Slog
News & ArtsThursday, August 23, 2012
2012 Now Mitt Romney Says He Can't Release His Taxes Because of God
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:43 PM
...in a forthcoming interview with Parade magazine, Romney revealed a new reason why he's hesitant to release more returns: He does not want to make public his donations to the LDS Church.
Here's what Romney told Parade, according to The Salt-Lake Tribune:"Our church doesn’t publish how much people have given. This is done entirely privately. One of the downsides of releasing one’s financial information is that this is now all public, but we had never intended our contributions to be known. It’s a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church."
How did this seem like a good idea to Romney? First of all, it brings the tax returns back to the spotlight. (Maybe he'd rather talk about the tax returns than abortion?) Second of all, it ignores the fact that he's already released one year and has promised to release another year's worth of tax returns, so that information isn't really private anymore. Third of all, it drags the Mormon thing back up, which Romney was at one point desperately afraid to discuss. If Romney's people think bringing God into this will stop the conversation cold, they don't understand the conversation.
But the biggest question I have after reading this is: How do you turn an interview with Parade magazine into something controversial? Parade publishes the easiest, most softball interviews in the world. This is another unbelievably basic mistake from a team that's simply not playing at a professional level.
(Thanks to Slog tipper Joe.)
1
I don't recall where I read this a couple of weeks ago, but there has been speculation that when Reid was calling out Romney on his taxes and said things like how Romney's dad would be ashamed of him, it may have been referring to the possibility that Romney underpaid his church, too--that is, gave less than the required 10%.
2
Romney's father was a Mormon, too, and he released TWELVE YEARS of his returns before he was even asked, saying it was the right thing to do.
You're hiding something, Mitt.
You're hiding something, Mitt.
3
@1 That totally could be it. He paid minimum on taxes to the government, using every loophole he could. I wonder if he used loopholes for his church taxes as well.
4
As I've said before, I don't know if Romney is hiding something or not, but his behavior looks exactly like the behavior of someone who has something to hide.
5
You really think he's hiding something?
I doubt anyone will ever find anything illegal on his taxes, no matter what he releases.
But that doesn't mean there isn't enough to sink his campaign in the first 10 pages of tax dodges and profits from places in the abortion business.
I doubt anyone will ever find anything illegal on his taxes, no matter what he releases.
But that doesn't mean there isn't enough to sink his campaign in the first 10 pages of tax dodges and profits from places in the abortion business.
6
Tithing is most certainly a public event in the Mormon church. We don't pass the plate but we have envelopes ready that we hand off to the nearest member of the bishopric whenever during the week or we can mail them. That might seem private, but you can't hold leadership callings, attend your kids weddings, or recently, you can't even baptize them or officiate in any way if you are not up to code. So your very actions in church let everyone know that you are paid up.
Anne Rmoney was right, it will just give us ammunition........
Anne Rmoney was right, it will just give us ammunition........
7
@6
The Mormon church might know how much he donated, but that's not evidence that he tithed, that is, paid 10% of his income. Disclosing his returns would make it possible to figure that out.
Anyway, here's the speculation that Reid was getting at Romney shortchanging the church.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/08/01/ha…
The Mormon church might know how much he donated, but that's not evidence that he tithed, that is, paid 10% of his income. Disclosing his returns would make it possible to figure that out.
Anyway, here's the speculation that Reid was getting at Romney shortchanging the church.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/08/01/ha…
8
Would love to see Mitt linked to the "I'm a Mormon' Ad blast last year, and the anti-gay monies poured into Ca. But would think that would be buried in the LDS taxes.
Would have to say, that if that argument would fly anywhere, it would be Parade readers. I think his campaign knows the issue won't go away, and this is an attempt to shore up his base.
Would have to say, that if that argument would fly anywhere, it would be Parade readers. I think his campaign knows the issue won't go away, and this is an attempt to shore up his base.
9
"It’s a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church."..and the IRS.
Yep, real personal.
Yep, real personal.
10
Nice going Romney, this plus Gawker's records dump pretty much guarantees the sunday morning political hacks shows will be discussing your finances AND your religion on the eve of your nomination convention.
11
It's been said here on Slog before, but I can't help myself...
... I can't WAIT for the debates!!!!!1
... I can't WAIT for the debates!!!!!1
12
@7 Interesting theory, but from the one full year he has shown it was around 10% (4m) to the LDS. Could be the previous years show different. I'm still leaning to what 2 said as being the only reason his father was mentioned.
