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Sunday, September 30, 2012

Slog Mormon Study: Doctrine and Covenants 130:12

Posted by on Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:00 AM

[Slog Bible Study is on hiatus through the November election as we honor Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney by studying the scriptures of his Mormon religion.]

Doctrine and Covenants 130:12
I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina.

Discuss.

 

Comments (33) RSS

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Matt from Denver 1
Sounds like he foresaw the Civil War. Give him some credit for that.
Posted by Matt from Denver on September 30, 2012 at 7:18 AM · Report this
Skot 2
That certainly explains Strom Thurmond.
Posted by Skot on September 30, 2012 at 7:22 AM · Report this
3
I'm glad I'm Canadian!
Posted by silvertears on September 30, 2012 at 7:23 AM · Report this
Yoder 4
George W. Bush's defeat of John McCain in the 2000 Republican presidential primary?
Posted by Yoder http://www.denimandtweed.com on September 30, 2012 at 7:33 AM · Report this
5
This can't have predicted anything.... I think it was written in the 50’s. ...
Posted by randomtruth on September 30, 2012 at 8:00 AM · Report this
6
Are you serious?! This is a joke, right? The holy scripture of the Mormon faith actually references a state of the Union by name? God really bothers that much with the trivial matters of a country that he makes it a point to put down his thoughts in writing? And it's an article of Mormon faith that some apocalyptic mayhem will break out in... South Carolina?! Like, I have to believe that to be a Mormon?

...And Romney believes that about South Carolina?
Posted by floater on September 30, 2012 at 8:02 AM · Report this
7
@1 The next line especially:

13 It may probably arise through the slave question. This a avoice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832.

14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the acoming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:

15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore alet this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.

So Lincoln is Jesus? Or maybe Lee given that the Mormon's didn't like black people back then.
Posted by giffy on September 30, 2012 at 8:08 AM · Report this
8
@6 -- The Old Testament mentions all kinds of jurisdictions by name - many so obscure we have no clue where and what they were back in the day - so on style Romney's book is no worse than most.

Plus, if you had to pick a nexus of unspecified "difficulties" out of a hat, South Carolina's not a bad choice at all, is it?
Posted by RonK, Seattle on September 30, 2012 at 8:09 AM · Report this
treefort 9
@6: The garden of Eden was in Jackson county, MO. Make a note.
Posted by treefort on September 30, 2012 at 8:13 AM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 10
I'm sick of hearing this messianic bullshit. Nobody's coming.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on September 30, 2012 at 8:18 AM · Report this
11
@8 Well, you're right. It's just that those are ancient places nobody remembers. I expect that from some sort of holy scripture. In contrast, it sounds way too far fetched for God to suddenly say that a cataclysmic war will erupt in the next town over. That's more sci fi or horror than religion.
Posted by floater on September 30, 2012 at 8:23 AM · Report this
12
@10 I come every night. (Kidding!)

"Jesus is coming! Again!"
Posted by floater on September 30, 2012 at 8:26 AM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 13
And what if there had never been a King Charles of England...what would have happened with the name of the Carolina's in that case?
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on September 30, 2012 at 8:34 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 14
@ 11, that's what makes that stuff effective. No one is much bothered by the Apocalypse until it's just about to happen where they are.
Posted by Matt from Denver on September 30, 2012 at 8:46 AM · Report this
BLUE 15
The state university's nickname is the Gamecocks so... seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Posted by BLUE on September 30, 2012 at 8:52 AM · Report this
16
I believe that going back to John Tyler and nullification South Carolina was seen as a source of trouble.

