Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, October 9, 2012
2012 Mitt Romney Tries to Etch-A-Sketch His Stance on Abortion UPDATE: And Here Comes the Flip-Flop
Posted by Paul Constant on Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 5:29 PM
Mitt Romney said Tuesday he has no plans to push for legislation limiting abortion, a softer stance from a candidate who has said he would "get rid of" funding for Planned Parenthood and appoint Supreme Court who would overturn Roe v. Wade.
“There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda,” the Republican presidential nominee told The Des Moines Register in an interview.
He is just lying now. Romney spent most of the beginning of this year and the end of last year trying to convince Republicans of his pro-life bona fides. And now he's blithely making vague statements that he's hoping will be interpreted generously by uninformed pro-choice voters and ignored by the religious right. The sad part is, unless the media does their job and hits him on the dichotomy between primary Mitt and general-election Mitt, this shit could work.
UPDATE 5:25 PM: Conservative magazine National Review contacted Romney spokesperson Andrea Saul about Romney's statement, and she replied, “Governor Romney would of course support legislation aimed at providing greater protections for life.” I can't even tell if this is flip-flopping, a clarification of a candidate's gaffe, or just plain outright lies.
1
This lying of his is as huge a deal as all the other lying he's been doing for the last year or so.
If this guy were Pinocchio his nose would be circling the globe and poking him in the ass by now.
If this guy were Pinocchio his nose would be circling the globe and poking him in the ass by now.
2
In other words... I really don't think the voters give a shit whether he's lying or not. This election is about "vote for Obama" or "vote for not-Obama." Romney as the actual candidate is irrelavant.
3
Hitler, before he was in power: "There's no legislation with regards to a Jewish genocide and attempt at world domination that I'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda."
Maybe that's not an exact quote. And I'm certainly not trying to say Romney would be a Hitler. Really, I could have chosen my example better. Let's try again:
Garfield, the cat: "There's no legislation with regards to free lasagna being served every day in my kitchen that I'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda."
There, that's a bit better.
Maybe that's not an exact quote. And I'm certainly not trying to say Romney would be a Hitler. Really, I could have chosen my example better. Let's try again:
Garfield, the cat: "There's no legislation with regards to free lasagna being served every day in my kitchen that I'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda."
There, that's a bit better.
4
Totally agree. Nobody in the major networks or the mainstream press will call him on it, and he is totally lying, and it will work.
Romney is playing Mr. Moderate now and all the conservatives see it, but there's zero outrage because the election is a month away and the one single conviction they have is winning.
Mitt's right, though. If the media couldn't, or wouldn't, press him on his taxes and his personal finances, and his refusal to talk about his plans in more than general details, then they won't do anything about his brazen eleventh-hour lying. I really think they're too scared of what will happen to them, professionally, if they ruffle the feathers of conservatives.
Romney is playing Mr. Moderate now and all the conservatives see it, but there's zero outrage because the election is a month away and the one single conviction they have is winning.
Mitt's right, though. If the media couldn't, or wouldn't, press him on his taxes and his personal finances, and his refusal to talk about his plans in more than general details, then they won't do anything about his brazen eleventh-hour lying. I really think they're too scared of what will happen to them, professionally, if they ruffle the feathers of conservatives.
5
He was lying then, not now. Campaign on the fringes, govern in the middle. It's probably been true of the last 44 presidents.
6
Which piece of legislation, with regards to abortion, did he say would become part of his agenda and when did he say it?
I think I missed that…
I mean, I remember him saying he’s personally opposed to abortion (like Obama was personally opposed to gay marriage until it became politically expedient for him not to be) and I remember hearing lots of Democrats screaming that Romney would make abortion illegal overnight, but I don’t remember ever hearing Romney say he supported (or planned to call for) legislation to outlaw abortion. Please refresh my memory.
I think I missed that…
I mean, I remember him saying he’s personally opposed to abortion (like Obama was personally opposed to gay marriage until it became politically expedient for him not to be) and I remember hearing lots of Democrats screaming that Romney would make abortion illegal overnight, but I don’t remember ever hearing Romney say he supported (or planned to call for) legislation to outlaw abortion. Please refresh my memory.
