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News & ArtsTuesday, September 18, 2012
2012 / Money We Are the 47 Percent
Posted by Goldy on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM
I have been self-employed for much of my adult life, and I freely admit that there were a few years mixed in there in which I did not pay an income tax. But even in my worst years, I never paid the federal government less than 15.3 percent of my earnings, significantly more than the 13.9 percent effective rate Mitt Romney says he paid in 2010.
Like all working Americans, I pay a 15.3 percent flat tax (temporarily reduced to 13.3 percent) toward Social Security and Medicare, two of the "entitlements" Romney accuses me of wanting for nothing. We currently pay this tax on the first $106,800 of our earned income, which means like most Americans (and unlike Romney) I have always paid it on all of my income. In addition, I pay thousands of dollars a year in state and local property taxes, sales taxes, and other excise taxes.
I suppose Romney could have used his little fundraising speech to make the case for why my taxes ought to be lower. But he didn't. He used the opportunity to accuse me and nearly half of all Americans of being deadbeats.
To be clear, apart from a few weeks of unemployment back in 1988, I have never cashed a government check. No welfare. No food stamps. No Earned Income Tax Credit. (Although I'm sure there were years when I would have qualified for the latter two had I applied.) Even in 2001, when I lost a dot.com job in a post-9/11 mass layoff, I did not apply for unemployment because I had no intention of looking for work at the time, and thus felt it would just be wrong to file.
Now the one "entitlement" I have always counted on—Medicare's guarantee of affordable health care in my senior years (an "entitlement" for which I have been paying my entire adult life)—Romney tells me I do not deserve, and his running mate Paul Ryan tells me I should not expect.
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax... my job is not to worry about those people."
Fuck you, Mitt. Fuck you.
1
Goldy,
"He used the opportunity to accuse me and nearly half of all Americans of being deadbeats."
Yes, that is what he did.
Not because you are a deadbeat.
But because he needed to tell a story to the people paying $50,000 each to listen to him about why so many people in this country were not supporting him.
So he went with the easy story that would appeal to the biases of those people.
Romney was a rich guy, at a meeting of rich guys, making fun of the people serving lunch for being lazy and dependent and how they feel entitled to the rich guys' money.
"He used the opportunity to accuse me and nearly half of all Americans of being deadbeats."
Yes, that is what he did.
Not because you are a deadbeat.
But because he needed to tell a story to the people paying $50,000 each to listen to him about why so many people in this country were not supporting him.
So he went with the easy story that would appeal to the biases of those people.
Romney was a rich guy, at a meeting of rich guys, making fun of the people serving lunch for being lazy and dependent and how they feel entitled to the rich guys' money.
2
Note: for 2012 the cutoff for the Social Security FICA portion is $110,100. There is no cap on the Medicare/HI
3
This is probably unintentional, but you are separating yourself here from those other folks who HAVE cashed a government check - "welfare" (cash assistance), TANF, and so on, as though you were too proud to do it even when you might have qualified. In fact, there's nothing wrong with utilizing government services as a safety net.
People like to distinguish social security and medicare from other "entitlements", so they don't have to feel like they are on "welfare" but these programs are really all in the same category: they are transfers of resources from one group to another for the betterment of society. You weren't actually paying for your own social security all these years; you were paying for old folks'; and when you are old, the young will support you. This is how it should be, and it works quite well.
People like to distinguish social security and medicare from other "entitlements", so they don't have to feel like they are on "welfare" but these programs are really all in the same category: they are transfers of resources from one group to another for the betterment of society. You weren't actually paying for your own social security all these years; you were paying for old folks'; and when you are old, the young will support you. This is how it should be, and it works quite well.
4
I'm part of the 47% who won't vote for Romney, and I've paid income taxes my entire adult life. There are plenty of seniors, red state poor, and military who are in the 47% who don't pay taxes, yet will still vote for Romney. Romney just wants to paint anyone not voting for him as being on the government dole. It's away of driving a wedge between the super rich, and the rest of the population in order to raise more money from other millionaires. "Be afraid! The 47% are going to rob you blind!!!"
5
Maybe you have paid into it for your entire adult life, but if you're an average person of your age, not nearly enough to cover the cost of your care.
