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News & ArtsMonday, August 13, 2012
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Even Less Kinky Than Plain Vanilla
Posted by Tristan Taormino on Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 1:20 PM
Tristan Taormino is an award-winning writer, sex educator, speaker, feminist pornographer, and radio host. She is the editor of 25 anthologies and author of seven books, including The Ultimate Guide to Kink and Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships. She lectures at top colleges and universities throughout the world. She is the host of Sex Out Loud, a weekly radio show on the VoiceAmerica Talk Radio Network. Her NSFW website is PuckerUp.com and you can follow her on Twitter @TristanTaormino.
Dear Dan,
I’ve never written in before, but I’m kind of at a loss. My boyfriend now, well, I’ve never felt the way I do about him about anyone else. I’m 27 and we’ve been together for a year and a half. I know you’ll say I’m young, but I’ve never really been in a serious relationship before or liked anyone this much. I hardly ever find anyone attractive (really, almost never. And to be attracted to someone physically and mentally—this might be the first). Anyway, even when I did find someone attractive, I never felt like committing to anyone, and relationships never lasted long. But I can’t imagine life without this guy.
As you can guess, there’s a problem coming up. The guy is totally vanilla. Or, I don’t know, what’s less than vanilla… unflavored gelatin maybe? I’m not even that kinky, but It seems almost every time I’ve brought up something even the slightest bit kinky, he’s acted aversely, scoffed, or said no to the idea. He’s not very open about sex, has claimed he doesn’t know what his turn ons are (and also seems incredulous that I don’t believe it), is quiet as a mouse during sex even though I’ve asked him to be more vocal, and is not open to role-playing. Power play and rape scenes are a total NO for him. We had a talk in which he finally came around to being a little more aggressive (no rough sex, mind you) during sex, though saying he doesn’t want to because I don’t like being touched. (To be fair, I can be kind of picky about how I’m touched.) Sometimes he’s good. He won’t go into sex stores, but is open to vibrators and the more vanilla toys. He’s done some spanking.
The rest of the question, and my response, after the jump...
He also somehow acts like sex is my problem and that he’s totally open. He used an example in which he had sex outside with a girlfriend right outside her parents’ bedroom window and claimed it was something he could never do with me because I don’t like being outside and wouldn’t want to have sex with the risk of being caught. When I asked him if it was something he wanted to do, he said no, and couldn’t come up with anything he actually wanted to do!
He claims he used to read your column (over 10 years ago). Although I’ve asked him to, he doesn’t want to start reading it again. I want him to so that he thinks more about turn ons and kinks and just has a generally more open mind frame about sex, talking about sex, and being GGG. (He claims to know what GGG means, but I don’t think he gets the “game” part… at least not in spirit.) He’s open to books though, which is my first question. Do you have any recommended reading for this sort of thing?
My second question is more serious. I know you say sexual incompatibility is break-up territory, but I’m not willing to go there. I’m not that kinky, and I’m willing to settle for kinky sex only once in a while… as long as it actually happens. I really love this guy, but is there hope? Do you have any suggestions to bringing him around a little more? Short and direct not being an option… he never reacts well to that. But maybe a way to gradually introduce him to things or to get him to be more open to ideas?
Please help!
Wants a More Interesting Sex Life
Dear Wants a More Interesting Sex Life:
It seems to me that your boyfriend is very good at deflecting his own discomfort about sex onto you rather than dealing with the issues you raise directly. He also likes to avoid your direct questions by shaming you: you don’t like being touched (by the way, most people are picky about how they like to be touched), you won’t have sex outside, you’re kinky. Like you, I have trouble believing that someone doesn’t know what his sexual fantasies are, but some people are so disconnected from their sexuality that they really cannot access their wants, desires, and needs. He sounds pretty shut down around sex. Another option is that he does know, but is so ashamed of his desires that he can’t talk about them. Either way, short of a non-consensual interrogation scene, you can’t make him talk. You’re doing a lot of emotional work and seem ready to compromise, but I’d like to see him to do both, too. It’s difficult for people to change, and impossible if they don’t want to, and your boyfriend doesn’t seem to want to change. I’m not sure there are any books that can help this problem, although reading some good erotic fiction like Sweet Confessions: Erotic Fantasies for Couples edited by Violet Blue or watching porn movies together may help your boyfriend get in touch with his sexuality and help him articulate what he wants. Arousal: The Secret Logic of Sexual Fantasies by Michael Bader is a good resource for letting go of shame and getting in touch with fantasies. I think that some couples’ therapy could really help open up a dialogue—if your guy is willing to dig into the process, figure out what’s behind his issues, and meet you at least halfway. Otherwise, I think you will continue to be unsatisfied with your sex life.
