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News & ArtsTuesday, September 18, 2012
2012 Secret Fundraiser Tape Mitt's Foreign Policy Is Even More Cynical and Lazy Than On-the-Record Mitt
Posted by Paul Constant on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 8:35 AM
Mother Jones has released more of the secret Romney fundraising tapes. He holds forth on dirty bombs, attacks President Obama's foreign policy, and offers up his Middle Eastern policy, which is that he basically would do nothing:
The most interesting part, as far as I'm concerned, is at the end. Romney's cynicism really becomes obvious.
All right, we have a potentially volatile situation but we sort of live with it, and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it. We don't go to war to try and resolve it imminently. On the other hand, I got a call from a former secretary of state. I won't mention which one it was, but this individual said to me, you know, I think there's a prospect for a settlement between the Palestinians and the Israelis after the Palestinian elections. I said, "Really?" And, you know, his answer was, "Yes, I think there's some prospect." And I didn't delve into it.
That last bit, where he's presented with a possible solution and just blandly says he didn't delve into it, seems awfully callous. Romney is supposed to be a big president-as-CEO guy and he won't take a meeting with a former secretary of state on a solution to an issue that's dogged every American president since Israel was formed? And as to the part about not being interested in the two state solution: I'm sure that many people are yawning at this—of course Romney is not interested in a two state solution, right? Then why did he say he was for a two state solution back in July of this year? Which time is the lie?
Meanwhile, it turns out that the man who owns the home where the fundraiser took place is a hedge fund manager who's into sex parties. So while there's still some tape left unreleased, it seems unlikely that Mitt will go into his anti-pornography policies. He's smart enough to know who's writing the checks.
1
We don't go to war to try and resolve it imminently ?!?
Eech. That construction makes me shudder. Are we to return to the sad, sad day so an inarticulate president running the world's most powerful military-economy?
Eech. That construction makes me shudder. Are we to return to the sad, sad day so an inarticulate president running the world's most powerful military-economy?
2
If there's tape left unreleased, it's probably because it turned into one of those sorts of parties. You know.
4
I saw one a month ago, same video, except Mitt talks about how great the labor market is in China, specially how cheap it is. Goes on to describe factories surrounded with guards and barbed wire (basically prisons).
Slave labor is AWESOME!
Slave labor is AWESOME!
7
I think he's right about the Arab-Israeli conflict being an intractable problem on account of the Palestinians refusing to let go of their fantasy of driving the Jews into the sea.
8
@4 I saw that one yesterday. He paints a picture of a Chinese factory as a prison, except that young women, he says, are dying to work in this slave labor camp. And his point is that we have it really good in America. So I guess labor laws here are luxurious and companies can probably do without them. We'd still show up to work.
Well, we're getting the real Mitt Romney, everybody. We can't say we were tricked. If we end up voting for him, the hell that will follow will be on us.
Well, we're getting the real Mitt Romney, everybody. We can't say we were tricked. If we end up voting for him, the hell that will follow will be on us.
9
If he says "he didn't delve into it" that doesn't mean he wasn't interested, it means he didn't have the time to go into it in that conversation at that particular time.
10
@2 Shit, if this is going to be that kind of party, I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes.
11
GayDudeforRomney@9: I'm sorry, what? A former Secretary of State mentions that there's a political solution to the largest impediment preventing the United States from securing access to Middle Eastern oil, and "he didn't delve"?
He just didn't have time? He prefers "kicking the ball down the road" - when in fact Iran's nuclear ambitions are goading the region towards yet another war?
Bull. This is yet another example of Romney's claiming to have a solution to seemingly intractable problems that he'd be more than willing to share, but we have to elect him first. Otherwise, despite his being a super-patriot, he'll never share them.
He just didn't have time? He prefers "kicking the ball down the road" - when in fact Iran's nuclear ambitions are goading the region towards yet another war?