6
@3 Those are fair points in terms of the benefit programs. But my primary point is that most of us pay that 15.3 percent federal tax.
7
@5,
Which is why the wealthy, who have prospered greatly from the abundant benefits they received from this country and their fellow citizens, should be taxed at higher rates to help out those less fortunate.
You know... a rising tide lifts all boats... and so forth.
Which is why the wealthy, who have prospered greatly from the abundant benefits they received from this country and their fellow citizens, should be taxed at higher rates to help out those less fortunate.
You know... a rising tide lifts all boats... and so forth.
8
But if you inherited $250,000 and used it to pay off your car and max out retirement and own 40% of your house than you too could pay 8.8% like Bill Gates.
Or me.
Or Comrade Romney.
Or me.
Or Comrade Romney.
9
@3
@6
I think both of you have missed the point.
Romney was engaging in an old practice where
a group he does not like
and
characteristics/behavior he does not like
are conflated
to excuse/justify
his actions/non-action regarding
that group.
It's easier to see with with racist/bigoted stereotypes and such.
But it is the same process.
That is the problem.
You can discuss whether YOU fall into that group but NOT that behavior
or
You can discuss whether SOMEONE ELSE is NOT in that group but DOES show that behavior
but that does not matter.
It's like arguing with a racist about whether Mexicans are lazy.
Saying that there are lazy whites is not the answer.
Saying that this particular Mexican is not lazy is not the answer.
@6
I think both of you have missed the point.
Romney was engaging in an old practice where
a group he does not like
and
characteristics/behavior he does not like
are conflated
to excuse/justify
his actions/non-action regarding
that group.
It's easier to see with with racist/bigoted stereotypes and such.
But it is the same process.
That is the problem.
You can discuss whether YOU fall into that group but NOT that behavior
or
You can discuss whether SOMEONE ELSE is NOT in that group but DOES show that behavior
but that does not matter.
It's like arguing with a racist about whether Mexicans are lazy.
Saying that there are lazy whites is not the answer.
Saying that this particular Mexican is not lazy is not the answer.
10
there is a far more simple rejoinder, that if our media and political activists would bother to make, would be killer. Romney's family was on welfare after returning from Mexico. yes, his dad who later was an alcoa lobbyist working around gummint and a governor taking a gummint paycheck when a little tyke GOT GUMMINT WELFARE. Being a refugee from turmoil in mexico. Not only that, the family also had several failed businesses and got a form of welfare/avoid personal responsilbity relief called "bankruptcy." They did not pay back their debts. They went bankrupt a few times. It is these handouts that set up romney senior to then feed off the gummint running AMC during ww2 become governor etc., all of which led to mitt boy getting into harvard and bain, so no, mitt didn't build it alone, he built it partly based on the gummint welfare his family took.
why can't liberals argue when they have such things to argue with? "Sir, your own family was on welfare, are you calling your grandfather a moocher, too?" is a a good point to make.
why can't liberals argue when they have such things to argue with? "Sir, your own family was on welfare, are you calling your grandfather a moocher, too?" is a a good point to make.
11
I've said it elsewhere, but I might as well say it here too. Years from now, when people look back and say "how could Romney possibly have bungled it so badly," this will be the defining moment.
You don't win elections by pissing off 47% of the electorate.
You don't win elections by pissing off 47% of the electorate.
13
Who cares about the 47% when we know they're all just welfare cheats, homeless drug addicts, unwed teenage mothers and illegal aliens. They're not Mitt's problem, nor that of his audience.
14
Warren Olney had an interesting point today, which I'll mangle the verbatim but he basically asked 'aren't the doctors, landlords, grocery stores, etc. equally receiving government money via the consummer who can pay for said services/products by the money passed to those recipients?'
It was a great point and one that I think a lot of people miss.
It was a great point and one that I think a lot of people miss.
15
Well I'm one of the 53% who pays income taxes as well as whole lot of other taxes. There's no way I'd vote for Mitt Romney.
That fuckwad pays a lower rate than I do because most of his money is made via captital gains.
The reality is Mitt Romney and the rest of the Republican party could give a shit less for those of us who work for a living.