2
So she's an extremely picky woman that doesn't like to be touched and he's a melodramatic sexually shut out male. Looks like they're made for one another.
Seriously, both of these people sound like complete assholes.
Seriously, both of these people sound like complete assholes.
3
She doesn't want to be touched but she's asking for rape role-playing? I'd be scared of getting kinky, too.
4
I suspect he might be gay and so deep in the closet that he fears anything other than the strictly unflavored hetero sex he does do is going to be a slippery slope to his secret, desperate desire to be tied up, whipped, and gang-penetrated by a bunch of huge cocks in a seedy gay dungeon.
Or maybe, unflavored gelatin IS what turns him on, but he's so accustomed to thinking of "desires" and "fantasies" as weird things that he doesn't properly communicate that it is, in fact, his fantasy.
Or maybe Tristan is right and he's just repressed. Anyway, she's right that people who don't want to change don't change, so the question becomes: either settle for boring sex for the rest of your life as the price of admission for being with this guy, or dump him. There are no optimal solutions here - your dream of adjusting this guy to be kinky enough to make him perfect for you ain't gonna happen, so you need to let it go and give up either the one thing or the other.
Or maybe, unflavored gelatin IS what turns him on, but he's so accustomed to thinking of "desires" and "fantasies" as weird things that he doesn't properly communicate that it is, in fact, his fantasy.
Or maybe Tristan is right and he's just repressed. Anyway, she's right that people who don't want to change don't change, so the question becomes: either settle for boring sex for the rest of your life as the price of admission for being with this guy, or dump him. There are no optimal solutions here - your dream of adjusting this guy to be kinky enough to make him perfect for you ain't gonna happen, so you need to let it go and give up either the one thing or the other.
5
Some sexually repressed people can blossom with the right kind of encouragement. I've personally witnessed a woman who's idea of sex was to just lie there evolve into a woman who, for example, dished out some generous r... never mind, too much info.
But they have to want it, or at least trust that you are taking them somewhere fun. The fact that your boyfriend is reacting defensively to your efforts tells me either he isn't ready, or he's interpreting your input (correctly or not) as criticism. You won't get anywhere with him in either case.
Sounds to me like you are committed to this guy out of fear that you won't find someone else you are attracted to, in which case, do both of you a favor and DTMFA.
P.S. Tristan Taormino - cool!
But they have to want it, or at least trust that you are taking them somewhere fun. The fact that your boyfriend is reacting defensively to your efforts tells me either he isn't ready, or he's interpreting your input (correctly or not) as criticism. You won't get anywhere with him in either case.
Sounds to me like you are committed to this guy out of fear that you won't find someone else you are attracted to, in which case, do both of you a favor and DTMFA.
P.S. Tristan Taormino - cool!
7
Not wanting to do rape roleplay is even more vanilla than vanilla? Really? If that's her idea of basic introductory not-even-very-kinky mild spice for vanilla, no wonder there's a problem.
9
"I'm dating a guy who looks like Channing Tatum with the mind of Paul Krugman. The only problem is that he never wants to try any interesting restaurants. I keep leaving my Food and Wine magazines around and sending him links to food blogs, but he's happy living on frozen pizza and French fries and he's totally indifferent to my attempts to spice things up in the kitchen. He told me once about eating some tasty mangoes in Mexico--that's the one fruit I can't stand--but when I asked him if he wanted me to buy some mangoes he said he didn't care. The other day he got my hopes up when he ate a Caesar salad with anchovies in the dressing, but when I asked him to try an anchovy pizza he said no."
