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News & ArtsWednesday, September 26, 2012
Sports People Are Still Talking About the Seahawks' Last Minute Win Against the Green Bay Packers
Posted by Grant Brissey on Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:48 PM
And I couldn't really be bothered to give a hoot, but for some reason I clicked on this link while scrolling through Facebook, and the video looks like pretty damning evidence that the catch was good. What say you Slogarati?
1
looks more like a simultaneous catch than before.
but i still think the packers DB should have batted the ball out of the end zone instead of trying to catch it.
but i still think the packers DB should have batted the ball out of the end zone instead of trying to catch it.
2
Definitely looks more like a simultaneous catch than the angle they kept showing during the MNF broadcast.
Still, terrible officiating throughout the game. And that sucks, because the defense was on fire and the running game was dominant, but now all we can talk about is this.
Still, terrible officiating throughout the game. And that sucks, because the defense was on fire and the running game was dominant, but now all we can talk about is this.
4
This is bullshit. There's no way that was a "simultaneous catch". Seahawks stole a win. Pete Carroll has no integrity as a person or a coach.
5
Like how The Stealers have no integrity for accepting the win in SuperBowl 40? Shit happens, we all move on. What the fuck do you want Pete to do? Give it back? Not be happy for a win? Parmenides you wack!
6
@4, what would a non-referee coach or person with integrity have done differently?
The 'Hawks didn't steal shit. The refs screwed up and Seattle was the beneficiary of that mistake. They have no culpability; they were gifted a win. Compare that with the Patriots who, a few years back, had a program of intercepting (ahem) play calls of opposing teams during games.
The 'Hawks didn't steal shit. The refs screwed up and Seattle was the beneficiary of that mistake. They have no culpability; they were gifted a win. Compare that with the Patriots who, a few years back, had a program of intercepting (ahem) play calls of opposing teams during games.
7
@4: why, if he had any integrity at all, he'd have forfeited in protest of the call, by cracky!
and he wouldn't have a jerb the next day.
and he wouldn't have a jerb the next day.
10
Right into Jennings's hands. He had both hands firmly on the football and Tate only had one. Then as they hit the ground, Tate reached up and put his other hand on the ball. Clear interception, still a horrific call by the refs.
11
@3
The pass interference you've heard so much about was a blatant push-off by Tate before the "catch." It's not shown so well in that there video you've dug up.
Try this one instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVsg7wGgx…
The pass interference you've heard so much about was a blatant push-off by Tate before the "catch." It's not shown so well in that there video you've dug up.
Try this one instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVsg7wGgx…
12
@4, the Steelers stole the 2006 Super Bowl, which is only a little more important than Game FUCKING 3.
More shopping carts Brissey.
More shopping carts Brissey.
13
Kevin Calabro on 710 ESPN was touting this video angle as definitive proof that the refs got the call right. I came home, sat through the ad, and watched it...and I don't see it any differently than I saw it that night.
I believe the refs missed the call. That happens all the time in football. They also missed the obvious pass interference before this happened. Again, that happens all the time. They blew calls on interference and roughing the passer earlier in this same drive. They also, I freely admit, made a questionable pass interference call that kept the Packers' scoring drive alive earlier. Again, all that...while not as egregiously bad, perhaps, as it was on Monday night...is stuff that happens, even with real refs.
What was bad was that they didn't know what to do. The game was too often out of control...shambolic...with some players on some plays getting away with murder while other players on other plays not being allowed to do what they're legally allowed to do.
On this particular play, the referees were supposed to huddle up, those that saw the play were supposed to tell the lead ref what they saw, then the lead ref was supposed to make an official call of what happened on the field...and then, there would be the replay review to see if there was any clear incontrovertible evidence to overturn the call that was made on the field.
Instead, the muddled double call was made (one ref signalling "time out (stop)"--as if it was an interception and a touchback and the other signalling "touchdown"), the lead referee didn't even confer with those two refs about what they'd seen...and without a clear, official call, he went right to the replay booth to try to determine what the call should be. (And the fact that the replay official turned out to be Phil Luckett--he of the Vinny Testaverde blown call--oh, mighty irony!) He then came back to say that the "ruling on the field" stood--that it was a touchdown, though that was hardly clear from the way that the refs had acted on the field.
Had the play been ruled an interception on the field, the replay probably wouldn't have overturned that ruling either.
Personally, after looking at this repeatedly...I believe that Jennings established control of the ball with both hands, arms and by pulling it to his chest. I believe that Golden Tate had one hand on part of the ball...that he had his other hand on Jennings' wrist until they landed on the ground. I believe that the rule says that it is not a simultaneous catch if one player establishes control and then another player then tries to establish joint control.
In the end, though, you play the game on the field...and, correct call or not, the game ended with a Seahawks come from behind victory.
This video angle really doesn't change anything.
More...