That fuckwad pays a lower rate than I do because most of his money is made via captital gains.
The reality is Mitt Romney and the rest of the Republican party could give a shit less for those of us who work for a living.
18
There is a basic problem in our country. We do not have enough taxpayers ! We have too many on welfare. Only Romney has a desire to solve this basic problem that our country is going broke!!
19
The only interesting part of your posting, Goldy, was the "fuck you." Now, when is Obama going to send his attack dogs hither and thither to say "fuck you, Mitt" to everyone within shouting distance?
If this was Bill Clinton's campaign, the dogs of war would be feasting on Romney's liver right now. But Obama ... er, Bill Cosby ... he's going to assume that everyone will be outraged. Yeah, that really works, doesn't it?
If this was Bill Clinton's campaign, the dogs of war would be feasting on Romney's liver right now. But Obama ... er, Bill Cosby ... he's going to assume that everyone will be outraged. Yeah, that really works, doesn't it?
20
And what kind of masochistic bullshit was Obama pulling on TV last night?
This is John Kerry all over again, god damn it.
This is John Kerry all over again, god damn it.
21
Goldy,
You're problem like many Americans is that you still walk around with your noses in the air like you middle class.
I gave that affection up a decade ago which is why I live in Section 8 style housing.
Anyone making less than $100,000 is poor. P O O R.
Yeah, the can fool you with credit and all, but dollars in don't buy all the goodies.
The day the 47% become the 85% and act like we in the same slum is the day we make it work.
You're problem like many Americans is that you still walk around with your noses in the air like you middle class.
I gave that affection up a decade ago which is why I live in Section 8 style housing.
Anyone making less than $100,000 is poor. P O O R.
Yeah, the can fool you with credit and all, but dollars in don't buy all the goodies.
The day the 47% become the 85% and act like we in the same slum is the day we make it work.
22
Not only is what he said incredibly callous and horrible, but the fact he was stupid enough to talk like that in front of a group of people -- even high-roller donors -- is equally as astonishing.
I would never in a million years vote for him, regardless, but this illustrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mitt is not ready for prime time. And never will be. There is a certain skillset that is completely lacking.
I would never in a million years vote for him, regardless, but this illustrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mitt is not ready for prime time. And never will be. There is a certain skillset that is completely lacking.
23
He wasn't stupid to talk like that in front of a group of donors. He was stupid to not realize that EVERYTHING is videoed now. I hope he continues to be stupid that way for the next 6 weeks.
24
Here's another great way to break this down, and yet another example of the arithmetic being against Mitt. To earn enough to owe any federal income tax, a single earner making minimum wage in a family of four would have to work 24 hours a day, 5 days a week, with no days off. What an entitled deadbeat!
http://squashed.tumblr.com/post/31757816…
http://squashed.tumblr.com/post/31757816…
25
i'm paraphrasing, but Mitt is the kind of guy who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. he probably thinks he built the stadium too.
what an effing tool. and at least this video shows most of the US what he's really saying and thinking when no one is watching.
the only thing that can stop Obama winning is if Dems et al dont vote.
what an effing tool. and at least this video shows most of the US what he's really saying and thinking when no one is watching.
the only thing that can stop Obama winning is if Dems et al dont vote.
26
#23, I think it may well in the Mittster's electoral interest to have that out there, given that Obama isn't going to unleash the dogs over it but is instead going to pull a John Kerry. Romney gets to rally his wingnuts, and the Democrats once more get to bend over and prepare for what's coming.
27
#25, you might remember that, in the year that "born on third base" line was coined by Ann Richards of Texas, the Republicans handed Dukakis his ass on a platter.
28
@27, so what? -- what happened to Dukakis had nothing to do with what Richards said.
And Obama is not Dukakis. The Dems have already released an ad dissing Romney's statements which is pretty damned good.
6 weeks to go, hopefully with more incriminating videos.
And Obama is not Dukakis. The Dems have already released an ad dissing Romney's statements which is pretty damned good.
6 weeks to go, hopefully with more incriminating videos.
