Slog
News & ArtsThursday, August 2, 2012
2012 Mitt Romney Tells Harry Reid to "Put up or shut up" on Tax Returns
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 4:00 PM
The Huffington Post says Mitt Romney is mad as hell about Harry Reid floating rumors that Romney didn't pay taxes for a decade, and he isn't going to take it anymore.
For the first time on Thursday, Mitt Romney addressed Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's claim that Romney spent a decade not paying taxes, denying the charge and telling Fox News' Sean Hannity that it was time for the majority leader reveal the source of his information.
"Well, it's time for Harry to put up or shut up. Harry's going to have to describe who it is he spoke with because of course, that's totally and completely wrong," Romney told Hannity in a radio interview. "It's untrue, dishonest, and inaccurate. It's wrong. So I'm looking forward to have Harry reveal his sources and we'll probably find out it's the White House. Look, the Obama campaign is going to do everything in its power to try and talk about anything besides the president's record."
The problem with this is that the only person who can really put up or shut up is Romney. He says "of course" he paid taxes like it's a fact in the public record, but it's not. Right now, it's Reid's word against Romney's. Either Reid can produce someone who said they once heard Romney didn't pay taxes for a decade or Romney can produce conclusive proof that he did or did not pay taxes for a decade. Romney simply can't act like someone who's done nothing wrong when he's hiding his records from public scrutiny, and he doesn't have the moral high ground to feign outrage like this. If this becomes part of the Romney repertoire, it will backfire in a big way.
1
In simpler times, this would have ended with a dual. Perhaps Reid should consider concocting his retort for the inevitable slap from a men's Dressage glove he'll be receiving.
2
"It's Reid's word against Romney's."
Actually it's Romney's word against "a rumor that Reid heard." If Romney coughs up his taxes and it's all legit, Reid can just say "I guess the rumor was false."
Actually it's Romney's word against "a rumor that Reid heard." If Romney coughs up his taxes and it's all legit, Reid can just say "I guess the rumor was false."
3
Right. Because in Obama's America you're guilty until proven innocent and you have no right to confront your accuser.
4
What a world we live in... even after Obama has shown both forms of his birth certificate he's still subject to an assumption of guilt (why haven't we seen his academic records? WHAT IS HE HIDING??), but Romney doesn't even have to show more than one year of tax returns because "of course" there's nothing to see there, and we should all just trust his word on that. Of course.
5
I'm with Mitt on this one. He might be an asshole, and he's being stupid, but if Reid's unwilling to say who told him this, he should have kept his mouth shut. It's not a message that does us any good.
6
In everyone's America, Mitt Romney is the only person who has the information to put this rumor to rest. He's not on trial, he's running for president.
7
@3: Nothing to do with Obama; that's just the court of public opinion. Which is how we also know that Obama is an Islamic extremist, Iraq was behind 9/11, and Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990.
8
Why is Harry Reid risking further blemishes on his career, not to mention the cheapening of the stature of Senate Majority Leader, by turning the crank of the rumor mill right on the Senate floor? I mean, after all, if he did it as a guest on The View, I'd understand.
No wonder Congress's approval is even lower than Obama's.
No wonder Congress's approval is even lower than Obama's.
9
Engaging Reid like this is so stupid of Romney.
Reid need only claim he was told in confidence and has asked his source to come forward, and then gets a golden opportunity to point out Mitt is the creator of this issue and need only release the documents to resolve it.
It's like Mitt wants to get smacked around again.
Reid need only claim he was told in confidence and has asked his source to come forward, and then gets a golden opportunity to point out Mitt is the creator of this issue and need only release the documents to resolve it.
It's like Mitt wants to get smacked around again.
10
Yeah, I'm kinda with Jon Stewart, this was a dick move on Reid's part: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2…
11
@8
Reid and Biden are in a protracted foot race to Kook-ville...
@5
By that logic we must assume that Obama had firsthand knowledge of all facets of Fast & Furious from the get go and tried to cover it up and that's why he's playing the Executive Privilege card... Right?