Some people aren't sex people just like some people aren't foodies: they're happy with basic sustenance and they know there's more out there, but they just don't care about exploring that side of life. Either deal with it or DTMFA. He's not necessarily repressing the beast within, he just has different priorities from yours, and you're not going to change him.
Some people aren't sex people just like some people aren't foodies: they're happy with basic sustenance and they know there's more out there, but they just don't care about exploring that side of life. Either deal with it or DTMFA. He's not necessarily repressing the beast within, he just has different priorities from yours, and you're not going to change him.
10
Sounds like these kids need a therapist to teach them how to communicate and unpack their issues. He's repressed about something, and needs to get past that something.
Also, LW: Someone who, among kinksters, is 'not that kinky' is 'very kinky' to a vanilla or inexperienced person. So keep that in mind when you try to argue with your bf that you're not that kinky. HE'S not that kinky (that we know of), you're the kinkier person.
Also, LW: Someone who, among kinksters, is 'not that kinky' is 'very kinky' to a vanilla or inexperienced person. So keep that in mind when you try to argue with your bf that you're not that kinky. HE'S not that kinky (that we know of), you're the kinkier person.
11
The LW has taken all of her own power away from herself. Not willing to break up, not willing to confront, keeps asking for less and less, just wants SOMETHING. She won't get anything. She has to be willing to walk away if he won't work with her to deal with their issues, or she will get nowhere. And she wants to be with this guy WHY?
If he deals with all of their problems the way he deals with their sexual problems, she is going to do a lot of compromising and giving in. That is going to be the real killer in this relationship, even if the sexual incompatibility is not. Does he even care about the relationship? It doesn't sound like it. I agree with @1. DTMFA
If he deals with all of their problems the way he deals with their sexual problems, she is going to do a lot of compromising and giving in. That is going to be the real killer in this relationship, even if the sexual incompatibility is not. Does he even care about the relationship? It doesn't sound like it. I agree with @1. DTMFA
14
"I'm not getting what I need from him and a variety of perfectly reasonable attempts to communicate on the issue have failed utterly to provoke any change. I'm willing to stay with him if I get what I need! But I don't! But I'm not willing to break up with him! Even though he clearly doesn't listen to me or care about my needs! He's SO GREAT!"
Break up, WMISL. Or, if you want to try one more time before you do, give him an ultimatum, Dan-style: we're going to talk about my needs and you're going to express some goddamn interest and help me meet them, or I'm going to get them met elsewhere.
Ought to finally get his attention, at least.
Break up, WMISL. Or, if you want to try one more time before you do, give him an ultimatum, Dan-style: we're going to talk about my needs and you're going to express some goddamn interest and help me meet them, or I'm going to get them met elsewhere.
Ought to finally get his attention, at least.
16
@13 I'm thinking: "for god's sake...fucking dumb shit", but that's probably not right.
For the rest, what @7 said. The LW needs to organize her thoughts before anyone else can even suggest a solution.
For the rest, what @7 said. The LW needs to organize her thoughts before anyone else can even suggest a solution.
17
Bad sex is like a canary in a coal mine. I doubt this will be the last fight where he deflects, blames, and/or refuses to compromise. She should ask herself why she's so attached to a guy that isn't doing the emotional work, and why she's willing to commit to being unsatisfied.
DTMFA.
DTMFA.
18
Yeah if he is so great and sex isnt THAT important like your letter says... then why are you taking the time to write a sex columnist about the issue?
20
@9 When a foodie dates a non-foodie, the foodie's going to eat a LOT of meals with friends. Foodies aren't going to accept never eating a good meal again in their life. The same thing goes for sex - if a non-sexual person wants to date a sexual person, you've gotta let them screw other people. If you don't want to be bothered about sex and yet you have issues with your partner screwing around, you need to exclusively date asexuals.
