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News & ArtsTuesday, September 4, 2012
2012 Those 16 Trillion Bones
Posted by Charles Mudede on Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 5:02 PM
Even Fox can't hide the truth of this debt:
Mitt Romney lamented "the enormous debt" being handed the nation's children, while House Speaker John Boehner called it a "sad reminder of President Obama's broken promise to cut the deficit in half."The debt was at 10 trillion when Bush left office. A good chunk of that money went into paying for a war built on lies. Obama's debt has a lot to do with the maintenance of deep, Bush-era tax cuts for the rich during a deep recession caused by a banking sector that's run by the rich. There's no story here. Next.
But if you thought China's been doing most of the bankrolling, you might be surprised to learn who really holds our federal mortgage.
Fully two-thirds of the national debt is owed to the U.S. government, American investors and future retirees, through the Social Security Trust Fund and pension plans for civil service workers and military personnel. China, it turns out, holds less than 8 percent of the money our government has borrowed over the years.
1
"Obama's debt has a lot to do with the maintenance of deep, Bush-era tax cuts for the rich during a deep recession caused by a banking sector that's run by the rich."
No disagreement there.
But if changing that situation is what it takes to cut the deficit and the debt then changing that situation is what Obama needs to do.
Start repealing the Bush tax cuts.
Start closing the tax loopholes.
Start breaking up the banks.
Until he starts, he won't make any progress.
No disagreement there.
But if changing that situation is what it takes to cut the deficit and the debt then changing that situation is what Obama needs to do.
Start repealing the Bush tax cuts.
Start closing the tax loopholes.
Start breaking up the banks.
Until he starts, he won't make any progress.
3
Given the notion about China, combined with Hillary Clinton's remarks would have one, lay folks like me, to believe that the Administration at least knew of the dangers facing this country. We couldn't be more wrong.
As Romney and Ryan have pointed out, this country's debt is primarily because of entitlements. Given that the president has rejected the advice of his own bi-partisan commission on the deficit; and pledges to not end 'Medicare as we know it' as he alludes to Ryan's plan, the president also neglects to acknowledge to the smarter-than-he-is American people that mathematics by itself will not only end Medicare as we know it but Social Security as we know it. True leadership means tough decisions.
There are not enough workers to sustain the aging generations unless some relief is put into the system - such as voluntary federally matched medical savings accounts and free market private insurance.
As Romney and Ryan have pointed out, this country's debt is primarily because of entitlements. Given that the president has rejected the advice of his own bi-partisan commission on the deficit; and pledges to not end 'Medicare as we know it' as he alludes to Ryan's plan, the president also neglects to acknowledge to the smarter-than-he-is American people that mathematics by itself will not only end Medicare as we know it but Social Security as we know it. True leadership means tough decisions.
There are not enough workers to sustain the aging generations unless some relief is put into the system - such as voluntary federally matched medical savings accounts and free market private insurance.
5
@3
"There are not enough workers to sustain the aging generations unless some relief is put into the system - such as voluntary federally matched medical savings accounts and free market private insurance."
That contradicts your earlier claim about there being a problem.
Your "solution" to the "problem" is to take money out of the system?
You should stick to defending racists and bigots.
You should look at how other countries manage this without the resources that we have in America.
"There are not enough workers to sustain the aging generations unless some relief is put into the system - such as voluntary federally matched medical savings accounts and free market private insurance."
That contradicts your earlier claim about there being a problem.
Your "solution" to the "problem" is to take money out of the system?
You should stick to defending racists and bigots.
You should look at how other countries manage this without the resources that we have in America.
7
@6,
"Entitlements" is secret code for "Sure, you paid into the system all your life, but, fuck you, we don't feel like paying you back. Enjoy your cat food, grandma."
"Entitlements" is secret code for "Sure, you paid into the system all your life, but, fuck you, we don't feel like paying you back. Enjoy your cat food, grandma."
8
@7: Entitlements is a secret code? It's not like I'm saying that entitlements should not be honored. The Republican nominee and his running mate are at least talking about optional, voluntary, and complimentary private investment relief in a market that allows interstate choices in private health insurance. The risk is slightly higher than bonds, so at least it provides a greater return.
The keep the status quo argument of the Obama administration and Democrats is inherently unpractical in addressing our deficit.
The keep the status quo argument of the Obama administration and Democrats is inherently unpractical in addressing our deficit.
9
@7,
Impractical, and the Democrats have already suggested making small reforms to Social Security and Medicare. Too bad the Republicans rejected it because it included modest tax increases.
What in the fuck are you talking about?
Impractical, and the Democrats have already suggested making small reforms to Social Security and Medicare. Too bad the Republicans rejected it because it included modest tax increases.
The Republican nominee and his running mate are at least talking about optional, voluntary, and complimentary private investment relief in a market that allows interstate choices in private health insurance.
What in the fuck are you talking about?
10
One upside of Romney somehow pulling this off is that we won't have to hear about deficits for the next four to eight years.
11
@8
"The Republican nominee and his running mate are at least talking about optional, voluntary, and complimentary private investment relief in a market that allows interstate choices in private health insurance."
And when that "private investment" fails, then what?
Keep avoiding the issue.
"The keep the status quo argument of the Obama administration and Democrats is inherently unpractical in addressing our deficit."
You were on about "entitlements" (dog whistle!).
Now you're on about the deficit.
They are not the same.
Here's an easy one for you.
How much of the budget does military spending take up?
Hmmmmmmm?
