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News & ArtsThursday, October 11, 2012
2012 Joe Biden Beat the Shit Out of the Brains of the Republican Party Tonight, and He Did It for You
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:15 PM
I stand by my original post-VP debate analysis, but apparently, I am supposed to "write" "sentences" for a "living," so here's what I think about this debate, in non-superhero-movie-video-clip form.
Republicans love to mock Joe Biden for being an idiot. Hell, even most Democrats wouldn't put Biden in the top twenty intellects of the party. Paul Ryan, though, is admired by many Republican politicians as the brains of the Republican Party. Mitt Romney chose to elevate Ryan to the VP slot because Romney needed a serious Republican thinker to codify his weak control over the base. Republicans think of Ryan (and Ryan likes to think of himself) as the serious numbers guy, the guy who comes up with the plans that other Republicans follow. He's generally considered to be the smartest Republican in a national office today.
And Joe Biden creamed Paul Ryan. He laughed in Ryan's face and left him speechless. He shook Ryan's ideas until they fell apart like the crepe paper and chicken wire that they truly are. (It's important to note that Martha Raddatz's fine moderation held Ryan to the truth, too. Republicans are surely going to target Raddatz in the next few days, as they do all "uppity" women, but Raddatz should be proud of the fact that she reminded America what a great debate moderator is supposed to do.) Biden clearly stated his beliefs as a Democrat. He argued that America cares about Americans, and he fact-checked Ryan at every turn. (I was particularly moved by Biden's personal opposition as a Catholic to abortion, but his commitment to the fact that, as an elected official, it's not his job to impose his will on the American people.) Biden out-argued, out-spoke, and out-thought the smartest man the Republicans have to offer, and he did so armed with the courage of his convictions.
This was a very necessary win. Pundits will argue that the debate was a tie. Republicans will try to turn Biden back into a joke. (But they're going to have to struggle to twist reality to turn this debate into a Ryan win; here are some headlines on the conservative National Review's Corner blog from this evening: "The Jerk Won," "Joe the Bully," and the absolutely heartening "Ryan Did What Was Needed.") But Democrats (and, I'd argue, uncommitted voters) saw what really happened. A passionate, thoughtful, experienced advocate for the people went out there and reduced a highly esteemed Republican to the whinging punk kid he really is. This was a win for everyone who was disheartened by President Obama's overcautious debate performance, and it was a potent expression of how much life and fire there is in the Democratic Party. This wasn't a performance for the polls. It was more important than that. It was a mission statement for everyone working to get out the vote, a reminder of what the stakes are for Democrats, and a call to action for all the people who were beginning to lose hope. Because everyone was expecting a parody of Joe Biden, Joe Biden outsmarted everyone tonight.
2
But doesn't a "stellar" Biden performance make candidate Obama's Drubbing in Denver seem even worse.
It seems like we have 3 men who can debate articulately on TV. And one who cannot, but who unfortunately currently has the Chair.
It seems like we have 3 men who can debate articulately on TV. And one who cannot, but who unfortunately currently has the Chair.
3
@2,
I know you're not that dumb.
These things are all scripted and rehearsed and practiced in advance.
Obama was caught by surprise in his debate. Biden wasn't.
They are ALL capable of great debating. All four of them are. If you think Obama's debate performance at last week's debate has any actual bearing on his abilities as president you're a retard. Same for Biden, Romney, and Ryan. They all practice this shit every day. They all have great moments and terrible moments.
You're not this stupid. Don't act like it. Stop lowering yourself so much.
I know you're not that dumb.
These things are all scripted and rehearsed and practiced in advance.
Obama was caught by surprise in his debate. Biden wasn't.
They are ALL capable of great debating. All four of them are. If you think Obama's debate performance at last week's debate has any actual bearing on his abilities as president you're a retard. Same for Biden, Romney, and Ryan. They all practice this shit every day. They all have great moments and terrible moments.
You're not this stupid. Don't act like it. Stop lowering yourself so much.
7
Charles Pierce put it best: You know what's the difference between Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan? Lipstick.
8
#3 "Obama was caught by surprise in his debate."
So that Hillary ad about 3am was correct?
Isn't a Chief Executive supposed to react and change course quickly?
He's not supposed to "get caught by surprise" just because his teleprompter wasn't feeding him the answers.
So that Hillary ad about 3am was correct?
Isn't a Chief Executive supposed to react and change course quickly?
He's not supposed to "get caught by surprise" just because his teleprompter wasn't feeding him the answers.
10
@5 - CNBC's poll was 53/44 Biden/Ryan and CBS had it 50/31 Biden/Ryan, so yeah the polls DID say Ryan got creamed. If there are other announced polls that show something different, we're all ears. Much like Lyin Ryan. Bring some evidence if you want to play, sport.
11
Ryan Drew Blood Early, Then Cruised to Victory Over Unsteady, Flustered Biden
Even worse for Biden, and one can imagine President Obama cringing from afar, as Ryan scored points, Biden took to laughing in an uncontrollable way. Well aware that he lacked a mind quick enough to respond to the myriad jabs of his more nimble competitor, Biden presumably felt his laughs and smirks would effectively communicate what he couldn’t in terms of words, and well-crafted arguments.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/20…
13
@#11
Really? A John Tamny post, that's your evidence? Read his epic review of Atlas Shrugged Part 2 (hat tip), which is indistinguishable from a satire or spoof of wingnuttery, and get back to me with your opinion of Mr. Tamny. If that guy told me it was raining, I'd go out to see if I got wet, and double-check to see if it was really rain. But he'd never say it was raining; instead, he'd spend several paragraph rhapsodizing about how the magic of forceful leadership and the free market has blessed us with water from the heavens. The guy's a nutter.
Really? A John Tamny post, that's your evidence? Read his epic review of Atlas Shrugged Part 2 (hat tip), which is indistinguishable from a satire or spoof of wingnuttery, and get back to me with your opinion of Mr. Tamny. If that guy told me it was raining, I'd go out to see if I got wet, and double-check to see if it was really rain. But he'd never say it was raining; instead, he'd spend several paragraph rhapsodizing about how the magic of forceful leadership and the free market has blessed us with water from the heavens. The guy's a nutter.
14
@4 Actually that's a Mr. Forka.
Paul, I think I liked your original post-debate analysis more. It was more succinct and to the point. More eloquent, if you will.
I was full of nerves before this debate, though I had a spark of hope from past experience of how a passionate, unrestrained Biden could outshine and outdebate anyone short of Bill Clinton. I'll confess that, at best, I'd thought it'd be a draw. (Which it WASN'T!) So when I finally showed up half an hour in and heard Biden running all over Ryan, calling him out on every single thing - sometimes mid-sentence - and challenging him every single time, passionately (that word again) and clearly - and the moderator asking actual, honest-to-god, follow-up questions (holy crap!), and Ryan doing all he could from jumping up, grabbing his chair, and throwing it at Biden, well, I had to wonder if this wasn't an alternate reality, if what I was watching was actually true. I hate to say it, but my neighbor next door, if he was home, might have thought that I was watching the football game.