Reid and Biden are in a protracted foot race to Kook-ville...
@5
By that logic we must assume that Obama had firsthand knowledge of all facets of Fast & Furious from the get go and tried to cover it up and that's why he's playing the Executive Privilege card... Right?
12
@8 - You mean like an interview with the huffington post? Which is where Reid actually first talked about this... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/31…
15
Romney manages to keep the focus on his tax payments (or lack thereof) by responding.
(I'm hoping that when the presidential debates come around, Obama slips in a graceful congratulations to Romney and his wife for Rafalca's success at the Olympics.)
(I'm hoping that when the presidential debates come around, Obama slips in a graceful congratulations to Romney and his wife for Rafalca's success at the Olympics.)
16
the bullshit is that a 0% tax rate is any worse than a 14% tax rate for a millionaire. I don't come close to that and pay something like a 23% rate.
17
Ok, Paul Constant.
Then open up your bedroom and prove you don't have a stash of 10,000 kiddie porn photos.
Put up or shut up.
19
YGBKM, when did you decide to be wrong all the time? There used to be a time when you wouldn't have posted some bullshit like @3, but now you're as bad as any christian claiming to be "losing rights" because LGBT are gaining theirs. You also used to be the kind of person who wouldn't slink away from posts like the Arkansas police thread - but then again, you never admitted that you think some people's lives are more valuable than others before.
It's sad to see that you really are just another wingnut. I'm starting to wonder if it's at all possible to be conservative AND respectful of others' rights as human beings. The two seem to be entirely exclusive.
It's sad to see that you really are just another wingnut. I'm starting to wonder if it's at all possible to be conservative AND respectful of others' rights as human beings. The two seem to be entirely exclusive.
20
I seriously doubt Romney paid zero taxes for ten years. However it is very very likely that thanks to completely legal tax loopholes he managed to drive his effective tax rate down under 10% for many years, and even under 5% for a few.
Releasing his returns would shift the entire tax debate away from the preferred Republican/Norquest narrative of tax-cuts, tax-cuts, the solution to all our problems is tax-cuts. To one where we are all talking about the need to close corporate tax loopholes. Perhaps even to the point where we start talking about whether it even makes sense anymore to rely on income taxes as the prime source of government revenue when the real wealth of this nation is in the movement of capital.
That is why Romney is sitting on his tax returns. Income no longer drives wealth in this country, the movement of capital does. Releasing his returns would throw that into stark relief.
The problem with taxes in this country is we are taxing where the money is not. Romney knows this, he built his fortune off it, his tax returns would show it. He is afraid very afraid.
Releasing his returns would shift the entire tax debate away from the preferred Republican/Norquest narrative of tax-cuts, tax-cuts, the solution to all our problems is tax-cuts. To one where we are all talking about the need to close corporate tax loopholes. Perhaps even to the point where we start talking about whether it even makes sense anymore to rely on income taxes as the prime source of government revenue when the real wealth of this nation is in the movement of capital.
That is why Romney is sitting on his tax returns. Income no longer drives wealth in this country, the movement of capital does. Releasing his returns would throw that into stark relief.
The problem with taxes in this country is we are taxing where the money is not. Romney knows this, he built his fortune off it, his tax returns would show it. He is afraid very afraid.
24
To all you "I hate Mitt, but this was a low blow":
Fuck that. I'm all for civility in politics too, but the Republicans prove time and again that they'll sink ever lower in order to win votes. What Reid did is child's play compared to what Republicans have done and are willing to do in the future.
Fuck that. I'm all for civility in politics too, but the Republicans prove time and again that they'll sink ever lower in order to win votes. What Reid did is child's play compared to what Republicans have done and are willing to do in the future.
25
It's a dick move.
But it's also a shrewd political maneuver.
Romney is, again, talking about his taxes.
Romney is, again, refusing to release his tax information.
