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News & ArtsSunday, July 29, 2012
Animals Activist Launches Petition to Ban Pit Bulls in Seattle
Posted by Dominic Holden on Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 2:28 PM
Seattle resident Ellen Taft—who critics call a "dog hater"—has seized on an attack last week to renew her crusade for a citywide ban on fighting breeds. As the AP reported, "Two pit bull dogs running loose attacked a 3-year-old girl and 74-year-old woman Thursday night in south Seattle." The girl and her family were reportedly leaving church when "one of the dogs allegedly jumped up and bit the 3-year-old in the face."
In response, Taft has blasted media outlets today to promote a Change.org petition aimed at the Seattle City Council and Mayor Mike McGinn. It endeavors to "eliminate all fighting breeds" by asking city hall for sweeping pit bull legislation.
Fighting breed dogs already in the city should be be spayed and neutered, the petition says, and then new fighting breed dogs should be prohibited outright. Finally, the petition asks for "safety precautions such as muzzles" when the dogs are in public. Taft's group, Families and Dogs Against Fighting Breeds, originally created the petition last year but waited to announce it, she says, "until an attack happened so I could respond instantly."
Of course, Taft has circulated a paper petition before, which didn't gain traction, but she expects this one to have more impact because it automatically blasts elected officials with emails. "A lot of people out there support my position," she says, "but they throw up their hands because the pro-pit-bull people get all the good press, the attention, and the sympathy. A lot of supporters are afraid to speak out because the pro-pit-bull people use ad hominem arguments and say we should be executed."
Pit bull critics cite their stats (saying pit-bull-type dogs account for most fatal dog attacks), while pit bull lovers cite their own stats.
Taft's critics have responded to her past advocacy by posing photos of pit bulls with babies.
2
What I love is that the argument that a quality possessed by the breed is what is at fault. The owner of a dog is both legally responsible and factually culpable.
Dogs, regardless of breed, respond to instinct only in a vacuum, create an environment where they feel well controlled and this kind of thing does not happen.
That said, since owners usually can't be trusted I do understand the sloppy logic here, but why Pitbulls alone? They are no more dangerous by physiology than German Shepards and Rottweilers?
Dogs, regardless of breed, respond to instinct only in a vacuum, create an environment where they feel well controlled and this kind of thing does not happen.
That said, since owners usually can't be trusted I do understand the sloppy logic here, but why Pitbulls alone? They are no more dangerous by physiology than German Shepards and Rottweilers?
3
EHRMURHGHURD! PURHT BURHLS!
When are we gonna outlaw annoying yappy dogs? Most Pit Bulls I've ever met are better-trained than those little bastards.
When are we gonna outlaw annoying yappy dogs? Most Pit Bulls I've ever met are better-trained than those little bastards.
4
God works in mysterious ways. It wasn't the dog that bit the girl. God acted through the dog obviously.
5
I recommend banning shitty dog owners, and vasectomies and hysterectomies for the ones that already live here.
10
Well, if this doesn't make the moribund-by-overposting topic of pit bulls come back to rip-roarin' life, I don't know what will.
11
We've already apparently banned Ellan Taft's brain, so, why not keep banning stuff? Ban everything til we live in the set of THX 1138.
12
I don't mind pit bulls as long as if one charges me I can pump a few bullets into it's little brain.
14
First they came for the pitbulls but I didn't own a pitbull so I didn't say anything. Punish the owners not the breed, I don't think there's an epidemic of pitbulls attacking people who had great owners to justify such an action.
15
Thank you for keeping this post professionally detached, Dominic. I appreciate being able to read it as a news report and not an editorial.
19
she is such an asshole. i know this from personal experience. don't try to change her mind; she's one of those people who makes everyone else wrong so she can feel right. ellen, if you're reading this, piss off to spokane, will you?
20
Seems like the problem here is dogs running free and unattended due to negligent owners, not necessarily the breed. When I was a kid, I got bit in the ass by a dog while I was walking home from school, and it wasn't a pit bull, it was just a big dog that wasn't properly confined to the yard by its owner.
21
I read in some of the comments about other topics that pit bulls was one can of worms that should not be gone to nor opened. But, the news is the news and this is a newspaper blog. So, I am going to try to keep up with the comments and enjoy the show.
22
Switzerland Gets Tough on Pit Bulls
http://blog.dogsbite.org/2008/02/switzer…
Under the new measures, 12 dangerous dog breeds will be banned and owners whose dogs weigh more 25kg will need a permit to walk them in public. Additionally owners of dangerous dogs must hold a license, prove they have completed a dog-training course, muzzle their dog in public spaces, are limited to one per household, and prove that the animal comes from an approved breeder -- it is strictly illegal to breed or cross "fighting dogs."
http://blog.dogsbite.org/2008/02/switzer…
23
As an aside from the topic of pit bulls themselves, may I suggest that that petition website be renamed "absolutelynochangeever.org"? Has any change.org petition ever finally been presented to anyone, let alone caused any change in policy or decision or heart to occur? You might as well inscribe your name in the water in your kitchen sink.
24
@12 Cato the Younger. Just think, if you had been riding by on your bicycle with a gun and shot the dog, not only would you be a hero, but controversial for shooting the gun. Now that would be some thing worth arguing over.
27
In Switzerland:
Last year 4,291 dog attacks were reported, of which 2,678 were on humans. There were also 309 cases of dogs being reported for nuisance behaviour.
In more than 1,000 cases cantonal vets ordered measures, such as muzzles, to be taken to improve safety.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Archive…
28
Better question: what are they going to try to ban next? I mean, once they get rid of the dogs, and the guns, what'll be next on the agenda? I'm thinking hot peppers. Heartburn can be a real bitch.
32
I turned off unregistered comments because the racist troll was a racist troll, and I didn't want it trolling any more. Now the racist troll's comments appear to have vanished completely, which I actually don't regret at all. Carry on.
34
Wow, both sets of statistics are pretty terrible. One site compares the "fatal attack rate" of four different breeds of dogs - one can only assume the four-most-likely-to-kill breeds. The other mainly makes emotional appeals, trying to force a connection between pit bulls and sharks. (Ironically, very, very few people are actually hurt by either.)
I'd like to see proponents of the ban provide conclusive evidence that pit bull attacks are both significantly more common than other attacks and that pit bull attacks are a significant and real danger. But I don't think that they can do that, and I don't think they're terribly interested in doing it either. Its much easier and more effective to scare people than it is to inform them, and you never run the risk that you might be wrong.
I'd like to see proponents of the ban provide conclusive evidence that pit bull attacks are both significantly more common than other attacks and that pit bull attacks are a significant and real danger. But I don't think that they can do that, and I don't think they're terribly interested in doing it either. Its much easier and more effective to scare people than it is to inform them, and you never run the risk that you might be wrong.
35
Let's punish the owner AFTER the 3 years got bit in the face and let's not try to prevent this from happening again.
37
One of the characteristics of pit bulls (and of course dogs are bred for characteristics) is loyalty to their owner. That can take the form of regarding anyone and everyone as a threat to their owner. That characteristic, combined with an incredibly strong neck and jaw, means pitbulls are potentially more dangerous than just about any other breed, including German shepherds and Rottweilers. A lot of people have those two breeds; you don't see stories about them attacking people.
38
Such nonsense. Every decade or so, it seems, we get subjected to the spectre of The Evil Dog Breed. I remember when it was bulldogs, then Dobermans, then Rotweillers.
There's no such thing as a bad dog, but there are bad dog owners, and ninny-pated "activists" who get caught up in whatever the latest outrage is.
Anyone who signs this petition is not only a moron, but a hateful moron.
There's no such thing as a bad dog, but there are bad dog owners, and ninny-pated "activists" who get caught up in whatever the latest outrage is.
