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Thursday, November 8, 2012

Ken Schram Says People Who "May Actually Be Pedophiles and/or Perverts" Could Be Posing as Transgender to Hang Out in Women's Locker Rooms

Posted by on Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 1:19 PM

There was an incident recently at the Evergreen State College in which a transgender woman (with male genitalia) was in the women's locker room, and after a young girl saw the trans woman naked, the parents complained. The story was pushed by Joseph Backholm, who runs the anti-gay Family Policy Institute of Washington and ran the failed anti-gay marriage campaign. KOMO ran the scandalized story last week.

Then yesterday, KOMO's Ken Schram awarded the college administrators, who say they were following state nondiscrimination law, a Shrammie Award. Here's his "reasoning":

Do watch the video—especially for the dramatically interjected movie clips of dudes in bad drag. Schram says, "there has got to be more than just a simple declaration that a guy identifies as a woman. Subjecting women and girls to guys who may want nothing more than seeing and being seen just isn't right."

This is some of the worst, laziest, and most offensive punditry Seattle has ever seen. It's like he deserves a stupid bobble-head award or something.

 

Comments (49) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
Ken Schram is, in fact, a professional troll who goes out of his way to get a reaction from people.
Posted by leighzbohns on November 8, 2012 at 1:31 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 2
I've seen more polished segments put together by high school audio/visual clubs.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on November 8, 2012 at 1:34 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 3
Where's the Schrammie for the 99 tunnel btw?
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on November 8, 2012 at 1:37 PM · Report this
Matt the Engineer 4
There was a great presentation at my son's preschool last year about transgender issues in school. Turns out one of the biggest problems administrators seem to have is the issue of bathrooms. Do you force the trans girl into the boy's room, or face the parental outrage of letting a born-male girl into the girls' room? The cases mentioned solved this in the correct way, by spending a lot of effort communicating with and educating parents, but it didn't sound easy to get to that point.

Trolling like this is sure to make this much harder to do.
Posted by Matt the Engineer on November 8, 2012 at 1:40 PM · Report this
David Schmader 6
Hernfan: Email links, wouldja? editor@thestranger.com
Posted by David Schmader on November 8, 2012 at 1:46 PM · Report this
7
I can't watch the video, so I won't comment on it, but I'm sure the little girl in the women's locker room wasn't really concerned about the lady's gender (as opposed to sex) when she had a big cock in her face.
Posted by MRM on November 8, 2012 at 1:50 PM · Report this
9
Sorry pal, you can't expect anyone to see your point if you're going to belittle the discussion with Mrs. Doubtfire jokes. I think this is an issue that deserves serious debate, and you're not helping Schrammie.
Posted by cb on November 8, 2012 at 2:05 PM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 10
I don't care what anybody says. If there's a guy in the girls locker room, arrest him. It doesn't matter to me what he's wearing or not wearing. Jail!
Posted by Pope Peabrain on November 8, 2012 at 2:06 PM · Report this
Asparagus! 11
@7

That's exactly how it went down too.
Posted by Asparagus! on November 8, 2012 at 2:09 PM · Report this
Matt the Engineer 12
@10 We're not talking about a guy in the girl's locker room. We're talking about a woman that happens to have man parts. You're going to force her into the men's room?
Posted by Matt the Engineer on November 8, 2012 at 2:10 PM · Report this
Posted by checkavailability on November 8, 2012 at 2:11 PM · Report this
MacCrocodile 14
@2 - I've seen more polished segments produced by an anus.
Posted by MacCrocodile http://maccrocodile.com/ on November 8, 2012 at 2:13 PM · Report this
15
I'm not sure why this is being presented as a no-brainer. I don't want trans women to have to use the boy's locker room, but it also seems perfectly reasonable to not want young girls (or any females for that matter) exposed to unexpected penises. The video may be ridiculous, but the issue isn't.
Posted by confusedabouttheoutragehere on November 8, 2012 at 2:14 PM · Report this
douchus 16
Young girls often go into men's restrooms with their father's and/or brother's, so how is this different? And it was a COLLEGE locker room; maybe they should ban little girls from being in grown-up areas if they're not mature enough to deal with other people.
Posted by douchus on November 8, 2012 at 2:25 PM · Report this
17
@15 Using the appropriate facilities is a right. Not being offended is not a right. I am sure lots of whites where uncomfortable with black people using the same lunch counters too.
Posted by Spike1382 on November 8, 2012 at 2:26 PM · Report this
18
Suppose someone had an offensive tattoo you didn't think kids could see. Should that person be kicked out of the locker room? And that would be a choice. This woman was born trans and it is a fundamental part of who she is.
Posted by Spike1382 on November 8, 2012 at 2:30 PM · Report this
21
Why would seeing a penis be damaging to a "young" girl (she was 17 by the way) and not a boy?
Posted by Spike1382 on November 8, 2012 at 2:43 PM · Report this
Dougsf 22
Why would a pedophile hang out in an adult's locker room, and how do we distinguish a "pervert"? I'm guessing this video will answer none of these questions, but I would like to compliment the use of helvetica x red on beige in that screen capture.
Posted by Dougsf on November 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM · Report this
23
So about the Schrammies, If you win one, do you get that bobble head? If so I am going to try and bait him into awarding me a Schammie. He's kinda predictable, so I bet I can do it in under a year.
Posted by longball on November 8, 2012 at 2:53 PM · Report this
pfffter 24
Aw. He's like our own little PNW version of Andy Rooney. Except not as entertaining. And dumber. Which is saying a lot.
Posted by pfffter on November 8, 2012 at 2:59 PM · Report this
GhostDog 25
This actually brings up an issue that I've always had in regards to transgender issues.