The only bad part was seeing Politico and all the major networks doing all they could to make a story of Biden supposedly being too rude and going too far and smirking too much. (Where were they last week?) Whatever. We all saw the debate and we know who pays their bills. I hope they play all the clips they want of Biden Being Mean, 'cause that'll just show Biden calling out Ryan on his bullcrap and kicking his butt. The more clips the better.
So thank you, Vice President Biden, and I'm sorry I "misunderstimated" you (to use someone else's word from long ago). Mr. President, you're up next week. Don't screw it up! Talk to your VP so he'll tell you how it's done.
Paul, I think I liked your original post-debate analysis more. It was more succinct and to the point. More eloquent, if you will.
I was full of nerves before this debate, though I had a spark of hope from past experience of how a passionate, unrestrained Biden could outshine and outdebate anyone short of Bill Clinton. I'll confess that, at best, I'd thought it'd be a draw. (Which it WASN'T!) So when I finally showed up half an hour in and heard Biden running all over Ryan, calling him out on every single thing - sometimes mid-sentence - and challenging him every single time, passionately (that word again) and clearly - and the moderator asking actual, honest-to-god, follow-up questions (holy crap!), and Ryan doing all he could from jumping up, grabbing his chair, and throwing it at Biden, well, I had to wonder if this wasn't an alternate reality, if what I was watching was actually true. I hate to say it, but my neighbor next door, if he was home, might have thought that I was watching the football game.
The only bad part was seeing Politico and all the major networks doing all they could to make a story of Biden supposedly being too rude and going too far and smirking too much. (Where were they last week?) Whatever. We all saw the debate and we know who pays their bills. I hope they play all the clips they want of Biden Being Mean, 'cause that'll just show Biden calling out Ryan on his bullcrap and kicking his butt. The more clips the better.
So thank you, Vice President Biden, and I'm sorry I "misunderstimated" you (to use someone else's word from long ago). Mr. President, you're up next week. Don't screw it up! Talk to your VP so he'll tell you how it's done.
15
Ryan did OK, he didn't fuck up and didn't upstage the top of the ticket.
Biden laughed too much, you fanboys ate it up but it won't sway any independents. On the splitscreen he looks maniacal.
And, as even you girls have noticed, the better Joe does the more wistful it leaves the base......
Biden laughed too much, you fanboys ate it up but it won't sway any independents. On the splitscreen he looks maniacal.
And, as even you girls have noticed, the better Joe does the more wistful it leaves the base......
16
Joe threw the Intelligence Community under the bus on Libya.
The Spooks won't be amused.
And will be sure the Truth leaks out.......
The Spooks won't be amused.
And will be sure the Truth leaks out.......
17
Loved your analysis of the debate, Paul (though the Hulk clip seemed to capture the overall gist of things quite aptly, too...) Hopefully Obama was taking notes and can show up Romney just as thoroughly as Biden did Ryan tonight. *Crosses fingers*
19
And Joe was just looney when he was promising that they had it all under control on Iran's nuke.
Absolutely looney.
Obama couldn't protect the nations ambassador whose corpse was dragged through the street by a howling mob.
And he is going to stop Iran's bomb?
Absolutely looney.
Obama couldn't protect the nations ambassador whose corpse was dragged through the street by a howling mob.
And he is going to stop Iran's bomb?
20
The general feeling I get from my Google News gestalt is that the punditry is doing their damnedest to call it a draw. If that's not a pretty clear indication that commentators across the board have it in for the President this time around, I don't know what is. Crucifying President Obama for a lukewarm performance was silly enough. Trying to pretend Uncle Joe didn't put his boot up Paul Ryan's ass and shake it is just spluttering nonsense.
21
Biden is far from the joke the GOP (and others, though I admit I love the Onion's take on him too) make him out to be.
While it wasn't a huge blowout - It was a pretty solid Biden win. I'm pretty happy to see it. (well, read about it - I had to work).
While it wasn't a huge blowout - It was a pretty solid Biden win. I'm pretty happy to see it. (well, read about it - I had to work).
22
The Hulk clip is horrible, an appropriate representation of what so much CGI graphics are, just laughable.
I actually kinda like Ryan, even while I don't agree with the vast majority of what he says. I feel like he probably has the most genuine conviction as any of the four. I'd probably rank them Ryan, Obama, Biden.....
.....
.....
Mitt.
I actually kinda like Ryan, even while I don't agree with the vast majority of what he says. I feel like he probably has the most genuine conviction as any of the four. I'd probably rank them Ryan, Obama, Biden.....
.....
.....
Mitt.
23
If you really buy into to this charade of bread and circuses, watching these two snakes compete in a marathon of lies, I have a bridge here in Portland I'd like to sell you. Contact me at my business email: youareafacileidiot@gmail.com if you're interested.
By the way, do you know who drafted the core provisions which were eventually included in the Patriot Act??? I'll give you a hint, he was at tonight's debate:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/j…
By the way, do you know who drafted the core provisions which were eventually included in the Patriot Act??? I'll give you a hint, he was at tonight's debate:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/j…
24
@9 - So it would seem. The CNBC, AP, and CNN polls all give it to Ryan though. Point stands: not a creaming.
27
A passionate, thoughtful, experienced advocate for the people went out there and reduced a highly esteemed Republican to the whinging punk kid he really is.
You know how you can tell when a writer thinks he's really the shit? When he uses Britishisms like "whinge." Paul Constant, you are every last bit as much of a Kool-Aid drinking lickspittle as Steve Doocy on Fox News. Keep it up, and you'll have a great future on network news, maybe as Rachel Maddow's fluffer.
You know how you can tell when a writer thinks he's really the shit? When he uses Britishisms like "whinge." Paul Constant, you are every last bit as much of a Kool-Aid drinking lickspittle as Steve Doocy on Fox News. Keep it up, and you'll have a great future on network news, maybe as Rachel Maddow's fluffer.
28
#20, CNN's poll had it at a draw, and so did their audience of undecideds. My take is that Biden was better on substance, but his whole "Kid, get off my lawn" act was more than a little much.
29
"I've never met two guys more down on America across the board. We're told everything is going badly. 5.2 million new jobs, private sector jobs. We need more. But 5.2 million. If they would get out of the way and let us pass the tax cut for the middle class and make it permanent. If they would get out of the way and pass the jobs bill. If they would get out of the way and let us allow 14 million people who are struggling to stay in their homes because their mortgages are upside down but they never missed a mortgage payment."