Anyone who signs this petition is not only a moron, but a hateful moron.
40
@24, I have been charged and bit by a pit bull before. (16 years ago in Northern Spokane) And I really do wish I had a gun to pump a few bullets in the fucking dog's head instead of dealing with the 12 stitches in my calf I had to deal with.
And BTW...in court the owner claimed her fucking mutt was loved and well cared for..it was my running down the sidewalk that made it go crazy.
And BTW...in court the owner claimed her fucking mutt was loved and well cared for..it was my running down the sidewalk that made it go crazy.
42
Does anyone else think it's odd that sheep-dog and spaniel owners recognize their dogs' bred-in abilities to herd and hunt, but many pit bull owners are in complete denial that their dog's kill-at-any-cost instincts are equally bred-in?
I agree with those that say it's the owner, not the dog, and thus to my mind breed bans are fundamentally unfair.
But bad pit bull owners include the ones who don't acknowledge the fact that - in the right situation, no matter how regularly docile - their pet WILL go for the kill, a skill it is preposterously well equipped for, physically and mentally. And more to the point, it's a trait which pit bull owners over the past several centuries culled the less relentlessly murderous dogs to foster.
Those "My sweetie would NEVER!" pit bull owners are as dangerous as those who keep pit bulls for thug status.
I agree with those that say it's the owner, not the dog, and thus to my mind breed bans are fundamentally unfair.
But bad pit bull owners include the ones who don't acknowledge the fact that - in the right situation, no matter how regularly docile - their pet WILL go for the kill, a skill it is preposterously well equipped for, physically and mentally. And more to the point, it's a trait which pit bull owners over the past several centuries culled the less relentlessly murderous dogs to foster.
Those "My sweetie would NEVER!" pit bull owners are as dangerous as those who keep pit bulls for thug status.
43
As a corollary to @42, a few centuries of culling every pit bull involved in an attack should render it relatively harmless.
44
agree with 42, but how would a ban work anyway, legalistically? Dogs aren't manufactured and branded, or easily specified. I'll bet most of the "bad" dogs are not pedigreed, so is a pitbull like pornography: "I know it when I see it?". What stops anyone from redesignating their dog as an American Box-Skull or whatever isn't the breed named in the ban?
45
Since the victims mentioned were leaving church, when the reported incident occurred, maybe we need to ban churches.
47
You know, I'm definitely on board with the problem lying with the owners, not the breed.
That said, I'm not entirely opposed to the ban, because as long as they can keep doing it, idiots are going to keep getting pit bulls and making them vicious. Too, while pit bulls may not be intrinsically nasty, they are particularly dangerous when trained to viciousness. They've got jaws like a vise and in-born tenacity and those make for very deadly dogs when they're taught to be.
I'm not sure I think a ban is even remotely the best answer, though. I think much stiffer penalties for dogfighting or for your dog attacking someone might serve better, maybe coupled with a permanent ban on animal ownership if you're caught dogfighting or if you're involved in more than one animal attack.
The real necessity is to keep the dogs out of the hands of the assholes. I don't like a ban very much, but there is a real problem and doing nothing isn't a good option either.
@42, sorry, but you're entirely incorrect, and I'm going to guess you don't actually know any owners or dogs who might be affected. I've known rescued pit bulls, and others raised entirely as playful, gentle pets, and I've never seen the slightest sign of a problem from any of them. There's a problem with the breed, it's true, and as you pointed out, they are well-equipped to be dangerous, but they're not any more dangerous than any other dog without bad owners to set them up.
That said, I'm not entirely opposed to the ban, because as long as they can keep doing it, idiots are going to keep getting pit bulls and making them vicious. Too, while pit bulls may not be intrinsically nasty, they are particularly dangerous when trained to viciousness. They've got jaws like a vise and in-born tenacity and those make for very deadly dogs when they're taught to be.
I'm not sure I think a ban is even remotely the best answer, though. I think much stiffer penalties for dogfighting or for your dog attacking someone might serve better, maybe coupled with a permanent ban on animal ownership if you're caught dogfighting or if you're involved in more than one animal attack.
The real necessity is to keep the dogs out of the hands of the assholes. I don't like a ban very much, but there is a real problem and doing nothing isn't a good option either.
@42, sorry, but you're entirely incorrect, and I'm going to guess you don't actually know any owners or dogs who might be affected. I've known rescued pit bulls, and others raised entirely as playful, gentle pets, and I've never seen the slightest sign of a problem from any of them. There's a problem with the breed, it's true, and as you pointed out, they are well-equipped to be dangerous, but they're not any more dangerous than any other dog without bad owners to set them up.
48
@44, they're usually called American Staffordshire Terriers in paperwork or when advertised for sale.
Friends have owned pitbulls over the years I've known them. The dogs are very sweet in the house where they can see that the owners approve of visitors. They are not sweet outside the house; they are defensive, and a defensive dog is a dangerous dog.
Friends have owned pitbulls over the years I've known them. The dogs are very sweet in the house where they can see that the owners approve of visitors. They are not sweet outside the house; they are defensive, and a defensive dog is a dangerous dog.
49
My dog weighs all of 18 lbs. you could kick him across the street if you had to. He's a great pet, plays well with other dogs, but I NEVER let him around toddlers who might grab him in the face. If he bit, it would be MY fault (and I'd feel terrible). He's not a fighting breed, but he's a dog with sharper teeth than brains. Punish the owner!
50
Here in the netherlands "pitbulls" which is not a recognised breed, and all crosses where banned, this resulted in "all dogs with short hair, wide neck" being banned/forcibly nuetered while recognised breeds like amercian bulldog, american stafford and english stafford was all o.k.
Result, rich people who wanted nasty dogs got a stafford, poor people either imported a pitbull with fake stafford papers out of eastern-europe or mixed rothweilers with dogo-argentino's and other non-ban covered breeds.
In the end the ammount of attacks increased as the pollice and the "dog agressive behavior testers" where swamped by all the siezed dogs who never even looked at a person wrong while all kind of nasty not ban covered dogs that did cause incidents got away with repeated worying bahavior.
A more personal experience, i used to take my own dog (a pup of a rescued pitbull mut) to class when i was a kindergarden teachter, kids would pull his ears and he wouldnt bat an eye. Thanx to the ban i had to keep him on a short leash and that was when for the first time in years i had problems. He couldnt get rid of his energy and got way more protective (also because i got more stressed walking him, afraid that i was that he would get siezed) the ban got lifted again, my dog is of the leash again when i walk him in the park and he is back being the sweetest thing ever.
And about the charts/statistics, you know what is the most dangerous dog in the netherlands, the anatolian shepperd, not because of the breed characterristics (although i readily admit being a huge, breed for bear fighting, dog doesnt help) but because its a dog used almost exclusively to guard dodgy car demolition lots and weed plantations, as such it took the place of the rothweiler that moved on to become a pet and emidetly dropped greatly in the bite incedent statistics.
Its what a dog is used for that makes it dangerous, banning pitbull like dogs only stops them from being used as pets and only increases them being used as status-symbol dick extension by wanabe gangsta's, nuetring pits matters jack shit in the agression department and if it is seized they just get another one because they dont care about the dog, they care about the status. And the status only increases with every siezed dog.
Tldr; the dog ban in the netherland did nothing to drop the bite incidents, it increased the amount of agressive, fucked up pitbull like dogs under assholes and introduced dog fighting to the netherlands.
Dont do it, make good rules about siezing dogs showing agresive behavior and testing them before you give them back. Ban assholes who had dog incidents from having dogs ever again.
More...
Result, rich people who wanted nasty dogs got a stafford, poor people either imported a pitbull with fake stafford papers out of eastern-europe or mixed rothweilers with dogo-argentino's and other non-ban covered breeds.