23
The boyfriend might have a very low sex drive or low interest in sex.
The LW sounds weird too -- LW says "I'm not that kinky" but then brought up rape scenes as an example of role playing.
Frankly, rape scenes are not unusual but hardly "not kinky."
Plus LW is rarely attracted physically or mentally to others -- "really, almost never."
Both might only happen rarely, but most people are often attracted physically *or* mentally to others.
Given the latter, LW might want to try to stick it out or work out an open relationship -- although if LW is almost never attracted to others, then who is LW gonna fuck?
The LW sounds weird too -- LW says "I'm not that kinky" but then brought up rape scenes as an example of role playing.
Frankly, rape scenes are not unusual but hardly "not kinky."
Plus LW is rarely attracted physically or mentally to others -- "really, almost never."
Both might only happen rarely, but most people are often attracted physically *or* mentally to others.
Given the latter, LW might want to try to stick it out or work out an open relationship -- although if LW is almost never attracted to others, then who is LW gonna fuck?
25
I'm pretty GGG--I've done a lot of kinky stuff with past girlfriends because they wanted it, and I even came to enjoy it--but that whole incredulous reaction I get from kinky people when I tell them that I really don't care about doing anything beyond vanilla sex pisses me off. Not everyone has sublimated their weird-ass childhood traumas into sexual gratification separate from the actual act of coitus, you smug fuckers.
26
Dan's answer was spot on. I was married to someone exactly like this for decades. He shamed me about all of my desires. I tried talking. I tried books. According to my ex, I was much more sexual than him; therefore, I went without because he wasn't interested. He told me he wasn't comfortable knowing what I liked and so I never asked for anything other than frequency and desire. All of my advances were deflected until I stopped asking.
It turns out he knew exactly what turned him on. Other women. Other men. Anonymous hookups. Looking through the neighbor's windows. He potentially exposed me to everything as he refused to ever wear condoms and birth control was up to me. He shamed me into wasting my life on him, believing it was my problem.
DTMFA!!
It turns out he knew exactly what turned him on. Other women. Other men. Anonymous hookups. Looking through the neighbor's windows. He potentially exposed me to everything as he refused to ever wear condoms and birth control was up to me. He shamed me into wasting my life on him, believing it was my problem.
DTMFA!!
27
Sounds like there are issues on both sides. The writer seems pretty focused on what her boyfriend doesn't like while glossing over what she won't do, so couples therapy seems like a good idea. I'd say maybe try watching some imaginative porn together (if he's that into you, seeing you get turned on by certain scenes will definitely turn him on - if not, seems like a red flag), try rewarding him (with oral or whatever) for doing things you like, and mixing it up in ways he won't find threatening like stripping for him. Spanking and vanilla toys isn't a lot to start with, but it's something, so I wouldn't DTMFA just yet.
28
@11. Good point about giving away your power, but that doesn't mean the only alternative is DTMFA. @25, haha! Awesome.
29
@27 "try rewarding him (with oral or whatever) for doing things you like"
Good advice, if he's willing to admit that he likes sex at all. Right now, it sounds like he sees sex as a favor he does for the LW. ("[he] couldn’t come up with anything he actually wanted to do!") If the LW and her guy do have fun sex together, that would change my understanding of the situation.
@Tristan "(by the way, most people are picky about how they like to be touched)"
I think this would be worth pushing on a bit more. It's probably a bell-curve, right, where some people are really easy-going, most people like some normal amount of touch and pressure, and some people are really difficult to touch.
I dated someone briefly who was always complaining that touch made him feel ticklish. I could touch his penis, but pretty much anywhere else was off-bounds because it didn't feel good to him. If all touch feels like being tickled... that's going to be a big problem for most potential partners. So I'm curious what the LW means when she says "I can be kind of picky about how I’m touched."
Good advice, if he's willing to admit that he likes sex at all. Right now, it sounds like he sees sex as a favor he does for the LW. ("[he] couldn’t come up with anything he actually wanted to do!") If the LW and her guy do have fun sex together, that would change my understanding of the situation.
