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News & ArtsThursday, September 6, 2012
Transportation / City City Hits Milestone on Transit Plan That Could Bring "Rapid Streetcar" to Downtown Seattle
Posted by Goldy on Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:22 AM
One of Mayor McGinn's unheralded accomplishments that hasn't been talked about much was the passage of his Transit Master Plan. First proposed in May, 2010, it appeared to fall victim to city hall politics and/or inertia until the council approved it largely intact in April of this year.
Well today the city will announce a major milestone, the selection of Nelson\Nygaard as the contractor to move forward with planning of the City Center Connector, a high-capacity transit corridor connecting the existing South Lake Union streetcar with the First Hill line that is currently under construction. The planning phase is largely funded by a $900,000 Federal Transit Administration grant, and will study options that include a "rapid streetcar" through the downtown Seattle. (Whatever that is. I presume something somewhat grade separated, as opposed to just a street car with the word "Rapid" painted on it.)
Public outreach and comment will begin in October, and a final draft plan is expected to be presented by the end of 2013.
2
Jesus, that's exactly what we need. Yet another half-assed (looking at you, Broadway Trolley, Monorail, LINK, SLUT... am I missing one?) transit system that we can pour money into instead of PICKING ONE and running with it.
3
I'm with @2. We don't need more mile-long "connectors"; we need a goddamn TRANSIT SYSTEM. One that lets you get where you're going without having to transfer six times; one that doesn't just duplicate already-existing bus routes.
4
#2
The reason we built tunnels is because LINK can't go up hills.
But SLUT can go up hills and doesn't need tunnels.
I'd rather have a SLUT than a LINK, but I realize I'm in the minority here.
5
Maybe it’s a street car with a Speedy Gonzales head that when it blows it horn it say "¡Ándele! ¡Ándele! ¡Arriba! ¡Arriba! ¡Epa! ¡Epa! ¡Epa! Yeehaw!"
6
@4 SLUT is stuck in traffic. Even if you give up a car travel lane (good luck with that), you still need to deal with intersections.
We need Seattle Subway. Hopefully the results of this study are broad enough to support it.
We need Seattle Subway. Hopefully the results of this study are broad enough to support it.
7
Seattle, well hell the entire country at this point, let's identify a problem and then just take a piss on it then say "Look at me! I helped put out a forrest fire! Aren't I good?!?"
The best news, this won't be up and going until 2020 or later.
The best news, this won't be up and going until 2020 or later.
8
I think it is great that transit planners in Seattle are proposing CONNECTING things. One of the biggest frustrations with the modes that we have is that they almost but don't quite connect with the next mode. The SLUT doesn't go into Westlake and connect with either the tunnel or the monorail. There is no easy crossing between LINK, the Train station, and Sounder trains. The Burke-Gillman trail disappears into the gravel in Ballard.
This connector is a great idea as it starts to stitch things together a little.
This connector is a great idea as it starts to stitch things together a little.
9
"I presume something somewhat grade separated, as opposed to just a street car with the word "Rapid" painted on it."
No, silly, they'll paint it red, too!
No, silly, they'll paint it red, too!
10
Of all the sub-par ideas in the Transit Master Plan -- most of which involve slow, ambling streetcars that even the proponents' own (low five digit) ridership estimates reveal would have very limited use -- the City Center Connector is by far the most embarrassing.
This doesn't just duplicate existing buses. It duplicates the existing subway tunnel directly beneath it. The one with the trains stuck behind slow-loading buses. The one with such overbuilt, cavernous stations that a 1.1-mile trip across downtown is prohibitively arduous and time-consuming in a way it would be on no other subway in the world.
If the subway tunnel worked, you wouldn't need to spend millions more "connecting the South Lake Union streetcar with the First Hill line" because that connection would already exist.
@Goldy: Our new "RapidRide" buses are just buses with the word "Rapid" painted on them. That's evidently how we roll.
This doesn't just duplicate existing buses. It duplicates the existing subway tunnel directly beneath it. The one with the trains stuck behind slow-loading buses. The one with such overbuilt, cavernous stations that a 1.1-mile trip across downtown is prohibitively arduous and time-consuming in a way it would be on no other subway in the world.
If the subway tunnel worked, you wouldn't need to spend millions more "connecting the South Lake Union streetcar with the First Hill line" because that connection would already exist.
@Goldy: Our new "RapidRide" buses are just buses with the word "Rapid" painted on them. That's evidently how we roll.
12
Note: This is also SDOT's way of preparing to sell a "connected" streetcar to Fremont and Ballard (as an extension of the SLUT), in lieu of the actually rapid transit that Northwest Seattle so desperately needs. It should be opposed vociferously.
13
It never ceases to amaze me how Seattleites will bitch and moan about any progress which doesn't meet their own fairy tale vision of an issue, failing to acknowledge that the consensus and momentum needed to accomplish ANYTHING in this city is rare.
The Connector is a rare step forward for Seattle transit. Is it a subway? No, but the subway is a pie-in-the-sky idea for now.
People like to ride rail. Whether their preference is justified or not is a moot point; more rail is coming because Seattleites have asked for it. LINK can't deliver as quickly as the Streetcar Network can. How is connecting the lines a bad thing?
