Slog
News & ArtsSunday, September 16, 2012
Religion Slog Mormon Study: Abraham 3:23
Posted by Goldy on Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 7:00 AM
[Slog Bible Study is on hiatus through the November election as we honor Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney by studying the scriptures of his Mormon religion.]
Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:23
And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
Discuss.
2
The book of mormon is indecipherable. It's almost like some schmuck just made it up as he went along, trying his best to sound old timey.
5
Is this where Mormons get that thing about souls hanging around waiting to be born, which is why they have so many kids?
8
The bible never calls this place Earth, because when it was written there was no concept that this was just one of many planets. People back then thought this was all there is.
This mormon crap was written later, so it mentions Earth. However, it retains the idea that things were created specifically for man. This implies that they cannot be used up or destroyed, as Dominionists claim, and further excuses environmental abuse.
This mormon crap was written later, so it mentions Earth. However, it retains the idea that things were created specifically for man. This implies that they cannot be used up or destroyed, as Dominionists claim, and further excuses environmental abuse.
9
@2: This bit is not actually from the Book of Mormon. It's from "The Pearl of Great Price". Mormons have four books of canon: the bible, the book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants (comprised of the revelations Joseph Smith), and the Pearl of Great Price.
The PoGP was translated by Joe from an Egyptian papyrus he got from some antiquities dealer. A bit awkward when it turned out the papyrus actually contained nothing like the text of the PoGP ...
The PoGP was translated by Joe from an Egyptian papyrus he got from some antiquities dealer. A bit awkward when it turned out the papyrus actually contained nothing like the text of the PoGP ...
12
Hey you guys, this is a retranslation of the Genesis creation story created when Joseph Smith bought some Egyptian mummies from a huckster named Michael Chandler. With the mummies were some scrolls which Smith translated as the book of Abraham but once people figured out how to translate Egyptian, discovered that that these scrolls were no more than run of the mill funereal scrolls.
What makes this interesting is that this passage is the basis of the multiplicity of Gods doctrine, the idea that we can all become gods ourselves, the idea in Mormonism that matter was always around but unorganized and that it took a God to organize matter into the universe.
It also places Michael the Archangel as supreme creator of the universe which gave way to Brigham Young teaching that Adam (Michael the Archangel) from the garden actually was God, who upon falling from the garden, had kids, founded a church, then when he was old, went back into the Garden, ate from the tree of life, and was taken back into heaven.
Most mormons don't know that the scrolls upon which these particularly mormon doctrines are predicated were not burned up in a fire in the 1850's, but found in the 1960's and determined to be fraudulent. Mormon apologists will tell you that Joseph Smith was inspired by the presence of those scrolls to "reveal" this new, more complicated creation myth. Others will say that the real scrolls were consumed in a fire. You decide.
Another complication is that Abraham is there from the very beginning as are all the old testament prophets, "Rulers", from this passage. They show up later as angels who teach Joseph Smith, you know, from everlasting to everlasting.
So there you go, Sloggers. Have at it.
What makes this interesting is that this passage is the basis of the multiplicity of Gods doctrine, the idea that we can all become gods ourselves, the idea in Mormonism that matter was always around but unorganized and that it took a God to organize matter into the universe.
It also places Michael the Archangel as supreme creator of the universe which gave way to Brigham Young teaching that Adam (Michael the Archangel) from the garden actually was God, who upon falling from the garden, had kids, founded a church, then when he was old, went back into the Garden, ate from the tree of life, and was taken back into heaven.
Most mormons don't know that the scrolls upon which these particularly mormon doctrines are predicated were not burned up in a fire in the 1850's, but found in the 1960's and determined to be fraudulent. Mormon apologists will tell you that Joseph Smith was inspired by the presence of those scrolls to "reveal" this new, more complicated creation myth. Others will say that the real scrolls were consumed in a fire. You decide.
Another complication is that Abraham is there from the very beginning as are all the old testament prophets, "Rulers", from this passage. They show up later as angels who teach Joseph Smith, you know, from everlasting to everlasting.
So there you go, Sloggers. Have at it.
14
If Romney wins, are we doing Mormon study for four years?
There's plenty of crazy shit to discuss
There's plenty of crazy shit to discuss
19
@14 Oh god, I hope not. There's plenty of crazy in LDS scripture, but it's so godawful bloated and poorly written that it's nearly impossible to present the crazy without exegesis. And attempting to explain these verses would go against the conceit of Slog Bible/Mormon Study.