@Tristan "(by the way, most people are picky about how they like to be touched)"
I think this would be worth pushing on a bit more. It's probably a bell-curve, right, where some people are really easy-going, most people like some normal amount of touch and pressure, and some people are really difficult to touch.
I dated someone briefly who was always complaining that touch made him feel ticklish. I could touch his penis, but pretty much anywhere else was off-bounds because it didn't feel good to him. If all touch feels like being tickled... that's going to be a big problem for most potential partners. So I'm curious what the LW means when she says "I can be kind of picky about how I’m touched."
30
I am shaking my head in confusion at this letter. I consider myself to being fairly open (albiet slightly shy) about sex & slightly kinky. But I wouldn't be comfortable going into a sex shop either & don't use toys. (WTF is a vanilla sex toy, anyway? Sounds like a total contradiction in terms!).
You lady, are quite kinky & he is not. Ask yourself if this is a deal-breaker for you, or not. If he's the same age as you, the chances that he will change into someone much kinkier, is fairly unlikely, in my opinion. So you have to decide whether your love for him, is more important than more kinky sex.
You lady, are quite kinky & he is not. Ask yourself if this is a deal-breaker for you, or not. If he's the same age as you, the chances that he will change into someone much kinkier, is fairly unlikely, in my opinion. So you have to decide whether your love for him, is more important than more kinky sex.
31
@25, yo, man, I have had the reaction you get, too, because a lot of kink is not just my thing.
You ain't gotta be uncool about it, though. If you think about it for a minute, doesn't it seem like a bit of a dick move to trivialize both child sex abuse and consenting adult relationships just to vent about some awkward moments?
You ain't gotta be uncool about it, though. If you think about it for a minute, doesn't it seem like a bit of a dick move to trivialize both child sex abuse and consenting adult relationships just to vent about some awkward moments?
34
@20, being sexually vanilla usually also means not wanting to open up the relationship. Even if it didn't, it's still going to be hard for them to have a romantic relationship if they're so sexually incompatible. Even if the foodie eats five meals a week with foodie friends, he and his spouse the picky eater are still going to have the great majority of their meals together--when they're traveling, when they're sick, on holidays--and it's always going to be hard for them to reconcile their preferences. Same thing for LW and her plain-gelatin boyfriend. Her coming onto a kink forum and asking people to condemn him and give her tips on how to change him is not going to work any better than his attempt to shut her down by judging and shaming her for what she wants. He may be the shiniest love-object ever, but he's never going to make her happy, and vice-versa.
35
Slut-shaming has ended many a relationship, LW, and it may just end yours. First, figure out what YOU can tolerate. What are your limits and priorities? Are you coming up with kinky ideas just to test HIS limits? Do you know your own? If you do, write them down and be as specific as possible. Second, find out his firm limits and priorities by framing them in sex-positive ways: toys? On or off the table? Power play? On or off the table and in what manner(s)? Once you have gotten clear about that stuff, find out where you intersect. If you don't intersect at all, you have nothing to work with. If you do, figure out how to deepen what you actually have. But be specific with YOURSELF first!
36
Her BF sounds somewhat similar to a GF I had. Disconnected from sexuality, couldn't name turn-ons, etc. Things became clear a couple years later when she came out of the closet. Just sayin.
37
OK, a meme from 4chan.
4chan...I assume that's up there with cosplay manga robot hentai shit. Amirite?
4chan...I assume that's up there with cosplay manga robot hentai shit. Amirite?
39
Sweetheart, you may love him, but if he makes you not love you that's bad news. I am married to a mirror image of your BF. He didn't used to be like this, but evolved (devolved?) into it over time, and it's killing me. It's not healthy for you to feel so ashamed of your perfectly natural wants (role playing, some toys, power games, are all well within normal kink range!), and it's REALLY rude of him to have the audacity to project his insecurities onto you.
You can try the counselling, but there's no guarantee it'll get better. But if you really like the guy, try it before DTMFA.