Biden added: "Just get out of the way. Stop talking about how you care about people. Show me something. Show me a policy. Show me a policy where you take responsibility."
Game, set, match.
Biden added: "Just get out of the way. Stop talking about how you care about people. Show me something. Show me a policy. Show me a policy where you take responsibility."
Game, set, match.
32
@31 - no, it isn't. In this case, it means that it is POSSIBLE that it is. It's just as possible that the true figure is five points MORE in favor of Ryan as well as Biden. The universe of possibilities that that poll could represent given its margin of error is heavily weighted in Ryan's favor.
Point stands: not a creaming.
Point stands: not a creaming.
33
By the way, the Kool-Aid drinkers will undoubtedly be last to notice, but the Obama-Biden campaign has a real problem on the negativity front. ALL of their TV ads are negative, and now matter how spunky either of them are, they are both on the defensive.
I know what the reaction to this will be, but the polls are going to start to reflect this problem pretty soon. Obama and Biden aren't even bothering to invent positive reasons to support their re-election. It's a weird dilemma. The "attack window" has been closing, and Obama missed what might have been the last shot he had.
If he goes after Romney with his claws out next week, it may well be too late.
I know what the reaction to this will be, but the polls are going to start to reflect this problem pretty soon. Obama and Biden aren't even bothering to invent positive reasons to support their re-election. It's a weird dilemma. The "attack window" has been closing, and Obama missed what might have been the last shot he had.
If he goes after Romney with his claws out next week, it may well be too late.
35
I early on was looking forward to this debate. It seemed clear to me that the Biden of four years ago would have mopped the floor with this guy and the Biden I've been seeing the last few months wasn't doing anything to change my opinion.
Still, I wasn't expecting such a beat down. Biden has brains and moxy and heart. I know I'm biased, but Romney and Ryan just seem like assholes to me. (we still have an uphill battle to talk about climate change and protect Social Security from Obama's wish to engage in Catfood Commission approved compromise, but first we got to reelect the sane ones.)
Finally, I want to say for those who think Ryan showed calm and poise, that what you were seeing is the face of a man used to humbly boot licking the rich and powerful as their gopher boy.
Still, I wasn't expecting such a beat down. Biden has brains and moxy and heart. I know I'm biased, but Romney and Ryan just seem like assholes to me. (we still have an uphill battle to talk about climate change and protect Social Security from Obama's wish to engage in Catfood Commission approved compromise, but first we got to reelect the sane ones.)
Finally, I want to say for those who think Ryan showed calm and poise, that what you were seeing is the face of a man used to humbly boot licking the rich and powerful as their gopher boy.
36
"Paul Ryan, though, is admired by many Republican politicians as the brains of the Republican Party."
Really? He's the brains? Wow.
Really? He's the brains? Wow.
37
You know one side has really lost when all they can say is "see, the polls (which we only trust when they support us) say we weren't completley and totally creamed!"
Biden made a clear case that neither Ryan nor the GOP has any new ideas, no idea what is even going on in the middle east, and they all refuse to even acknowledge any year prior to 2009 when he-who-shall-not-be-named was president, as they roll out the same tired ideas that crashed the economy.
Ryan had tired talking points and repetitive rhetoric, Biden had clear vision and a willingness to call Ryan out on his pathological lying. Do people really not notice that neither Ryan nor Romney will make any statement about what their specific plans are or what they specifically plan to do? Very frustrating.
Biden made a clear case that neither Ryan nor the GOP has any new ideas, no idea what is even going on in the middle east, and they all refuse to even acknowledge any year prior to 2009 when he-who-shall-not-be-named was president, as they roll out the same tired ideas that crashed the economy.
Ryan had tired talking points and repetitive rhetoric, Biden had clear vision and a willingness to call Ryan out on his pathological lying. Do people really not notice that neither Ryan nor Romney will make any statement about what their specific plans are or what they specifically plan to do? Very frustrating.
38
You almost wouldn't know Biden was the guy who thought we should outlaw encryption. The grandfather of the DMCA really whiped that war mongering child in the debate last night.
39
Who is this sad "Mister G" character, and when did he decide to be the GOP shill? Did GDFR stop showing up?
40
@39: I am waiting for Gay Dude to be the fourth GOP shill who will apply the exact same "cop giving a speeding ticket" analogy which must have been featured on some blog somewhere.
Funny how people who need to make a kool-aid drinking reference in every comment just mimic whatever the right wing blogs tell them to.
They are trying to spin Ryan's inability to speak knowingly on issues as essentially a police officer politely listening to the nonsense ramblings of an old man who is trying to get out of a ticket. Utter nonsense. Ryan could just smirk and spout the same tired lines because he had nothing to add to anything.
Can someone give me one specific policy point Ryan made? I can wait.
Funny how people who need to make a kool-aid drinking reference in every comment just mimic whatever the right wing blogs tell them to.
They are trying to spin Ryan's inability to speak knowingly on issues as essentially a police officer politely listening to the nonsense ramblings of an old man who is trying to get out of a ticket. Utter nonsense. Ryan could just smirk and spout the same tired lines because he had nothing to add to anything.
Can someone give me one specific policy point Ryan made? I can wait.
41
I didn't watch the debate, but I did see a few seconds in passing of Ryan whining about being interrupted by Biden. It was not... manly. More like "Mommy, this mean guy is calling me on my lies. No fair!"
42
One thing I have learned about politicians over the last several years is that if their lips are moving, they are lying.
www.UA-Privacy.tk
www.UA-Privacy.tk
43
I would make one correction...... Ron Paul is the only republican with any brains and the GOP committed suicide when they cheated him out of his delegates , out of his floor nomination at the RNC..... If Paul Ryans brains were dynamite he wouldn't have enough to blow his nose.
44
Many say America needs a third party ... But I think what America needs a real Second Party instead of the ONE Party we have now that pretend to disagree on silly issues and give us the illusion of a choice.
45
CNBC Poll now almost a draw 48 to 47 with 5 undecided. CNN says Ryan all the way. As the day goes on and people realize that what they saw was a Joe Biden trying to defect the President's Dismal Record.
46
One thing I want to point out here -- Biden owned the debate using techniques that weren't available to Obama. Biden could get away with erring on the side of aggression and rudeness. Obama couldn't. No matter how much we might have wanted to see him HULK SMASH! Romney, it would not ultimately have been to his benefit.
The punditry's bizarre reaction alone should prove that. In punditland, Romney "won" by being an aggressive "alpha male" -- and Biden "lost" or "tied" by doing the same thing.
The punditry's bizarre reaction alone should prove that. In punditland, Romney "won" by being an aggressive "alpha male" -- and Biden "lost" or "tied" by doing the same thing.