Bull. This is yet another example of Romney's claiming to have a solution to seemingly intractable problems that he'd be more than willing to share, but we have to elect him first. Otherwise, despite his being a super-patriot, he'll never share them.
12
@9 - I would think that a qualified candidate would MAKE time so that a former SoS could elaborate on such an important topic. Maybe he had to catch a plane to Stockholm.
14
@ 9, even if that's true, that doesn't explain his whole we'll-just-muddle-through-it-somehow attitude toward the question of Israeli-Palestinian relations that Romney exhibits in these remarks.
Romney is not a leader. Leaders have vision, definite ideas of how they'd like to see things resolved, even if they're virtually impossible to realize and they know that. Romney states that he has no vision, other than that he hopes it doesn't come to a head until he's out of the White House ("kick it down the field").
Romney is not a leader. Leaders have vision, definite ideas of how they'd like to see things resolved, even if they're virtually impossible to realize and they know that. Romney states that he has no vision, other than that he hopes it doesn't come to a head until he's out of the White House ("kick it down the field").
15
@9: Rough night, huh? This is good - keep everyone distracted with hair-splitting analysis and maybe nobody will notice that Romney doesn't believe in the two-state solution he claims to support in public.
17
@13 The Israelis are far from blameless, but they aren't completely insane like the Palestinians.
@14 Is it possible that Mittens believes in the two-state solution in principal, but thinks the chances of it working in practice are slim?
@14 Is it possible that Mittens believes in the two-state solution in principal, but thinks the chances of it working in practice are slim?
18
@ 17, believing that the Palestinians are hell-bent on Israel's destruction isn't compatible with any belief in a two-state solution I've heard. You have to have faith that they'll learn to live with each other to support that.
19
@17
"The Israelis are far from blameless, but they aren't completely insane like the Palestinians."
Maybe it would better if you stopped describing the Palestinians as if they were a monolithic group.
Different factions have different agendas.
But that doesn't fit your bigoted world-view, does it?
"The Israelis are far from blameless, but they aren't completely insane like the Palestinians."
Maybe it would better if you stopped describing the Palestinians as if they were a monolithic group.
Different factions have different agendas.
But that doesn't fit your bigoted world-view, does it?
20
@18 I can't speak for Mittens, but I think persuading the Palestinians to abandon the armed struggle against Israel is within the realm of possibility, but rather unlikely. I think Romney's position that it's a bad situation but we need to learn to live w/ it is quite reasonable.
21
Come on "gay dude". What is your true animus?
What propels you to offer lame apologia for an elitist thief, day after day after day?
Do you really hate old people and wounded vets as much as your hero?
Is everyone who isn't a hedge fund manager a parasite in your eyes?
Do you REALLY believe that "kicking the can down the road" is sound foreign policy?
Do you really believe that magic confidence fairies will fix the economy the day Myth is inaugurated?
Or are you, in the vernacular, just taking the piss? Are you having us on?
What propels you to offer lame apologia for an elitist thief, day after day after day?
Do you really hate old people and wounded vets as much as your hero?
Is everyone who isn't a hedge fund manager a parasite in your eyes?
Do you REALLY believe that "kicking the can down the road" is sound foreign policy?
Do you really believe that magic confidence fairies will fix the economy the day Myth is inaugurated?
Or are you, in the vernacular, just taking the piss? Are you having us on?
22
I agree with GDFR or at least I'm withholding judgement. The end of the tape was very abrupt. He may have said something right after that elaborated on the discussion.
23
@ 20, if you honestly believe that, then you're giving Romney the benefit of a doubt which he has not earned. Statements like "kick it down the field" reveal that he isn't going to work at a solution at all. He's not even saying he's going to pay it lip service. His hope is that nothing happens on his watch - probably because, deep down, he knows he'll fuck it up worse, as he did with his initial reactions to the attacks on our embassies and consulates.
That's not pragmatism, that's a desire not to have to deal with it at all.
That's not pragmatism, that's a desire not to have to deal with it at all.