In the end the ammount of attacks increased as the pollice and the "dog agressive behavior testers" where swamped by all the siezed dogs who never even looked at a person wrong while all kind of nasty not ban covered dogs that did cause incidents got away with repeated worying bahavior.
A more personal experience, i used to take my own dog (a pup of a rescued pitbull mut) to class when i was a kindergarden teachter, kids would pull his ears and he wouldnt bat an eye. Thanx to the ban i had to keep him on a short leash and that was when for the first time in years i had problems. He couldnt get rid of his energy and got way more protective (also because i got more stressed walking him, afraid that i was that he would get siezed) the ban got lifted again, my dog is of the leash again when i walk him in the park and he is back being the sweetest thing ever.
And about the charts/statistics, you know what is the most dangerous dog in the netherlands, the anatolian shepperd, not because of the breed characterristics (although i readily admit being a huge, breed for bear fighting, dog doesnt help) but because its a dog used almost exclusively to guard dodgy car demolition lots and weed plantations, as such it took the place of the rothweiler that moved on to become a pet and emidetly dropped greatly in the bite incedent statistics.
Its what a dog is used for that makes it dangerous, banning pitbull like dogs only stops them from being used as pets and only increases them being used as status-symbol dick extension by wanabe gangsta's, nuetring pits matters jack shit in the agression department and if it is seized they just get another one because they dont care about the dog, they care about the status. And the status only increases with every siezed dog.
Tldr; the dog ban in the netherland did nothing to drop the bite incidents, it increased the amount of agressive, fucked up pitbull like dogs under assholes and introduced dog fighting to the netherlands.
Dont do it, make good rules about siezing dogs showing agresive behavior and testing them before you give them back. Ban assholes who had dog incidents from having dogs ever again.
51
This woman is a moron. What she calls "fighting breeds" are made that by stupid HUMANS. Punish the ignorant PEOPLE who turn not only pit bulls, but any breed they get their sorry hands on into fighters. Pits have this discrimination thrown at them because of disgraceful people like Michael Vick. I am a pit bull owner and my girl is scared of cats because I've babied her and raised her with a gentle hand, for crying out loud. People are to blame and idiots like this Ellen Taft should not be given a second thought, much less an article about her uneducated rants.
52
When are you ignorant people going to get it??? DON'T BAN THE BREED...go after the people who made these animals vicious!!! It is NEVER the dog's fault and I will fight against BSL legislation until the day I die. I don't wish harm on anyone but I also don't wish harm to this loyal, loving and beautiful breed either. Have you followed Lennox's story?? What a travesty to that innocent dog and his family. Obviously, you can only think of yourself...humans NEVER do wrong so talk crap about the dog who can't stick up for himself. Well, I'm being the Pitbulls voice here and I say go after the HUMANS. Banning a beautiful breed is NOT the answer!! You are prejudice! Not every Pitbull is mean. Because of a few incidents, you want to ban ALL of them, that's no worse than saying "you're african american and so many of you kill people, so we're going to run all of you out of town", except you don't want to run Pitbulls out of town, you want to destroy them all. SHAME ON YOU!!
54
So many people here are saying, “It’s the owner, not the dog!!” However you feel about the fact of that statement, it’s reasonable to say that since this breed needs such a strict structure that many people can’t provide, and you can’t kick irresponsible people out of the city, why not ban the fucking breed of dog that does the most damage? Banning the breed won’t force people to euthanize their existing dogs, merely prevent more from being owned by bad owners in the future.
But instead of a breed ban, I would rather require all dogs over a certain size to be muzzled in public, with the dog being removed from the owner immediately if they fail to do so.
Also, I don’t give a shit about punishment; I want to prevent my children from being mauled in the first place and I suspect most parents and/or rational people feel that way.
But instead of a breed ban, I would rather require all dogs over a certain size to be muzzled in public, with the dog being removed from the owner immediately if they fail to do so.
Also, I don’t give a shit about punishment; I want to prevent my children from being mauled in the first place and I suspect most parents and/or rational people feel that way.
55
It's as unreasonable to restrict the allowable breeds of dogs as it is to restrict the breeds of allowable cats. But you best be careful you don't hang out underneath my leopard's tree cause she has a taste for slow meat.
56
great idea - ban the bull. why do people need/want pit bulls anyway? they are fierce and kill and maim indiscrimiately. there are plenty of other easier/safe dogs to have - either pure bred, or from the pound. it's a completely, arbitrary breed, they dont have an intrinsic right to exist thru nature.
in my opinion, most people who have them are attention seekers - whether in the hood, or a young hipster/hood wannabe, or the 'im so enlightened not all pit bulls are bad, see i have one and it is great' type of animal lover. in my experience typically an SWF in their 30 or 40s.
BUT, the ban can never be effectively enforced, and can never be effective on a volunteer/education perspective.
There will never be a shortage of horrible dog owners, so every few months there will be a child or old person maimed by pitbulls or pit mixes. always. it will never change.
in my opinion, most people who have them are attention seekers - whether in the hood, or a young hipster/hood wannabe, or the 'im so enlightened not all pit bulls are bad, see i have one and it is great' type of animal lover. in my experience typically an SWF in their 30 or 40s.
BUT, the ban can never be effectively enforced, and can never be effective on a volunteer/education perspective.
There will never be a shortage of horrible dog owners, so every few months there will be a child or old person maimed by pitbulls or pit mixes. always. it will never change.
57
Let me reiterate for the not so well informed.. ANY breed of dog can be made to fight for survival if abused, deprived of food and water and love. Not just pit bulls. A pit bull has no special needs from any other breed of dog other than to be loved and cared for. If a person bases the way they treat a dog upon it's breed, then again, it is the ignorance of that person and not the dog.
And it would be over my dead body if BSL were passed in my area now to take my girl, who's been a member of my family her entire five years of life, away from me. @prompt: That goes for my cats too.
And it would be over my dead body if BSL were passed in my area now to take my girl, who's been a member of my family her entire five years of life, away from me. @prompt: That goes for my cats too.
58
Shut up Ravenscent. You babying your dog to the point of it being scared of a cat, only reinforces the problem with pit bulls; the loyalty to there owners, mixed with the danger of there strength.
A ban isn't right, proper education and training specific to your breed however is. But I think a lot of people like to kid themselves. These dogs are a lot more dangerous, strong and unexpectedly violent than nearly any other breed. Can't remember the last time I read about a Labrador leaving someone in need of stitches.
Now go ahead and post all the stories of Labradors causing injury.
A ban isn't right, proper education and training specific to your breed however is. But I think a lot of people like to kid themselves. These dogs are a lot more dangerous, strong and unexpectedly violent than nearly any other breed. Can't remember the last time I read about a Labrador leaving someone in need of stitches.
Now go ahead and post all the stories of Labradors causing injury.
59
Breed bans and muzzle laws are ineffective. There will always be a new breed of dangerous dog, and dogs are rarely under their owner's control and supervision when they attack.
@42 is partially right, dog owners who say things like "My sweetie would NEVER" are a big part of the problem.
So, make everyone who wants to own a dog larger than 30 pounds pass a training test and licensing exam with questions like "T or F, my dog will behave exactly the same way when I am not present as when I am" and "A hungry, frightened, but well socialized and trained dog alone on the street is A) Friendly B) Vicious C) Unpredictable"
As the owner of a sweet, gentle, well-trained and patient German shepherd who I am completely confident would never attack anyone *in my presence*, I'd love to see a law like that.
@42 is partially right, dog owners who say things like "My sweetie would NEVER" are a big part of the problem.