47
@44 "that pretend to disagree on silly issues and give us the illusion of a choice"
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess... you're a white, straight, dude, right?
Because there might be many areas where there's hardly a difference between parties, but when it comes to protecting and advancing civil rights for non-whites, non-heterosexuals, and non-dudes, the Democrats are a consistently better choice.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess... you're a white, straight, dude, right?
Because there might be many areas where there's hardly a difference between parties, but when it comes to protecting and advancing civil rights for non-whites, non-heterosexuals, and non-dudes, the Democrats are a consistently better choice.
48
@2 The previous occupant of the White House couldn't even speak properly, let alone debate. What's your concern again?
Rmoney's cheat sheet helped him along, though Obama was definitely having an off night. I suspect he'll kick Romney's garment-covered ass this next time.
Rmoney's cheat sheet helped him along, though Obama was definitely having an off night. I suspect he'll kick Romney's garment-covered ass this next time.
50
Binden won hands down. Anyone who says otherwise has a personal bias and their option should be treated as such.
51
@33
Concern troll is concerned, trolling.
The Republicans said let GM fail, we can't leave Afghanistan, no you can't have health insurance, a phony debt crisis looms, war with Iran is inevitable, 47% of Americans are victims and takers, and they cheer every time there is bad economic news because the Senate Majority Leader's number one job -- all Republicans' number one job -- is to defeat the President, not help the economy.
And when you refute this gloomy bullshit, it's a "problem on the negativity front".
The truth is that the standard media narrative is that Democrats are supposed to be doormats. It's exactly like how when women stand up for themselves, fratboy assholes say they're being a "bitch". Conservatives enjoy this built in advantage that lets them get away with lying every day.
Expect to hear the same refrain: every time Republican lies get fact checked by Democrats: "You can't say that! It's not allowed to say that! They're saying this to cling to their privilege.
Concern troll is concerned, trolling.
The Republicans said let GM fail, we can't leave Afghanistan, no you can't have health insurance, a phony debt crisis looms, war with Iran is inevitable, 47% of Americans are victims and takers, and they cheer every time there is bad economic news because the Senate Majority Leader's number one job -- all Republicans' number one job -- is to defeat the President, not help the economy.
And when you refute this gloomy bullshit, it's a "problem on the negativity front".
The truth is that the standard media narrative is that Democrats are supposed to be doormats. It's exactly like how when women stand up for themselves, fratboy assholes say they're being a "bitch". Conservatives enjoy this built in advantage that lets them get away with lying every day.
Expect to hear the same refrain: every time Republican lies get fact checked by Democrats: "You can't say that! It's not allowed to say that! They're saying this to cling to their privilege.
53
A friend of mine said this debate made up his mind because of one instance (I was unable to watch it: work) which he summarized as a person asking if they ever feel shitty about the attack ads that they are forced to work with.
Biden said it's an unfortunate part of the game and while they must all play it, he doesn't like it.
Ryan said he basically really enjoyed that part of the campaigning.
That really does speak volumes to their character if my friend summarized it correctly.
Biden said it's an unfortunate part of the game and while they must all play it, he doesn't like it.
Ryan said he basically really enjoyed that part of the campaigning.
That really does speak volumes to their character if my friend summarized it correctly.
54
One bit I particuarly like is, after a long and touching story about Mitt Romney helping someone ( I hope it's true ) by Ryan, Biden didn't argue but pointed out (paraphrase): a good man can be a lousy president and here's why that's true for Romney.
Weird thought: both Romney and Obama have unusual names. Young, they both went with less odd handles than their given names. Barack Obama grew out of it. Willard Romney didn't. Probably means nothing but I find it interesting.
Weird thought: both Romney and Obama have unusual names. Young, they both went with less odd handles than their given names. Barack Obama grew out of it. Willard Romney didn't. Probably means nothing but I find it interesting.
55
Is "the polls" shorthand for the CNN poll of 381 respondents identified and contacted prior to the October 11 debate?
Does that mean, to the people who cling to "the polls spoke" notion, only 381 people watched the debate? Or does it mean that an obvious victory took place, but people who are so partisan as to deny the victory took place are pushing the lie that one poll of 381 respondents as "the polls"?
Does that mean, to the people who cling to "the polls spoke" notion, only 381 people watched the debate? Or does it mean that an obvious victory took place, but people who are so partisan as to deny the victory took place are pushing the lie that one poll of 381 respondents as "the polls"?
56
Don't take this reply as coming from a right-wing troll, because I'm anything but right-leaning. However:
> He laughed in Ryan's face and left him speechless.
Ryan kept calm throughout the entire debate and often had the better one-liners.
> Biden out-argued, out-spoke, and out-thought the smartest man the Republicans have to offer, and he did so armed with the courage of his convictions.
No, he didn't. Biden fumbled over his words often and many of his rebuttals either failed, or didn't happen. Everyone says he was calling Ryan on lies, which is true, but he wasn't adequately explaining why they were lies.
> Pundits will argue that the debate was a tie.
So does the polling data (accounting for margins of error).
All Biden did was fire up the base. And that is really all that matters. That is the news story. He fired up the base.
> He laughed in Ryan's face and left him speechless.
Ryan kept calm throughout the entire debate and often had the better one-liners.
> Biden out-argued, out-spoke, and out-thought the smartest man the Republicans have to offer, and he did so armed with the courage of his convictions.
No, he didn't. Biden fumbled over his words often and many of his rebuttals either failed, or didn't happen. Everyone says he was calling Ryan on lies, which is true, but he wasn't adequately explaining why they were lies.
> Pundits will argue that the debate was a tie.
So does the polling data (accounting for margins of error).
All Biden did was fire up the base. And that is really all that matters. That is the news story. He fired up the base.
57
I've always liked Mr Biden more than President Obama, based on where I think their priorities on economic and foreign policy issues lie. And yes, I do think Mr Biden came across as more credible than Congressman Ryan in last nights 'debate.' BUT for all the liberals of the world celebrating an apparent win for Team Obama... Biden signaled pretty clearly that the Obama administration is on board with cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
See http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2012/10…
It is an inconvenient truth - Obama and now I guess Biden are willing to do the heavy lifting of jump starting the process of dismantling Social Security. Because, make no mistake, Obama is a Wall Street shill and has been from day 1. So yea, celebrate now while you can. Save your tears for when Obama aggressively keeps pushing the republican agenda of dismantling Social Security and Medicare. Just don't act all surprised when it happens.
See http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2012/10…
It is an inconvenient truth - Obama and now I guess Biden are willing to do the heavy lifting of jump starting the process of dismantling Social Security. Because, make no mistake, Obama is a Wall Street shill and has been from day 1. So yea, celebrate now while you can. Save your tears for when Obama aggressively keeps pushing the republican agenda of dismantling Social Security and Medicare. Just don't act all surprised when it happens.
