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News & ArtsThursday, October 25, 2012
2012 / Books Potty-Mouthed President Obama Expertly Dissects Ayn Rand's Novels
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:11 PM
Everyone is talking about President Obama calling Mitt Romney a "bullshitter" in the Rolling Stone interview. I think it's a non-story; Rolling Stone is a magazine for adults, the president is an adult, and "bullshitter" is simply not that bad a word. (Unless you're Mormon.) But the thing that makes me want to stand up and cheer in the Rolling Stone interview is this bit about Ayn Rand that Talking Points Memo highlights:
Have you ever read Ayn Rand?
Sure.What do you think Paul Ryan's obsession with her work would mean if he were vice president?
Well, you'd have to ask Paul Ryan what that means to him. Ayn Rand is one of those things that a lot of us, when we were 17 or 18 and feeling misunderstood, we'd pick up. Then, as we get older, we realize that a world in which we're only thinking about ourselves and not thinking about anybody else, in which we're considering the entire project of developing ourselves as more important than our relationships to other people and making sure that everybody else has opportunity – that that's a pretty narrow vision. It's not one that, I think, describes what's best in America. Unfortunately, it does seem as if sometimes that vision of a "you're on your own" society has consumed a big chunk of the Republican Party.
Right the fuck on. Any president who can carve the thesis of Ayn Rand's "philosophy" to shreds in a single paragraph is my kind of president.
6
So when the Moocher Class squeal for someone else to pay more taxes to fund stuff for them how is that 'thinking about anybody else'?
The debate is: those who are paying for government say that can't pay anymore while those who consume government say they don't give a fuck keep the goodies coming.
Obama didn't cover that in his brilliant paragraph....
The debate is: those who are paying for government say that can't pay anymore while those who consume government say they don't give a fuck keep the goodies coming.
Obama didn't cover that in his brilliant paragraph....
7
@6 Your name is backwards, and the people aren't saying they can't pay more, they're saying they don't want to.
They obviously can, see the 50s and 60s.
They obviously can, see the 50s and 60s.
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@6, It's the lowest tax rate in over 50 years and if you look at red state versus blue state, its the red states that are getting the most and paying the least. So that's really not the debate at all.
9
Not only that, its not clear who Ayn Rand would be supporting. Look what she said about Reagan:
"1. The Presidential election of 1976. I urge you, as emphatically as I can, not to support the candidacy of Ronald Reagan. I urge you not to work for or advocate his nomination, and not to vote for him. My reasons are as follows: Mr. Reagan is not a champion of capitalism, but a conservative in the worst sense of that word—i.e., an advocate of a mixed economy with government controls slanted in favor of business rather than labor (which, philosophically, is as untenable a position as one could choose—see Fred Kinnan in Atlas Shrugged, pp. 541-2). This description applies in various degrees to most Republican politicians, but most of them preserve some respect for the rights of the individual. Mr. Reagan does not: he opposes the right to abortion."
"1. The Presidential election of 1976. I urge you, as emphatically as I can, not to support the candidacy of Ronald Reagan. I urge you not to work for or advocate his nomination, and not to vote for him. My reasons are as follows: Mr. Reagan is not a champion of capitalism, but a conservative in the worst sense of that word—i.e., an advocate of a mixed economy with government controls slanted in favor of business rather than labor (which, philosophically, is as untenable a position as one could choose—see Fred Kinnan in Atlas Shrugged, pp. 541-2). This description applies in various degrees to most Republican politicians, but most of them preserve some respect for the rights of the individual. Mr. Reagan does not: he opposes the right to abortion."
10
@5
Excepting newsstand loitering, and doctors office waiting rooms, generally, if i see someone reading RS, i label them as a dork. I'm racist like that, or nerdist.
Excepting newsstand loitering, and doctors office waiting rooms, generally, if i see someone reading RS, i label them as a dork. I'm racist like that, or nerdist.
11
Re "bullshitter"--people tend to criticize the form of an argument when they cannot really say anything about its substance.
Re Ayn Rand-right the fuck on, indeed.
Re Ayn Rand-right the fuck on, indeed.