The Democrats are successfully casting Romney as a rich guy who is hiding something in his tax history that would hurt his campaign.
And Romney keeps falling for it.
But it's also a shrewd political maneuver.
Romney is, again, talking about his taxes.
Romney is, again, refusing to release his tax information.
The Democrats are successfully casting Romney as a rich guy who is hiding something in his tax history that would hurt his campaign.
And Romney keeps falling for it.
26
And now CNN is confirming the story:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/02…
Where are your tax returns, Mitt?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/02…
Where are your tax returns, Mitt?
27
Here's my theory: Mittens did pay some taxes. But he paid more to the LDS Church in tithing than he did to the government in taxes. When the left sees this proof, they're going to get angry about it. When the right sees this proof, they're also going to get angry, because Mittens was paying out to the 'wrong' kind of Christians.
28
Romney is not afraid. This just solidifies his base, and they don't care what taxes he paid or didn't pay. They don't care what he does because they hate Obama, and Romney is running against Obama.
31
@20 Romney did not pay zero taxes for those 10 years. He paid taxes. They just weren't U.S. taxes. He paid taxes to at least three other countries and he used those to claim the foreign tax credit which reduced his U.S. federal obligations to, um... pretty much nothing.
32
Consider, if you will, my theory:
Mitt Romney knows he's got a snowball's chance in hell of winning this election. His tax returns show that he has obscene amounts of money and pays a lower tax rate than the average jizzmopper. If he releases his returns, he's still not going to win the election; but the shock of a real look at a gazillionaire's tax returns could be the catalyst for real tax reform, the elimination of loopholes made by and for rich assholes like him.
So the reason he doesn't release the returns is that it could result in him paying more tax--a fair amount of tax--and being slightly less obscenely wealthy. Still being just as obscenely wealthy is the consolation prize he feels he will need, post-election.
Mitt Romney knows he's got a snowball's chance in hell of winning this election. His tax returns show that he has obscene amounts of money and pays a lower tax rate than the average jizzmopper. If he releases his returns, he's still not going to win the election; but the shock of a real look at a gazillionaire's tax returns could be the catalyst for real tax reform, the elimination of loopholes made by and for rich assholes like him.
So the reason he doesn't release the returns is that it could result in him paying more tax--a fair amount of tax--and being slightly less obscenely wealthy. Still being just as obscenely wealthy is the consolation prize he feels he will need, post-election.
33
Obviously, if he hasn't released them after all this talk that has gone as far back as the primaries, there is something seriously wrong in them. Maybe legal... but definitely unflattering. Ugly. Something he's willing to be dragged through the mud to protect.
I personally wouldn't be surprised - at all - if he hasn't paid anything in ten years, particularly in an era where policy has expressly favored the richest at the expense of the poor and middle class.
I agree with @20.
I personally wouldn't be surprised - at all - if he hasn't paid anything in ten years, particularly in an era where policy has expressly favored the richest at the expense of the poor and middle class.
I agree with @20.
34
"No wonder Congress's approval is even lower than Obama's."
You're pretty bad at your PAC troll job.
You're pretty bad at your PAC troll job.
35
@32 We don't actually tax wealth. We only tax income. So, whatever the tax rates go up to, however much existing post-tax-paid money Romney has, he'll still have. New tax rates only affect new income, and any income added to wealth is yet more wealth.
Now, back in the old days, the King would send around his tax collector to take a percentage of your wealth. In today's terms that would be called a personal property tax, and I'm starting to think that's the way to deal with both the deficit and the super-rich.
Now, back in the old days, the King would send around his tax collector to take a percentage of your wealth. In today's terms that would be called a personal property tax, and I'm starting to think that's the way to deal with both the deficit and the super-rich.
36
@35 yes lets talk about the old days. In the old days we raised revenue for the common good, the government, things like roads, police and fire departments, by taxing property. Why? Because that is where the money was.
Then the industrial revolution happened and folks moved off the farms and started making money by working in factories earning income. So the focus of taxation shifted to that.
