Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, September 26, 2012
2012 Watch the State Supreme Court Hearing That Made Goldy Threaten to Give Up
Posted by Eli Sanders on Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:00 AM
It was yesterday's hearing at the Temple of Justice in Olympia, during which our state supreme court considered whether the voter-approved requirement of a 2/3 majority to raise taxes is constitutional. The justices had many questions about whether the case is even "justiciable"—meaning, whether they should even consider important questions about the 2/3 majority requirement's constitutionality at all.
It seemed that some of the justices may want the legislature to first pass a new tax law with a majority vote (rather than with the 2/3 majority vote now required because of Initiative 1053). Then, they want the governor to sign such a law. After that, maybe these justices would be willing to consider whether the Washington State Constitution requires only a majority vote to raise taxes, and if so, whether the constitutional can be changed via the initiative process (as it effectively has been with I-1053).
To which Goldy responded:
So, if the issue isn't justiciable until the legislature and the governor actually violate I-1053 by passing a tax increase on a simple majority and signing it into law, but to violate I-1053 would violate their oath of office, than regardless of the underlying merits, the constitutionality of I-1053 can never ever be challenged! That is what the state and Eyman are arguing, and if the court agrees then frankly, I quit, because there is no rule of law.
I mean it... if the justices pull this justiciability bullshit again, I quit. Because it means everything I've worked for these past nine years has been a total fucking waste of time, so I'll just go out and make some real money for a change, and the rest of the state can go fuck itself.
He later suggested the following Slog poll:
1
Hey, all that work has not been for nothing.
I heard someone got some decent squash and tomatoes this year.
I heard someone got some decent squash and tomatoes this year.
2
...blah...blah...blah....violate their oath of office, thEn regardless of the ...blah...blah...blah...
thEn
thEn
3
Goldy,
If/when you quit, your new career should be dedicated to forcibly deporting Tim Eyman to another state, and then containing him there so he cannot escape.
May I suggest Idaho?
If/when you quit, your new career should be dedicated to forcibly deporting Tim Eyman to another state, and then containing him there so he cannot escape.
May I suggest Idaho?
5
"Justicialalalalability" aside, supermajority requirements are just stupid. They're perfectly useless: they work in an ideal setting (in which case they're unnecessary) and have a horrid track record in reality.
Tinkering with the structure of the state can be a wonderful thing, but how often is it merely a substitute for substantive change?
Tinkering with the structure of the state can be a wonderful thing, but how often is it merely a substitute for substantive change?
6
Goldy should become a lawyer if he wants to affect the kind of change he's working for. Figure out a way to get a hearing on these laws in these courts, then make the arguments that need to be made. Maybe get himself elected as a judge at some point.
7
There is only one issue on which a super majority of Washingtonians have a rough consensus...one which has been expressed by citizens year after year, in vote after vote.
Taxes. Don't raise them. Don't add new ones.
9
@7, just add services, don't educate its citizens or its workforce, and then wonder why all the kids are deadbeat losers, no one can find a doctor or lawyer, and the roads are left to rot. It's magic Libertarian dust!
10
@6 he's not smart enough for that.
Goodbye Goldy. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Although, I think this kind of empty headed radio host bullshit rhetoric is best left to the radio show hosts. Goldy would never quit and he'd come up with an excuse lamer than the justiciable ruling.
P.S. They're saying they can't rule without a substantial reason instead of a bunch of regressive tax pushing motherfuckers whining how they can't screw the poor with more tax hikes (that is for their benefit), but without a tax hike to actually back that claim up. If you think that they're going to close business loop holes once the law is repealed, then you're an idiot.
Goodbye Goldy. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Although, I think this kind of empty headed radio host bullshit rhetoric is best left to the radio show hosts. Goldy would never quit and he'd come up with an excuse lamer than the justiciable ruling.
P.S. They're saying they can't rule without a substantial reason instead of a bunch of regressive tax pushing motherfuckers whining how they can't screw the poor with more tax hikes (that is for their benefit), but without a tax hike to actually back that claim up. If you think that they're going to close business loop holes once the law is repealed, then you're an idiot.
11
@9 We're in the state with the most regressive tax structure in the union. And, let me tell you, that tax structure didn't get that way because of the 2/3 majority law. That law got there, in part, because of the regressive tax structure.