20
We learn that real estate on earth is far more desirable than real estate in heaven as all them angles wanted to move to earth.
23
Do you go through the books looking for the silliest parts? Or does their whole body of scripture read like some adolescent gamer trying to talk like a medieval knight?
24
@23 The latter. Sure, I'm Googling for pointers to the silly parts. But I'm also attempting to slog my way through scripture, and it all reads like this.
I've never before truly appreciated the language of the King James Bible until I compared to it to this lame parody. I mean, doctrine aside, this is truly the worst written holy text I've ever read. Joseph Smith makes L. Ron Hubbard sound like Shakespeare.
I've never before truly appreciated the language of the King James Bible until I compared to it to this lame parody. I mean, doctrine aside, this is truly the worst written holy text I've ever read. Joseph Smith makes L. Ron Hubbard sound like Shakespeare.
25
19
24
So where is it?
Again, so far,
compared to the OT,
it has been bland and boring.
The fanboys make fun of the syntax
then revert to their pet rumors
and tired bigotries
about mormons
("snake oil salesman!" "marry your daughters!"...)
(which have nothing to do with the presented text...)
after years of the slog bigots ranting about the crazy mormons we would expect a little more crazy.....
24
So where is it?
Again, so far,
compared to the OT,
it has been bland and boring.
The fanboys make fun of the syntax
then revert to their pet rumors
and tired bigotries
about mormons
("snake oil salesman!" "marry your daughters!"...)
(which have nothing to do with the presented text...)
after years of the slog bigots ranting about the crazy mormons we would expect a little more crazy.....
26
Romney isn't going to win. And he's going to stop any other Mormon ever winning in future. We're going to remember this crap even if they find someone not as hugely unlikeable.
30
Goldy, I would recommend starting with Doctrine and Covenants section 132 and comparing and contrasting to Mosiah from the BofM. Oh, there's more.
31
Modern Eqyptologists have debunked Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham. See it here in a side by side format:
http://www.mormoninfographics.com/search…
http://www.mormoninfographics.com/search…
32
Modern Eqyptologists have already debunked this translation of the "Book of Abraham"
See it here in side by side format:
http://www.mormoninfographics.com/search…
See it here in side by side format:
http://www.mormoninfographics.com/search…
34
@26 - I doubt it. Romney is losing, but his Mormonism really doesn't seem to be the reason. He's losing because he's an obvious power hungry slimeball with no empathy who flip-flops way too much and keeps putting his foot in his mouth. A more personally appealing candidate who just so happens to be a Mormon could easily overcome all the anti-Mormon bigotry, just as JFK overcame the disadvantage imposed by his Catholicism.
36
No wonder Mormon families drive this stuff like a stake into their kids' heads, because there's absolutely no hope of any adult voluntarily converting to this craziness.
39
#24: Sources tell me that the Jehovah's Witness material is even more grammatically boogered. People outside the religion are "suchlike ones".
40
One of Danny's most Ardent FanBoys
(Bob. In Baltimore....)
claims to have found a secret recording of Danny from 2006
in which he endorses legalizing Polygamy.
He has even posted a transcript
(on Slog, for crying out loud.
Danny Punked on his own blog!
damn- the internets are a jungle....)
"I have the same reaction to legalizing marriage for gays as I do for polygamists. What’s the big deal? Legalize it. It’s kind of like arguing against giving women the vote because then women will want to enter the work force. (Horrors!)"-Dan Savage
Can any of you girls help us out here?
We thought Danny was afraid we'd run out of wimmin if we let guys have more than one....
One of Danny's most Ardent FanBoys
(Bob. In Baltimore....)
claims to have found a secret recording of Danny from 2006
in which he endorses legalizing Polygamy.
He has even posted a transcript
(on Slog, for crying out loud.
Danny Punked on his own blog!
damn- the internets are a jungle....)
"I have the same reaction to legalizing marriage for gays as I do for polygamists. What’s the big deal? Legalize it. It’s kind of like arguing against giving women the vote because then women will want to enter the work force. (Horrors!)"-Dan Savage
Can any of you girls help us out here?
We thought Danny was afraid we'd run out of wimmin if we let guys have more than one....
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