I believe the refs missed the call. That happens all the time in football. They also missed the obvious pass interference before this happened. Again, that happens all the time. They blew calls on interference and roughing the passer earlier in this same drive. They also, I freely admit, made a questionable pass interference call that kept the Packers' scoring drive alive earlier. Again, all that...while not as egregiously bad, perhaps, as it was on Monday night...is stuff that happens, even with real refs.
What was bad was that they didn't know what to do. The game was too often out of control...shambolic...with some players on some plays getting away with murder while other players on other plays not being allowed to do what they're legally allowed to do.
On this particular play, the referees were supposed to huddle up, those that saw the play were supposed to tell the lead ref what they saw, then the lead ref was supposed to make an official call of what happened on the field...and then, there would be the replay review to see if there was any clear incontrovertible evidence to overturn the call that was made on the field.
Instead, the muddled double call was made (one ref signalling "time out (stop)"--as if it was an interception and a touchback and the other signalling "touchdown"), the lead referee didn't even confer with those two refs about what they'd seen...and without a clear, official call, he went right to the replay booth to try to determine what the call should be. (And the fact that the replay official turned out to be Phil Luckett--he of the Vinny Testaverde blown call--oh, mighty irony!) He then came back to say that the "ruling on the field" stood--that it was a touchdown, though that was hardly clear from the way that the refs had acted on the field.
Had the play been ruled an interception on the field, the replay probably wouldn't have overturned that ruling either.
Personally, after looking at this repeatedly...I believe that Jennings established control of the ball with both hands, arms and by pulling it to his chest. I believe that Golden Tate had one hand on part of the ball...that he had his other hand on Jennings' wrist until they landed on the ground. I believe that the rule says that it is not a simultaneous catch if one player establishes control and then another player then tries to establish joint control.
In the end, though, you play the game on the field...and, correct call or not, the game ended with a Seahawks come from behind victory.
This video angle really doesn't change anything.
14
@biffp: Shopping carts are now forever off the record, due to the actions of an insane piece of shit. Do the math.
16
First, IT DOESN'T MATTER what happened in the game because the NFL owners are trying to screw the officials out of their pensions.
BUT, the Seahawks kicked the former world champions' BUTTS despite a number of idiot ref calls that went AGAINST them. So Seahawks win and fuck you, Packers. Score more points next time, losers.
BUT, the Seahawks kicked the former world champions' BUTTS despite a number of idiot ref calls that went AGAINST them. So Seahawks win and fuck you, Packers. Score more points next time, losers.
18
@ 11
" blatant push-off by Tate" my ass. Lots of stuff doesn't get called. This one is what puts the bug up your butt? You're a little late to the party, pal.
" blatant push-off by Tate" my ass. Lots of stuff doesn't get called. This one is what puts the bug up your butt? You're a little late to the party, pal.
19
Hard to tell from this angle: I can't see through the Green Bay player's back.
That said, I think we're forgetting how much the regular refs suck, too. I'd bet good money there are many past instances where a blown call on the last play reversed the outcome of the game.
However, the real refs would have been all over Tate's blatant pass interference, making the whole catch situation moot. That oversight is what shocks me.
That said, I think we're forgetting how much the regular refs suck, too. I'd bet good money there are many past instances where a blown call on the last play reversed the outcome of the game.
However, the real refs would have been all over Tate's blatant pass interference, making the whole catch situation moot. That oversight is what shocks me.
22
@19
No they wouldn't. Or rather, YOU DON'T KNOW whether they would have caught that or not. Lots of stuff doesn't get called in EVERY GAME. Holding. Pass interference. Speculation ain't fact.
No they wouldn't. Or rather, YOU DON'T KNOW whether they would have caught that or not. Lots of stuff doesn't get called in EVERY GAME. Holding. Pass interference. Speculation ain't fact.
24
What if Ed Hochuli had been the ref, reviewed the play, then announced something like "both players gained possession while in the air, and maintained possession after hitting the ground, therefore, by rule, it is a touchdown." I think the real problem here is the lack of trust and authority in the replacement refs.
25
Shorter Daddy Love:
People win all the time by breaking the rules. Ergo, people who win by breaking the rules should be praised, not criticized, as their winnings are entirely legitimate.
People win all the time by breaking the rules. Ergo, people who win by breaking the rules should be praised, not criticized, as their winnings are entirely legitimate.
27
Well, regardless of the call, you can be sure that if the situation were reversed and it was the Seahawks getting screwed by the refs, you wouldn't see this much controversy.
28
@25
Aw, so nice of you to reduce my comments to a straw man in which I said that someone who 'broke" the rules got away with it or should be praised. Thanks!
But in the REAL world, stuff happens that doesn't get nicely refereed to a certain conclusion. AND the Seahawks DID kick GB ass from one end of the Link to the other.
No one one 'broke" the rules, by the very definition fo the rules and how they are assessed. Every infraction of the rules was adjudicated by the appointed arbiters. It they say it happened, it happened. If they say it didn't happen, it didn't.
AND by the rules of the NFL, which is the only arbiter despite whatever your opinion might be,. the Seahawks ARE the legitimate winners, so sincerely yours, fuck you.