58
The narrative you're trying to push is as transparent as it is ludicrous. Let me try to get something through your thick kool-aid soaked skull. Just because Biden laughs at Ryan doesn't mean he "beat the shit out of him". You've really done nothing here but expose yourself as an ideologue. Whomever pays you to "write words" may want to rethink that wisdom.
59
Ever notice how dry your mouth gets when you are lying or talking out of you ass? Boy, Ryan drank a whole lot during the debate. He even did the swishy swishy a couple of times to rewetten his whole mouth.
60
#27 I think you'll find that ''whinge'' is in fact a word from the English language. It is not what you describe as a ''britishism'', which is itself an ''Americanism''.
61
I like how when the Reps win...it wasn't scripted, but when they lose, biden was scripted and rehearsed...how fucking stupid are you to not read the ridiculousness you type.
62
All of you who said you didn't catch the event should just YouTube it...
That's where I watched..
That's where I watched..
63
Biden did better than expected in that he didn't say anything extremely stupid. Other than that, he was laughing at some joke that only he was aware of and ultimately looked like a clown to everyone but people who already support Obama and his failed policies.
So if the WH was reporting exactly what they were told about Libya as he said, why did the State Department say that the video was never considered to be part of the issue? This just demonstrates how this administration is incompetent and dishonest.
Did you hear the latest good news about Obama's green energy efforts: After the American solar panel company wasted taxpayer money and was on the verge of bankruptcy, it is being saved by a Chinese billionaire. Great use of US Taxpayer's money! Maybe instead of borrowing money from China, we should just give it to them. Oh wait, we are. Millions of dollars of stimulus funds have gone overseas. Guess who was supposed to oversee that every dollar was well spent: Joe Biden.
So if the WH was reporting exactly what they were told about Libya as he said, why did the State Department say that the video was never considered to be part of the issue? This just demonstrates how this administration is incompetent and dishonest.
Did you hear the latest good news about Obama's green energy efforts: After the American solar panel company wasted taxpayer money and was on the verge of bankruptcy, it is being saved by a Chinese billionaire. Great use of US Taxpayer's money! Maybe instead of borrowing money from China, we should just give it to them. Oh wait, we are. Millions of dollars of stimulus funds have gone overseas. Guess who was supposed to oversee that every dollar was well spent: Joe Biden.
65
Poor #39. Anyone who doesn't drink his Kool-Aid is a "G.O.P. shill." Must be nice inside that bubble. Biden was much better on the issues, but his demeanor left a lot to be desired. He reminded me of Clint Eastwood at the Republican Convention. Was he so mad because of what Ryan said, or did he notice his Depends filling up? How old is he, anyway? 90?
68
#47, even in Seattle there are a whole lot more white straight dude voters than multisexual minority trannies. Better get used to it.
69
So. Last night we learned that the stronger, more substantive, half of the Obama Biden ticket is Crazy Old Uncle Joe. That's more than a little terrifying.
71
I'm really troubled by the sudden resurgence of the Kool-Aid metaphor. Fortunately the outbreak appears to be confined to Slog, as this is the first place I've seen it on the internet in over 4 years. I thought it had been completely eradicated after the 2008 Democratic primaries, but it looks like it may have been carried in by the recent wave of newly registered commenters.
In any case it spreads fast -- there are several cases in this thread alone -- so be careful out there, people.
In any case it spreads fast -- there are several cases in this thread alone -- so be careful out there, people.
72
I really feel sorry for all you libs out there. Biden came across as an angry old white man who may stir up his base but his performance certainly doesn't play well with women voters and independents, especially in Mid Western battleground states. The fact that Obama now only has 7 states locked up (RealClearPolitics.com) shows just how far this thing has slipped away. WIth Florida, NC and Virginia now going Romney's way, this thing is all but over. Romney will win in a landslide with 339 elctoral votes. Hope y'all stay giddy about crazy Joe's performance but it did more damage than good with the voters Obama needs to sway his way. At least it got his base a little fired up... I guess you have to start somewhere! :)
74
@73, If you could learn how to leave a comment without resorting to ad hominem attacks, that would be ideal.
75
@ 70
See @ 28 and 31. Also, see your absolute reliance on name calling and a generally nasty demeanor. Those with the truth on their side never need to resort to that.
See @ 28 and 31. Also, see your absolute reliance on name calling and a generally nasty demeanor. Those with the truth on their side never need to resort to that.
76
#74, has anyone ever called you a candy-ass little whinger? No? Well I just did. And because I used the British spelling for "whine," my ad hominem attack is so very classy, wouldn't you agree? I'm pure Paul Constant would.
77
#75, what was "dishonest" about my posts 28 and 31? As far as a "nasty demeanor," if you think "those with the truth on their side never need to resort to that," then you must really despise Biden's performance last night, because the old man was nothing if not "nasty."
78
Oh, and as for the name calling and nasty demeanor, you might pause to reflect on the headline of the article we're all commenting on.
79
…the end of an error !
We needed a bigger-than-life President – we got a Dope smoking, Coke snorting, Radical Left wing Chicago thug that has spent his life surrounded and tutored by American haters and Marxist!
We needed a well-grounded stable President – we got a certifiable narcissist.
We needed bold leadership – we got a teleprompter
We needed a seasoned hand – we got a hand in our pockets
We needed a champion for American citizens... we got a champion for the invading horde of Illegal Aliens
We needed a skilled bridge builder – we got a class-warfare specialist and inciter-in-chief.
We needed practical, proven policies – we got socialist dogma and monumental waste
We needed an inspirational visionary – we got an ideologically blinded, left learning-impaired radical.
We needed a Constitutional champion – we got a domestic enemy of the Constitution.
We needed a restrained, respected and intimidating warrior – we got groveling, bowing, Barney Fife
We needed a patriot – we got G. D. America, G. D. America, G. D. America.
We needed someone to unshackle our economy – we got someone who is a friend to our enemies and an enemy to our businesses
We needed a president beyond color – we got a green president embracing every whim and myth ever spoken by the kook environmental fringe.
We needed mature, principled leadership – we got a petulant, lying, whining, blaming, sulking, accusing, excusing, lazy, man-child.
It is a national disgrace that someone this incompetent, racist, and an American hating Socialist could be elected to the office of the Presidency
We needed a bigger-than-life President – we got a Dope smoking, Coke snorting, Radical Left wing Chicago thug that has spent his life surrounded and tutored by American haters and Marxist!
We needed a well-grounded stable President – we got a certifiable narcissist.
