Slog
News & ArtsFriday, July 27, 2012
Life / Media "The NRA Is the Best Friend the Killer's Instinct Ever Had"
Posted by David Schmader on Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 9:25 AM
That's just one of many bracing statements made by PBS's Bill Moyers in this video that was released a few days ago but that I'm sharing now, one week after the Aurora massacre.
Another stretch of words that deserve to be spelled out: Moyers' description of the NRA as "the enabler of death—paranoid, delusional, and as venomous as a scorpion."
1
Did Michael Moore ever review Switzerland in his documentary?
Every home has a weapon.
Lowest death rate by gun in world.
Try answering why...instead of ignoring the data.
Every home has a weapon.
Lowest death rate by gun in world.
Try answering why...instead of ignoring the data.
2
Canada has lots of guns too and not near the gun killings as America. Norway has few guns but when a man gets one and has a bee up his, I mean in his bonnet, he takes out what 70+ people. I'm beginning to think the problem is NOT guns but Americans.
3
@1 - Also compulsory military service, iincluding state-sponsored gun safety education. For all the NRA crows about "responsible gun ownership" they sure go out of their way to make sure responsibility is never actually requred for having a deadly weapon.
Have you been called a dipshit yet today? Dipshit.
Have you been called a dipshit yet today? Dipshit.
4
@1 Could it have something to do with Switzerland NOT having a culture of indiscriminate widespread slaughter? War on TV every night for a decade at a time, and powerful group of bribery artists who make sure the slaughter never stops? Do they ignore massive body counts because the remedy might, gasp, hurt commerce?
6
@3 Exactly. A gun in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it is completely useless. After the Aurora shooting, gun owners turned to these elaborate fantasies of "if there were more armed people in the theather this never would have happened." But frankly, since most gun owners have no training and no clue what to do in a real firefight, it wouldn't have made a shred of difference.
8
@6 my first thought when I heard that quote was that any person who thinks it would be acceptable firing back at the shooter in a theater full of panicing people should not have the right to own a gun.
10
@ 1
You mean like at the Fort Hood shooting massacre in which 13 people were killed and 29 were injured??
Yeah, if only there had been more people armed at one of the world's most heavily fortified military bases, maybe they could have stopped the whole fucking thing.
You mean like at the Fort Hood shooting massacre in which 13 people were killed and 29 were injured??
Yeah, if only there had been more people armed at one of the world's most heavily fortified military bases, maybe they could have stopped the whole fucking thing.
11
@1, the onus is on those who want the guns to answer why. The NRA should be in favor of closing the gun show loophole, maintaining a proper registry and licenses for transporting guns. The NRA should not be advocating citzens returning fire in a crowded theater and arming everyone for shootouts. Do you understand the issue here at all?
12
#1- Ugh. Quit it with Switzerland
- Every Swiss home does not have a gun, the US has about 3x as many guns per capita
- You're thinking of their weird Swiss law that men up until age 30 must have an army rifle at home. That's true, but it's illegal for them to have BULLETS for those guns unless there's a war.
- Switzerland has a very high death rate by gun, with a suicide rate higher than almost all of Europe and 2x higher than the US, which has a high suicide rate itself
- Switzerland doesn't even have the "lowest" murder rate - even its neighbors Austria and Germany have lower murder rates. All of western/northern/central Europe has very low murder rates compared to the US.
- Blah blah mandatory gun training, low poverty rate, different culture, not America. If you think more guns = less crime in America, compare the west coast (fewer guns, less murder) vs the south (many more guns, much more murder) or cities (fewer guns, less murder) vs rural areas (more guns, more murder per capita).
- Every Swiss home does not have a gun, the US has about 3x as many guns per capita
- You're thinking of their weird Swiss law that men up until age 30 must have an army rifle at home. That's true, but it's illegal for them to have BULLETS for those guns unless there's a war.
- Switzerland has a very high death rate by gun, with a suicide rate higher than almost all of Europe and 2x higher than the US, which has a high suicide rate itself
- Switzerland doesn't even have the "lowest" murder rate - even its neighbors Austria and Germany have lower murder rates. All of western/northern/central Europe has very low murder rates compared to the US.
- Blah blah mandatory gun training, low poverty rate, different culture, not America. If you think more guns = less crime in America, compare the west coast (fewer guns, less murder) vs the south (many more guns, much more murder) or cities (fewer guns, less murder) vs rural areas (more guns, more murder per capita).
14
@13: I am quite sure Bailo's whole schtick is to ignore the data.
What kills me is that basically no one is against background checks, but when you suggest new legislation that will cover the 40% of gun sales that do not require a background check you suddenly "want to take all the guns away."