24
@ 22, I wonder what possible elaboration could change that whole outlook and make it appear that Romney has ANY vision whatsoever.
26
@19 Yes, there are different Palestinian factions. Some are Islamic religious fanatics others are more secular. They all seem to be hell bent on killing as many Jews as possible.
@23 I think who ever wins the election in November will have a lot on his plate. If Romney thinks resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict shouldn't be a priority, I think that's a reasonable position to take.
@23 I think who ever wins the election in November will have a lot on his plate. If Romney thinks resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict shouldn't be a priority, I think that's a reasonable position to take.
27
I'm still trying to figure out: how exactly is Iran ambitious for a nuclear *weapon*?
http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/netanyah…
War criminal Bibi can go straight to hell.
http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/netanyah…
War criminal Bibi can go straight to hell.
29
@ 26... again... where is that being expressed in this clip?
I usually have a lot of patience with you, but I'm starting to believe that you're being deliberately disingenuous. If you're going to allege that there are other reasonable interpretations of what Romney means, you have to show your work.
I usually have a lot of patience with you, but I'm starting to believe that you're being deliberately disingenuous. If you're going to allege that there are other reasonable interpretations of what Romney means, you have to show your work.
30
@28 Well, there's plenty of information from suspect sources --the same trustworthy folks who told us leaving Iraq alone would result in a mushroom cloud, SCARY!--that indicates they're enriching uranium despite the fatwa from the Supreme Leader. We'll see, I guess. If America's co-president Bibi gets his way we'll be there in no time.
I can't say I blame anyone for trying to get nukes with Israel always trying to find a reason to go in there and bomb them.
I can't say I blame anyone for trying to get nukes with Israel always trying to find a reason to go in there and bomb them.
31
You know exactly fuck-all about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
If Palestinian radical want to drive Israelis into the sea, what, exactly, do you think Israeli radicals want to do to the Palestinians?
They all seem to be hell bent on killing as many Jews as possible.
You know exactly fuck-all about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
If Palestinian radical want to drive Israelis into the sea, what, exactly, do you think Israeli radicals want to do to the Palestinians?
34
@29 At the beginning of the clip, Romney says that "the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable" because the Palestinians aren't interested in peace. I think that's true.
@31 From the Israeli perspective resolving the conflict militarily makes a certain kind of sense because Israel has a powerful army. Perpetuating the cycle of violence from the Palestinians' position of abject weakness is shear lunacy. I think Bibi Netanyahu is a son of a bitch, but I think he's a rational son of a bitch who would make peace with the Palestinians given the proper incentives. The same does not seem to be true of the other side.
@31 From the Israeli perspective resolving the conflict militarily makes a certain kind of sense because Israel has a powerful army. Perpetuating the cycle of violence from the Palestinians' position of abject weakness is shear lunacy. I think Bibi Netanyahu is a son of a bitch, but I think he's a rational son of a bitch who would make peace with the Palestinians given the proper incentives. The same does not seem to be true of the other side.
35
@26 dude, you're really missing the point of the Palestinians that want a two state solution. There's a lot of them. They simply want to coexist.
36
@35 Which Palestinian faction favors peace with Israel? How many members does it have? I'm sure there are some Palestinians who favor peace with Israel, I just don't think there are very many of them.
37
@ 34, that's not the same as "I don't think we should give this a priority," which is what I'm asking of you.
This isn't about Israel and Palestine, this is about Romney's plans for it. And he SHOULD have plans because it is one of the central issues of American foreign policy. There is simply no relegating it down the list of priorities. (Not that that's what Romney is doing here.)
This isn't about Israel and Palestine, this is about Romney's plans for it. And he SHOULD have plans because it is one of the central issues of American foreign policy. There is simply no relegating it down the list of priorities. (Not that that's what Romney is doing here.)