We needed bold leadership – we got a teleprompter
We needed a seasoned hand – we got a hand in our pockets
We needed a champion for American citizens... we got a champion for the invading horde of Illegal Aliens
We needed a skilled bridge builder – we got a class-warfare specialist and inciter-in-chief.
We needed practical, proven policies – we got socialist dogma and monumental waste
We needed an inspirational visionary – we got an ideologically blinded, left learning-impaired radical.
We needed a Constitutional champion – we got a domestic enemy of the Constitution.
We needed a restrained, respected and intimidating warrior – we got groveling, bowing, Barney Fife
We needed a patriot – we got G. D. America, G. D. America, G. D. America.
We needed someone to unshackle our economy – we got someone who is a friend to our enemies and an enemy to our businesses
We needed a president beyond color – we got a green president embracing every whim and myth ever spoken by the kook environmental fringe.
We needed mature, principled leadership – we got a petulant, lying, whining, blaming, sulking, accusing, excusing, lazy, man-child.
It is a national disgrace that someone this incompetent, racist, and an American hating Socialist could be elected to the office of the Presidency
80
@ 77/78, everything was dishonest. If you think I would believe, for a moment, that you would say the exact same thing if the numbers were reversed, instead of celebrating your boy Ryan's triumph, you're on the wrong blog.
As far as the title of the post? It's not really nasty at all. Sure, "beat the shit" is strongly worded, but it's not like Paul wrote "Biden Mouthfucks Ryans And Nuts In His Face." (You want something as nasty as your attitude, well there it is.)
As far as the title of the post? It's not really nasty at all. Sure, "beat the shit" is strongly worded, but it's not like Paul wrote "Biden Mouthfucks Ryans And Nuts In His Face." (You want something as nasty as your attitude, well there it is.)
81
@76 As a matter of fact I have a tramp stamp that reads "Candy-Ass Little Whinger" in Comic Sans. This is awkward -- do I, um, know you?
82
BTW, Mister G, just accept that you're exposed and not to be taken seriously. Go register a new sockpuppet account and don't make the same mistakes next time. You might even trick someone into believing you're legit for a while.
84
Look. Mr. G. If you feel compelled to create sock puppets to make some sort of point then your point is clearly lost and your arguing in bad faith and philosophical retreat. Rather than do all that take a few minutes to actually re-consider your so-called principles because they have led you down a dead-end.
That's all a polite way of saying you're a vacuous idiot and the grown-ups can ignore you.
That's all a polite way of saying you're a vacuous idiot and the grown-ups can ignore you.
85
hey guys, just FYI "Mister G" is a career troll over at Crosscut, and if you do a little searching you can find him on many other sites. He uses the name "NotFan," and talks about mysterious "progressives" and other imaginary folks ruining his world in "scare quotes" constantly. I think he got banned from the CHS blog for insinuating that a cyclist killed by a car driver deserved to die.
He is immune to logic, at least pretends to be heartless and comes here just to troll. If you engage him he will stick around, but if he is ignored he will eventually get bored.
:)
He is immune to logic, at least pretends to be heartless and comes here just to troll. If you engage him he will stick around, but if he is ignored he will eventually get bored.
:)
86
"Who won the debate? Billionaires, when Martha Raddatz said SS & Medicare are going bankrupt, and Biden didn't argue"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/…
The neoliberal duopoly marches on to finish repealing the New Deal and liberal sycophants approve ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/…
The neoliberal duopoly marches on to finish repealing the New Deal and liberal sycophants approve ...
87
What planet are you people on? Granted Biden is a smooth talker as he's been in the game forever but loud over actual substance isn't what you call a victory. CNN poll gives the win to Ryan by 30 points from independents. More, the fact checkers are hard at work today and its time to hide Biden again for his non-facts and out and out lies. In a similar fashion Ryan got spanked on the Iran nuke enrichment stat. But interruptions, faces, breathing hard is what’s lasting in the minds of those who hadn't made up their minds. For those of you who think Biden won, you were going to give that to him no matter what after the shellacking Obama took the other night. Today 7 point lead by Romney - I don't trust the polls. It'll be a landslide.
88
This article is the biggest misconception i've ever seen. Biden was a jerk. Obiously you don't how to read body language.
89
If you think I would believe, for a moment, that you would say the exact same thing if the numbers were reversed, instead of celebrating your boy Ryan's triumph, you're on the wrong blog.
The Kool-Aid drinkers just can't stand it when someone isn't delusional. "My boy" Ryan. If you only knew.
The Kool-Aid drinkers just can't stand it when someone isn't delusional. "My boy" Ryan. If you only knew.
90
#85, are you talking about Brian Fairbrother, the idiot bicyclist who tumbled down a slight of stairs while he was riding and texting at the same time? Yes, he got what was coming to him, the dipshit.
91
p.s.: Same goes for the dork on two wheels who raced down Pike Street, ran a red light, smacked into a panel van and left his brains on the street. And then there was the sandwich delivery boy who pedaled his brakeless fixie through the U District at rush hour and didn't notice the car turning into his lane. He had it coming too, just like the rest of the reckless bicyclists who think it won't happen to them.
92
CNN poll gives the win to Ryan by 30 points from independents.
Bullshit. CNN's poll was 48-44% for Ryan among all debate watchers. Among their "undecided" studio audience, it was one-third Ryan, one-third Biden, one-third undecided. The percentage result was within the 5% margin of error, so it was a statistical tie.
Just like Romney's 2-point lead in Gallup's daily tracking poll of likely voters, and Obama's 2-point lead in Gallup's daily tracking poll of registered voters. Both of those results are within the margin of error, which is 2% for the likely voters and 3% for the registered voters. So it's a statistical tie in both measurements.
Of course, the various stupid Kool-Aid drinkers, whether they be the lefties at The Slog and Daily Kos, or the wingnuts at places like FreeRepublic or The Daily Caller, only hear their own echoes, and won't want to admit any of it.
Bullshit. CNN's poll was 48-44% for Ryan among all debate watchers. Among their "undecided" studio audience, it was one-third Ryan, one-third Biden, one-third undecided. The percentage result was within the 5% margin of error, so it was a statistical tie.
Just like Romney's 2-point lead in Gallup's daily tracking poll of likely voters, and Obama's 2-point lead in Gallup's daily tracking poll of registered voters. Both of those results are within the margin of error, which is 2% for the likely voters and 3% for the registered voters. So it's a statistical tie in both measurements.
Of course, the various stupid Kool-Aid drinkers, whether they be the lefties at The Slog and Daily Kos, or the wingnuts at places like FreeRepublic or The Daily Caller, only hear their own echoes, and won't want to admit any of it.