Nothing from the Mayor's Office on this yet... Nice scoop, Goldy.
The Connector is a rare step forward for Seattle transit. Is it a subway? No, but the subway is a pie-in-the-sky idea for now.
People like to ride rail. Whether their preference is justified or not is a moot point; more rail is coming because Seattleites have asked for it. LINK can't deliver as quickly as the Streetcar Network can. How is connecting the lines a bad thing?
Nothing from the Mayor's Office on this yet... Nice scoop, Goldy.
14
"The Connector is a rare step forward for Seattle transit."
A step forward? Spending tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to provide yet another connection between Westlake and Pioneer Square? One that will get stuck in traffic and behind improperly parked UPS vans?
No, this is more feel-good bullshit because this city can't find the wherewithal to build actual rapid transit.
A step forward? Spending tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to provide yet another connection between Westlake and Pioneer Square? One that will get stuck in traffic and behind improperly parked UPS vans?
No, this is more feel-good bullshit because this city can't find the wherewithal to build actual rapid transit.
16
This is all fucking stupid. Toss out the entire model and replace it with a series of bus loops.
A central loop from 1st north to Denny to SLU to Broadway to the hospitals to the ID/King street station to the stadiums to 1st to Denny and so on. Have a south Seattle loop, a West Seattle loop, a Queen Anne/Interbay/Ballard loop, an I-5 east to the lake loop, a north Seattle loop. Each loop slightly overlaps at a major terminus. West Seattle and Central and South can overlap at the ID tunnel station. Then you can ride Central if you wanted and jump off at the Broadway Link station and hop on the Northeast loop and get off at the UW.
It's a few jumps but it's a zero-brain power route if you wanted to say go from the West Seattle Junction to see a UW game.
Then you just create a bunch of hub-and-spoke lines for all the other areas and neighborhoods, aimed into downtown. You can then jump on or off these neighborhood lines from the loops.
A central loop from 1st north to Denny to SLU to Broadway to the hospitals to the ID/King street station to the stadiums to 1st to Denny and so on. Have a south Seattle loop, a West Seattle loop, a Queen Anne/Interbay/Ballard loop, an I-5 east to the lake loop, a north Seattle loop. Each loop slightly overlaps at a major terminus. West Seattle and Central and South can overlap at the ID tunnel station. Then you can ride Central if you wanted and jump off at the Broadway Link station and hop on the Northeast loop and get off at the UW.
It's a few jumps but it's a zero-brain power route if you wanted to say go from the West Seattle Junction to see a UW game.
Then you just create a bunch of hub-and-spoke lines for all the other areas and neighborhoods, aimed into downtown. You can then jump on or off these neighborhood lines from the loops.
17
So, if I understand this correctly, the proposal is to STUDY for A YEAR PLUS whether and how to LINK the STREETCAR LINES to each other?
Twice-approved Monorail System, come back, all is forgiven!
Twice-approved Monorail System, come back, all is forgiven!
18
To be clear, this work will advance connecting the First Hill streetcar to the South Lake Union streetcar. It doesn't mean that connection will "run in traffic", it will identify several alternatives. Part of the way we can be sure that streetcar isn't in traffic is to tie future construction funding to a requirement for exclusive right of way (like Link in the Rainier Valley, which does not run in traffic).
Any transit study takes a year plus - you have to study traffic patterns for at least a year (and before that you have to determine what data you need to sample) to know what future use will be like across a year, and determine cost-effectiveness. If you don't want to do that, contact the federal government, they require it before they'll help fund projects.
As we have almost zero local money to connect the First Hill streetcar to the South Lake Union streetcar, this is the next step in getting a connection funded. Building this would not be a "new line", it would allow First Hill trains to go all the way to SLU and vice versa. It helps tie together the pieces.
Any transit study takes a year plus - you have to study traffic patterns for at least a year (and before that you have to determine what data you need to sample) to know what future use will be like across a year, and determine cost-effectiveness. If you don't want to do that, contact the federal government, they require it before they'll help fund projects.
As we have almost zero local money to connect the First Hill streetcar to the South Lake Union streetcar, this is the next step in getting a connection funded. Building this would not be a "new line", it would allow First Hill trains to go all the way to SLU and vice versa. It helps tie together the pieces.
19
And yes, we need faster transit than this to connect all of our neighborhoods! That isn't "instead", it's "also". That's why I started Seattle Subway (http://seattlesubway.org).
22
I like Joe's suggestion (@16).
The massive public works project approach is probably good for the labor and developer crowd, but more unrealistic financially. And certainly slower to deliver.
The massive public works project approach is probably good for the labor and developer crowd, but more unrealistic financially. And certainly slower to deliver.
23
It's not about adding the word "rapid" or painting it red or putting on flames, oldsters. You paint the hood black. Flat black. Paint the hood black and sit back and enjoy the rapidity, 21st Century style.
Prolly get re-entry burns when you stop if the hood is painted black. Beware.
Prolly get re-entry burns when you stop if the hood is painted black. Beware.
24
If only there were some way to build a grade-separated system that cost half as much per rider mile. Maybe put the tracks up above the street, like that monorail down by the glass bauble museum?
Nah, there's never be enough construction company pork for the city to support that.
Nah, there's never be enough construction company pork for the city to support that.
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