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Tuesday, September 25, 2012

LIVE: The Washington State Supreme Court Considers the 2/3 Majority Requirement

Posted by on Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Watch it with me and Goldy!

Eli: Yikes. They started early...

Goldy: Oh look... it's Maureen Hart arguing for the state... the woman who says I can go to Attorney General Office press conferences, but refuses to acknowledge that I have the RIGHT to do so.

Eli: Good thing you're watching this event through your computer.

Goldy: As expected, the state is not focusing on whether the clear language of the state constitution sets the standard for passing bills at a simple majority. Rather, they're focusing justiciability... whether it's a proper role for the court to step in and rule on the constitutionality of the 2/3rds requirement. Essentially, the state (and by that I mean Attorney General Rob McKenna's office) is arguing that the issue can only be ripe before the court if the legislature passes a tax increase on a simple majority and the government signs it into law. Hart simply doesn't want the court to rule on the underlying issue (BECAUSE SHE KNOWS SHE WOULD LOSE!!!!)

Eli: And now, the plaintiffs. Who will, of course, argue that this is justicable. (Is that the word, Goldy? Justicable?) "We are simply asking that this court, whose role is to rule on the constitutionality of laws, decide whether this law is constitutional."

Goldy: "Justiciability." And that is the issue, because each time this issue has previously come before court, they've managed to weasel out of making an unpopular ruling by saying that the issue was not yet justiciable.

Eli: Well, however you spell it, sounds like it's a high hurdle today.

Goldy: It's an odd argument that McKenna/Eyman are making. That it is possible to craft a bill whose constitutionality can NEVER be challenged, because it is never justiciable.

Eli: "Is there any case where we've just opened the door wide for the public interest argument for justiciability?" SKEPTICISM from the bench.

Goldy: The justices are giving the LEV lawyer a tough time on justiciability. Don't know if they're just playing devil's advocate, but it's kind of heartbreaking to think that once again we hold a hearing on 2/3rds and we don't talk at all about the underlying constitutional issue.

Goldy: OH MY GOD THIS WHOLE HEARING IS SO COMPLETELY FUCKING CRAZY!!! NO JUSTICE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER THE SUPERMAJORITY REQUIREMENT IS CONSTITUTIONAL!!!

Eli: FINALLY. The chief justice says the issue is actually whether the constitution can be amended by statute.

Goldy: First question on the merits. From Justice Wiggins.

Eli: The justices now seem interested in the history of the rule that a simple majority is required to pass a law. They should read this.

Goldy: Oh great... a justice is citing an 1890-something edition of the Seattle Times. Not encouraging.

Eli: I'm citing Monday's Slog, which itself is citing minutes from 1889. That better?

Goldy: Citing minutes and citing the Seattle Times are not the same thing.

Goldy: "It is time to address the elephant in the courthouse."

Eli: "The elephant in the room is the voters."

Eli: Great question, from afar, from Justice Chambers: What if the voters enacted a crazy law that requires Santa Claus's signature to raise revenue? Sounds like he's ready to decide on the merits.

Goldy: Wiggins, Chambers, and Fairhurst asking questions as to the underlying issue. Positive sign.

Eli: I'd add Madsen, the chief justice, who also signaled she thinks this is justiciable. But that's only four votes.

Goldy: Let's be honest: I-1053 is constitutional in the same way that the Seahawk's final pass last night was a touchdown.

Goldy: Owens using LEV talking points.

Eli: AG's lawyer says something like: "What the framers were concerned about was the ability of a special interest to drive something through by a minority vote." This is pretty much the consequence of the 2/3 majority rule.

Eli: And, they're done.

Goldy: I don't believe we can predict a ruling from this hearing, but I've got to say that I found the hearing rather depressing. Once again the focus of discussion was justiciability rather than the underlying merits of the case, and once again a number of justices seemed to content to weasel out on those grounds.

Eli I was trying to count votes, and I didn't see five votes for justiciability. (Though not every justice made his or her opinion plain.) I also didn't see five votes for the 2/3 rule being unconstitutional. But maybe people are keeping their real opinions close.

Goldy: So, if the issue isn't justiciable until the legislature and the governor actually violate I-1053 by passing a tax increase on a simple majority and signing it into law, but to violate I-1053 would violate their oath of office, than regardless of the underlying merits, the constitutionality of I-1053 can never ever be challenged! That is what the state and Eyman are arguing, and if the court agrees then frankly, I quit, because there is no rule of law.

I mean it... if the justices pull this justiciability bullshit again I quit. Because it means everything I've worked for these past nine years has been a total fucking waste of time, so I'll just go out and make some real money for a change, and the rest of the state can go fuck itself.

Eli And with that, I think we're done.

 

Comments (22) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
Oh dudes you are so screwed if they rule in favor of the 2/3.

I live in California where our Republican minority has taken the economy hostage through the 2/3 budget vote.

I pray for you.
Posted by judybrowni on September 25, 2012 at 2:32 PM
Pick1 2
Stop it! Stop using the fucking phrase "At the end of the day..." It is the most useless words strung together. Whenever you say it, the next words out of your damn mouth will add nothing to the conversation.

And am I right that the argument is "You can't make this call until the legislation passes. You have to let it pass and wait for something unconstitutional to happen."

Oh yep, they are.
Posted by Pick1 on September 25, 2012 at 2:39 PM
Matt from Denver 3
@ 2, saying or writing "words strung together" in place of "phrase" is worse than "At the end of the day" IMO.
Posted by Matt from Denver on September 25, 2012 at 2:52 PM
4
James Johnson is such a good argument against electing Supreme Court justices...
Posted by Pissingmeoff on September 25, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Pick1 5
I used phrase! But yes, that is wonky wording on my part. I do that a lot, but Jesus Christ I think I'm up to about 10 times Miss Hart has used the damn phrase.