The industrial revolution ended and we entered the technology revolution and the age of an interconnected global economy. Now a rational response would be to shift the focus of taxation to follow the money. oops.
note. Yes I know in colonial America the federal government generated its income through lotteries as well. Lotteries still exist funding State and local governments but going there would just be a distraction. And yes I am over simplifying my argument.
Then the industrial revolution happened and folks moved off the farms and started making money by working in factories earning income. So the focus of taxation shifted to that.
The industrial revolution ended and we entered the technology revolution and the age of an interconnected global economy. Now a rational response would be to shift the focus of taxation to follow the money. oops.
note. Yes I know in colonial America the federal government generated its income through lotteries as well. Lotteries still exist funding State and local governments but going there would just be a distraction. And yes I am over simplifying my argument.
37
Here's the story with Dana Bash comments on ac360 and her anon source that fills out 26's link.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02…
Think she is right, Reid knows knows the answer to what Romney is hiding.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02…
Think she is right, Reid knows knows the answer to what Romney is hiding.
38
i sure enjoy reading you republics twisting yourself in knots defending willard. only 1 person can settle the issue and it's not reid. thanks for keeping the topic alive, though!
39
I guess it's not too late for Romney to drop out and the Republicans can nominate Ron Paul at the convention. Wouldn't that be worth a laugh?
40
Oh man, Swift Boating somebody sucks, doesn't it, Republicans? I wonder where your outrage was two presidential elections ago?
Oh wait, you didn't give a shit. Fuck you, (especially you, Bailo) and payback's a bitch. Now cry me some crocodile tears, you worthless skin sacs!
Oh wait, you didn't give a shit. Fuck you, (especially you, Bailo) and payback's a bitch. Now cry me some crocodile tears, you worthless skin sacs!
41
I want the people in this comment thread defending Mitt Romney to read their comment out loud. Sure, in a perfect world maybe what Reid did was wrong, but we don't live in anything close to a perfect world. If the tables were turned could anyone realistically see Romney holding back on a rumor that Obama faked his birth certificate? Reid takes the political fallback for what amounts to a school yard rumor, and Romney could end all the speculation AND put Reid in his political place by proving him wrong and then owning the issue. Anyone else think this is an indication that it's far worse than just not paying taxes? Anyone think Romney has been making money off the government? I'm willing to entertain this rumor till I'm blue in the face, I don't give a fuck I can live with myself if I lied about Romney.
43
@42 - not exactly, but it is in the sense that it's a hardball move designed to show a flaw in character.
44
It's awful when Republicans do it. It's awful when Democrats do it. Bad behavior is bad behavior and partisan thinking is what makes it hard to see this simple truth.
That's why Jon Stewart rocks. He's a Democrat, but that doesn't prevent him from valuing basic human decency over sticking it to Republicans.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02…
That's why Jon Stewart rocks. He's a Democrat, but that doesn't prevent him from valuing basic human decency over sticking it to Republicans.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02…
46
Finally. A democrat who's willing to get his hands dirty. Harry Reid has been too timid for too long and I'm glad to see him throw a punch rather than taking whatever the GOP cares to slap him with this week.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Portland Voters Are Stoopid by Goldy
-
An I-5 Bridge Over the Skagit River Has Collapsed by Paul Constant
-
Why They Break Windows by Unpaid Intern
-
Usually When I'm Sent a Photoshopped Image of a Gun Pointed At Me... by Dan Savage
-
Did You Steal Our Unpaid Intern's Camera? by Goldy
-
The Only Thing More Tragic than a Bridge Collapse Would Be a 10 Cent a Gallon Increase in the Gas Tax by Goldy
-
Tornado Truthers by Dan Savage
-
Star Trek Releases Deleted Scene of Benedict Cumberbatch Showering to Counter Claims of Sexism by Cienna Madrid
-
Boy Scouts Lift Ban on Gay Members by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Not A Prude... And Not Just Not That... by Dan Savage
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (46) RSS