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Friday, August 17, 2012

Crime / Music / News Russian Judge Sentences Pussy Riot to 2-Year Term

Posted by Goldy on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 7:48 AM

A Moscow judge sentenced three members of the Russian punk rock band Pussy Riot to two years in prison for an anti-Putin stunt performed at a Russian Orthodox cathedral. Yet another reminder that a lot of countries have guns, but what really makes the United States special is the First Amendment.

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bong hits for jesus

Posted by peskypoop on August 17, 2012 at 7:52 AM

"Yet another reminder that a lot of countries have guns"

In America, I can bring 10 of my friends, storm the offices of the Stranger, squat in the middle of the office and refuse to leave. If im arrested, I can request a jury trial and have a good chance of being cleared of all trespassing charges by citing first amended rights to protest any liberal organization.

Posted by Kinison

on August 17, 2012 at 7:54 AM

yeah the US never throws people in jail for 2 years for no reason

nope never happened

goldy i expect better.

Posted by Swearengen on August 17, 2012 at 8:05 AM

What #3 said

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on August 17, 2012 at 8:08 AM

@2 I'm not sure exactly why those occupy protestors who refused to leave the Chase Bank lobby were found not guilty of trespassing. However, the bank was open to the public, whereas the offices of The Stranger are not, so it's not quite the same situation.

Posted by Ken Mehlman on August 17, 2012 at 8:11 AM

@5 Being arrested and having to go through a trial is pretty much punishment enough for a minor, though annoying, crime such as that. At least that seems to be how many juries see it.

The punks that smashed up downtown though will likely not be so lucky once their asses are arrested. I doubt they'd get two years, but they'll get convicted barring evidence or other problems.

Lot less sympathy for violence than protest.

Posted by giffy on August 17, 2012 at 8:17 AM

Two years? That's less than I thought they'd get. Judging from the comments of their persecutors, I thought they'd get nothing less than a burning at the stake.

Posted by --MC on August 17, 2012 at 8:22 AM

@3 I'm not saying our First Amendment rights are never violated. But at least we have them. And that creates a far different environment for journalists, artists, academics, activists, etc. than exists in most of the rest of the world.

Posted by Goldy on August 17, 2012 at 8:25 AM

I don't see that big of a difference between being told you have rights and then watching them get violated (legally and otherwise) and never being told you have rights and then getting treated like shit.

The net result is the same thing: you'll get disenfranchised if you piss off the wrong people.

And hey, I don't really know shit about Russia, but they seem to at least pretend they have a lot of rights too:

http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-0…

Posted by Swearengen on August 17, 2012 at 8:45 AM

@9 If you don't see a difference between the US and Russia you are an idiot.

Posted by giffy on August 17, 2012 at 8:48 AM

Russia is a terribly unfree place - they are #5 in the world in prisoners per capita!

Meanwhile, the United States is wonderful and free, we're only #1 in the world in prisoners per capita, and nobody's even close. Free free free!

Posted by raku on August 17, 2012 at 9:13 AM

This is a stupid cycle that needs to die w/ the Babyboomers. People deliberately protest to get arrested to make a point, circus trial ensues, they spend a bit of time in the pokey for posterity. The media outnumbers the protesters and The Man by about 100:1. And you turn right over to the TV page.

Posted by WenWino on August 17, 2012 at 9:23 AM

Sure, the U.S. has far too many people in prison, for many of the wrong reasons. But how many of them are there for saying the wrong thing about the government?

America gets a lot of things wrong, but we do free speech pretty fucking well.

Posted by bleedingheartlibertarian on August 17, 2012 at 9:35 AM

The only thing America does "fucking well" is that we protect hate speech. It's so bizarre that Americans think that's a virtue.

Meanwhile, we jailed or assaulted literally hundreds of people in Seattle for nonviolent free speech in the past 15 years. We could learn a lot from Canada or Mexico about protecting free speech. In Mexico City, they don't regulate nonviolent protests - at all. No free speech zones, no permits, no assaults for being in the street, no jailing people for being on the wrong block, no tear gas, no rubber bullets - none of which are hallmarks of doing free speech well.

Posted by raku on August 17, 2012 at 9:57 AM

Yup, that's why Bradley Manning is a free man today. Let's all spend time making villains of a government we cannot influence instead of freeing activists here at home.

Posted by TValley on August 17, 2012 at 9:59 AM

@13: Americans won't wind up in jail protesting the government so long as we adhere to the "free speech zones".

Posted by DOUG.

on August 17, 2012 at 10:08 AM

but what really makes the United States special is the First Amendment.

That, and we have God in our Pledge of Allegiance!

Posted by Zebes

on August 17, 2012 at 10:48 AM

raku ftw @14 - freedom is dead in America.