38
@34,
The only "incentives" Netanyahu would agree to is the Palestinians fucking off and abandoning the West Bank to go... somewhere else. That's ultimately what makes you out to be a buffoon, your lack of knowledge (or willful ignorance) that most Israelis in government want the Palestinians to go away or just die. They will never accept a two-state solution because the West Bank is Judea-Samara, and even those few Israeli politicians who aren't religious nutjobs know that the religious nutjobs will spank them in the next election if they let the Holy Land go. And that's not taking into account how much Israel's economy relies on low paid and subservient Palestinian labor.
99 percent of Israel's problems would go away if they abandoned the West Bank settlements, built a huge wall along the 1948 borders (excepting Jerusalem since that's their capital), and left the Palestinians to stew in their own juices. But they will never do that, not without someone forcing them to, whether the United States or the Palestinians attacking them to the point that everyday Israeli citizens demand two states.
And what is your solution anyway, given that, again, you know fuck-all about the situation? Israel continues to open itself up to attacks because it won't grant Palestinians citizenship OR let them set up their own state. Other than the Palestinians eating shit and dying (as Israeli hardliners want) what is your proposition for ending the conflict?
The only "incentives" Netanyahu would agree to is the Palestinians fucking off and abandoning the West Bank to go... somewhere else. That's ultimately what makes you out to be a buffoon, your lack of knowledge (or willful ignorance) that most Israelis in government want the Palestinians to go away or just die. They will never accept a two-state solution because the West Bank is Judea-Samara, and even those few Israeli politicians who aren't religious nutjobs know that the religious nutjobs will spank them in the next election if they let the Holy Land go. And that's not taking into account how much Israel's economy relies on low paid and subservient Palestinian labor.
99 percent of Israel's problems would go away if they abandoned the West Bank settlements, built a huge wall along the 1948 borders (excepting Jerusalem since that's their capital), and left the Palestinians to stew in their own juices. But they will never do that, not without someone forcing them to, whether the United States or the Palestinians attacking them to the point that everyday Israeli citizens demand two states.
And what is your solution anyway, given that, again, you know fuck-all about the situation? Israel continues to open itself up to attacks because it won't grant Palestinians citizenship OR let them set up their own state. Other than the Palestinians eating shit and dying (as Israeli hardliners want) what is your proposition for ending the conflict?
39
@24 I just finished a quick listen up to that edit in the full posting of the video. It starts at around 6 minutes in the first half as re-posted in the NYT. My impression is that by "I didn't delve into it," is that the former secretary of state was suggesting a negotiated settlement whereby Israel gives something up, and that is what Romney objects to. He didn't delve into his objection with the former secretary of state. I think Romney looks terrible in this video, and I'm getting happier by the day as Obama's reelection chances improve. But I feel that Mother Jones edited the short version of the video to make Romney's statement about not delving into it appear worse than it was.
40
@26
"They all seem to be hell bent on killing as many Jews as possible."
If that were correct then there would not be any Israel left.
Your understanding of the issue is non-existent.
All you know is what you've seen on right-wing sites about the most vocal and violent of the Palestinians.
"They all seem to be hell bent on killing as many Jews as possible."
If that were correct then there would not be any Israel left.
Your understanding of the issue is non-existent.
All you know is what you've seen on right-wing sites about the most vocal and violent of the Palestinians.
41
@37 I think not spending a lot time on a problem that you are unlikely to solve is quite sensible. Lord knows Obama hasn't done much to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict. I suspect that privately Obama pretty much agrees with Romney about the situation being hopeless. The difference is that Obama would never come out and say such a thing because he is a better politician than Romney.
@38 Back in 2000, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip in return for peace. Yasser Arafat turned down that deal. The israelis only elect douche bags like Netanyahu because in the past when moderate Israeli leaders have made concessions the Palestinians have given nothing in return.
@38 Back in 2000, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip in return for peace. Yasser Arafat turned down that deal. The israelis only elect douche bags like Netanyahu because in the past when moderate Israeli leaders have made concessions the Palestinians have given nothing in return.