My final caution: how long before he starts projecting his unhappiness and shame onto you in more ways than just sex? It's a slippery slope...
You can try the counselling, but there's no guarantee it'll get better. But if you really like the guy, try it before DTMFA.
My final caution: how long before he starts projecting his unhappiness and shame onto you in more ways than just sex? It's a slippery slope...
40
@30 Examples of vanilla sextoys: dildos, vibrators, blindfolds, fluff-cuffs, feather ticklers and all that other stuff sexstores only sell so that vanilla people can tell themselves they're interesting in bed.
@23 "not that kinky" doesn't mean "not kinky at all" and rapeplay scenarios vary a lot in how tough/extreme they are, the mildest being not really that kinky.
@23 "not that kinky" doesn't mean "not kinky at all" and rapeplay scenarios vary a lot in how tough/extreme they are, the mildest being not really that kinky.
41
My dear, I had some flashbacks into the most horrible relationship of my life while reading your letter. Horrible because I was dealing with a person who had actually no genuine capacity to deal with his own stuff. There were very understandable reasons for this (tons of horrific childhood trauma), and in many aspects he was a really great guy. But it turns out I was essentially dealing with a deeply injured soul, who was incapable of dealing with direct communication and taking in any level of feedback, no matter how gentle or considerate. I was extremely patient, very understanding. I, too, had an unreasonable attachment to the guy, but all I can say is that it did not play out very well. At all. When one person does all the emotional work, it sets up a real imbalance. If everything is "your fault" at this point, when things are going "well", then any direct confrontation that unsettles him in any way will probably lead directly to Vindictive City. Look into why you feel you cannot live without this guy. Because you can. We all can. When the relationship eventually sucks you dry you will be face to face with this very question. Do yourself a favor, and ask yourself now. Perhaps you can save yourself some elective melodrama by getting to the heart of it sooner rather than later. Best wishes to you.
42
I am pretty vanilla and so is my husband, but in the beginning of our relationship, I could barely get him to touch my boobs and he wouldn't go down on me at all. It turns out his first (crazy) wife had convinced him that women just say they like their boobs touched and that she had made him feel bad about his down-there ability. Doggie-style was hard for them so that was his fault, etc. It took years to get through some of this stuff, and sometimes I've been so frustrated I wanted to just call off the sex part of our life for a while. But it's been worth it to keep opening it up. I've tried to get more creative so we both get more comfortable. So maybe lightly challenging your boyfriend is the way to get started? And don't even tell him it's a challenge?
43
Tough part about letters like this is there are hordes of men out there dreaming of meeting letterwriter, and would be quite happy to accomodate her.
Of course, she may have a little work to do on herself, but don't we all...
The answer here is pretty much the same answer high-libido spouses get when asking for the Magic Answer that will rev up the low libido spouse: sorry, this is what he is. And he is unlikely to change. Change sometimes happens, but not typically, and not easily when it does happen.
(BTW, 27 is not young. 16 is young. 27 is typically married, kids, and mortgaged-up adult, easing slowly towards middle age, which begins in your thirties. Hard to accept, I know.)
Of course, she may have a little work to do on herself, but don't we all...
The answer here is pretty much the same answer high-libido spouses get when asking for the Magic Answer that will rev up the low libido spouse: sorry, this is what he is. And he is unlikely to change. Change sometimes happens, but not typically, and not easily when it does happen.
(BTW, 27 is not young. 16 is young. 27 is typically married, kids, and mortgaged-up adult, easing slowly towards middle age, which begins in your thirties. Hard to accept, I know.)
44
Mmm...ok, so I'm a moderately kinky guy - pretty open-minded and definitely GGG. I wind up with a pretty good number of VANILLA women...and I've hung out with BDSM play friends. Like you LW, I'm pretty tame relative to the 'scene' people, but definitely way out of bounds in many respects for the vanilla women. Based on my experience, your problem has nothing to do with vanilla vs. kinky.