93
Mr. Constant,
"Joe Biden Beat the Shit Out of the Brains of the Republican Party Tonight, and He Did It for You"
This is about the stupidest thing I've read in a long, long time. But thanks for the laugh though. Do you honestly think that Barry, Joe, or any other Washington D.C. scumbag gives a RAT's ASS about you (us)?
How long do you think the Dems & Repubs have had control of the US government? I don't remember exactly but I did look into it some time ago & I'm pretty sure it's been over a 100 years.
Now ask your self this, has the US federal government ever been reduced in size as promised? With possibly a tiny glitch hear or there the answer is NO!
Now ask your self this, has the US federal debt ever decrease in size in the last 100 years? Again, with possibly a tiny glitch hear or there the answer is STILL NO!
Now ask your self this, has there ever been an attempt by the government or ANY elected douchebag to restore liberty as described by the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Again, with a few rare exceptions... If you've got a half ounce of gray matter between your ears you should be able to figure it out.
Only thing I can come up with without knowing you, Mr. Constant, is perhaps you have receive a "Obama phone" or other "free stuff" from this administration" but let me tell you, nothing is ever free from governments. It always starts small then leads to servitude, then eventual enslavement.
START THINKING!!!
"Joe Biden Beat the Shit Out of the Brains of the Republican Party Tonight, and He Did It for You"
Thanks, I'm still laughing.
The Discerner
"Joe Biden Beat the Shit Out of the Brains of the Republican Party Tonight, and He Did It for You"
This is about the stupidest thing I've read in a long, long time. But thanks for the laugh though. Do you honestly think that Barry, Joe, or any other Washington D.C. scumbag gives a RAT's ASS about you (us)?
How long do you think the Dems & Repubs have had control of the US government? I don't remember exactly but I did look into it some time ago & I'm pretty sure it's been over a 100 years.
Now ask your self this, has the US federal government ever been reduced in size as promised? With possibly a tiny glitch hear or there the answer is NO!
Now ask your self this, has the US federal debt ever decrease in size in the last 100 years? Again, with possibly a tiny glitch hear or there the answer is STILL NO!
Now ask your self this, has there ever been an attempt by the government or ANY elected douchebag to restore liberty as described by the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Again, with a few rare exceptions... If you've got a half ounce of gray matter between your ears you should be able to figure it out.
Only thing I can come up with without knowing you, Mr. Constant, is perhaps you have receive a "Obama phone" or other "free stuff" from this administration" but let me tell you, nothing is ever free from governments. It always starts small then leads to servitude, then eventual enslavement.
START THINKING!!!
"Joe Biden Beat the Shit Out of the Brains of the Republican Party Tonight, and He Did It for You"
Thanks, I'm still laughing.
The Discerner
94
What debate was this? Did they have another one? The one I saw Paul Ryan Destroyed Joe Biden and Biden looked like a clown laughing at the difficult struggles of the American people. I was watching on PBS. What were you watching (or perhaps smoking)?
95
"One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats, and 34% identifying themselves as independents."
Thus, the CNN poll sampled more R than D, which is opposite most reputable poll nowadays, yet MisterG makes sure to spew the R line about Ryan winning the CNN poll as if it were meaningful.
"Winning the debate" for corporate media stooges means little more than looking younger or whatever is their gauge of mass appeal. In any case, nothing new under the sun for several decades now: between wingnuts and yes-men of lesser evil we are certain to continue the undermining of what's left of the safety net.
Thus, the CNN poll sampled more R than D, which is opposite most reputable poll nowadays, yet MisterG makes sure to spew the R line about Ryan winning the CNN poll as if it were meaningful.
"Winning the debate" for corporate media stooges means little more than looking younger or whatever is their gauge of mass appeal. In any case, nothing new under the sun for several decades now: between wingnuts and yes-men of lesser evil we are certain to continue the undermining of what's left of the safety net.
96
Gosh #95, only a couple weeks ago it was the wingnuts whining about the partisan skew. Now the numbers go the other way and guess who's whining? Same with the moderators of the debate. Limbaugh's whining about Raddatz, and Democratic Kool-Aid drinkers whined about Lehrer. Funny how these things go.
Oops, I meant to write "whinging." Sounds so much more world-class when you say it in British, doesn't it?
Oops, I meant to write "whinging." Sounds so much more world-class when you say it in British, doesn't it?
97
It's obvious that Biden won, look at the flotsam that's washed in to protest otherwise.
@96 - Say sheeple for me, you know you want to - that's a real world class word. Don't believe the kool aid guzzlers who might say otherwise.
@96 - Say sheeple for me, you know you want to - that's a real world class word. Don't believe the kool aid guzzlers who might say otherwise.
98
Here comes the you-are-whining trump card that is a favorite in wingnutia where anyone fielding grievances is a "whiner". Way to elevate the debate to that of prepubescent demographics.
99
For those who know these debates are kabuki & want a real alternative to the murderous corporate duopoly:
Sunday, October 21st: SEATTLE -- Jill Stein with Kshama Sawant, Social Alternative candidate for State Legislator, and Jim Page, Seattle songwriter, poet and activist, and Dorli Rainey, Green Party of Seattle
7 to 9 PM
Great Hall in Town Hall Seattle
1119 8th Avenue
Sunday, October 21st: SEATTLE -- Jill Stein with Kshama Sawant, Social Alternative candidate for State Legislator, and Jim Page, Seattle songwriter, poet and activist, and Dorli Rainey, Green Party of Seattle
7 to 9 PM
Great Hall in Town Hall Seattle
1119 8th Avenue
101
Mr. Biden was a fool in the debate. Surely you people can't support the man. Rude, inconsiderate, fool! A laughing buffoon! Obama is toast.
102
Thank you for that info, Linda J @99!
Everyone should also know about the upcoming alternative party presidential debate on October 23rd featuring four alternative party presidential candidates: Rocky Anderson (Justice Party), Jill Stein (Green Party), Gary Johnson (Libertarian Party), and Virgil Goode (Constitution Party). This debate is being organized by the Free and Equal Elections Foundation.
Rocky Anderson and Jill Stein previously debated in Democracy Now!'s Expand the Debate event which coincided with the first private Democrat/Republican debate.
Jill Stein and Gary Johnson participated in a mini-debate on NPR a few days ago.
Rocky Anderson, Gary Jonshon, and Andre Barnett of the Reform Party debated in a HuffPost Live event on October 4th.
And Democracy Now! expanded the VP debate with Luis Rodriguez of the Justice Party and Cheri Honkala of the Green Party.
More...
Everyone should also know about the upcoming alternative party presidential debate on October 23rd featuring four alternative party presidential candidates: Rocky Anderson (Justice Party), Jill Stein (Green Party), Gary Johnson (Libertarian Party), and Virgil Goode (Constitution Party). This debate is being organized by the Free and Equal Elections Foundation.