15
@14 Normally I'd agree with you that this type of thing is a tangential issue. Except that in this case it has been going on since last fall, because of that fact it is indeed germane to Romney's ability to be President.
A world class politician would have put this to bed months ago. It is a game of beanbag and Romney can't handle it.
A world class politician would have put this to bed months ago. It is a game of beanbag and Romney can't handle it.
16
So when Romney said "It’s a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church." by "our God" he meant the Mormon God, not the Christian God, who doesn't seem to have objected to such disclosure?
17
i truly do not want a man who believes in mormonism to be president. i think it disqualifies you on a very basic level. yes, xtianity is just as bad, blah blah, but most xtian pols (like obama) are just going through the motions.
if you believe that shit, you're disqualified.
if you believe that shit, you're disqualified.
18
@17: "[N]o religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." - The Constitution of the United States of America, Article VI, paragraph 3.
Don't like it? Find another country that meets your standards. (Or of course, try to change it...and put yourself on the side of dickheads like Michelle Bachmann and George HW Bush. Have fun with that.)
Don't like it? Find another country that meets your standards. (Or of course, try to change it...and put yourself on the side of dickheads like Michelle Bachmann and George HW Bush. Have fun with that.)
19
@18: tell that to the 46% of Americans who say they would never vote for an atheist for president.
Last time I checked, it wasn't illegal for voters to discriminate against anyone for any reason while in the voting booth.
Last time I checked, it wasn't illegal for voters to discriminate against anyone for any reason while in the voting booth.
20
I've said all along that the reason he won't release the returns is he is afraid the church will find out he hasn't paid the full 10% MANDATORY tithe demanded by the church.
With him being a big muckety muck bishop or SSLT, this would be devastating - worse than the American Public finding out he cheated on his taxes or parked his money offshore to avoid paying taxes.
With him being a big muckety muck bishop or SSLT, this would be devastating - worse than the American Public finding out he cheated on his taxes or parked his money offshore to avoid paying taxes.
21
@19: Yes, hence the GHW Bush mention (who at one point claimed he'd never appoint an atheist to Federal office because "this is one nation under God.") He was just as wrong, and he got dopeslapped for it.
And no, a citizen's vote is entirely between him/her and their conscience. But if that vote is decided by the candidate's religion, as opposed to their past actions and voting record, it's a vote based on prejudice.
We've had four years of the right wing trying to delegitimatize the current President based on spurious religious grounds - which under the Constitution STILL DO NOT MEAN A DAMN - and you somehow seem to think this is a good thing when it's on YOUR side?
And no, a citizen's vote is entirely between him/her and their conscience. But if that vote is decided by the candidate's religion, as opposed to their past actions and voting record, it's a vote based on prejudice.
We've had four years of the right wing trying to delegitimatize the current President based on spurious religious grounds - which under the Constitution STILL DO NOT MEAN A DAMN - and you somehow seem to think this is a good thing when it's on YOUR side?
22
the only private thing about mormon tithing is that it reveals how much money you make. If you are tithing, you are giving 10% of your income and people can figure out how much you make. It makes sense for Joe Plumber to keep that private... but we already know how much Romney makes each year.. he's RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. So (surprise!) he is full of shit in this interview.
23
Don't forget, Romney himself was a bishop in the LDS church, people handed their contributions directly to him. He had an enormous amount of responsibility, which I assume included impressing the importance of accurate and complete tithing upon those who reported to him.
If it turns out he wasn't tithing correctly/completely, there could be hell to pay...though wouldn't his God know about this and push him out of the top level of the Celestial Kingdom into one of the lower levels...or even, gasp, into the Terrestrial Kingdom?
Pro tip: If you don't want your religion brought into it, don't bring your religion into it.
Also and again, Romney's had *years* to figure this tax return crap out, why hasn't he come up with an answer?
If it turns out he wasn't tithing correctly/completely, there could be hell to pay...though wouldn't his God know about this and push him out of the top level of the Celestial Kingdom into one of the lower levels...or even, gasp, into the Terrestrial Kingdom?
Pro tip: If you don't want your religion brought into it, don't bring your religion into it.
Also and again, Romney's had *years* to figure this tax return crap out, why hasn't he come up with an answer?
24
I think he doesn't want the American public to know how much money he has given the Mormon Church. Millions and millions of dollars, I'd bet. Took a tax deduction for it and lowered his taxes. And he is just one multi-millionaire -- there are others in the church. Just how much money does the church get, tax free, every year? The spotlight is going in a direction he doesn't want.