So, make everyone who wants to own a dog larger than 30 pounds pass a training test and licensing exam with questions like "T or F, my dog will behave exactly the same way when I am not present as when I am" and "A hungry, frightened, but well socialized and trained dog alone on the street is A) Friendly B) Vicious C) Unpredictable"
As the owner of a sweet, gentle, well-trained and patient German shepherd who I am completely confident would never attack anyone *in my presence*, I'd love to see a law like that.
60
Don't like pitbulls? Don't own one. But don't act all holier than thou and try to prevent others from owning pitbulls. Not every dog owner is lazy and irresponsible like Ellen Taft.
62
Shut up? *laughs*
Make me. Can't, can you boogens? Nor can you make the hundreds of thousands of animal lovers across the world shut up because you don't like someone else voicing their opinion. Might as well learn to live with it.
Make me. Can't, can you boogens? Nor can you make the hundreds of thousands of animal lovers across the world shut up because you don't like someone else voicing their opinion. Might as well learn to live with it.
63
Genocide all over again! Hatred of an entire breed because of one incidient! What are you going to ban next? Hilter all over again! Get a grip! Educate don't discriminate. Ignorance and arrogance at its finest in Seattle USA!
64
You people are funny as hell. Seriously. By the time I've reached the end of this and the gun control threads, I'm tempted to buy a pit bull and figure out how to mount a couple 'assault rifles' on his back. And then a saddle for my daughter to ride around in.
65
Remember, Taft would ban all dogs if she could. Pit bulls are the most visible issue for her, but she basically has a manic dog phobia. Ask any animal control officer about her incessant phone calls. This is not a woman who can participate in a rational discussion. Literally.
66
@61 That does seem sensible, doesn't it?
Was I not paying attention and it turns out that pit bulls have opposable thumbs? No? Then that means shitty owners are allowing them to escape and run around and attack people. If a dog found running loose was taken away and never returned--and possibly even destroyed--suddenly all those people with loose fences or doggies that just absolutely need to run around without a leash would discover exactly how easy it is to keep the animal contained.
Any dog running loose is a danger. Your kids should know that. You should know that. Every last dog owner on the planet should know that. Focusing on the breed or on "oh, my sweet baby would never hurt anybody!!!!" ignores the fact that we've taken a predatory animal and bred it to not be afraid of humans. People need to be cautious about dogs, whether they're the owners or just see one playing in the park.
Let's say you get charged $1600 for the first time your dog is rounded up, $3500 the second time, and the third time the animal is not returned and you're fined $8000. Watch for the dogs, pick 'em up, make money for the city.
Was I not paying attention and it turns out that pit bulls have opposable thumbs? No? Then that means shitty owners are allowing them to escape and run around and attack people. If a dog found running loose was taken away and never returned--and possibly even destroyed--suddenly all those people with loose fences or doggies that just absolutely need to run around without a leash would discover exactly how easy it is to keep the animal contained.
Any dog running loose is a danger. Your kids should know that. You should know that. Every last dog owner on the planet should know that. Focusing on the breed or on "oh, my sweet baby would never hurt anybody!!!!" ignores the fact that we've taken a predatory animal and bred it to not be afraid of humans. People need to be cautious about dogs, whether they're the owners or just see one playing in the park.
Let's say you get charged $1600 for the first time your dog is rounded up, $3500 the second time, and the third time the animal is not returned and you're fined $8000. Watch for the dogs, pick 'em up, make money for the city.
67
first it was german shepards, then it was dobermans, then rottweillers, now the pits. Give me a break. Find something else to concentrate on woman, your "efforts" are not appreciated.
68
This string of 'conversations' has gone round and round with the same generalizations and same conclusions, with few variations. So, let me twirl it on around and maybe the clog will go down the drain.
I have known a lot of pit bulls, Rottweilers, and dobermans that were absolutely lovable. Many of them owned by people with toddlers. It is a great joy for a tiny human child to have a real live toy that is bigger than they are and that they can pull on, push, and play with in the way that small kids like to play. When the animal yelps from being hurt by the wee one, it tries to get away and mom or dad uses the situation to teach the child a lesson in consideration and to introduce them to their own physical power.
I have also known people who in their paranoia had trained guard dogs that attacked them because they approached the animal in the wrong way.
I have also known chihuahua's that were a total danger to the achilles tendon. Some thing about being so small causing paranoia.
There are dogs that are bred for fighting other dogs and that tendency can lap over onto humans. That's why some bulldogs are called Pit Bulls. For fighting other dogs in the pit. But just like humans, there is no telling the out come of the litter.
Most of the solutions I have read have involved banning, or punishing the owner AFTER the attack. Any dog that bites someone severely enough to require involving the police should be put down, period. People who own such dogs should be forbidden to own any other dogs. If it were practical and it didn't cost so much, it would be better if large dog owners go through a screening process. It doesn't matter which breed. But, hell, here in Florida the state can't even regulate people owning wild felines or snakes - any thing as long as it is not designated a wild life animal. But one can get a permit to own an alligator. And an alligator is an alligator and does what alligators do - bite down hard. Just like bred-for-fighting dogs.
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I have known a lot of pit bulls, Rottweilers, and dobermans that were absolutely lovable. Many of them owned by people with toddlers. It is a great joy for a tiny human child to have a real live toy that is bigger than they are and that they can pull on, push, and play with in the way that small kids like to play. When the animal yelps from being hurt by the wee one, it tries to get away and mom or dad uses the situation to teach the child a lesson in consideration and to introduce them to their own physical power.
I have also known people who in their paranoia had trained guard dogs that attacked them because they approached the animal in the wrong way.
I have also known chihuahua's that were a total danger to the achilles tendon. Some thing about being so small causing paranoia.
There are dogs that are bred for fighting other dogs and that tendency can lap over onto humans. That's why some bulldogs are called Pit Bulls. For fighting other dogs in the pit. But just like humans, there is no telling the out come of the litter.
Most of the solutions I have read have involved banning, or punishing the owner AFTER the attack. Any dog that bites someone severely enough to require involving the police should be put down, period. People who own such dogs should be forbidden to own any other dogs. If it were practical and it didn't cost so much, it would be better if large dog owners go through a screening process. It doesn't matter which breed. But, hell, here in Florida the state can't even regulate people owning wild felines or snakes - any thing as long as it is not designated a wild life animal. But one can get a permit to own an alligator. And an alligator is an alligator and does what alligators do - bite down hard. Just like bred-for-fighting dogs.
70
@66 my neighborhood has free range corgi (what's plural for corgi?), a long hair dachsund that runs loose, and some setter/pointer mix that wanders around sometimes. The next block over has a golden that basically just sits in his yard--I've never seen him move from there. Two doors down is a german/boxer (I guess) mix that only hangs out loose in the front when the neighbor is doing yard work. Never so much as approaches the sidewalk; he's too busy being a lazy ass. Another neighbor's dog that has a little pit if I'm caucasion somehow got out once but then basically just wandered around bored until she got home.
I mean, shit happens--any half clever dog will eventually sneak out or take advantage of a cracked door or whatever. But it's the habitual asshole owners that need to have the animals taken away. Oh, there's a pit or corgi (seriously, who the fuck lets a pricey breed just wander?) or whatever just ambling down the street, arrest the pooch. Can't ID/chip/tag it? To the pound it goes. It sucks, but that's how it is. If the owner realizes the dog is missing and shows up, he pays the fine for untagged/licensed dog and is made to chip it and pay the fine to get it back. It sucks, but it's for the best. If it happens more than once, he has to have it neutered too.
Oh, it's a pure bred for breeding? Too bad.
Oh, your dog has a chip/tag? The shelter calls you to come pick it up, like any stray kid. Happens twice? Take your puppy, lock it up better. You get billed for a ticket. Third time? Pay your ticket to get it back. Fourth? You lose your dog. Seriously, buy a line for the yard.