Still, I'd like to see if there's a copy of this thing independently date-able to pre-1861, or for that matter to Smith's lifetime.
Posted by Gerald Fnord on September 30, 2012 at 8:54 AM · Report this
mikethehammer 17
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the South Carolina football team who figures to be tough this year. The "bloodshed" to be wrought is no doubt metaphorical, though I'd not put it past that tandem of linebackers they've got to wreak same pretty serious havoc.
Posted by mikethehammer on September 30, 2012 at 8:54 AM · Report this
Goldy 18
@7 Yeah, one could say that it appears to prophesy the Civil War, though while it was supposedly dated to 1843, it wasn't added to the Doctrine and Convenants until 1876. Also, it's important to point out that there's been no return of Christ yet, and that would seem to be the more important part of the prophesy.
Posted by Goldy on September 30, 2012 at 9:07 AM · Report this
19
For once I'd hafta agree with Mormon scripture, South Carolina is a hellhole, now or then.
Posted by judybrowni on September 30, 2012 at 9:08 AM · Report this
bleedingheartlibertarian 20
Even if Smith really wrote that in the 40s, it still would be roughly equivalent to someone looking at Germany in the 1920s and thinking, "bad shit is going to go down here." Insightful, but not exactly prophetic.
Posted by bleedingheartlibertarian on September 30, 2012 at 9:13 AM · Report this
21
@9 -- When I first read your comment, I thought it said "Jackass County". Hmmm.
Posted by Calpete on September 30, 2012 at 9:37 AM · Report this
Dr_Awesome 22
Ronk@8:"If you had to pick [it] out of a hat"

Subtle! Good one.
Posted by Dr_Awesome on September 30, 2012 at 10:06 AM · Report this
23
@18 Color me shocked that they might have faked it.

Though predicting the civil war in 1842 would not be that remarkable. Like predicting a war between the US and China over Taiwan.
Posted by giffy on September 30, 2012 at 11:06 AM · Report this
KingofQueenAnne 24
Also, for some context: this "revelation" did hit it on the head but it was hardly surprising, because all of the popular media at the time predicted that South Carolina was going to explode anyway. It'd be like the current prophet receiving revelation that Obama is likely to win a second term, but just copying and pasting Nate Silver's analysis.

Speaking of the current prophet, the ex-Mormon and LDS reddit is all atwitter with news that new "revelation" is coming down the pike at next week's general conference—should be entertaining.
Posted by KingofQueenAnne http://blingeejesus.blogspot.com on September 30, 2012 at 11:52 AM · Report this
25
I can't decide if this is a reference to the Nullification Crisis or a prophecy related to Lou Holtz.
Posted by kinaidos on September 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM · Report this
26
GO COCKS!
Posted by Samuel on September 30, 2012 at 1:24 PM · Report this
27
Okay, we know that South Carolina is the dog poop on North Carolina's shoes, and we know that North Carolina is the dog poop on Virginia's shoes, but is Virginia the dog poop on West Virginia's shoes or is it the dog poop on Maryland's shoes? Not all of the important questions are answered in scripture.
Posted by PCM on September 30, 2012 at 1:37 PM · Report this
MacCrocodile 28
@21 - I grew up in Jackson County, Missouri, and you're not far off. When I told my sister about the line in "I Believe" from The Book of Mormon, "I believe the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri", she said, "That must have been before the meth labs moved in."
Posted by MacCrocodile http://maccrocodile.com/ on September 30, 2012 at 4:34 PM · Report this
29
@24 - so, kinda like Romney saying he'll create 12 million jobs? It's gonna happen anyway by all estimates, so why not try taking credit for it and hope no one notices you didn't actually do shit and don't even have a plan.
Posted by mayberrymachiavelli on October 1, 2012 at 12:19 AM · Report this
Sandiai 30
@27, Virginia is the poop on Maryland's shoes, for sure.
Posted by Sandiai on October 1, 2012 at 9:26 AM · Report this
31
@30. Yes, yes it is. As a former Marylander, there is no state I hate more than Virginia.
Posted by Zog in PDX on October 1, 2012 at 10:54 AM · Report this
32
"Commencement of the difficulties"? Gotta love the incredibly awkward phrasing leading to the hilarious punchline of "South Carolina"! One of the best-crafted jokes I've seen in quite some time!
Posted by I have always been... east coaster on October 1, 2012 at 12:56 PM · Report this
33
Don't sweat the timeline everyone. South Carolina had a rebellion in 1836 and Smith is referencing that. It's like saying "Thus sayeth the Lord God that gun violence will break out in Littleton Colorado" because for some reason that too is a hotspot of crazy.
Posted by Why are there cars? on October 2, 2012 at 5:42 AM · Report this

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