25
@18, 21:
my opinion is that people who actually believe in an abrahamic religions are not intelligent enough to govern. however, i also will not vote for willard based on his past actions, voting record, and the -R after his name. if that makes me predjudiced in your eyes, i do not give a fuck. i've got a lot of predjudices: against jet skiers, NRA members, bear hunters, harley riders, fox newscasters, ignorant conservatives, etc.
i am not trying to delegitimize willard on spurious grounds: he doesn't just sit in the pews to look good - he actually is a mormon bishop. he believes. and that religion is fucking absurd & misogynist, even more so than xtianity, because it's young enough that it can be disproved.
my opinion is that people who actually believe in an abrahamic religions are not intelligent enough to govern. however, i also will not vote for willard based on his past actions, voting record, and the -R after his name. if that makes me predjudiced in your eyes, i do not give a fuck. i've got a lot of predjudices: against jet skiers, NRA members, bear hunters, harley riders, fox newscasters, ignorant conservatives, etc.
i am not trying to delegitimize willard on spurious grounds: he doesn't just sit in the pews to look good - he actually is a mormon bishop. he believes. and that religion is fucking absurd & misogynist, even more so than xtianity, because it's young enough that it can be disproved.
27
@26,
Jobs?
The way repubs keep talking, it seems people only care about outlawing all abortions.
Right?
Jobs?
The way repubs keep talking, it seems people only care about outlawing all abortions.
Right?
28
Obama has created about 150,000 private sector jobs each month for the past year in the US.
Romney creates tax shelter jobs in Switzerland, the Cayman Islands, and for his China and India masters.
Fact.
Romney creates tax shelter jobs in Switzerland, the Cayman Islands, and for his China and India masters.
Fact.
30
It's simple super-rich guy: don't claim a tax deduction for your contributions to a corrupt institution that shouldn't have tax exempt status in the first place. Problem solved.
31
@20 and others - doesn't the mormon church already require its members to submit documentation of their income for tithing purpose?
35
Gay Dude for Romney,
I kinda liked @14
But 32's lame
First one to write a response as a sonnet wins!
I kinda liked @14
But 32's lame
First one to write a response as a sonnet wins!
36
I'm hardly the only one to notice that American presidents have been trending towards two-terms each in the last half century.
I personally think this is a good thing, as four-years is not enough time to really have the fruits of your labors show.
Many other nations have mandates that are 6 or 7 years long. When Francois Mitterand was a two-term president, he ruled France for a total of 14 years.
So I think on the basis of doing good work and actually seeing the results, Obama should get the seat for four more years. And that is likely what is going to happen, IMHO. Romney's a twit, and unless the R's can pull some seriously illegal shit to steal votes like they did with W (twice), then I think that Obama's campaign will pull it out in the end.
I personally think this is a good thing, as four-years is not enough time to really have the fruits of your labors show.
Many other nations have mandates that are 6 or 7 years long. When Francois Mitterand was a two-term president, he ruled France for a total of 14 years.
So I think on the basis of doing good work and actually seeing the results, Obama should get the seat for four more years. And that is likely what is going to happen, IMHO. Romney's a twit, and unless the R's can pull some seriously illegal shit to steal votes like they did with W (twice), then I think that Obama's campaign will pull it out in the end.
37
@36. Totally agree.
Hopefully the majority of voters agree and get out there, even if they have to fight to get out there (which is tragic and conspicuous, not that anyone doing it seems to care).
Hopefully the majority of voters agree and get out there, even if they have to fight to get out there (which is tragic and conspicuous, not that anyone doing it seems to care).
38
@1 Yep, that was my thought. He hasn't properly tithed to LDS and doesn't want that known, as it would be shaming. Huh.
39
@21- I'm prejudiced against ignorance, bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and hate, so I won't vote for a Mormon and would be much more likely to vote for an atheist if one was available.
So call my a bigot or whatever, I'm cool with that. All religions are frauds, and Mormonism is one of the most transparently so. It's followers are either rubes or (like Mitt) con artists and the top of the pyramid, and neither of those kinds of people should be president.
So call my a bigot or whatever, I'm cool with that. All religions are frauds, and Mormonism is one of the most transparently so. It's followers are either rubes or (like Mitt) con artists and the top of the pyramid, and neither of those kinds of people should be president.
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