I mean, shit happens--any half clever dog will eventually sneak out or take advantage of a cracked door or whatever. But it's the habitual asshole owners that need to have the animals taken away. Oh, there's a pit or corgi (seriously, who the fuck lets a pricey breed just wander?) or whatever just ambling down the street, arrest the pooch. Can't ID/chip/tag it? To the pound it goes. It sucks, but that's how it is. If the owner realizes the dog is missing and shows up, he pays the fine for untagged/licensed dog and is made to chip it and pay the fine to get it back. It sucks, but it's for the best. If it happens more than once, he has to have it neutered too.
Oh, it's a pure bred for breeding? Too bad.
Oh, your dog has a chip/tag? The shelter calls you to come pick it up, like any stray kid. Happens twice? Take your puppy, lock it up better. You get billed for a ticket. Third time? Pay your ticket to get it back. Fourth? You lose your dog. Seriously, buy a line for the yard.
71
@47 - It's funny that you called me entirely incorrect, and then restated exactly what I said in the post: pitbulls have been selectively bred to kill other dogs and thus inherit this instinct, no different than sheep dogs inheriting the instinct to herd; good owners who acknowledge this can overcome the problem.
72
@71 - Guess I should tell my bully and her mom and dad and siblings, etc. and so on, that my father-in-law bred them to be vicious killing machines instead of the lovable family members that they are because some people *ahem* Michael Vick *cough* and other dumb asses abuse them to MAKE them think it's only kill or be killed in the world.
I suppose if dogs can't change given their upbringing, people can't either. How did we evolve again?
FTR, my Aunt has a St. Bernard who lives happily, spoiled rotten in her two bedroom apartment. I don't think he's ever tried to get out to go and rescue anyone even though that's what they were selectively bred to do. @.@
And I will make clear here that my bully is a house dog. She goes out into a fenced in yard when she tells me she needs to go potty and comes straight back to me when she's done. Also, on the rare occasion a stranger comes to my home, I do put her in my bedroom because she has only been socialized with my immediate friends and family. I don't believe she would bite, I just think that ANY dog (even the smallest) who's not been socialized with a wide variety of people should be contained in that instance.
I suppose if dogs can't change given their upbringing, people can't either. How did we evolve again?
FTR, my Aunt has a St. Bernard who lives happily, spoiled rotten in her two bedroom apartment. I don't think he's ever tried to get out to go and rescue anyone even though that's what they were selectively bred to do. @.@
And I will make clear here that my bully is a house dog. She goes out into a fenced in yard when she tells me she needs to go potty and comes straight back to me when she's done. Also, on the rare occasion a stranger comes to my home, I do put her in my bedroom because she has only been socialized with my immediate friends and family. I don't believe she would bite, I just think that ANY dog (even the smallest) who's not been socialized with a wide variety of people should be contained in that instance.
73
I for one miss my Weimeraner, who was bred for hunting lions.
She did such a good job of it, we never saw a lion in all my childhood years in Pennsylvania, Texas, Michigan, or BC.
She did such a good job of it, we never saw a lion in all my childhood years in Pennsylvania, Texas, Michigan, or BC.
74
Wow, did Will just... win?
I'll be damned.
@71, what I said was that you were wrong in claiming that the people who take good care of their dogs, and know that they're safe, are a significant part of the problem. I don't think you have the facts to back that up. For that matter I don't think the numbers exist to settle the issue one way or the other. Given my experience with safe, well-socialized dogs, though, I do find it substantially more plausible that mistreated or fighting-trained dogs are responsible for most or all attacks, and you'd need to have some evidence to the contrary to sell me on the idea of household pets with no history of violence suddenly, unprovokedly mauling children.
I'll be damned.
@71, what I said was that you were wrong in claiming that the people who take good care of their dogs, and know that they're safe, are a significant part of the problem. I don't think you have the facts to back that up. For that matter I don't think the numbers exist to settle the issue one way or the other. Given my experience with safe, well-socialized dogs, though, I do find it substantially more plausible that mistreated or fighting-trained dogs are responsible for most or all attacks, and you'd need to have some evidence to the contrary to sell me on the idea of household pets with no history of violence suddenly, unprovokedly mauling children.
75
Tell me someone with half a brain did NOT quote dogsbite.org as a RELIABLE source!! Really?! The website owned and run by an online psychic (I kid you not) who instigated her OWN dogbite incident is still being quoted by people who know no better?! Get educated....www.whoiscolleenlynn.com
79
@ boogens....so .... you never heard about the first face transplant recipient in France? There's your lab story.
Tiny dogs like Poms have killed babies, for that matter.
There are people who shouldn't own a goldfish, much less a dog. THERE'S your ban material.
AND, while I'm a mostly white female, I an neither in my 30's or 40's (or 20's), and don't have the dogs I have because I want the attention. It's because these dogs were living in squalor and mistreatment (there's a reason they're called "rescues," you know) and I had the ability to get them out of it.
Tiny dogs like Poms have killed babies, for that matter.
There are people who shouldn't own a goldfish, much less a dog. THERE'S your ban material.
AND, while I'm a mostly white female, I an neither in my 30's or 40's (or 20's), and don't have the dogs I have because I want the attention. It's because these dogs were living in squalor and mistreatment (there's a reason they're called "rescues," you know) and I had the ability to get them out of it.
80
If the problem lies primarily with the owners (and I think that generally speaking, it does), then why not do the following:
1) Raise dog registration fees (a lot...like to $100 a year or more.)
2) Put that money towards very strict enforcement of registration. Specifically, a dog without proof of registration is forfeit. If we find it without a tag, you don't own it. You can get it back after a paying a hefty fine and making the registration current.
That way, you can target people who are bad dog owners, generally, without bothering responsible ones and without having to make (possibly arbitrary) decisions based on breed.
1) Raise dog registration fees (a lot...like to $100 a year or more.)
2) Put that money towards very strict enforcement of registration. Specifically, a dog without proof of registration is forfeit. If we find it without a tag, you don't own it. You can get it back after a paying a hefty fine and making the registration current.
That way, you can target people who are bad dog owners, generally, without bothering responsible ones and without having to make (possibly arbitrary) decisions based on breed.
81
Maybe owners should be required to carry insurance for their aggressive breed. They can have whatever they want, but they need to make sure they're covered in case the "unthinkable" happens.
83
Ellen, please either get a job, or a life and leave the rest of us alone. Your petty tempering and interfering is just irritating. You are like 'a black fly in my chardonnay' to paraphrase Alanis.......
84
fines/expensive licenses will never work - see 'handguns' . we will have pit bull and other fighting dog maulings forever. get used to it.
85
@84, funny, other countries who don't reflexively hiss and pull their capes over their faces at the sound of the words "gun control" seem to have managed to exclude gun violence rather effectively. It's almost as if there are effective policy solutions out there, which, for some bizarre reason, we refuse to consider! As if we don't actually have to "get used to it"!
86
I don't know much about pit bulls, but Ellen Taft can have my dachshund when she pries it from my cold, dead ... Who's a good dog? Who's a good dog? You are! Oh yes you are! [Snuggle, snuggle, snuggle!]
Actually, I have met a few seemingly sweet and friendly pit bulls. One was a pup named Cinelli, at the Wright Brothers Cycle Shop in Fremont a few decades back. I was rummaging through a bin of chainrings with my sunglasses dangling from my neck on a strap. Cinelli, probably intrigued by the swaying, gently clamped on to the glasses and would not let go for a good minute, despite lots of patient encouragement. The sunglasses were completely unharmed -- not even a scratch -- but the experience made me wonder if there might not be something to the things I'd heard about pits instinctively locking on once they've bitten. Or, it could have been have just been a puppy not wanting to give up a new toy. But regardless, they do have incredibly powerful jaws...
