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News & ArtsTuesday, October 30, 2012
City Mayor McGinn Thanks Capitol Hill Community for Pushing Streetcar Extension
Posted by Eli Sanders on Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:37 AM
- E.S.
- McGinn, at the likely new end of the Capitol Hill streetcar line.
A bit more on this morning's streetcar news:
At a press conference at the intersection of Broadway Avenue East and East Roy Street this morning, Mayor Mike McGinn said he agreed with members of the Capitol Hill community who have long argued that a new streetcar line from the International District should go further north than the incoming light rail station at Broadway and Denny.
"Stopping the streetcar line half-way through the Broadway business district didn't make sense," McGinn said.
The $1.75 in million federal funds that were announced today will help the city design and plan a streetcar extension north to Roy Street, a project that could ultimately cost $25 million to build and—possibly, if all goes well—be completed by 2015.
"The work we are doing today wouldn't happen without support from the community," McGinn said. And representatives of the community agreed. "It's exactly the kind of help that businesses need right now," said Jerry Traunfeld, owner of the nearby restaurant Poppy.
Peter Hahn, director of the Seattle Department of Transportation, said it's important to have money to do the design and planning for the proposed extension because "just having a back-of-the-envelope gleam in your eye doesn't work" when going to the feds for the larger amounts of money that will be needed to build this thing.
Hahn also noted, in an interesting aside, that the cycle tracks under construction as part of the already-paid-for Capitol Hill streetcar route may very well open before the streetcar itself—possibly as soon as next year.
(Not settled by this press conference: The question of whether the streetcar should go even further north, toward Volunteer Park.)
1
I'm not a huge trolley fan, but since they are building it, it seems natural for it to go down 10th Avenue, right on Aloha all the way to 24th, then left and either end at the arboretum or the UW.
Or it could just go all the way down Harvard and over the University Bridge.
Or it could just go all the way down Harvard and over the University Bridge.
2
@1, I would pay good money to watch you try driving a streetcar down Aloha between 18th and 19th. That would be epic.
5
@2, I see your point there, but not knowing much about trolleys I'm not even sure: is such a feat impossible for a trolley?
6
The difference in per mile costs for Streetcar and LINK are fantastic.
Yet they do the same thing.
And Sandy is teaching us about the dangers of tunnels!
7
@5, I googled a bit and it turns out Portland specified its cars must be able to climb a steeper than usual grade, 9%, which I believe is steeper than that stretch of Aloha. So much for my joke!
8
(But now that I google various grades I think that bit is probably steeper than 9%. See, there's a reason I'm a reader not a writer...so, Streetcarmageddon after all.)
9
#7
http://www.lightrailnow.org/myths/m_myth…
Myth:
Buses can run on steep grades, but light rail cars are limited to grades of 6%.
Reality:
Rubber-tired vehicles such as buses have incrementally better traction on dry pavement, but significantly lower traction in wet, icy, or snowy conditions. Furthermore, electric light rail transit (LRT) railcars – including streetcars (trams) – are capable of negotiating much steeper grades than is commonly assumed and included in system designs.
In general, it advisable to minimize grades on any new transit system as much as possible. However, where necessary (to access critical sections of a city, to contain costs, or for other reasons), LRT can handle grades as steep as 12% (depending on vehicle design, motor power, and other technical capabilities).
http://www.lightrailnow.org/myths/m_myth…
11
@10 the trolley is going to bring a cycletrack to Broadway, which means Cap Hill will be one of the best places to bike in the entire city.
13
Biking on Capitol Hill is fucked up now and will be for several more years thanks to the streetcar. I'm not convinced the cycletrack is going to be so great either, is to contain both directions of bicycle traffic within it?
14
@1: While I understand the appeal of running a streetcar down Aloha, I wouldn't call that the "natural" route. Aloha isn't classified as a transit street by the SDOT, meaning that Metro couldn't even run one bus a day on that street without getting permission.
Take a look at the map:
http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/do…
You can see that there are a lot of really minor streets which are classified as "transit streets". If a street isn't on the list, that means that it's not a natural route to anywhere.
In contrast, here's the list of transit priority corridors:
http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/do…
If we have any extra money to spend on streetcars, we're going to go along Eastlake to the U-District (like the 70), along Westlake to Ballard (like the 40), and in and around downtown.
Realistically, once you get north of Roy St, there just isn't enough demand to warrant a high-capacity service like a streetcar. A frequent bus would do just fine.
Take a look at the map:
http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/do…
You can see that there are a lot of really minor streets which are classified as "transit streets". If a street isn't on the list, that means that it's not a natural route to anywhere.
In contrast, here's the list of transit priority corridors:
http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/do…
If we have any extra money to spend on streetcars, we're going to go along Eastlake to the U-District (like the 70), along Westlake to Ballard (like the 40), and in and around downtown.
Realistically, once you get north of Roy St, there just isn't enough demand to warrant a high-capacity service like a streetcar. A frequent bus would do just fine.
15
Broadway is one of the most walkable streets in Seattle.
why we need a street car that runs between two light rail stops seems crazy to me.
but that's SOP for transit in this town...
why we need a street car that runs between two light rail stops seems crazy to me.
but that's SOP for transit in this town...
16
So will all cars be banned from Broadway, then? Boy, I'm glad I don't live on Capitol Hill. Bad enough now, but it's going to be a complete mess in the near future. Where will the junkies throw their needles, by the way?
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