12
At his best Goldy is just a smug, mean spirited prick. If this is what it takes to get rid of him, so be it.
13
GOLDY'S ACCOMPLISHMENT:
One sunday night several years ago, I was driving home from my old job and turned on the radio. I briefly thought that Mark Levin had undergone corrective surgery and changed his radio format to liberal, then I realized it was goldy, then I occasionally listened to him after sunday night shifts.
One sunday night several years ago, I was driving home from my old job and turned on the radio. I briefly thought that Mark Levin had undergone corrective surgery and changed his radio format to liberal, then I realized it was goldy, then I occasionally listened to him after sunday night shifts.
15
Super majorities are to the legislative branch as mandatory minimums are to the judicial branch. Both are incredibly lazy and stupid ideas put forth by those who live in black and white worlds with little to no nuance (which they reserve for themselves and their own families should the occasion arise). They either allay citizens from the responsibility of proper review when voting for representatives or they feel the citizenry is too stupid to vote for the candidates that they prefer (or both, I suppose). They are anti-democratic and oppose rule of law.
16
@15 if a law is repeatedly passed democratically, it is anti-democratic. This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
17
@11 Washington got its regressive tax structure in 1933 after a bullshit 5-4 state supreme court ruling that classified income as property rather than a transaction, thus tossing out an income tax that had been approved at the polls by a 70-30 margin. The legislature quickly cobbled together a "temporary" tax system based upon B&O and sales taxes. We've been living with this temporary and increasingly regressive tax structure ever since.
Blame legislators all you want, but it was a poorly reasoned Supreme Court ruling that put us in this situation. That's history.
Blame legislators all you want, but it was a poorly reasoned Supreme Court ruling that put us in this situation. That's history.
18
@17 So, shouldn't we be challenging THAT ruling rather than fighting for the chance to make the tax system even more regressive than it already is?
19
I recall a similar claim after the monorail was choked to death in its sleep. If there was ever an example of how important these often ignored midterm judicial elections are, this is it. These stooges keep passing the buck back to the legislature as if they are above dirty political issues like gay marriage and super majorities.
I am pretty sick of elected officials saying they can't do anything about 2/3 majority either. My state rep told me and a roomful of bald head white union workers that he can't close any tax loopholes or alter the regressive tax structure in any way because of this law. Personally I think he was a little relieved that he had a good excuse to not buck the corporate bullies that keep saying they will create more jobs if we just gave them more 'confidence' that the state won't tax or regulate them.
I wouldn't get so upset, Goldy, the justices are showing the same timidity in blocking something they know is obviously short sighted and self serving as 2\3 majority. All of them are afraid of the talk show bloc and their corporate backers who are looking to extract the last buck out of WA before it collapses.
I am pretty sick of elected officials saying they can't do anything about 2/3 majority either. My state rep told me and a roomful of bald head white union workers that he can't close any tax loopholes or alter the regressive tax structure in any way because of this law. Personally I think he was a little relieved that he had a good excuse to not buck the corporate bullies that keep saying they will create more jobs if we just gave them more 'confidence' that the state won't tax or regulate them.
I wouldn't get so upset, Goldy, the justices are showing the same timidity in blocking something they know is obviously short sighted and self serving as 2\3 majority. All of them are afraid of the talk show bloc and their corporate backers who are looking to extract the last buck out of WA before it collapses.
20
lol Well, the post was kind of troll bait, so I guess the vitriol above is to be expected. I agree though Goldy, if this is the way they want to play the issue it turns the system into a farce. You can quit and move here to Germany, where everyone is already completely certain that politics is a joke, but the system works well enough that people live happy lives, so who cares.
21
Laws passed repeatedly by democratic votes can be undemocratic and unconstitutional. Think anti-gay marriage laws and segregationist laws. Or think about laws passed which do not meet current constitutional standards and instead should be passed as Constitutional amendments (such as the super majority laws). I understand the meaning, despite your less than clever attempt at quoting The Princess Bride.
22
@21 Anti-gay marriage laws passed by democratic vote are, by definition, democratic.
Unconstitutional, perhaps. THAT is a different word with a different definition.