"The Republican nominee and his running mate are at least talking about optional, voluntary, and complimentary private investment relief in a market that allows interstate choices in private health insurance."
And when that "private investment" fails, then what?
Keep avoiding the issue.
"The keep the status quo argument of the Obama administration and Democrats is inherently unpractical in addressing our deficit."
You were on about "entitlements" (dog whistle!).
Now you're on about the deficit.
They are not the same.
Here's an easy one for you.
How much of the budget does military spending take up?
Hmmmmmmm?
13
The debt wasn't a policy issue until Obama was in office, and the debt hawks are unwilling to admit how expenditures initiated during 2000-2008 have contributed to the debt. This is a plot you simply must see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra…
The GOP is not having a serious discussion of any kind. Or, they feel very strongly but are not intellectually honest about any of it.
The GOP is not having a serious discussion of any kind. Or, they feel very strongly but are not intellectually honest about any of it.
14
@3, What Ryan is proposing for medicare is a version of the tax vouchers that exists in Obama's ACA plan. Wouldn't it be prudent to see how that works out as it is implemented there before you rip the rug out from under millions of seniors whose lives depend on medicare? Like it or not Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA healthcare systems work, not ideally perhaps, but they work.
Speaking of the VA, does any institution exist in this country that is more Socialist then the Military?
With regards to Social Security, I'll simply remind you that it was the Republicans who did away with "pay as you go". It was the Republicans who decided to take Clinton's surplus and piss it away rather then pay back the Social Security fund for all those loans the Republicans took from it.
Obama walked away from Bowels Simpson after Ryan and the Republicans made clear they'd rather sacrifice the US credit rating then negotiate in good faith.
As for your "interstate choices in private health insurance" that is in ACA. It is referred to as State insurance exchanges, the Feds only step in if the State in question fails to set up such an exchange by the implementation deadline. In either case ACA is and remains a private insurer system not a single payer public health care federal system.
I realize this maybe hard for you to grasp but ACA is what Ryan is proposing to turn Medicare into. Wouldn't it be better, more conservative, to see how ACA turns out first?
Speaking of the VA, does any institution exist in this country that is more Socialist then the Military?
With regards to Social Security, I'll simply remind you that it was the Republicans who did away with "pay as you go". It was the Republicans who decided to take Clinton's surplus and piss it away rather then pay back the Social Security fund for all those loans the Republicans took from it.
Obama walked away from Bowels Simpson after Ryan and the Republicans made clear they'd rather sacrifice the US credit rating then negotiate in good faith.
As for your "interstate choices in private health insurance" that is in ACA. It is referred to as State insurance exchanges, the Feds only step in if the State in question fails to set up such an exchange by the implementation deadline. In either case ACA is and remains a private insurer system not a single payer public health care federal system.
I realize this maybe hard for you to grasp but ACA is what Ryan is proposing to turn Medicare into. Wouldn't it be better, more conservative, to see how ACA turns out first?
15
It's not rich people fucking around the system so they can pillage the riches of our society in complete freedom. It's the powerless that's the problem, according to the rich people fucking around the system.
In a way you got to admire such brazen assholery.
This doesn't mean we should stop insulting the idiots who agree.
In a way you got to admire such brazen assholery.
This doesn't mean we should stop insulting the idiots who agree.
16
@ 14: The military is the biggest welfare queen around. Big business wishes they'd be able to suck off the public teat to that degree.
17
Ahhhh, Mudede and the rest of the Stranger scribes FINALLY figured this out. I think I commented on this several years ago.
What SSA needs to do is call those loans. Once they do, there will be absolutely no issue with Social Security's solvency. Of course, non-retirees, as well as the then current retirees will all be in the hurt locker, but what the heck. There is too much premium beer around anyway. We all need to go back to drinking Rainier, Oly, Hidelberg in the distinctive keg bottle, and on holidays, Mickey's Big Mouths.
What SSA needs to do is call those loans. Once they do, there will be absolutely no issue with Social Security's solvency. Of course, non-retirees, as well as the then current retirees will all be in the hurt locker, but what the heck. There is too much premium beer around anyway. We all need to go back to drinking Rainier, Oly, Hidelberg in the distinctive keg bottle, and on holidays, Mickey's Big Mouths.
18
@Fairhaven has a point, if we could just go back to Rainier and Oly actually being brewed in WA....
19
@3
This could have been an easy fix. If, in 2010, the cap had been lifted on earnings subject to Social Security withholding (from $250,000 to none), that would have solved well over 90% of the projected gap. If we did it now, it would solve about 78% of the projected gap. Every day that we delay raising the cap increases the gap.
What is driving this country to the brink is the fixation on not asking a little of those who have much.
There are not enough workers to sustain the aging generations unless some relief is put into the system...
This could have been an easy fix. If, in 2010, the cap had been lifted on earnings subject to Social Security withholding (from $250,000 to none), that would have solved well over 90% of the projected gap. If we did it now, it would solve about 78% of the projected gap. Every day that we delay raising the cap increases the gap.
What is driving this country to the brink is the fixation on not asking a little of those who have much.
20
@16
I said the Military is a Socialist institution. Not that they just suck at the tit and don't give back. Indeed they do give back in a profound and meaningful way.
I said the Military is a Socialist institution. Not that they just suck at the tit and don't give back. Indeed they do give back in a profound and meaningful way.
21
Wow where did all the trolls come from?
Thank you for this interesting and unexpected data Charles. I too thought China held much more of our debt than 8%.
Thank you for this interesting and unexpected data Charles. I too thought China held much more of our debt than 8%.
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