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Thursday, August 30, 2012

Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: License to Cheat

Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:07 AM

I'm on hiatus while working on a manuscript for a new book. In the meantime, please enjoy these classic Savage Love letters pulled from previous columns. I will be back October 1st, when the book is finished. —Dan

I'm a 33-year-old man, married eight years and mostly happy. My problem seems common: My wife has lost interest in sex. We have sex once every two months, maybe once a month if I'm lucky. When we do, it seems to be good for both of us. We used to have great chemistry and were both GGG in better days.

I've been faithful, but I'm nearing some kind of tipping point. On a recent trip, I visited a strip club for the first time. Even though I knew the attention I was getting was fake, it still did the trick. Feeling desired, even in a superficial way, is something I've been missing. Once my wife mentioned that she would be okay with me going to a strip club, so I feel like I haven't violated our relationship. But I feel like I'm getting pretty close.

I don't know what to do. I could try more communication, or try to get us into counseling, but I wonder if that's fair. The situation doesn't seem to be a problem for her and every time we talk about it I feel like I'm hurting her feelings. I could also give up and find ways to meet my needs elsewhere. But the thought of hurting her or losing her as a result is unbearable. I've also wondered if a change of meds could help—loss of sexual appetite can be a side effect of the birth-control my wife takes.

Ready To Pop

My response after the jump...

First, RTP, I'm sitting on stacks of mail from spouses—husbands and wives—who aren't getting any at home, much less halfway decent sex bimonthly-or-better. So while I appreciate your frustration—I'd be fucking holes I'd kicked in the walls if my boyfriend put out just six times a year—let's recognize that (1) things could be worse and (2) you have a decent base here on which to build.

Second, RTP, yes to everything—yes to a new form of birth control (perhaps you could get a vasectomy), yes to packing your asses off to counseling (find a counselor who doesn't believe that the husband is always at fault), and yes to more open and honest communication. A few more yeses: Yes to getting the wife's hormones checked (how are her testosterone levels?), yes to looking at depression as a possible underlying cause (and good luck eliminating depression if it is), and yes to the occasional visit to a strip club (just as a matter of principle).

Third, RTP, and most importantly...

Yes to hurting the wife. Telling her about your unhappiness and forcing this issue will hurt her feelings, RTP, but catching you cheating will hurt much, much more.

Finally, RTP, I'm thinking that you wrote to me and not, say, Zombie Ann Landers because you were looking for permission to cheat. I have been known to issue a license to cheat now and then, but I can't in your case. You had a decent sex life early on—good chemistry, greater frequency, GGG action—and you "enjoy" a not-dead-yet sex life now. With some effort, some balls, and some incentive (no license to cheat), you should be able to revive this thing.

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hey microdick, your wife hasn't lost interest in sex.

She's lost interest in you....

Posted by ....any questions? on August 30, 2012 at 10:28 AM

I am a bit surprised you didn't give him a conditional license to cheat. He said he has brought up the subject and the conversation ends with him hurting his wife.

It sounds like he could get by with escorts or something that would carry little risk of getting caught. An interim solution till his wife's sex drive comes around. Something he can break off easily when she decides their sex life is a priority again. Sounds like he is already ok with the faux attention the strippers gave him.

Continuing to pester his wife for sex is only going to make her feel inadequate and put more pressure on the situation. Assuming she is over the age of 12, she knows how important sex is in a relationship. Fuck, her husband already had that conversation(s), and still no change. Not sure how she can play the victim role if she catches him.

Posted by Tim Horton on August 30, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Nicely done, Dan.

Posted by NotYourStrawMan on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

@2: He says the thought of losing her is unbearable. Taking consolation in some blame game about who's playing the "victim role" won't help him one bit if he cheats and irreparably damages their relationship.

They need to talk this one out. If she knew her marriage was on the line, she might be more open to finding a compromise or solution.

Posted by Irena on August 30, 2012 at 12:17 PM

you know, having been on the witholding end of 6-4 times per year marriage like this, the pestering only served to drive me deeper into the "don't wanna" hole. continuing to harp at your wife about not putting out is counterproductive. period. some other solution is called for. not going to say what will work here, but continued whining about it to her is guaranteed NOT to.