Actually, I have met a few seemingly sweet and friendly pit bulls. One was a pup named Cinelli, at the Wright Brothers Cycle Shop in Fremont a few decades back. I was rummaging through a bin of chainrings with my sunglasses dangling from my neck on a strap. Cinelli, probably intrigued by the swaying, gently clamped on to the glasses and would not let go for a good minute, despite lots of patient encouragement. The sunglasses were completely unharmed -- not even a scratch -- but the experience made me wonder if there might not be something to the things I'd heard about pits instinctively locking on once they've bitten. Or, it could have been have just been a puppy not wanting to give up a new toy. But regardless, they do have incredibly powerful jaws...
87
I'm curious to how this will work.
Is there some genetic test that will be administered to determine if a dog is amongst a banned breed? Or does he just have to "look" a certain way? What percentage of the DNA of a banned breed is acceptable?
When a dog is a six month old puppy out walking around and somebody reports it as a banned breed—do dog cops come and take it away to euthanize at the Doggy Dachau, or just strangle the puppy in front of me?
So they decide to ban large dogs... Ban over 50lbs or something?
Say I have a dog over 50lbs (and I do). At what point do I have him euthanized? 49.9lbs? Or can I just starve him to keep him under weight?
And what about all those obese fucking fat pugs out there? There has got to be a couple over fifty pounds. Waddl'n about choking on their own snot an' drag'n their distended bellies on the ground, poor things. Can I shoot one when I see it? It'd be a mercy.
And while we're at it, we should probably kill the fat owners (and you KNOW people who pugs are usually fat, amiright?) too, because—let's face it—their gonna make the next dog they own horrifically obese and miserable, too.
Can't have large dogs! Somebody might throw one at you!
BTW. Fun fact: Large dogs, like Danes, require less room and exercise than smaller dogs and are ideal apartment dogs.
Is there some genetic test that will be administered to determine if a dog is amongst a banned breed? Or does he just have to "look" a certain way? What percentage of the DNA of a banned breed is acceptable?
When a dog is a six month old puppy out walking around and somebody reports it as a banned breed—do dog cops come and take it away to euthanize at the Doggy Dachau, or just strangle the puppy in front of me?
So they decide to ban large dogs... Ban over 50lbs or something?
Say I have a dog over 50lbs (and I do). At what point do I have him euthanized? 49.9lbs? Or can I just starve him to keep him under weight?
And what about all those obese fucking fat pugs out there? There has got to be a couple over fifty pounds. Waddl'n about choking on their own snot an' drag'n their distended bellies on the ground, poor things. Can I shoot one when I see it? It'd be a mercy.
And while we're at it, we should probably kill the fat owners (and you KNOW people who pugs are usually fat, amiright?) too, because—let's face it—their gonna make the next dog they own horrifically obese and miserable, too.
Can't have large dogs! Somebody might throw one at you!
BTW. Fun fact: Large dogs, like Danes, require less room and exercise than smaller dogs and are ideal apartment dogs.
88
@72 - Yeah, I'm such a moron that I believe your father-in-law bred for this trait in a single genreration. You realize that breeders were selecting for dog-killing prowess centuries before your father-in-law - or even Michael Vick - was born, right?
@74 - Thank you for the civil reply. So I'm not absolutely wrong. I just might be wrong. I'll concede that. Here's a link for you just the same. And here's a list of around 100 kids that were attacked by the family dog in just the last few years. (Sorry, but it's too depressing to go through to try to figure out how many of the dogs have no history of violence. It is not restricted to pit bulls, but they have a starring role.)
And yes, I know the creator of this list is roundly rejected by breeding-for-traits-actually-works deniers, but they all happened, and each one has links to the reporting news outlets, and almost all of them follow the case all the way through, not just the event itself. That should be an ample sample size with which to prove me wrong.
@74 - Thank you for the civil reply. So I'm not absolutely wrong. I just might be wrong. I'll concede that. Here's a link for you just the same. And here's a list of around 100 kids that were attacked by the family dog in just the last few years. (Sorry, but it's too depressing to go through to try to figure out how many of the dogs have no history of violence. It is not restricted to pit bulls, but they have a starring role.)
And yes, I know the creator of this list is roundly rejected by breeding-for-traits-actually-works deniers, but they all happened, and each one has links to the reporting news outlets, and almost all of them follow the case all the way through, not just the event itself. That should be an ample sample size with which to prove me wrong.
89
Posting pictures of babies with pit bulls proves pit bulls are safe!
Posting pictures of babies with guns proves guns are safe! http://bit.ly/Qbp9Tn
Posting pictures of babies with guns proves guns are safe! http://bit.ly/Qbp9Tn
90
The it's the owner not the breed mantra sounds logical but it's not. This repetitive slogan is illogical. Other dog breeds owned in much greater numbers have equal chances of getting neglectful and abusive owners, yet they adapt to human shortcomings and don't maul people or pets at anywhere near the rate that pitbulls do. Labs are routinely forgotten and chained in backyards and they are the most popular dog breed in America, Labs are not the top killers, pitbull are. Beagles are routinely penned up in backyards and ignored. They are given no human socialization but they do not pose any threat to humans when they get loose. Most dog bites are nothing more than a minor annoyance, as they rarely break the skin. This is why you don't hear about them on the news. If a normal dog is in a fight it will fight until the opponent submits and then stop. Pitbulls don't bite, They maul. They do not stop when the victim submits, they keep on mauling until the pet or human is left in parts. The other problem with pitbulls is that they are extremely strong, and were bred to have fewer pain receptors, and are able to keep breathing while attacking. This makes it extremely hard for people to stop a pitbull attack in progress. News stories are full of stories of strong men being mauled and three or more men being unable to get a pitbull to let go of its victim.
Mortality, Maiming and Mauling by Vicious Dogs, Annals of Surgery, April 2011, is study of dog injuries in hospitals spanning the last 15 years. The study found that you have a more than 2500 times higher chance of dying if attacked by a pitbull. In addition it found that pitbulls caused the highest hospital charges, and the most deaths, dismemberments, permanent disability, and disfigurement of all breeds. The study also found that pitbulls attack children, and owners much more often than other breeds AND IT IS FAMILY LOVED AND UNABUSED PITBULLS THAT ARE MAULING PEOPLE. Despite be given all the love and care that other dogs enjoy, pitbulls turn suddenly and the owners are always shocked by the sudden change in behavior. Alexandra Semyonova, a world reknown animal researcher and author of the book, The 100 Silliest Things People say About Dogs, says pitbulls have a disconnect between the thinking and impulse control centers in the brain and a different chemical make up in the brain. Just as you can't see a gene that suddenly turns on cancer, you can't see the gene that is suddenly activated in a pitbull making them violent. I personally know of several people who had a pitbull turn on them after years of normal behavior. Personal accounts of owners who had "nice" pitbulls doesn't mean that pitbulls are not dangerous. This again is illogical. The statistics on pitbulls seriously harming people at a much higher rate than other dogs are overwhelming. You can't love out genes or untrain genes. Family owned and loved pitbulls can turn on a dime. If you believe that pitbulls are just like any other dog, and regurgitate the false "its the owner not the breed mantra" you might of believed the world was flat, too Just because something sounds good doesn't make it true. http://walkforvictimsofpitbulls.blogspot…
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/pitbulldang…
More...