How can you tell when someone is a woman who just happens to have male parts as opposed to a male who wants to leer at women's parts?

The best I would imagine can be done is that it is observed in the breach, meaning that if you catch a person leering then they are most likely a male who wants to leer.

However, if that is the case then we have to ask ourselves which is more important. People of whatever gender feeling safe from being leered at or people feeling safe surrounded by their gender of choice?

Though I will admit this is something that I struggle with forming a good opinion on.
Posted by GhostDog on November 8, 2012 at 3:00 PM · Report this
Matt the Engineer 26
@25 Are you completely discounting the women who might want to leer at other women? We live in a society where we don't generally leer at each other in the locker room. If we do, that's the problem - not the physical gender of the person doing the leering.
Posted by Matt the Engineer on November 8, 2012 at 3:06 PM · Report this
27
By the same logic, men should not be allowed into the same bathrooms as boys. Maybe they are just there for "...nothing more than seeing or being seen..." Same could apply to women to. I guess it's finally time for age-segregated public restrooms.
Posted by BrinkleyBoy on November 8, 2012 at 3:07 PM · Report this
brandon 29
It's FUCKING EVERGREEN, Trans people go there. Trans people use the facilities. If you can't handle it don't go. And if you do go and have a problem, shut the fuck up about it.

Jesus fucking christ, they act like it happened in a kindergarten class. These are adults were talking about, 18 years old. Grow the fuck up.
Posted by brandon on November 8, 2012 at 3:13 PM · Report this
GhostDog 28
@26 My apologies. I would agree that is also a problem that is equally hard to address.
Posted by GhostDog on November 8, 2012 at 3:13 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 30
@22 You can usually tell by the way they dress. If they dress like a Catholic priest or Boy Scout leader or Penn State coach, then the odds are pretty good they're a pedophile.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on November 8, 2012 at 3:17 PM · Report this
31
What would we poor little girls do without all these men to look out for us and "protect" us from other penises.
Posted by lenore on November 8, 2012 at 3:34 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 33
NEWSFLASH TO PARENTS!

Your precious snowflakes have already seen everything you don't want them to see. They've already heard everything you don't want them to hear. They've already done everything you don't want them to do.

Your kids have already grown up. Please do the same.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on November 8, 2012 at 3:42 PM · Report this
Geni 34
I'm with @28 on this one. Please, there's someone at Evergreen who's never seen a transgender person? REALLY? Besides, I'm quite sure if this were 1958, there'd be people making the same lame sorts of excuses about how uncomfortable it makes them that the "colored people" use the same toilets. Thankfully, we've moved beyond THAT idiocy - maybe we can move on to accepting that transgender persons are not men in drag, they are not pedophiles and perverts, and they should not be forced to use the restroom of the gender with which they do not identify.