29
His "explanation" for the growth of food stamp usage in the US is so indicative of a 1% mentality. Why, it can't be unemployment, under employment, food and utility inflation or downward wage depression (all results of a crisis embedded in a US property sector consisting largely of very wealthy people ripping off poorer people with dodgy sub prime mortgages). No, these people must have simply come to be infants, sucking on the state's fat teat in the space of four short years. What a colossal, privileged sociopath.
31
You know, the debates are in a couple of weeks. Don't accuse Obama of "doing nothing with this" until you hear him at the debates.
Obama is EXCELLENT at giving his opponents enough rope to hang themselves with; he's also excellent at shutting up and letting his opponents flounder when they get themselves into difficulties like Mitt's current one.
Obama's GOT this. John Kerry, he ain't.
Obama is EXCELLENT at giving his opponents enough rope to hang themselves with; he's also excellent at shutting up and letting his opponents flounder when they get themselves into difficulties like Mitt's current one.
Obama's GOT this. John Kerry, he ain't.
33
And Obama is not Dukakis. The Dems have already released an ad dissing Romney's statements which is pretty damned good
Obama is a cross between Bill Cosby and John Kerry. And the Democratic "ad" is some video put out onto the Internet for the benefit of the Kool-Aid drinkers. This is starting to remind me of Obama's 2008 campaign before it was rescued by the Clintons.
Obama is a cross between Bill Cosby and John Kerry. And the Democratic "ad" is some video put out onto the Internet for the benefit of the Kool-Aid drinkers. This is starting to remind me of Obama's 2008 campaign before it was rescued by the Clintons.
34
#31, so we wait for the debates until Obama decides to make some obscure point about something that everyone will have forgotten by then? Let's hope that Obama's campaign isn't as stupid as I fear it is.
35
Myth Romney got a $70,000 tax break for his pet horse. That is the equivalent of the yearly salary of two average Americans.
And I'm the fucking parasite?
37
And Medicare doesn't even cover the most basic essential care....dental care...entitlement?? Hell no, you can't even get care you pay for. Same goes for the other government health system, the VA!
38
So average life span is 18-78. Now lets assume that from years 18 to 30 you are educating yourself, paying off student loans, getting started. etc. and hence not making much. That's 12 years out of 60 years right there so we are already at 20% for the average person without income tax. Now retirement is 65 ideally so knock off another 13 years where people are not earning income or 21.5%. So just from that we get about 41.5% of a persons adult life where they would not be paying income tax. Figure on things like the disabled, trustafarians, tax cheats, etc and 47% seems about right.
39
RMoney was just playing up the mouth-breathing rhetoric familiar to his base. Even right wing trolls on the internet routinely use the welfare queen slur. You can't blame the guy for trying to appeal to the bottom of the barrel.
41
Right. Fuck you, Mitt!
I have worked my ass to the bone, been self employed for years and pretty much been told to go fuck myself for my efforts.I have basically been an employer and tax collector for the state for the state for a decade, taken little to nothing home for myself and finally been driven out of business by the GOP backed economic implosion that began way before Obama took office. I can't even collect unemployment as a result of my investment in the economy. Incorporating my business was the biggest mistake I will ever make in my entire life. All it did was open my ass up to the state and federal cocks of oppression. Fuck you all. It's been real, it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun. When it all goes to shit, at least I have the skills to survive in the wilderness(if there's any left.) Good night, and fuck you, american dream!
I have worked my ass to the bone, been self employed for years and pretty much been told to go fuck myself for my efforts.I have basically been an employer and tax collector for the state for the state for a decade, taken little to nothing home for myself and finally been driven out of business by the GOP backed economic implosion that began way before Obama took office. I can't even collect unemployment as a result of my investment in the economy. Incorporating my business was the biggest mistake I will ever make in my entire life. All it did was open my ass up to the state and federal cocks of oppression. Fuck you all. It's been real, it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun. When it all goes to shit, at least I have the skills to survive in the wilderness(if there's any left.) Good night, and fuck you, american dream!