Unconstitutional, perhaps. THAT is a different word with a different definition.
23
@19 HA! I bet that same speech is used with very little modification to a room full of CEOs and high paying donors. "Gentlemen, you'll be glad to know that I cannot close any of the loopholes that are afforded to you due to the 2/3 majority initiative. However, if it were to be found unconstitutional, rest assured that no loopholes will be closed under my watch, and I will be more interested in sin taxes and other forms of sales taxes that you don't have to worry about."
24
Freezing our tax system in place also means we freeze out any chance to reform the tax system. Any redress of our regressive tax code inevitably means a higher burden on the rich, and that idea won't fly in a 2/3 system. The 1/3 will always kill it dead.
25
Based on the history of the Stranger, they would replace Goldy with someone worse. The Stranger used to actually allow real writers on their pages (pre Geov) who actually wrote hard hitting journalism. But the good news is that the shills over at Publicola will be glad to have him.
26
How does Goldy square this with the stadium he's been shilling for that never came up to a public vote?
27
goldy is wrong. if the so called law is unconstitutional...it is not law....it is not a violation of oath of office to ignore it and pass a tax by majority rule.
he's actually making the nazi defendant argument made at nuremburg. um, gee, they said, this was a nazi law or order, so i had to obey and do my duties at that there death camp. we in the form of the nuremburg tribunal said, not so fast...those nazi laws violated international law....so they were not law...you dn't have an excuse you were following orders if the orders are illegal. see, also, the mutnity on the bounty, etc, etc.
politically, the utter balllessness of democrats and their fucking fear to pass a tax with simple majority is killing us politically. they should pass a tax that funds fucking education then bring this case and THEN they'd have a consituency that would get the money whose interest is at stake. i.e., the public.
now, i also agree, the case is justiciable now. but goldy is being legally ignorant here. you don't obey unconstitutional laws. the democratic legislators have been violating theiroath of office every time they conformed to the illegal eyman measures and basically sat in the back ofthe bus never raising their points to object in the legislature, not getting brad owens to rule in the favor on the point of procedure, and not having the god damned fucking balls to obey their conscience,philosphy and oath of office.
he's actually making the nazi defendant argument made at nuremburg. um, gee, they said, this was a nazi law or order, so i had to obey and do my duties at that there death camp. we in the form of the nuremburg tribunal said, not so fast...those nazi laws violated international law....so they were not law...you dn't have an excuse you were following orders if the orders are illegal. see, also, the mutnity on the bounty, etc, etc.
politically, the utter balllessness of democrats and their fucking fear to pass a tax with simple majority is killing us politically. they should pass a tax that funds fucking education then bring this case and THEN they'd have a consituency that would get the money whose interest is at stake. i.e., the public.
now, i also agree, the case is justiciable now. but goldy is being legally ignorant here. you don't obey unconstitutional laws. the democratic legislators have been violating theiroath of office every time they conformed to the illegal eyman measures and basically sat in the back ofthe bus never raising their points to object in the legislature, not getting brad owens to rule in the favor on the point of procedure, and not having the god damned fucking balls to obey their conscience,philosphy and oath of office.
28
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out- it might knock some of Chris Hansen's jizz outta yer mouth.
29
"Made Goldy Threaten to Give Up"
Threaten????
NO… He clearly promised to give up.
And I quote: “...if the court agrees then frankly, I quit, because there is no rule of law.
I mean it... if the justices pull this justiciability bullshit again I quit.”
I demand that the Stranger hold him to this promise.
Threaten????
NO… He clearly promised to give up.
And I quote: “...if the court agrees then frankly, I quit, because there is no rule of law.
I mean it... if the justices pull this justiciability bullshit again I quit.”
I demand that the Stranger hold him to this promise.
30
Unlike our rather naive and misinformed friends I’ve been to Mogadishu.
The first time was in 1986, when I arrived on the Sabine Eagle, a grain ship owned by Sabine Transportation, and found an impoverished but functional city whose the citizens could safely go about their business, crime especially violent crime, was almost unheard of, people were friendly and open. I spent the day wandering all over the city meeting and talking with all sorts of people, including members of the city’s police force, who were armed with British surplus Webley Revolvers . That evening I had a delightful lobster dinner and then sat on the old harbor steps near an old Roman Empire light house and drank a local Whiskey and gazed out over the Indian Ocean.