12
I was a Randroid douchebag in high school. I spouted off her "philosophy" all the time - selfishness as a virtue, whack ideas about what constituted art and beauty. Etc.
A wise English teacher pointed out to class that what I was saying was an adolescent phase and most grew out of it as they developed as a human.
Embarrased, I hated her with a passion at the time. As life wore on, continuing into college, I reflected on her statement and finally realized the world wasn't just about me.
I now consider her my most influential and best teacher.
Thank you Ms Ceteznik! I'm sorry Paul Ryan didn't have someone like you.
A wise English teacher pointed out to class that what I was saying was an adolescent phase and most grew out of it as they developed as a human.
Embarrased, I hated her with a passion at the time. As life wore on, continuing into college, I reflected on her statement and finally realized the world wasn't just about me.
I now consider her my most influential and best teacher.
Thank you Ms Ceteznik! I'm sorry Paul Ryan didn't have someone like you.
15
Wow 8way. You're thanking Ms. Ceteznik, who essentially used intimidation to get you to back off of something you were passionate about. When did her comments get to you so badly that you decided to just give in and hate yourself?
16
Probably a story in this; vandalism of Obama signs. Some nice GOPer draped a deer carcass on one in Augusta County, VA.
http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/GRAPH…
http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/GRAPH…
19
Nice premise for that question -- that Paul Ryan is obsessed with Rand. What if he merely appreciates Rand? After all, Ryan has said that Rand "taught me quite a bit about who I am" and also on record that he ultimately rejects her philosophy.
I find Obama's condescending response emblematic of the man. A smarter politician would have used the occasion to praise the aspects of Rand he saw the most value in, even if he ultimately rejects Rand. Instead, he proclaims Rand to be a juvenile phase to be grown out of once a person reaches full, government-loving adulthood. Give me a break.
And just in cold political terms -- Atlas Shrugged sold 500K copies in the last year alone. The fact that Obama doesn't think any of those book buyers are worth courting is kind of amazing.
I find Obama's condescending response emblematic of the man. A smarter politician would have used the occasion to praise the aspects of Rand he saw the most value in, even if he ultimately rejects Rand. Instead, he proclaims Rand to be a juvenile phase to be grown out of once a person reaches full, government-loving adulthood. Give me a break.
And just in cold political terms -- Atlas Shrugged sold 500K copies in the last year alone. The fact that Obama doesn't think any of those book buyers are worth courting is kind of amazing.
20
To quote Raj Patel -
“There are two novels that can transform a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish daydream that can lead to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood in which large chunks of the day are spent inventing ways to make real life more like a fantasy novel. The other is a book about orcs.”
“There are two novels that can transform a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish daydream that can lead to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood in which large chunks of the day are spent inventing ways to make real life more like a fantasy novel. The other is a book about orcs.”
22
@17
as Meatloaf goes, so goes the nation... I was worried when Gene Simmons endorsed Romney. now, shit's getting real.
as Meatloaf goes, so goes the nation... I was worried when Gene Simmons endorsed Romney. now, shit's getting real.
23
@20 - I'm glad my mother, who's a public health nurse, forced me to go out with her on her home health visits to poor families, help deliver turkeys to the homes of the needy, as well as spent 9 months play computer and video games with the family of a kid my age (13-14 y.o) who was suffering last stage Muscular dystrophy (not pretty) to realize later in life when introduced to Ayn Rand, quickly realized her ideas were dangerous to society than what people like Paul Ryan believe and realize. Unfortunately, I have a friend who loves her ideas and privately told me that Amazon is full of Ayn Rand followers at all levels of the org chart.
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@19, bullshit. That sales figure (445k, btw) is unsourced except an article at the Ayn Rand Institute's website with no references other than to her publisher and the Institute. Good enough for Wikipedia, but that's it.
25
7
8
You confirm our point.
You want more and insist that someone ELSE has to pay for what you want.
When the Moocher Underclass riots you have dirty smelly punks shitting on squad cars and molesting each other in parks.
How does a riot by the Producer Class look?