Posted by Will in Seattle

on August 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM

@10 yes that is exactly what I said. Don't try to troll a troll.

Posted by Swearengen on August 17, 2012 at 11:06 AM

@14 No we haven't. Free speech has never ever ever entailed the right to do things like block movement, trespass(except for very limited cases), or camp in parks. Never. Nor should it.

You don't get to force people to listen to you.

Posted by giffy on August 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Have you touched base with Madonna and Sting on this. Don't be tardy to the party.

Posted by biffp on August 17, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Let's boycott Russian tourism. I'm sure if I had money I wouldn't spend it in Russia. Sigh.

Posted by Pope Peabrain on August 17, 2012 at 1:44 PM

@20: Giffy wrote, "Free speech has never ever ever entailed the right to do things like [...] camp in parks. Never." Giffy, you are incorrect. See Real Change et al v. City of Seattle et …, particularly the emergency motion for injunction (PDF; qu… filed April 19, 2012, and the temporary restraining order issued (PDF) by the court four days later.

Quoting pp 12-13 of the aforementioned motion:

Tents and structures are well-established as viable instruments of political speech, and maintaining tents and temporary structures continuously have acknowledged speech value. See, e.g., Clark v. Community for Creative Non-Violence, 468 U.S. 288 (1984); Students Against Apartheid Coalition v. O’Neil, 660 F.Supp. 333 (W.D. Va. 1987); ACORN v. City of Tulsa, 835 F.2d 735, 742 (10th Cir. 1987) (recognizing speech value of symbolic structures in parks); University of Utah Students Against Apartheid v. Peterson, 649 S. Supp. 1200, 1204-1205 (D. Utah 1986) (students maintained continuous presence with shanties over many months, enhancing their expressive character). Two federal district courts have recently held that “tenting and sleeping” in a public park as part of a political demonstration unquestionably is expressive conduct implicating the protections of the First Amendment. Occupy Minneapolis v. County of Hennepin, ____ F. Supp. 2d ___, 2011 WL 5878359, *4 (D. Minn. 2011) (sleeping and overnight occupation of tents in a park was expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment, though it could be regulated by a permit scheme that functioned as a valid time place and manner restriction); Occupy Fort Myers v. City of Fort Myers, ____ F. Supp. 2d ___, 2011 WL 5554034, *5 (M.D. Florida 2011) (same).

Assertions by both Plaintiffs and an agent of Defendants show that the presence of tents and overnight presence are expressive conduct. Plaintiffs discuss the importance of tents and overnight presence to protesting homelessness, Dec. of Harris at para. 6, Dec. of Morrow at para. as well as the tradition of continuous overnight political assembly and the use of tents as speech, citing examples from around the world as far as 1932, Dec. of Harris at para. 7-14.

Defendants, through one of their speaking agents, agree: tents are speech. Mr. Brock Milliern, currently Acting Manager of Stewardship and Sustainability for Seattle Parks and Recreation. Exhibit 5 to Dec. of Pence at pg. 2, ln. 1-2. He gave an interview in the course of the criminal prosecution of an Occupy Seattle protester, charged in relation to the use of tent in Westlake in October. Dec of Pence at para. 8.

Trieweiler: Okay. Do the tents themselves seem like a form of political expression to you?
Milliern: Not at first.
Trieweiler: At some point?
Milliern: Yeah.
Trieweiler: When?
Milliern: I don't know when my opinion changed about hat [sic].

Exhibit 5 to Dec. of Pence at p. 85, ln. 17-22 and pg. 86, ln. 1. A few questions later, Mr. Trieweiler followed up as to why Mr. Milliern concluded that the tents themselves were expressive:

Trieweiler: What made you come to that conclusion or that opinion [that tents are speech]?
Milliern: I feel like at some point the protesters, Occupy Seattle changed and really made the tents a focus of their protest and that, you know, taking the park with the tents became a focus of the protest.

More...

Posted by Phil M

on August 17, 2012 at 2:06 PM

Let me brush you up on Russian firearms law:
http://www.gunlab.com.ru/summary.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_la…

"According to Russia's gun laws, Russian citizens can buy smoothbore shotguns, such as, for example Saiga 12, gas pistols, or revolvers shooting rubber bullets. Safe use of one of the above weapons for five years allows purchase of a rifle or carbine."

The 1st amendment exist because of the 2nd.

Posted by Cascadian Bacon on August 17, 2012 at 4:48 PM

People who claim there are no free speech rights in America without realizing they are criticizing America while suffering no consequences are perhaps the stupidest people on the planet.

Posted by Theodore Gorath on August 20, 2012 at 10:06 AM