She made one point on Justiciability and refuses to acknowledge any other part of it. "At the end of the day this whole thing boils down to Justiciability."

Which is both, incorrect and adds nothing!
Posted by Pick1 on September 25, 2012 at 3:02 PM
6
Wow Hart is terrible at this. Her arguments make no sense and her delivery is really confrontational.
Posted by SeattleLawyer on September 25, 2012 at 3:05 PM
7
"What if the voters enacted a crazy law that requires Santa Claus's signature to raise revenue?"

Bet Eyman is kicking himself for not thinking of that one in the first place.
Posted by Ruke on September 25, 2012 at 3:09 PM
Matt from Denver 8
@ 5, sorry, somehow I overlooked that you used the word "phrase."
Posted by Matt from Denver on September 25, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Pick1 9
I would've loved some expansion on the veto thing mentioned at the end.

Overturning a veto isn't supposed to be easy and the 2/3rds law was written for extreme clashes in policy.

It implies that making 2/3rds the norm was never intended.
Posted by Pick1 on September 25, 2012 at 3:12 PM
10
@4: But he provides such great entertainment value. The best part of the proceeding was Paul Lawrence tearing into Justice "BIAW" Johnson like a con law prof stomping on the feeble arguments of an insolent 1L.
Posted by Mr. Happy Sunshine on September 25, 2012 at 3:14 PM
MacCrocodile 11
"The elephant in the room is the voters."

Is the Supreme Court calling us fat?
Posted by MacCrocodile http://maccrocodile.com/ on September 25, 2012 at 3:14 PM
Sir Vic 12
Rather than "...once again a number of justices seemed to content to weasel out ...", you could also say they are trying to exercise judicial restraint. There's some sort of latin legal phrase about "decide the minimum/obvious", or something like that, which many judges follow. Just because they may feel that I-1053 is unconstitutional, doesn't mean they can step outside the boundaries of the system.
Posted by Sir Vic on September 25, 2012 at 3:35 PM
You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me 13
"I mean it... if the justices pull this justiciability bullshit again I quit. Because it means everything I've worked for these past nine years has been a total fucking waste of time, so I'll just go out and make some real money for a change, and the rest of the state can go fuck itself."

Promises promises...
Posted by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me on September 25, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Goldy 14
@12 It's not judicial constraint to craft a loophole in which a piece of legislation can never ever be challenged.
Posted by Goldy on September 25, 2012 at 3:41 PM
Will in Seattle 15
Everyone knows that only Santa Claus gets to decide on funding the Billionaires Tunnel.

The elves votes don't matter. Santa uses them, shredded, to keep his flying reindeer warm.

So how come the 2/3 majority stuff was never actually PASSED by a 2/3 majority? Or is hypocrisy fine?
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on September 25, 2012 at 3:49 PM
16
I didn't expect them to give the case as much serious consideration as they did, so I was pleased to listen to the arguments. And I could easily see Justice Gonzalez provide the fifth vote.

Remember that this court has ducked three times, and then watch again. I thought it was almost hopeful!
Posted by Alan Durning on September 25, 2012 at 3:50 PM
Will in Seattle 17
As to what @13 says about what Goldy said: We could just require a 2/3 vote to fund roads in counties which don't pull their own weight. Which would let King and Snohomish basically force Eastern Washington to pull their own weight.

Hah, like that will ever happen. They like their subsidies.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on September 25, 2012 at 3:52 PM
Free Lunch 18
If the legislature decided to violate I-1053 - and thus their oath of office - how exactly would that work?

Wouldn't declaring a tax increase as approved with 51% of the vote be basically the same as declaring it approved with 1% of the vote (as far as I-1053 is concerned)? Can the legislature just deem something as passed, regardless of the vote count?

I'm not playing devil's advocate here - I'm asking how it would work procedurally.
Posted by Free Lunch on September 25, 2012 at 3:54 PM
19
Free Lunch,

The presiding officer in either house can make a parliamentary ruling that something passed or failed. So, in the state senate, for example, the Lieutenant Governor (the senate's presiding officer) could declare a revenue bill to have passed by majority rules, ignoring 1053. Oddly, the AG's rep today argued that the supremes shouldn't touch this case unless the legislature first did exactly this. A peculiar suggestion, insofar as the AG's job is to defend the state's laws, including its initiatives.
Posted by Alan Durning on September 25, 2012 at 4:24 PM
Will in Seattle 20
Ssh, @19, that might make them do their jobs.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on September 25, 2012 at 5:36 PM
21
@15, because it didn't exist until it was passed. Duh.

@18, I don't think the Leg could legally pass something by a majority vote if the law was they needed a supermajority. And they wouldn't (and didn't) try to do so.
Posted by sarah70 on September 25, 2012 at 6:03 PM
22
Sometimes you just have to bootstrap justiciability. If memory serves -- and it probably doesn't -- Bill Brennan had to convince the US Supreme Court to do some bootstrapping to reach the merits in Baker v. Carr (the "one person, one vote" legislative apportionment case). But of course, US Supreme Court justices have life tenure (barring impeachment and conviction) and aren't constantly looking over their shoulders to see whether the electorate is going to toss them out on their asses in the next election if they're unhappy with a decision. That, I think, was the real elephant in the courtroom.
Posted by PCM on September 25, 2012 at 6:58 PM

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