The it's the owner not the breed mantra sounds logical but it's not. This repetitive slogan is illogical. Other dog breeds owned in much greater numbers have equal chances of getting neglectful and abusive owners, yet they adapt to human shortcomings and don't maul people or pets at anywhere near the rate that pitbulls do. Labs are routinely forgotten and chained in backyards and they are the most popular dog breed in America, Labs are not the top killers, pitbull are. Beagles are routinely penned up in backyards and ignored. They are given no human socialization but they do not pose any threat to humans when they get loose. Most dog bites are nothing more than a minor annoyance, as they rarely break the skin. This is why you don't hear about them on the news. If a normal dog is in a fight it will fight until the opponent submits and then stop. Pitbulls don't bite, They maul. They do not stop when the victim submits, they keep on mauling until the pet or human is left in parts. The other problem with pitbulls is that they are extremely strong, and were bred to have fewer pain receptors, and are able to keep breathing while attacking. This makes it extremely hard for people to stop a pitbull attack in progress. News stories are full of stories of strong men being mauled and three or more men being unable to get a pitbull to let go of its victim.
Mortality, Maiming and Mauling by Vicious Dogs, Annals of Surgery, April 2011, is study of dog injuries in hospitals spanning the last 15 years. The study found that you have a more than 2500 times higher chance of dying if attacked by a pitbull. In addition it found that pitbulls caused the highest hospital charges, and the most deaths, dismemberments, permanent disability, and disfigurement of all breeds. The study also found that pitbulls attack children, and owners much more often than other breeds AND IT IS FAMILY LOVED AND UNABUSED PITBULLS THAT ARE MAULING PEOPLE. Despite be given all the love and care that other dogs enjoy, pitbulls turn suddenly and the owners are always shocked by the sudden change in behavior. Alexandra Semyonova, a world reknown animal researcher and author of the book, The 100 Silliest Things People say About Dogs, says pitbulls have a disconnect between the thinking and impulse control centers in the brain and a different chemical make up in the brain. Just as you can't see a gene that suddenly turns on cancer, you can't see the gene that is suddenly activated in a pitbull making them violent. I personally know of several people who had a pitbull turn on them after years of normal behavior. Personal accounts of owners who had "nice" pitbulls doesn't mean that pitbulls are not dangerous. This again is illogical. The statistics on pitbulls seriously harming people at a much higher rate than other dogs are overwhelming. You can't love out genes or untrain genes. Family owned and loved pitbulls can turn on a dime. If you believe that pitbulls are just like any other dog, and regurgitate the false "its the owner not the breed mantra" you might of believed the world was flat, too Just because something sounds good doesn't make it true. http://walkforvictimsofpitbulls.blogspot…
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/pitbulldang…
91
Really sad.. a child is mutilated.. again and again or somebody dies and all the pitbull advocates can do is joke and offer no solutions. Sad as 1.25 MILLION pitbulls are put down in this country at the tax payer expense as we offer discounted death at shelters around the country to the pitbull owners that all too often you will see on craigslist Just don't have time for the the dog... have to move.. blah, blah. 50 to 70 percent of pitbulls born will be brought into a shelter for euthanization before they reach the age of 2 years. That is a heck of a lot of uncared for dogs BORN TO DIE. If any of these supposed advocates cared about canine animals or humans they would be all for reguations on the breed as regualtions to stop back yard breeders stop the inhumane killing of these dogs by the thousands EVERYDAY. ELLEN is on track. Pitbulls are so overbred that too many people who don't give a hoot about the dogs take them in... If people were breeding turtles to kill them at this rate people would be screaming. Pitbull "advocates" are pitbulls worst enemies. They keep the breed pregnant and putting out new crops of dogs to die and none of them do a damn thing but fight BSL... Stupid. Keep giving more of your pay check to gas pitbulls cause that is what you are ADVOCATING for.. DEATH not humane treatment of pitbulls.
92
@90, @91. It took 89+ tries before some one offered sensible complete information on the 'dog problem'. Take heed of what he writes. I have enjoyed close relationships with pit bulls, dobermans, and rottweilers as friends, but never have owned one, and wouldn't want the tension that owning such an animal would cause. Bigger dogs can be badder than smaller dogs. St. Bernards attack people also. Dobermans have been so overbred for small skull size (to offer a smaller target to an opponent) that their brains are squeezed too tight and this can cause psychotic behavior. The scariest, nastiest dog I ever met was a miniature doberman, named Hitler, but was usually referred to as Psycho.
All the arguments about nurture not nature could be made for keeping Cougars as pets, too. 'She's a real kitty, but don't make any sudden moves or run'. No matter the leash, the pen, the cage or the line, dogs do escape. 'How dare she be running and skipping rope on the sidewalk outside my house'? It reminds me of the last lyric in an Oscar Brown Jr. song about a pet talking to its dying owner, 'but lady, you knew I was a snake when you took me in.'
As a generalization, mutts make for the best pet, but just a plain dog doesn't have the snot value that a dog with papers has. Trophy spouse + trophy kids + trophy dog = smelly narcissism
Now that you have stamped that woman's idea into oblivion, how about attacking a bad idea worthy of defeat: There is a woman in Australia who has a foundation devoted to euthanize all dogs that are not purebred and outlawing the crossbreeding of dogs.
I think it is time to move on to the next topic: People Who Own One-Speed Bicycles.
All the arguments about nurture not nature could be made for keeping Cougars as pets, too. 'She's a real kitty, but don't make any sudden moves or run'. No matter the leash, the pen, the cage or the line, dogs do escape. 'How dare she be running and skipping rope on the sidewalk outside my house'? It reminds me of the last lyric in an Oscar Brown Jr. song about a pet talking to its dying owner, 'but lady, you knew I was a snake when you took me in.'
As a generalization, mutts make for the best pet, but just a plain dog doesn't have the snot value that a dog with papers has. Trophy spouse + trophy kids + trophy dog = smelly narcissism
Now that you have stamped that woman's idea into oblivion, how about attacking a bad idea worthy of defeat: There is a woman in Australia who has a foundation devoted to euthanize all dogs that are not purebred and outlawing the crossbreeding of dogs.
I think it is time to move on to the next topic: People Who Own One-Speed Bicycles.
94
Don't ban pit bulls: classify them as a weapon. If your Juggalo neighbor's collection of unsocialized but existentially innocent pit bulls nose open the screen door & murder a passing kindergartener that clown goes to the pokey as sure as if s/he pulled a trigger.
The only animal I've seen commit more acts of unprovoked violence than pit bulls is humans.
The only animal I've seen commit more acts of unprovoked violence than pit bulls is humans.
96
@kframe. Rattle snakes and hyenas do not purchase assault rifles either, but it is hard to imagine their being allowed in King County as pets. In spite of all the weeping and wailing from bleeding heart dangerous animal lovers.
'Children bitten by dogs - try parenting'. I suppose your idea of parenting is reassuring the child that 'there, there, it didn't hurt that much'.
You should try focusing your energies. period. Doesn't sound like you solve very much. To all those 'it's not the dogs, it's the owners', will agreeing with that make the victims unbitten, or are you so out of date liberal that you blame the victims.
@curiousme. Does that mean that the owners of the pets who harmlessly bite people should be muzzled and kept on a leash? Let the dogs run free and they won't bite any one?
Most of these comments make me wonder if the writers ever go out of doors, if they know enough dogs to realize that they're not all extensions of harmless neuroses, and do they know people at all.
If you like having large animals, then move outside King County into the woods so that your neighbors, less correct than city dwellers, can use them for target practice.
'Children bitten by dogs - try parenting'. I suppose your idea of parenting is reassuring the child that 'there, there, it didn't hurt that much'.
You should try focusing your energies. period. Doesn't sound like you solve very much. To all those 'it's not the dogs, it's the owners', will agreeing with that make the victims unbitten, or are you so out of date liberal that you blame the victims.
@curiousme. Does that mean that the owners of the pets who harmlessly bite people should be muzzled and kept on a leash? Let the dogs run free and they won't bite any one?