Posted by ellarosa on August 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Buy her a copy of 50 Shades.

Problem solved!

Posted by Pick1 on August 30, 2012 at 12:51 PM

@5 - "some other solution is called for. not going to say what will work here"

Well, that's the problem isn't it? There almost certainly isn't a "what will work here" that will magically convey to her how important this is to him without _some_ risk of annoying her or hurting her feelings.

Sometimes, you just have to put it out there - not through "pestering", but through a direct statement of "This is important to me, and you need to work with me to find a resolution or we're doomed." There really, truly is no Other Solution. Either she's hurt in the short term but eventually understands and they work it out, or it fails. If it fails, it really was doomed anyway.

Posted by Morosoph on August 30, 2012 at 1:00 PM

So, @5, if any attempt to communicate about this problem is "pestering", "harping" or "whining", I guess the only solutions left are sucking it up, cheating, or divorce.

Posted by Registered European on August 30, 2012 at 1:02 PM

@2, he has no ethical justification for cheating and exposing her to the risk of herpes, newly-incurable gonorrhea, etc. Which is why Dan didn't give him permission. If they are no longer compatible, they should get a divorce.

@4 "If she knew her marriage was on the line, she might be more open to finding a compromise or solution."

She might, or might not. But at least he'd know more about where he stands. If this weren't a re-run, I would recommend showing her this letter. It's honest and makes the point clearly. If she can appreciate that it's not about finding a hole to fuck, it's about both people feeling desired again, then maybe he can turn this around.

Posted by EricaP on August 30, 2012 at 1:17 PM

I always find myself wondering this, when people recommend finding "sex positive" councilors or "a counselor who doesn't believe that the husband is always at fault"... how does one go about doing this?

Posted by wingedkat on August 30, 2012 at 1:43 PM

Another ridiculous (and doomed), sexually incompatible relationship. Where the one wanting sex (6 times per YEAR!!!) is shamed for their desire/need, while the withholding one sits smugly on their genitalia making zero changes. DTMFA.
Dan's advice is sweet, but there's no way in hell this couple is staying together and having any satisfactory sex life. She won't budge and he'll just become more miserable each year this goes on. Run, Mr, RUN!

Posted by OutInBumF on August 30, 2012 at 2:29 PM

@9 - He doesn't mention kids. If they don't have any, I agree with you and #11. Just accept it isn't working and call a divorce.

If they have kids, I don't see why he should accept having to lose out on his family, divide their kids home, economic resources, attention, etc. If he can get his needs met elsewhere and minimize the risk of STIs that seems fair.

On the chance he brings something home, I guess I am not that empathetic to a cheated on spouse who unilateraly decides to desexualize a sexual relationship.

Posted by Tim Horton on August 30, 2012 at 2:40 PM

@5: There is nothing in this letter or in Dan's advice that indicates pestering, harping, or whining. You may be projecting your past experience on the LW. If you see ANY attempt to discuss and work on the issue of her cratering libido as pestering, harping, or whining, then that's exactly why Dan occasionally gives people passes to cheat (if divorce is not an option).

Posted by DrVanNostrand on August 30, 2012 at 2:55 PM

@12 it's called being an adult. He doesn't have a legal or ethical right to build a separate sex life while he's still having unprotected sex with her and not letting her know the situation. It's not unlikely that he'll bring home herpes, for instance (lots of escorts have herpes, and condoms aren't much use against it)... And herpes can lead to severe consequences for any children she might give birth to in the future.

Posted by EricaP on August 30, 2012 at 4:37 PM

@14: Thank you for mentioning the obvious. No matter what they ultimately do, both parties have the right to be fully aware of the situation. The STI issue is an important one, but so is old-fashioned autonomy.

Dan's advice is good. She should see a doctor, rule out medical causes. It is not normal to have no libido. He should look in the mirror -- is he still attractive? How about some sexy underwear? (seriously, those Hanes tighty whiteys are awful)

Are they both committed to their mutual satisfaction? This is something he has to ask. What does she need to get off? Does she enjoy sex when they have it? If so, can she explain why she doesn't want it more? What was going on when they got stuck in this rut, and would a change of scenery/ new toys / new moves help get them out of the rut?