The next time I made it to Mogadishu, was in the spring of 1993, about four months before The day Of The Rangers as Somalis say (or Blackhawk down as Americans say) again on a grain ship, this time when I wandered about the city, I stayed closer to the dock, people lived in terror, gunfire was constant, there were no police and nobody was armed with anything as quaint as a Webley, I had wanted to return to the Roman light house but it was to unsafe to travel, I returned to my ship and after watch I drank Jim Beam in my stateroom.
Now when I pass Somalia we haul ass lock all of the external doors, build gates on the deck and string razor wire on the rails.
Civilization is the product of government, and taxes are the sinews of the state, If we wish to go about our business safely, and live an affluent and comfortable manner then government is essential .
The objectivist-no rules-no government-no taxes outlook is nothing but an adolescent fantasy.
The first time was in 1986, when I arrived on the Sabine Eagle, a grain ship owned by Sabine Transportation, and found an impoverished but functional city whose the citizens could safely go about their business, crime especially violent crime, was almost unheard of, people were friendly and open. I spent the day wandering all over the city meeting and talking with all sorts of people, including members of the city’s police force, who were armed with British surplus Webley Revolvers . That evening I had a delightful lobster dinner and then sat on the old harbor steps near an old Roman Empire light house and drank a local Whiskey and gazed out over the Indian Ocean.
The next time I made it to Mogadishu, was in the spring of 1993, about four months before The day Of The Rangers as Somalis say (or Blackhawk down as Americans say) again on a grain ship, this time when I wandered about the city, I stayed closer to the dock, people lived in terror, gunfire was constant, there were no police and nobody was armed with anything as quaint as a Webley, I had wanted to return to the Roman light house but it was to unsafe to travel, I returned to my ship and after watch I drank Jim Beam in my stateroom.
Now when I pass Somalia we haul ass lock all of the external doors, build gates on the deck and string razor wire on the rails.
Civilization is the product of government, and taxes are the sinews of the state, If we wish to go about our business safely, and live an affluent and comfortable manner then government is essential .
The objectivist-no rules-no government-no taxes outlook is nothing but an adolescent fantasy.
31
@27: It's not that these Ds have no balls. They have the balls to ignore it, to preserve corporate backing to their campaigns, and use the weakness argument as a cover. They could take care of this business if they had the political will-- they have the numbers over and over again and refuse to act and Goldy is an enabler. The Stadium debacle vis Hansen is proof that the D's are hopelessly as corrupt as their counterparts when it comes to billionaire money. Oh, and dog bites man, in case anyone was asleep.
32
@6
I humbly suggest that the most effective way for Goldy to affect change would be for him to self-immolate on the steps of the state capital building.
I humbly suggest that the most effective way for Goldy to affect change would be for him to self-immolate on the steps of the state capital building.
34
#30 thanks for that little reality check. The desire to 'go Galt' a la Ayn Rand is almost as jaw droopingly naive as some Anarchist fantasy utopias so scathingly ridiculed by Slog posters. And yet, that is just what the super rich of King county are proposing. Ken Galbraith singles out three counties that have created 'wealth islands' http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzne… (Manhattan, San Jose, Seattle) where inequality has reached Louis XVI levels.
It's the smug faux outrage of people like Frank Chopp in his debate last night who blame his own constituency for this logjam of supermajority tax voting. He and his governor keep finding new reasons to keep poor people taxed and the superwealthy free to build 1.5 million dollar condos on Broadway.
It's the smug faux outrage of people like Frank Chopp in his debate last night who blame his own constituency for this logjam of supermajority tax voting. He and his governor keep finding new reasons to keep poor people taxed and the superwealthy free to build 1.5 million dollar condos on Broadway.
35
The best result would be they decide that tax exemptions and exclusions require a 2/3 vote of the Citizens, and spending requires a majority vote of the Legislature.
Oh, and Goldy runs for Lt. Gov.
Oh, and Goldy runs for Lt. Gov.
36
oh, and @34 ... remember, most of the assets of our billionaires are in tax-exempt taxpayer-subsidized "foundations".
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