Rocky Anderson and Jill Stein previously debated in Democracy Now!'s Expand the Debate event which coincided with the first private Democrat/Republican debate.
Jill Stein and Gary Johnson participated in a mini-debate on NPR a few days ago.
Rocky Anderson, Gary Jonshon, and Andre Barnett of the Reform Party debated in a HuffPost Live event on October 4th.
And Democracy Now! expanded the VP debate with Luis Rodriguez of the Justice Party and Cheri Honkala of the Green Party.
103
The VP Debate: What They Didn't Talk About (video via The Real News)
More...
JAY: Okay. Let's start, then. Give us your take on the foreign policy issues in terms of what was said and what wasn't said.
KIMBERLY: Well, what was not said was any notion that the United States does not have the right to throw its weight around in the world. The moderator in this debate and other debates in the past accepts that the United States has the right to determine who should lead Syria. There was no question that the United States should be in Afghanistan. The only question was for how long.
The moderator did not ask, did the United States have the right to tell Iran it can't enrich uranium. The only question she asked was, well, what's the best way to tell Iran what to do, what's the best way to interfere in their affairs. And Vice President Biden gave a very clear opening when he said that Iran doesn't have a bomb, isn't going to have one any time soon, can't do it. Then the question should be: well, then, what's the problem? Why are we imposing these terrible sanctions on Iran? He went on and on about how the sanctions are terrible. And they are. People in Iran are starving. Their currency has been devalued. They can't import food, can't import medicine. People in this country are being crushed by the United States, and all because of a nuclear weapon that the vice president admits they don't have.
JAY: And did you see any significant differences between Biden and Ryan on foreign—and by extracting that, Romney/Obama, on foreign policy issues?
KIMBERLY: No. The problem I think the Republicans have is that the Democrats sound very much like them and Obama has asserted the rights that previously presidents did, that we are an imperial power and are able to act like one. So, no, there isn't much difference. So the Romney people, all they can do is argue about Benghazi and what did we know and was it a terror attack, and not the fact that the people who attacked the consulate in Benghazi were the same people who were funded and armed by the United States when the United States decided to overthrow Gaddafi. And [incompr.] they are the same kind of people, the jihadists, that the United States is backing now in Syria in an effort to unseat Assad.
But there doesn't seem to be any question that the United States should—not only can, but should do these things and should ignore countries like Russia. It repeatedly came up that we can't go to the UN and do what Russia wants us to do, and nobody mentioned the fact that the Russians and the Chinese were made fools of in Libya by going along with the UN resolution allowing a no-fly zone, only to see the United States kill Gaddafi and take over that government. And that is something a good moderator could have asked: why won't the Russians go along with the United States in Syria? And the answer is that they're—you know, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
JAY: Right. Jennifer, what was your take on domestic economic issues in terms of what was said and what wasn't said?
TAUB: I was disappointed that so little attention was paid to why we are in the situation we're in and how—why the economy is being held back right now. In particular I'm thinking about the more than 11 billion households who owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth. These are the underwater homeowners. And this is holding back the economic recovery, because people who owe more on their homes than they're worth can't move to take a new job, they can't sell their home to monetize the savings for retirement. And this is a very serious issue. In addition, there has been more—approximately 5 million people who have lost their homes since the collapse of the housing bubble. And this housing bubble inflated due to years of deregulation and desupervision and predatory lending.
And the folks who brought this about, who engaged in this predatory and fraudulent lending, including the banks and Wall Street, have not been—have had years of record profits and bonuses and are now thriving. Meanwhile, the poor and the middle class are still suffering. And so it is troubling to me that that was not discussed.
Also I thought that it was clear that Joe Biden did win the debate. But he was greatly assisted by the moderator tonight, who was able to try to really pin down Paul Ryan on the gaps of the details. He's made a number of proposals on the domestic front, but refuses to [incompr.] the details. I mean, when he does provide details, Senator Biden was able to call him out, because they were often—he often provides false data to back up his plans.
JAY: I was a little surprised, too, that given that Ryan is for and Romney are for such deregulation of Wall Street, that Biden didn't play to that. It's not that the Obama administration record is so great on this, but I doubt Ryan would have critiqued them for being too weak regulators. But Biden didn't go after Ryan on the need for financial regulation and such, just completely ignored, as you say, one of the major factors that led to the crisis.
TAUB: You know, I do think it's the view of this administration and—that the job's been done. It's also the view of Wall Street, right? We just heard recently from the CEO of Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein, who was interviewed on NPR, saying, you know, let's just give it time and see if Dodd–Frank can work, when it's really clear that that legislation did not go far enough and that the implementation through regulation has been diluted and delayed. And so more needs to be done. But I don't think it's a strong point for the current administration and, you know, for the Obama and Biden campaign to really try to bring that off, because I don't think they can draw as much of a sharp contrast with Ryan and Romney on that point.
105
@104: It is cowards like you who keep us locked in perpetual subjugation to plutocratic control of our government.
106
#104, if the Democrats had half the cunning of the Republicans, they'd have found a way to elevate Gary Johnson, just as the Republicans found their ways to elevate Ralph Nader.
109
@ 104, you're the reason real change can't happen. Things don't go exactly your way? You cry, take your ball and go home.
That's third partyism in a nutshell. It's deserving of the full contempt one can muster. Ya fucking halfwit.
That's third partyism in a nutshell. It's deserving of the full contempt one can muster. Ya fucking halfwit.
110
Gee, "Matt from Denver," I thought you objeced to "name calling and a generally nasty demeanor," and believe that "those with the truth on their side never need to resort to that." Doesn't take long for a typical Seattle "progressive" to bear his meth-stained teeth, does it Matt?
111
Well, it looks like we have a new comment thread booster. Things were getting a little slow since Seattle Blues pouted off into the sunset. Welcome Mr. G! Long may you troll!
113
@109, Are you being serious because I wouldn't describe losing everything we fought for during the 20th century as "things not going exactly our way". We had the best opportunity in 30 years to stem the neoliberal tide and Democrats cheaply squandered it away, which is altogether not very surprising since they were among the major architects of deregulation, outsourcing and slashing the safety net.
114
I'm sorry . I never felt more guilty in my life for being white straight and middle class.. Maybe I should paint my face , suck some dicks and give all my shit away , then maybe my opinion might matter.
On the other hand it looks as if the Wise one agrees with me... There is only one party in this country http://www.policymic.com/articles/16447/…
On the other hand it looks as if the Wise one agrees with me... There is only one party in this country http://www.policymic.com/articles/16447/…
115
@112: Kool-Aid Mr G? Heavens I wouldn't touch the nasty stuff! That's whiskey drinking progressive bitch if you would be so kind, and again welcome aboard.
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