I've never really gotten the restroom freakouts anyway. Doesn't everyone pretty much grow up in a household where they share a bathroom with siblings or other family members with differing parts?
Posted by Geni on November 8, 2012 at 3:43 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 35
@34,

Evergreen shares its locker rooms with a high school and a swimming club that young children apparently belong to.
Posted by keshmeshi on November 8, 2012 at 4:08 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 36
Among many questions I have, one that sticks out is: what do transmen do? Do transmen use men's locker rooms and bathrooms, or do they use the women's facilities? For a number of reasons and based on a few anecdotes, I suspect they use the latter, in which case it seems like gender is getting divided along two lines: cisgendered men and everyone else. Am I the only one who sees a problem with that?
Posted by keshmeshi on November 8, 2012 at 4:13 PM · Report this
37
Wow. How homophobic of him. Maybe he is jealous and wants to be the pervert he fantasizes about. Of course, if a woman felt like someone was not being respectful in a locker room, she would say something. It's also nobody's business what is in anyone else's underwear unless one is becoming consensually intimate.
Posted by Brend Zen on November 8, 2012 at 5:12 PM · Report this
38
Gotta say that I agree with 15 here! The video is obviously ridiculous, but this issue itself seems like a difficult one. I wonder if one solution would be to provide some private stalls/private showers - not perfect, but maybe an improvement over the current situation. I feel like acting like this is no big deal is pretty dismissive of all the women out there who have been victims of sexual assault and may be rightly freaked out by suddenly seeing a penis in what they perceive to be a single-gender area. And if I were a parent, I probably wouldn't want my kid randomly seeing a stranger's penis either (dad/brother is really, really different). Bottom line is, in a naked-person situation, it's going to be impossible to tell what 'gender' someone is when they've got a penis hanging out there, and given the context of sexual violence against women in our society, it's not hard to imagine while many women and girls will be really uncomfortable.

Note - I think this is really, really different from general bathroom issues where there is no public nudity. In that case, presumably no one is the wise and I don't see the issue.
Posted by sara on November 8, 2012 at 5:19 PM · Report this
Asparagus! 39
#36

I'm a cisgendered, straight, traditionally attractive male and I've felt intensely uncomfortable in men's locker rooms. I can hardly blame anybody who deviates from the norm at all for feeling the same.

I think a lot of people agree that men's behaviour in places where they think they are safe from criticism is a huge problem.
Posted by Asparagus! on November 8, 2012 at 5:39 PM · Report this
Soupytwist 40
The woman in question was in the sauna when she was seen - and I've been in that sauna, children aren't allowed in that sauna, so I'm questioning WHO saw what...

@35 - The high school and the swim club use the facilities due to Evergreen's generous choice to open their facilities to the community. Those people know what kind of place Evergreen is - their sense of entitlement and different values than Evergreen is what should be at issue.

It's times like these that I am even more proud to be a Greener.

P.S. You capitalize "the" in The Evergreen State College (TESC).
Posted by Soupytwist http://twitter.com/katherinesmith on November 8, 2012 at 5:44 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 41
@39,

I can understand why both transmen and transwomen would prefer to use women's facilities and take part in women's activities. Transmen because they aren't regarded as "real" men, and the risk of being the victim of anti-trans violence is too great. (Women don't exactly have a track record of beating, raping, or murdering transgender people.) And transwomen because that's who they are, and also anti-trans violence.

But we still seem to be heading in the direction of: cisgendered men and everyone else. And that everyone else is getting lumped into women's spaces is just something that cisgendered women have to suck up and deal with (according to the commenter @17 and 18).
Posted by keshmeshi on November 8, 2012 at 5:49 PM · Report this
ams_ 42
@38 agree.
Posted by ams_ on November 8, 2012 at 5:53 PM · Report this
44
Considering that my trans friend (who presents male and is leaning that way now) was nearly raped in a womens bathroom by a man who security watched follow them in there, I would say we need to do a lot more to promote trans rights than worry that a teenager might see a trans woman's pee pee.
Posted by Spike1382 on November 8, 2012 at 7:45 PM · Report this
Hawke 45
OK a little Trans101. When we use the restroom of our chosen gender, it is because we need to pee (or poo). When we use the locker room of our chosen gender, it isn't to leer at naked girls. It is to get dressed (or shower or go to the restroom...). The bathroom thing is a dog whistle the other side likes to use on Trans folks now that it no longer works on gay men.
Posted by Hawke http://facebook.com/thehawke on November 8, 2012 at 9:57 PM · Report this
Hawke 46
#36 - I use a guy's locker room because I am a guy. My wife uses the women's locker room because she is a woman.
Posted by Hawke http://facebook.com/thehawke on November 8, 2012 at 10:14 PM · Report this
WristViolins 48
Not to mention trans women are at far higher risk of assault when around cismen in a locker room or bathroom. I think a trans woman in a city hall said it best, "Sometimes I just have to pee."

