioned are few and far between. I have finally found a man who is straight who will do all the things mentioned in this video, but it has taken me over 40 years to do it.
BTW, it also plays on stereotypes of straight women. Not all women like quiche, or musicals, or shopping, but that's not the point. The point is to make a joke of those who are standing in the way of progress for those who simply want to marry the people they love. Bigots are the butt of this joke, not gay male or straight female stereotypes.
11
I agree with @3. I'm sick of gay men always being portrayed as vain and judgmental. I get this is tongue and cheek, but just because a guy is gay doesn't mean he always has to be catty. And what self respecting woman doesn't have a choice in this matter? I get it's a joke, but it's not a funny one.
6
Sadly, there seem to be more straight bigots than gay men.
@5: You mean the principled and sane bisexual congresswoman from Arizona. I really don't care about how hot she is.
@5: You mean the principled and sane bisexual congresswoman from Arizona. I really don't care about how hot she is.
5
No one tell Dan Savage about Kyrsten Sinema, the smoking hot bisexual congresswoman from Arizona...
4
Oh come on now, 3. No one who made this or supports gay marriage already really thinks all gay guys are like that.
3
While funny, I find the stereotypes presented in this - and that memoir recently released about parents suspecting (correctly) that their son is gay - to be a little disconcerting.
According to this video and that book, my straight best friend is much gayer than I am (which in of its self is quite disturbing)
According to this video and that book, my straight best friend is much gayer than I am (which in of its self is quite disturbing)
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