He doesn't get a pass because there is so much more they can and should do before giving up or giving in.

Posted by wxPDX on August 30, 2012 at 5:02 PM

She should look in the mirror, too (lest anyone think I'm laying it all at his feet). I know when I feel fugly, sex is the LAST thing I want.

They should also both try talking a lot more in bed. Sexy talk can really help get her out of her own head if a negative internal dialogue is holding her back.

Posted by wxPDX on August 30, 2012 at 5:04 PM

What #11 said so well.

Posted by MarkyMark on August 30, 2012 at 5:52 PM

I'm confused #5 I don't see how having an honest conversation is whining and harping. I mean if his wife isn't willing to hear him out, or even work on their problems then maybe he is better off divorcing.

Posted by msanonymous on August 30, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Not quite Henry II saying, "A new wife, wife, will give me sons," but the clock is ticking. Divorce promptly, bearing in mind all the possible setbacks in establishing the relationship the LW wants.

Posted by vennominon on August 30, 2012 at 6:22 PM

@10: One good option would be the Kink Aware Professionals (KAP) directory, which is run by the National Center for Sexual Freedom (NCSF). It explicitly target people looking for kink-friendly therapists, but those people would tend to be pretty sex positive. It's a pretty small directory, though, and there's a good chance you wouldn't find someone local. https://ncsfreedom.org/resources/kink-aw…

Another possibility would be to consult the American Association of Sexuality Educators Counselors and Therapists (AASECT). They have a list of AASECT-certified therapists -- therapists who both have a clinical interest in sexuality and have received some degree of training that allows them to more effectively help patients who come to them with sex-related concerns. That list can be accessed here: http://www.aasect.org/directory.asp

If neither of these approaches works, finding a therapist who claims to specialize in sex therapy or LGBT issues can be a good approach. In my experience, those therapists tend to pretty sex positive -- although I'm sure there are exceptions.

Posted by fallen angel on August 30, 2012 at 6:30 PM

"every time we talk about it I feel like I'm hurting her feelings" is the line i was referring to, all you folks who had to jump my shit for daring to say that this kind of communication--which i heard in oh-so-many-ways for years--does not work. it's a simple statement. do with it what you will. oh, and going to a therapist to further press the issue was also counterproductive. it really was. i'm not saying she's in the right. BUT: is he suggesting good stuff (change b.c., etc), or just repeating the same plaintive "i'm unhappy" moan? in my case, it was the latter.

Posted by ellarosa on August 30, 2012 at 10:51 PM

Alternately #21 he could be suggesting things only to have her shoot them down or refuse to either consider them because of her hurt feelings.

But I've always felt in cases like this it may not be about the sex as it is about the complete disregard for one's partner's needs.

Yes whining won't fix things, but shutting down whenever the issue is brought up won't fix things either.

Posted by msanonymous on August 30, 2012 at 11:25 PM

shutting down? no. just continuing, more than ever, to not be turned on by the idea of having sex w/my husband.

Posted by ellarosa on August 31, 2012 at 10:05 AM

@23: Is there a "what worked" in your case?

Posted by avast2006 on August 31, 2012 at 2:14 PM

I wish these old letters had some kind of postscript -- did the LW respond with what happened? Or maybe only post old letters when you DO have a response or update.

Posted by california reader on August 31, 2012 at 5:42 PM

How is it that treating depression is hopeless? I found that after two years of no interest in sex with my husband who is HOT, treatment with multiple -- yes multiple -- medications has not only resurrected but improved our sex life.

Posted by Peachesmd on September 2, 2012 at 12:20 PM

@20 I'm late to this party but I found this link by way of a google search for "how to find a sex-positive therapist"

Thank you so much for your links. I've now got a long list of people to call and that means that for the first time, I have OPTIONS. I can't tell you how freeing (and still scary!) that feels. THANK YOU.

Posted by needed help on October 3, 2012 at 9:05 AM