7
You mean he did what every non-incumbent does to get his party's nomination? Someone get me to my fainting couch
8
@6, wow, what a sophisticated point. How are the trees looking dumbass.
Roe v. Wade should be reversed by a future Supreme Court ruling.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/10/oba…
Roe v. Wade should be reversed by a future Supreme Court ruling.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/10/oba…
9
A lie is telling a falsehood. A change of opinion is not a falsehood, or in Romney's case clarifying or modifying a stance on an issue is not a falsehood, hence it is not a lie.
If you always said you hated marinated artichoke hearts before but enjoy them now, you are not lying because you said you hated them before.
Ultimately, this is a good thing should he become president. So at least you should acknowledge that.
If you always said you hated marinated artichoke hearts before but enjoy them now, you are not lying because you said you hated them before.
Ultimately, this is a good thing should he become president. So at least you should acknowledge that.
10
Ha! It just occurred to me that Liberals have probably done more to portray Romney as an Extreme Conservative than he did. When you think about it, Liberals did a big part in convincing the Far Right that Romney is one of them while trying to scare everyone else. Now it’s easy for Romney to walk back to the middle. (Hell, he can even point to his Centrist positions when he ran for Governor as his record).
@5 nails it. If Obama’s team didn’t see that coming, they don’t deserve to win. Problem with building your campaign around defining your opponent as the boogie-man is if the boogie-man fails to show up for the general campaign.
@5 nails it. If Obama’s team didn’t see that coming, they don’t deserve to win. Problem with building your campaign around defining your opponent as the boogie-man is if the boogie-man fails to show up for the general campaign.
13
Interesting game theory here.
The more Independents go for Mitt, the less beholden he is to Social Conservatives.
And remember, based on the primary, he is not beholden to them at all!
So, the more you moderates get on the bandwagon, the more it tilts in your favor.
14
@11, didn't say it was. Romney's obviously trying to be clever with language to dupe people into voting for him, and that's obviously what the post was about asshole. It's embarassing that you limp dick losers are now back to the turd you abandoned when you thought it was sinking. apparently the astroturf checks are clearing again.
For your short memory: Romney heads a party whose platform includes opposition to abortion with exception, including in the case of the life of the mother. Romney obviously supports the war on women. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), has introduced bills to restrict access to abortion.
Romney told the Register he will restrict abortion through an executive order banning U.S. foreign aid money to be used for abortions. Romney has previously vowed to end taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood.
That's plenty of evidence of Romney's real stand on abortion. But, of course, he is the ultimate flip flopper. And he has his staff help him with his lying by putting about statements disclaiming what the candidate has said almost immediately after he has said them.
For your short memory: Romney heads a party whose platform includes opposition to abortion with exception, including in the case of the life of the mother. Romney obviously supports the war on women. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), has introduced bills to restrict access to abortion.
Romney told the Register he will restrict abortion through an executive order banning U.S. foreign aid money to be used for abortions. Romney has previously vowed to end taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood.
That's plenty of evidence of Romney's real stand on abortion. But, of course, he is the ultimate flip flopper. And he has his staff help him with his lying by putting about statements disclaiming what the candidate has said almost immediately after he has said them.
15
@13, and apparently the less his $5 trillion tax cut is going to cost. If you're a moderate who believes you can pay for a $5 trillion tax cut by cutting $400+ million to PBS, vote for Mittbot. Oh, by the way, your mortgage interest deduction is toast.
16
It really is amazing how much Mitt is willing to lie ... and how little penalty he is paying for it.
It's also interesting to watch slime like SROTU celebrate the idea that their Ken Doll will lie his way into power, and will inevitably enact all the American Taliban and Gilded Age legislation they crave, and the way these moral monsters will try to propagate Mitt's lies.
It's also interesting to watch slime like SROTU celebrate the idea that their Ken Doll will lie his way into power, and will inevitably enact all the American Taliban and Gilded Age legislation they crave, and the way these moral monsters will try to propagate Mitt's lies.