http://lillyslabyrinth.blogspot.com/2012…

The boogeyman callouts and "I'm really just uncomfortable with a potential for dongs" is so exasperating for me! I swear, I am not trying to flash anybody, I just want to go swimming. By all means, chip in for my surgery if you want to rid the world of the evil evil penis, but there's a point where a trans woman has been on hormones for two years and looks totally like a lady with the exception of bottom surgery. Would you have this woman use a male locker room just because you're uncomfortable? http://theblogismine.theblogismineltd.ne…
Posted by WristViolins on November 9, 2012 at 10:45 AM · Report this
sissoucat 49
"I wonder if one solution would be to provide some private stalls/private showers - not perfect, but maybe an improvement over the current situation."

Because, there aren't any ?

The swimming pool I go to has no male/female separation : it's all individual changing stalls and one big common shower area. Males and females shower together, wearing their bathing suits. To wash your privates you put your soapy hands inside your bathing suit. Nobody's naked and nobody leers. Problem solved.

Mixed-gender restrooms with stalls would also solve the toilet problem. We all have to pee, male and female, cis or trans. Why should we segregate according to gender in order to do so ?

Besides, it would also help single mothers with sons. I hate having to let my teen son out of my sight and hearing in public restrooms - it's not safe. But he's too old now to get into the women's room with me and the younger ones. This male/female segregation is really, really dumb for everybody.
Posted by sissoucat on November 9, 2012 at 2:38 PM · Report this
50
Today's short attention spans are amazing. Some of you may remember that a primary reason to uphold "Don't Ask Don't Tell" was that fear-mongering Neanderthals argued gay men and women would turn military barracks into hard-breathing brothels... Even FOX News has not had any such stories in this first year since the law was repealed.
As a trans woman who had to endure years of processing various IDs, go through hundreds of gatekeepers before I could get my surgery, I can assure you that despite my lesbian orientation I was never excited about having sex in a public bathroom. But then, I am not Catholic. Before anyone makes crazy accusations, I invite you to walk a mile in my size 14 heels....
Posted by spirit110 on November 9, 2012 at 3:07 PM · Report this
vitupera 51
Gosh, has anyone told that poor man that he's just recycling tired old transphobic arguments from second-wave feminists? I mean, it's on tape and everything, someone should really tell him before he makes another embarrassing gaffe.
Posted by vitupera on November 9, 2012 at 9:36 PM · Report this
watchout5 52
Can we just section bathrooms off by age? Does that cause all sorts of other problems? Why do we even care so much who the person next to us taking a dump is. If a child is young enough to be scared by a trans person they should need an escort with them, don't some places have family bathrooms? Let's get some of those to protect the children? Or something?
Posted by watchout5 http://www.overclockeddrama.com on November 9, 2012 at 10:48 PM · Report this
53
Wait a tick. Several of you seem to be arguing I as a male with a dick should be able to use female facilities simply because it is my whim to identify as a female. Yes. That's what many of you are implying or even directly arguing in the weird name of tolerance.

Please qualify your statements before allowing me to do what i proposed and being arrested.
Posted by PanWhale on November 9, 2012 at 11:55 PM · Report this
54
You're taking Schram's ridiculous, homophobic, gender minorities might be child molesters baiting and losing a more important point he does indeed make. Any human with a penis that appeared reasonably to penis to the average person would be arrested in 99.9% of settings if they used a female locker room. Evergreen apparently doesnt follow this policy and that is weird to me, sorry. The pedophile thing ruins his whole argument, and its a shame, and he is a horrible person because he finds slivers of truths then makes sure no one else will ever be able to see them because he's such a horrible person.
Posted by PanWhale on November 10, 2012 at 12:03 AM · Report this
venomlash 55
Have single-user restroom and changing facilities available. That way preoperative transsexuals who feel uncomfortable about it can have some privacy, and paranoid pearl-clutchers can go in there themselves if they feel worried about the possibility of transsexuals using the regular changing room.
Posted by venomlash on November 10, 2012 at 4:18 PM · Report this
56
@53: Generally speaking, people don't transition on a whim. Have there been actual cases of men dressing as women only to go into a women's locker room and sneak a peek? I don't think so, but if you can find evidence of some examples, I'm open to them.
Posted by clashfan on November 10, 2012 at 8:16 PM · Report this

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