42
I've always counted on the entitlement that even if I try my hardest at earning an income over the year I could ask the government for food assistance based on my last year's income. Sure it's an entitlement I've never had to use but I'll be damned if it gets taken away. I don't really care how many people abuse the system, we're talking about a human need here and it's a human need we waste millions of pounds of every year for no other reason than displaying it (basically without food stamps we're telling hungry people they aren't as important as the garbage, which doesn't seem too far from Romney's opinion). I'm of the opinion we shouldn't be giving out cash benefits of any kind and in my neck of the woods we have controls on it. They aren't perfect but the people who need the benefit get it more than the people who are just abusing the system. Let's be real here, not a single person on this planet isn't going to abuse the fuck out of a useless war mongering government if it came to their advantage. The kind of abuse Mitt Romney participated in? If it wasn't criminal it absolutely should be. The idea that food stamp recipients are abusing the system is beyond laughable. They're "stealing" money from hard working tax payers like myself and using it to buy items labeled as food from the store. Never in the history of my life have I ever felt like someone using food stamps in the same line I use at the store was ever stealing anything from me. Romney on the other hand? If he were to ever use a store he's the guy who would lecture the person with food stamps. Hell if they're lucky he'll even hold you down in the bathroom while he cuts your hair.
43
@26....you must be a young troll, ann was hardly the first to use that phrase ...the dems used it a lot in the 80s withe GW1, and its been around a longer than that. its a charming expression.
44
those are not 'taxes' goldy you freeloading mooching leech.
they are payment into a trust fund to pay YOUR SS and medicare.
and guess what, you worthless brainless ball-less sack of shit?
all of the "TAXES" you pay will not cover what you will collect.
so your poor daughter, in addition to being cursed with your mongrel degenerate dna, will be cursed to pay actual TAXES to support your freeloading mooching ass.
do the poor kid a favor. drop dead.
they are payment into a trust fund to pay YOUR SS and medicare.
and guess what, you worthless brainless ball-less sack of shit?
all of the "TAXES" you pay will not cover what you will collect.
so your poor daughter, in addition to being cursed with your mongrel degenerate dna, will be cursed to pay actual TAXES to support your freeloading mooching ass.
do the poor kid a favor. drop dead.
45
This whole "47%" thing is just a re-hash of "Real Amurrkins." I felt during W's whole term that the half of the country that voted him in, as well as his Administration, felt that because I didn't vote for him I was not a part of this country, and therefore my needs and concerns as a citizen could be completely disregarded. Apparently Republicans are unable to handle the responsibility that comes with being President - you have to look out for the whole country, not just your base.
46
@1: And that makes it okay... how? He's still pandering to the lowest common denominator. He's still spreading falsehoods in order to do so. We need less people like Romney.
47
I have had an open unemployment claim for most of the last 3 1/2 years. I kept this open not by way of using all my extensions, but by doing freelance and temp work while (quite unenthusiastically, I must admit) looking for a "real" job. Now my freelance work which I had been doing on the occasional weekend is starting to turn into a career that is far more satisfying than any of the jobs I applied for.
Mittens likes to call us lazy for thinking these entitlements should be in place. Not true, I have worked hard to set things in place for the long-term.
Conservatives like to call them hand outs. For me, it's been a hand-up.
Fuck you, Mitt Romney. Fuck you!
Mittens likes to call us lazy for thinking these entitlements should be in place. Not true, I have worked hard to set things in place for the long-term.
Conservatives like to call them hand outs. For me, it's been a hand-up.
Fuck you, Mitt Romney. Fuck you!
48
Does anyone know who the hero is that coughed up $50K so they could get that video and fuck Mittens over? I'm sure they'll be accused of being a class traitor, but good on him/her.
49
You're god damned right I'm entitled. When I bust my ass off, I sure as fuck am entitled to a wage that I can actually live off of. When part of that wage goes into an entitlement program, I sure as fuck am entitled to use that program when I need it.
And if you want your employees to pay the same taxes you do, then you'd better start paying them closer to what you make. And if you can't, then you don't get to expect me to worship the ground you walk on for being such a "brilliant entrepreneur," because apparently you're fucking NOT.
And if you want your employees to pay the same taxes you do, then you'd better start paying them closer to what you make. And if you can't, then you don't get to expect me to worship the ground you walk on for being such a "brilliant entrepreneur," because apparently you're fucking NOT.
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