17
The sad part is, unless the media does their job and hits him on the dichotomy between primary Mitt and general-election Mitt, this shit could work.
You mean the same media owned by his insanely wealthy, tax cut-demanding supporters?
You mean the same media owned by his insanely wealthy, tax cut-demanding supporters?
18
@14
Flip flopping is not lying. No matter how often you say it is. Did Obama LIE!!! about his position on gay marriage? Or just flip flop? And besides, with Obama self-immolating, aren’t you glad his opponent is moderating his position on social issues that are important to you?
AND... Cutting, even eliminating, funding for something is not the same as, or even similar to, outlawing it. There are lots of perfectly legal activities that are not paid for by the Federal Government.
Romney wants to de-fund PBS also… but that won’t make Big Bird a fugitive.
Flip flopping is not lying. No matter how often you say it is. Did Obama LIE!!! about his position on gay marriage? Or just flip flop? And besides, with Obama self-immolating, aren’t you glad his opponent is moderating his position on social issues that are important to you?
AND... Cutting, even eliminating, funding for something is not the same as, or even similar to, outlawing it. There are lots of perfectly legal activities that are not paid for by the Federal Government.
Romney wants to de-fund PBS also… but that won’t make Big Bird a fugitive.
19
I know it's traditional for Republicans to run to the right in the primaries and move to the center in the general election, but Obama and Biden really need to call him on this bullshit, a lot!
20
@9 and others -- Romney is doing what lawyers and Mormons do. He's not lying, exactly, if you read his *precise* words. He is not aware _at this moment_ of any anti-abortion legislation that he would support. That doesn't mean he's changed his stance -- it means exactly what it says: there's nothing currently on the table that he would sign into law. If legislation came along that banned abortion, if he were able to get some legislator to introduce it, he would be in the clear in signing it because it wasn't on the table when he was running for President and made this statement.
Pay attention to his *exact* words, all of you. It's not precisely a lie but it's very, very reversible without actual flip-flopping. And I wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw him (me, a 105-pound 70 year old weakling) because it's standard practice in his set to speak within the letter of the law but operate far far outside the boundaries of the spirit.
That's what the media needs to call him on -- not the lies but the sliced and diced language that lets him present two (or more) faces at once.
Pay attention to his *exact* words, all of you. It's not precisely a lie but it's very, very reversible without actual flip-flopping. And I wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw him (me, a 105-pound 70 year old weakling) because it's standard practice in his set to speak within the letter of the law but operate far far outside the boundaries of the spirit.
That's what the media needs to call him on -- not the lies but the sliced and diced language that lets him present two (or more) faces at once.
21
An hour after that "don't worry, abortion won't be a big deal to me" statement he shook that Etch-a-Sketch and announced he would support pro-life legislation (in other words, laws that narrow abortion rights considerably): https://twitter.com/KatrinaTrinko/status…
23
Simple answer to shit filth pathological liar Romney. You play his own words about the subject over and over.
Here in Colorado Planned Parenthood is running a commercial that does just that. It shows clips of shit filth fucker pathological Romney saying he supports overturning Roe v. Wade and he'd get rid of funding for Planned Parenthood. The commercial repeats numerous times every night. It's very effective.
Here in Colorado Planned Parenthood is running a commercial that does just that. It shows clips of shit filth fucker pathological Romney saying he supports overturning Roe v. Wade and he'd get rid of funding for Planned Parenthood. The commercial repeats numerous times every night. It's very effective.
24
At least in Ron Paul, you have a principled man. This guy could not be more mendacious and machiavellian. Republicans who intend to vote for this slippery nut are holding their standards very, very low. It's one thing to be a "politician" by being strategic and using clever semantics, but another altogether to be a mere ghost of a human being -- a scrim upon which anything can be projected.
I honestly feel bad for republicans, having to advocate for/defend this character. I'm sure it's a strain on anyone's principles.