Aw, so nice of you to reduce my comments to a straw man in which I said that someone who 'broke" the rules got away with it or should be praised. Thanks!
But in the REAL world, stuff happens that doesn't get nicely refereed to a certain conclusion. AND the Seahawks DID kick GB ass from one end of the Link to the other.
No one one 'broke" the rules, by the very definition fo the rules and how they are assessed. Every infraction of the rules was adjudicated by the appointed arbiters. It they say it happened, it happened. If they say it didn't happen, it didn't.
AND by the rules of the NFL, which is the only arbiter despite whatever your opinion might be,. the Seahawks ARE the legitimate winners, so sincerely yours, fuck you.
31
Plus, NFL players frequently make one-handed catches. So it's irrelevant that Jennings got two hands on the ball first. Tate had control and possession of the ball the instant his first hand touched it.
34
@31 I think people don't understand the rule basis of the decision. A lot of stuff happens before Jennings's 2nd foot touched the ground and it ain't a catch til both feet hit, right?
I still think the 1st down call on the one yard line just before the Packers scored that last touchdown was a far more obvious error, but it created the conditions for everything that followed, including the Seahawks needing a TD instead of a field goal.
I still think the 1st down call on the one yard line just before the Packers scored that last touchdown was a far more obvious error, but it created the conditions for everything that followed, including the Seahawks needing a TD instead of a field goal.
36
A catch in the air is not possession.
Possession only occurs after ball control plus two feet on the ground.
Tate got both hands on the ball before GBs feet touched the ground.
This was an excellent call, one that showed understanding of the rules of the game.
Possession only occurs after ball control plus two feet on the ground.
Tate got both hands on the ball before GBs feet touched the ground.
This was an excellent call, one that showed understanding of the rules of the game.
37
It was most definitely an amazing simultaneous catch. The ball hits Tate's left hand first, and amazingly the film shows he controls it. Jennings then gets his mits on it, but Jennings is in the air, so that is not a catch under NFL rules. By the time Jennings has hit feet on the ground rate has both hands on the ball. Which is an amazing simultaneous catch - TD Hawks. The national media ran with this story to get rid of the replacement refs. Which worked. Also, the outrage is largely because the lowly South Alaska Seahawks beat the most hallowed of NFL franchises; reverse the roles and there is very little national outrage.
38
Thanks to the Stranger for posting about this; the national press won't touch it with a ten foot pole.
39
@22 - Fair enough. I guess I should have said I've never once seen pass interference that blatant NOT get called. But I'm the one saying the regular refs suck, too, so maybe I shouldn't be so shocked.
41
THE REFS STRUCK A DEAL http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/sports… How are we gonna go the Super Bowl Now!?
45
That call was hardly the most controversial call of the night. The fact that the refs let this go on for as long as it did is simply outrageous: http://www.bebo.com/c/video?FlashBoxId=4…
47
Here's the best pic I have seen, clearly showing tate with possession of the ball, both feet down, before Jennings - and really ripping the ball from Jennings, dragging Jennings over him:
http://pics.lockerz.com/s/248020728
http://pics.lockerz.com/s/248020728
49
@14, 15. I too missed the last shopping cart story/thread. I guess I will have to search for it.
The Packers should always loose because their fans wear those horrible cheese hats.
The Packers should always loose because their fans wear those horrible cheese hats.
50
@ 47, clear as mud. You can't even see the ball in that picture.
Seahawks fans are a touchy bunch, ignoring the offensive pass interference, ignoring the opinions of longtime experts, and coming up with ludicrous conspiracy theories to insist that everything about this play and this game was fair. Good lord, do you really think the billionaire NFL owners would be moved to reconcile with the refs over a GOOD call by the scabs?
Seahawks fans are a touchy bunch, ignoring the offensive pass interference, ignoring the opinions of longtime experts, and coming up with ludicrous conspiracy theories to insist that everything about this play and this game was fair. Good lord, do you really think the billionaire NFL owners would be moved to reconcile with the refs over a GOOD call by the scabs?
51
@44 - None, if it were ruled that Green Bay had caught the ball, but that wasn't the ruling. And even if the ruling had gone GB's way, the refs would have still thrown a flag had they seen Tate push his defender to the ground (or comprehended that such a thing is against the rules).
Anyhow, the real refs are back, so no more bad calls, ever!
Anyhow, the real refs are back, so no more bad calls, ever!
54
Yeah the real refs would have been all over that offensive PI!
Or would they?
In the previous 52 hail Mary attempts pass interference on either side was never called. What do you think is more likely; that it didn't occur 52 times or that the Seahawks hail Mary was the only one that happened or that the refs just don't call it?
If Jennings wanted the interception I guess he just should have completed "the process" of the catch while going to the ground.
Or would they?
In the previous 52 hail Mary attempts pass interference on either side was never called. What do you think is more likely; that it didn't occur 52 times or that the Seahawks hail Mary was the only one that happened or that the refs just don't call it?
If Jennings wanted the interception I guess he just should have completed "the process" of the catch while going to the ground.
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