I've gotten hated on for saying this here before, but any level of physical intimacy and quality sex requires a degree of emotional intimacy - you don't have to fall in love with them, but you have to be willing to be naked and coming in front of them - to make yourself vulnerable and exposed.
The kinds of problems you're having with your partner are the kind that you get from someone who is seriously conflicted about being emotionally vulnerable and open to you. DTMFA.
@25 - FTW!
pps - you can have a 'rape fantasy' fulfillment with a little bit of dirty talk, and minor physical restraint folks - like, hands pinned over head.
I've gotten hated on for saying this here before, but any level of physical intimacy and quality sex requires a degree of emotional intimacy - you don't have to fall in love with them, but you have to be willing to be naked and coming in front of them - to make yourself vulnerable and exposed.
The kinds of problems you're having with your partner are the kind that you get from someone who is seriously conflicted about being emotionally vulnerable and open to you. DTMFA.
@25 - FTW!
pps - you can have a 'rape fantasy' fulfillment with a little bit of dirty talk, and minor physical restraint folks - like, hands pinned over head.
45
You're boyfried is a secret panty wearing submissive. I'd bet dollars to donuts.
How do I know? Because his responses were eerily similar to mine before my wife tied me down and beat the truth out of me.
How do I know? Because his responses were eerily similar to mine before my wife tied me down and beat the truth out of me.
46
@34 But this guy isn't just vanilla. Vanilla guys with healthy sex drives will do a WIDE variety of things to keep having sex with a pretty girl. Ask the average guy who isn't getting laid whether he'd be willing to handcuff a pretty girl and pull her hair and spank her in order to have sex with her and he would probably say "hell yes!" with no hesitation, and it wouldn't say anything about his kinkiness. So the BEST CASE scenario here is that the boyfriend has a very low sex drive and the worst case scenario is that he's a normal guy but isn't that into the girl. If he has a low sex drive the relationship needs to be opened up, and if he's not attracted to her then the relationship needs to end.
47
@34 But this guy isn't just vanilla. Vanilla guys with healthy sex drives will do a WIDE variety of things to keep having sex with a pretty girl. Ask the average guy who isn't getting laid whether he'd be willing to handcuff a pretty girl and pull her hair and spank her in order to have sex with her and he would probably say "hell yes!" with no hesitation, and it wouldn't say anything about his kinkiness. So the BEST CASE scenario here is that the boyfriend has a very low sex drive and the worst case scenario is that he's a normal guy but isn't that into the girl. If he has a low sex drive the relationship needs to be opened up, and if he's not attracted to her then the relationship needs to end.
48
Hmm, not a good match.
Mind you, while I am a big fan of Dan in general, I do get the strong feeling that there is "vanilla-shaming" in the answers. Answers start with the premise that vanilla needs to somehow be fixed. While I am gay, apart from that fact, I am about as vanilla as you can get. I have no interest in sets, costumes, props, scripts, prompters, audience, ensemble etc. I have done theater and for me, that shit belongs on a stage.
Mind you, while I am a big fan of Dan in general, I do get the strong feeling that there is "vanilla-shaming" in the answers. Answers start with the premise that vanilla needs to somehow be fixed. While I am gay, apart from that fact, I am about as vanilla as you can get. I have no interest in sets, costumes, props, scripts, prompters, audience, ensemble etc. I have done theater and for me, that shit belongs on a stage.
49
@23: "The LW sounds weird too -- LW says "I'm not that kinky" but then brought up rape scenes as an example of role playing.
Frankly, rape scenes are not unusual but hardly "not kinky." "
Not "excessively", perhaps? They're not uncommon at all.
"Plus LW is rarely attracted physically or mentally to others -- "really, almost never." "
This is bullshit, and not bullshit at the same time. Most of us are "almost never" attracted to others, however out of the thousands of people in our extended social circles, it's possible to find a person here or there that meets our criteria.
Anyway, she needs to dump him because he's not only not interested in meeting her interests/needs, but also because he's mean and nasty about it. Whether this is her perspective talking or not, this needs to end.