Most of these comments make me wonder if the writers ever go out of doors, if they know enough dogs to realize that they're not all extensions of harmless neuroses, and do they know people at all.
If you like having large animals, then move outside King County into the woods so that your neighbors, less correct than city dwellers, can use them for target practice.
97
During the month of August, the Seattle Animal Shelter will spay or neuter ANY pitbull or pitbull mix for just $20. Pass it along, please! http://www.seattle.gov/animalshelter/spa…
98
Would we as the human race ban certain types of people like certain handicapped or disfigured or over weight people? This is just plain nuts. People are sure strange or maybe its just that I am. But all this banning of certain breeds etc... Has got to STOP!!!
99
I'll bet the majority of us are gonna have to take your word for it that @ 90 & 91's posts are noteworthy, as his/her refusal to utilize paragraphs renders the posts unreadable. A shame really. Feel free to paraphrase them.
101
EllenTaft comments
Please sign my petition
www.change.org/petitions/city-council-an….
Also read Jonah Spangenthal-Lee's article Pit-bullies in the Stranger.
Please sign my petition
www.change.org/petitions/city-council-an….
Also read Jonah Spangenthal-Lee's article Pit-bullies in the Stranger.
103
Let's be really open about this. The pit bulls she wants banned are mostly owned by low -income, gang related, street thugs whose dogs are on rope leashes, no tags, and balls the size of cantaloupes. Black, Mexican, Hispanic,White trash, side hat wearing,l baggy shorts sporting, weed smoking section 8 folks are the ones who own these dogs. I bet almost all of the dog attacks are located in the neighborhoods that are low income. I don't hear of pit bull attacks in Magnolia, Shoreline, Queen Anne, Ballard. Let's say the ban get's put into place. Those same shitty dog owners won't follow it.
105
@98 I think you should ban people who bite other people or who bite dogs.
@103 Ban trashy people, or at least people whose style and life style you find not to your taste. While you're at it, put teenagers with baggy pants into pens full of French poodles and let them get licked to death. To hear you tell it, people in Magnolia, Shoreline, Queen Anne, Ballard do not even use toilet paper when they potty they're so upper pure. Where do you people come from and how did you or your antecedents make it to Seattle?
You could devise a safety correctness test for Pit Bulls. Put one in a playpen with an unwanted baby and if it doesn't maul the baby, then he/she/it/whatever passes the test.
How about a new subject that double digit IQ folk can discuss - such as whether it is cruelty to animals to kill a slug or should it be relocated to Olympia.
@103 Ban trashy people, or at least people whose style and life style you find not to your taste. While you're at it, put teenagers with baggy pants into pens full of French poodles and let them get licked to death. To hear you tell it, people in Magnolia, Shoreline, Queen Anne, Ballard do not even use toilet paper when they potty they're so upper pure. Where do you people come from and how did you or your antecedents make it to Seattle?
You could devise a safety correctness test for Pit Bulls. Put one in a playpen with an unwanted baby and if it doesn't maul the baby, then he/she/it/whatever passes the test.
How about a new subject that double digit IQ folk can discuss - such as whether it is cruelty to animals to kill a slug or should it be relocated to Olympia.
106
I wanted to mention Ellen Taft was a parent at our preschool in the early 1990s and she used to push her anti-dog agenda back then. As parents, we wondered why she would try to press this personal issue at a preschool for kids! Because of her beligerency, she was avoided at all costs and eventually left the school because no one would talk to her after she tried to pit people against each other. She is certifiably nuts but with just enough smarts to fool a few misguided people. Best not to engage with her; she's attention-seeking and vicious (more than the pit bulls)
107
I wanted to mention Ellen Taft was a parent at our preschool in the early 1990s and she used to push her anti-dog agenda back then. As parents, we wondered why she would try to press this personal issue at a preschool for kids! Because of her beligerency, she was avoided at all costs and eventually left the school because no one would talk to her after she tried to pit people against each other. She is certifiably nuts but with just enough smarts to fool a few misguided people. Best not to engage with her; she's attention-seeking and vicious (more than the pit bulls)!
108
One has to ask, Has anybody tried to check Ellen Taft for Rabies? every time I am anyplace she could be I get worried, I hear she bites? and look at her actions and her head! she must have a viral disease that causes acute encephalitis, Pitt Bulls yeas, I avoid em, but hey, I am also avoiding Ellen Taft! Just saying!
110
when did we as a society start pushing our beliefs on people to such an extent that everyone must change to make one dumbass ingorant person feel comfortable. theres so much more going on in the world today to even think about this kind of petty shit. unemployment is reaching record highs theyre letting criminals out at an alarming rate and this dumb fuck is worried about pitbulls a dog that this fuck has probably never even owned.i am a pitbull owner i will not let some ignorant asshole take away my rights i fought for this country for 6 years and my rights are being taken away because some asshole has nothing better to do than whine about shit they know nothing about.my guns my dog what next. what will some dumb fuck think of that they dont like so i can give up more of my rights as an american. what happened to the days when people didnt like something so they stayed the fuck away and kept their mouth shut. i dont like all this fucking crying bullshit but damn i sure have to listen to it every time i walk my pitbull through the park. wheres the petition to make it against the law for people to fucking cry about stupid shit ill sign that one right now. my pit never hurt anything he plays with cats and other dogs kids and he has had zero problems. he has been bit by dogs and scratched by cats had is tail pulled and ears tugged on by kids. all he does is run to me crying like a baby and lays down behind me. never snapped back not once no growling. my family dog that i owned a golden retriever about took out my sons eye and for no reason my son was laying on the floor doing nothing.STOP INFRINGING ON MY RIGHTS SO TO MAKE YOURSELF HAPPIER.
111
Pit bulls are not naturally violent. The reason they become violent is because of the owner. The main reason people fear pit bulls most is because the pit bull (which, by the way, is actually up to 3 different kinds of dog and might as well be replaced by the word mutt) is very similar to humans. The breed is smart, and small but can accomplish a lot for its size due to its strength.
If you treat your pit bull well and love it, you will see a level of love returned to you that no other dog can equal. The dogs naturally love humans, and only a very very small number of them are violent, generally due to mistreatment.
If pit bulls are banned now, what breed is next? In Colorado for a long time, the most common dog bite came from a golden. Every dog can be a "fighting dog", it all depends on its history.
If you can't discriminate against people, you shouldn't be able to discriminate against dogs.
If you treat your pit bull well and love it, you will see a level of love returned to you that no other dog can equal. The dogs naturally love humans, and only a very very small number of them are violent, generally due to mistreatment.
If pit bulls are banned now, what breed is next? In Colorado for a long time, the most common dog bite came from a golden. Every dog can be a "fighting dog", it all depends on its history.
If you can't discriminate against people, you shouldn't be able to discriminate against dogs.
112
Anyone thinking about supporting this obsurd ban should see the fill "Beyond the Myth" on netflix now available to watch. You can see what these bans have done to dog owners and innocent dogs. This woman is doing nothing other than trying to instiute another round of senseless killing of innocent dogs because of her own hysteria. Bans of this sort and others that infringe on the rights of American citizens are becoming increasingly frequent, only to get someones face on TV or some sort of recognition for themselves. Hate against a breed is exactly the kind of thing that eventually culminates in hate toward a group of people, a political group and other such infringements. People need to wake up. In todays media culture it is the media that drives these fears for shock value and allows this precious breed to be killed by the thousands and allows those that abuse them for dog fighting to continue underground. WAKE UP!!! This women is a hater nothing more and I will fight tooth and nail to prevent a ban of any specific breed. Next it will be yorkies. Watch the film and get the facts, not hte myth and scare tactics. http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Beyond…
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