The Takers are not getting the message.
Like two year olds who pitch tantrums, they seem immune to reason.
The Productive segment of the Middle Class has made their position clear.
Things will not continue on as before.
An Obama victory will bring about a social change such as the Republic has not seen since the Educated Propertied Class initiated a revolution against another tyrant 337 years ago.....
8
You confirm our point.
You want more and insist that someone ELSE has to pay for what you want.
When the Moocher Underclass riots you have dirty smelly punks shitting on squad cars and molesting each other in parks.
How does a riot by the Producer Class look?
The Takers are not getting the message.
Like two year olds who pitch tantrums, they seem immune to reason.
The Productive segment of the Middle Class has made their position clear.
Things will not continue on as before.
An Obama victory will bring about a social change such as the Republic has not seen since the Educated Propertied Class initiated a revolution against another tyrant 337 years ago.....
26
@#20
I'm fond of that line you quote, but I'm pretty sure the correct attribution is not Raj Patel (with whom I'm not familiar), but John Rogers
I'm fond of that line you quote, but I'm pretty sure the correct attribution is not Raj Patel (with whom I'm not familiar), but John Rogers
28
I'm sorry, Meatloaf? Since when did a loaf of meat and other filler endorse a candidate for President? Since when did anyone care?
And the Mashed Potatoes on the side? Who did they finally endorse?
And the Mashed Potatoes on the side? Who did they finally endorse?
29
@12 - Damn, you're lucky. I loved reading with a passion as a kid - I always read for pleasure in addition to what was assigned, I was in advanced or Honors English classes starting in first grade. Then in tenth grade we were assigned The Fountainhead. I despised it with a passion, and skewered Rand's philosophy in class. My teacher was deeply offended and told me that I essentially wasn't allowed to feel that way, and that if I knew what was good for me my paper would reflect "more respect for the book". When I didn't comply, she failed me. It was the only semester I have ever gotten a bad grade in an English class.
30
I love my President, and his views on her book are right on and very perceptive. And that philosophy is indeed bullshit.
31
dnt trust me @10: Excepting newsstand loitering, and doctors office waiting rooms, generally, if i see someone reading RS, i label them as a dork.
Well, you missed out then on a terrific story in the latest issue that puts Mitt Romney's candidacy in the context of Mormon history. A real eye-opener.
You also missed out on a decent cover story on Taylor Swift too, but then, the simple fact that I would read an article about Taylor Swift in any publication is a sure indication that I am a dork, never mind my having purchased the latest Rolling Stone.
P.S. If I had a dime for every time someone on Slog sang the praises of Ms. Ceteznik, Barbara or Gloria...
Well, you missed out then on a terrific story in the latest issue that puts Mitt Romney's candidacy in the context of Mormon history. A real eye-opener.
You also missed out on a decent cover story on Taylor Swift too, but then, the simple fact that I would read an article about Taylor Swift in any publication is a sure indication that I am a dork, never mind my having purchased the latest Rolling Stone.
P.S. If I had a dime for every time someone on Slog sang the praises of Ms. Ceteznik, Barbara or Gloria...
33
@25 One thing to consider: If Republicans succeed in shifting even more of the nations wealth into the hands of the plutocratic elite the next time the moochers riot they might come for your lard filled head instead of merely shitting on squad cars.
34
@29,
Wow. A glorified romance novel assigned in 10th grade honors English. What is the world coming to?
I generally don't support parents interfering in the grading process in schools, but your parents should have taken that matter up with the administration, frankly. The most important thing in writing class is making your argument in a convincing way, regardless if the teacher agrees. So, that teacher wasn't just a Randroid asshole who failed you for political reasons, she also was a hack who had no business working as a teacher.
Wow. A glorified romance novel assigned in 10th grade honors English. What is the world coming to?
I generally don't support parents interfering in the grading process in schools, but your parents should have taken that matter up with the administration, frankly. The most important thing in writing class is making your argument in a convincing way, regardless if the teacher agrees. So, that teacher wasn't just a Randroid asshole who failed you for political reasons, she also was a hack who had no business working as a teacher.
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