Frankly, rape scenes are not unusual but hardly "not kinky." "
Not "excessively", perhaps? They're not uncommon at all.
"Plus LW is rarely attracted physically or mentally to others -- "really, almost never." "
This is bullshit, and not bullshit at the same time. Most of us are "almost never" attracted to others, however out of the thousands of people in our extended social circles, it's possible to find a person here or there that meets our criteria.
Anyway, she needs to dump him because he's not only not interested in meeting her interests/needs, but also because he's mean and nasty about it. Whether this is her perspective talking or not, this needs to end.
50
@29 - I am pretty ticklish. I can't STAND the lightly-running-your-fingertips-over-the-skin thing. For many years my partner remained convinced that this is actually a very sexy thing to do, and continued doing it even though I explained (& explained & explained) that not only did it not work for me -- all it does is make me twitch, and not in a sexy way -- but it was kind of a boner-killer. (And yes, I did try to find a way to enjoy it; but apparently I couldn't.) So now he knows that touch is great, but there needs to be some pressure behind it or I don't enjoy it.
I don't know if that means I don't like to be touched, or if I'm "picky," or if I'm reasonable. I'm just putting it out there.
That said, the LW's only solution might just be to dump this guy (and he will probably breathe a huge sigh of relief when she does). According to her letter, though, she needs to look into a wider variety of ways to get what she wants, other than making demands. The commenter who mentioned giving him challenges without letting him know they are challenges was onto something, IMHO.
I don't know if that means I don't like to be touched, or if I'm "picky," or if I'm reasonable. I'm just putting it out there.
That said, the LW's only solution might just be to dump this guy (and he will probably breathe a huge sigh of relief when she does). According to her letter, though, she needs to look into a wider variety of ways to get what she wants, other than making demands. The commenter who mentioned giving him challenges without letting him know they are challenges was onto something, IMHO.
51
Don't make things more complicated here than they probably are. @9 has a point here, and the simpker explanation might be right in this case.
52
Sounds like a young me. I've always had emotional repression issues, which led to a disconnect from any type of preference--or more accurately, made it hard for me to assess my preferences.
I was also pretty closed off when it came to trying new things sex-wise, although I think my first gf did manage to get me to take some baby steps in opening myself up. Took some effort though, I think.
Took a number of years to open up more, but that was a couple years in relationships, 4-5 single, finishing college by living abroad a year, then 2-3 years in an LTR before I...sooo, long time, lots of changes. Wouldn't go back in time to recommend that anybody wait for the young me to become the current me.
I guess it wouldn't hurt the LW that much to try some suggestions and see if they get anywhere, though. My instincts say it'll have to be DTMFA in the end, though.
I was also pretty closed off when it came to trying new things sex-wise, although I think my first gf did manage to get me to take some baby steps in opening myself up. Took some effort though, I think.
Took a number of years to open up more, but that was a couple years in relationships, 4-5 single, finishing college by living abroad a year, then 2-3 years in an LTR before I...sooo, long time, lots of changes. Wouldn't go back in time to recommend that anybody wait for the young me to become the current me.
I guess it wouldn't hurt the LW that much to try some suggestions and see if they get anywhere, though. My instincts say it'll have to be DTMFA in the end, though.
53
*before I got very far.
Oh, and I should add that reading Savage Love definitely was good for giving me some perspective while I was single and trying to figure out how to fix myself a bit more. Not to mention assessing my own sexuality and trying to own it a bit more...
It's possible that the LW's guy has established definite sexual boundaries that won't change, but it sounds more like he's not really sure about them, himself (which isn't to say they're not there, but they are uncharted territory, so to speak, if I'm correct).
Oh, and I should add that reading Savage Love definitely was good for giving me some perspective while I was single and trying to figure out how to fix myself a bit more. Not to mention assessing my own sexuality and trying to own it a bit more...
It's possible that the LW's guy has established definite sexual boundaries that won't change, but it sounds more like he's not really sure about them, himself (which isn't to say they're not there, but they are uncharted territory, so to speak, if I'm correct).
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