I honestly feel bad for republicans, having to advocate for/defend this character. I'm sure it's a strain on anyone's principles.
25
@18, it is lying, just like what you're doing on here. And, as I predicted, his staff is secretly taking back exactly what the lying sack of shit said earlier in the day. Romney's campaign could not be more dishonest.
27
I'm not sure he's lying. Lying means you actually know the truth but are saying an untruth. He doesn't know anything; he doesn't think anything; he doesn't think period. He's simply turning in a circle, hitting targets as he turns, and it's very successful in confusing the Dems. Because if they talk about what he says Monday, by the time their commercial's on air, he's saying something different. So the Dems are simply chasing him but never catching up with him. Probably a Rove technique.
28
When you are saying something with the knowledge your staff will just retract it later, that is the functional equivalent of lying. It is fundamentally dishonest, and trying to bury that important point is some stupid semantics is just Karl Rove shit.
30
"plain outright lies".
Romneybot 2.0 is a liar. Nothing more, nothing less. Will make a very interesting President.
Romneybot 2.0 is a liar. Nothing more, nothing less. Will make a very interesting President.
31
Everything out of his smiling face is either a flat out lie or enough of an obfuscation to allow someone who is inclined to believe that horseshit to do so.
32
Nice counter-arguments coming from our conservative commenters here:
"He's not lying! He just changes his mind a lot and we can never be sure where he stands on the issues."
"He's not lying! He just changes his mind a lot and we can never be sure where he stands on the issues."
33
@24: Ron Paul thinks the government should be allowed to tell you how and with whom you should have sex, while he screams about "big government". That's principled?
34
> Mitt Romney said Tuesday he has no plans to push for legislation limiting abortion
...because he doesn't have to push for the legislation. The Republicans in Congress are already planning to do it for him. He'll issue executive orders, of course (not legislation), he'll appoint justices that will overturn Roe vs Wade (not pushing for legislation, just appointing judges), and he'll sign any damn thing restricting choice the right-wing manages to ram through Congress (why, that's just *signing*, not legislation).
The technique is called "how to lie by telling the truth," and Romney is a master.
...because he doesn't have to push for the legislation. The Republicans in Congress are already planning to do it for him. He'll issue executive orders, of course (not legislation), he'll appoint justices that will overturn Roe vs Wade (not pushing for legislation, just appointing judges), and he'll sign any damn thing restricting choice the right-wing manages to ram through Congress (why, that's just *signing*, not legislation).
The technique is called "how to lie by telling the truth," and Romney is a master.
35
@#34
... in the sense that he's perfectly willing to lie by telling the truth when it obviates the need to lie by lying, which he's also perfectly happy to do.
... in the sense that he's perfectly willing to lie by telling the truth when it obviates the need to lie by lying, which he's also perfectly happy to do.
36
@35: Yup, this is just one of many lie techniques in his arsenal. Sometimes he lies by repeated denial, sometimes he lies by repeatedly changing his mind back and forth, sometimes he just flat out lies.
37
Mitt Romney reminds me of a character Martin Sheen played - Dead Zone with Christopher Walken? - where his true colors can no longer be ignored when he grabs a kid to shield himself from being shot. The unfortunate thing is, if Romney were to have that same moment, both the media and the GOP prickheads would find some way to justify his actions no matter what, and Romney would spin his tale (and tail) as he lied about it.
38
@32, not all of us are conservatives; I'm about as far left as you can go. But it's obvious what Romney is doing, and that it's not hurting him, and that the Obama campaign hasn't figured out what to do about it. That is both disgusting and terrifying, because it means if they don't figure it out in the next two weeks -- TWO WEEKS for states that have mail-in ballots, like we do -- Romney will win.
39
@9 GDFR, So, now we're past Roe v Wade and have moved to marinated artichoke hearts v not marinated artichoke hearts. So, are you suggesting that now that he's tried marinated artichoke hearts (abortion) he finds it delicious and wants more? Are you suggesting that Mr etch a sketch has completely reversed his opinion on whether abortion is murder and whether Roe v Wade should be overturned in the last 2 months? I don't think I would want a president that changes that drastically that quickly about something as serious as what they consider murder. Even if he really were changing to be closer to my opinion.