42
@41
At least quote Wikipedia in full when you pull from it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_proc…
The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak reportedly offered the Palestinian leader approximately 95% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip, if 69 Jewish settlements (which comprise 85% of the West Bank's Jewish settlers) be ceded to Israel. East Jerusalem would have fallen for the most part under Israeli sovereignty, with the exception of most suburbs with heavy non-Jewish populations surrounded by areas annexed to Israel. The issue of the Palestinian right of return would be solved through significant monetary reparations.
Looks like you left off some important parts in your claim.
Why did you leave off those parts?
Is it because your claim cannot stand if all the facts are included?
At least quote Wikipedia in full when you pull from it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_proc…
The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak reportedly offered the Palestinian leader approximately 95% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip, if 69 Jewish settlements (which comprise 85% of the West Bank's Jewish settlers) be ceded to Israel. East Jerusalem would have fallen for the most part under Israeli sovereignty, with the exception of most suburbs with heavy non-Jewish populations surrounded by areas annexed to Israel. The issue of the Palestinian right of return would be solved through significant monetary reparations.
Looks like you left off some important parts in your claim.
Why did you leave off those parts?
Is it because your claim cannot stand if all the facts are included?
43
@40 So you think the Palestinians could drive the Israelis into the sea but they choose not to out of the goodness of their hearts? If that's true why is it that whenever Palestinians and Israelis fight, many more arabs than jews die? If they had the power to do so wouldn't the Palestinians respond to Israeli aggression by paying them back in equal measure?
44
@42 "Looks like you left off some important parts in your claim. Why did you leave off those parts?"
I try to keep my comments short in the hope that somebody will actually read them.
I try to keep my comments short in the hope that somebody will actually read them.
45
@ 41, no plan except to hope for the best - a valid interpretation of his remarks, unless you can tell me why it isn't - is not "I'm not giving this priority," an interpretation you keep repeating but support only with quotes that don't support such an interpretation.
46
@44
"I try to keep my comments short in the hope that somebody will actually read them."
Really?
And not because the facts you leave out tend to contradict your position?
But then, you think a black fireman is more likely to commit a crime than a white fireman.
"I try to keep my comments short in the hope that somebody will actually read them."
Really?
And not because the facts you leave out tend to contradict your position?
But then, you think a black fireman is more likely to commit a crime than a white fireman.
48
@47
"How do you feel about the way Obama has handled the Arab-Israel conflict?"
You mean by helping all those nascent democracies in the mideast?
But then, you think a black fireman is more likely to commit a crime than a white fireman.
"How do you feel about the way Obama has handled the Arab-Israel conflict?"
You mean by helping all those nascent democracies in the mideast?
But then, you think a black fireman is more likely to commit a crime than a white fireman.
49
@ 47, that's not the issue. The issue is Romney's intentions for handling the Arab-Israeli conflict. He brought it up himself, and he shows that he has no vision. That's the thesis of this post, and it's borne out by Mitt's actual spoken remarks. Not that he intends to lower the priority, but that he'd rather not do anything at all. If Romney doesn't address the job Obama's done so far, then it's not relevant to the discussion.
50
@36 they're not in factions. They're everyday people who simply want to live. You might be surprised but that's the majority. Most people don't want anything to do with politics, this is true across the world. Most people want to feel safe, live a productive life and know their family is safe.
I really think you should try meeting some normal (not political) Palestinians. Or you could travel and notice that that most people want these very basic conditions of life, most of us don't want other people to be killed.
I really think you should try meeting some normal (not political) Palestinians. Or you could travel and notice that that most people want these very basic conditions of life, most of us don't want other people to be killed.
51
No one gives a rat's ass about "two states" or "one state" other than rich, right-wing Jews who use this shit to convince other Jews to vote Republican with their money. You're talking about a small fraction of 1.5% of the population. Everyone else utterly ignores this shit.
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