41
All you have to do is look at how the man has governed and campaigned his whole life:
He just says and pretends to believe whatever gets him the job he wants. Just like a salesman will say anything to make a sale. This is who he is at the core, and lying to get what you want from non-Mormons is part of his belief system.
If he thought clubbing a baby seal on live television would get him the presidency he would do it. If he thought donating a million dollars to Greenpeace would get him the presidency, he would do it. Plain and simple.
He just says and pretends to believe whatever gets him the job he wants. Just like a salesman will say anything to make a sale. This is who he is at the core, and lying to get what you want from non-Mormons is part of his belief system.
If he thought clubbing a baby seal on live television would get him the presidency he would do it. If he thought donating a million dollars to Greenpeace would get him the presidency, he would do it. Plain and simple.
42
omg
you won't believe the latest....
Mitt says his position on gay marriage has "evolved"
he now supports it.
that isn't what he said in 2008.
what a lying sack of shit asshole......
you won't believe the latest....
Mitt says his position on gay marriage has "evolved"
he now supports it.
that isn't what he said in 2008.
what a lying sack of shit asshole......
43
A lie is more like saying the attack on the Benghazi U.S. consulate was a spontaneous uprising over a YouTube video. That's a lie, a very bloody lie.
I don't fault Ann Rice though, she was ordered to lie.
I don't fault Ann Rice though, she was ordered to lie.
44
@43
"A lie is more like saying ..."
Do you really need someone to post a dictionary definition of "lie" for you?
Okay. I can do that.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar…
1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2: to create a false or misleading impression
transitive verb
: to bring about by telling lies
Romney either lied or has changed his position on a fundamental concept (abortion is murder) within a few months of stating it without being able to explain why he changed his position.
You defend racists and bigots.
Now you are claiming that you do not know what a "lie" is.
And this is the best option you have for spending your time.
"A lie is more like saying ..."
Do you really need someone to post a dictionary definition of "lie" for you?
Okay. I can do that.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar…
1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2: to create a false or misleading impression
transitive verb
: to bring about by telling lies
Romney either lied or has changed his position on a fundamental concept (abortion is murder) within a few months of stating it without being able to explain why he changed his position.
You defend racists and bigots.
Now you are claiming that you do not know what a "lie" is.
And this is the best option you have for spending your time.
45
Unfortunately Romney's chained himself to Paul Ryan, who is so dogmatic about abortion that he doesn't want to allow it even in cases of rape...
I mean, the part of this story that gets me is that it's such a useless lie. Everyone knows where this party and this ticket stand on abortion. Everyone knows the sort of repressive bullshit we're likely to get if these people are elected -- hell, we've gotten it from the Republican House (including Ryan) these past two years.
So why lie about it, just to be corrected later that afternoon? Why even do that? Unless Romney really is just a pathological liar who will cheerfully say whatever the audience in front of him at that moment wants to hear, regardless of whether it has any basis in reality. -- Oh right, that's how he "won" the debate, and is the only way he's not toxic to independent/moderates.
You remember from the primaries, how voters seemed to be looking for the not-Romney? Romney himself is now trying to be the not-Romney. It's the only thing that works.
I mean, the part of this story that gets me is that it's such a useless lie. Everyone knows where this party and this ticket stand on abortion. Everyone knows the sort of repressive bullshit we're likely to get if these people are elected -- hell, we've gotten it from the Republican House (including Ryan) these past two years.
So why lie about it, just to be corrected later that afternoon? Why even do that? Unless Romney really is just a pathological liar who will cheerfully say whatever the audience in front of him at that moment wants to hear, regardless of whether it has any basis in reality. -- Oh right, that's how he "won" the debate, and is the only way he's not toxic to independent/moderates.
You remember from the primaries, how voters seemed to be looking for the not-Romney? Romney himself is now trying to be the not-Romney. It's the only thing that works.
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