Because honestly, as long as there is a way to get a legal gun so easily without a background check, harping about the amount of guns legal or otherwise, is essentially meaningless.
Universal background checks to screen out the mentally ill and criminals is step one.
Step two is repairing mental health services so that the many people who need those services go to the hospital instead of a gun show.
It is impossible to stop events like this completely, but the only reasonable way to reduce them quickly is gun restrictions, and available health services.
What kills me is that basically no one is against background checks, but when you suggest new legislation that will cover the 40% of gun sales that do not require a background check you suddenly "want to take all the guns away."
Because honestly, as long as there is a way to get a legal gun so easily without a background check, harping about the amount of guns legal or otherwise, is essentially meaningless.
Universal background checks to screen out the mentally ill and criminals is step one.
Step two is repairing mental health services so that the many people who need those services go to the hospital instead of a gun show.
It is impossible to stop events like this completely, but the only reasonable way to reduce them quickly is gun restrictions, and available health services.
15
"Step two is repairing mental health services so that the many people who need those services go to the hospital instead of a gun show."
Right exactly, bring back the asylum and end deinstitutionalization.
As far as Switzerland, here is the data, which I have already posted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politic…
You cannot get around the fact that a well ordered society with legal guns is gnerally a safe society.
Right exactly, bring back the asylum and end deinstitutionalization.
As far as Switzerland, here is the data, which I have already posted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politic…
You cannot get around the fact that a well ordered society with legal guns is gnerally a safe society.
16
Where does this fantasy that urban environments have less violent crime per capita than rural envrionments come from? Every study I've read on the subject from the DOJ's Bureau of Justice Statistics (a pretty reliable source for national data on such issues) shows precisely the opposite. Such statistics also show that firearm usage in violent crimes is higher in urban areas than in suburban or rural areas.
While I absolutely agree that we are in dire need of reasonable, effective gun control legislation, you're not going to win converts by spewing false data that serves your biases.
While I absolutely agree that we are in dire need of reasonable, effective gun control legislation, you're not going to win converts by spewing false data that serves your biases.
17
15: There's a difference between a well ordered society with well regulated guns (Europe & Canada), and the most guns of anyone in the world for anyone no matter what, as many as you want, any kind you want, or else!!! (United States)
18
@11,
The NRA used to be in favor of background checks and other gun control legislation, including prohibitive taxes on assault weapons. But, in the '60s, it got taken over by the lunatic racist fringe, think Stormfront, paranoid about the dark hordes taking their wimmen. So now the NRA rails against the UN as the New World Order, determined to disarm average Americans.
The NRA used to be in favor of background checks and other gun control legislation, including prohibitive taxes on assault weapons. But, in the '60s, it got taken over by the lunatic racist fringe, think Stormfront, paranoid about the dark hordes taking their wimmen. So now the NRA rails against the UN as the New World Order, determined to disarm average Americans.
19
I like Bill Moyers. This time he is all wrong. Demonstrable of those who seek to limit the constitutional derived freedom to bear arms, he doesn't know what he is talking about. What is his fetish with the AK47? Is it worse than other guns? Why did he say that the killer had an ak47 "type" gun? The shooter had an AR15, a very different type of weapon. A spare me the "They are all the same cause they kill people". He specifically used the term AK47 cause people are more scared by that particular gun for some reason and in this case he is a merchant of fear. The restriction of freedoms in the light of a tragic event is what people here opposed when Bush sought and got the patriot act passed. Now, born out of ignorance and fear, they wave the white flag and line up to sacrifice their own liberty for the illusion of "safety". BTW, the theater was a gun free zone. How was he able to shoot so many people?
20
Thirty years ago I joined the NRA because I was an enthusiast of shooting sports. Back then, it seemed like the NRA was a proponent of safe hunting and shooting competition. I didn't notice their strange political goal of getting as many assulat weapons into the hands of the public. I soon quit, and have come to despise them more and more every year. They are a scary group now.
21
@15: Um, the Wikipedia article you linked to doesn't actually contain any raw data, let alone any statistics supporting any points you made. And just so you know, "data" is a plural word.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
All You Motherfuckers Complaining That aPodments Are Too Small at 200 Square Feet by Dominic Holden
-
Portland Voters Are Stoopid by Goldy
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!) by Dan Savage
-
Rightwing Anti-Gay French Activist Commits Suicide at Notre Dame Cathedral by Dan Savage
-
Spoiled Rotten: Star Trek Into Darkness by Paul Constant
-
There Are No Atheists In Foxholes by Dan Savage
-
Tornado Truthers by Dan Savage
-
Saint Genet Re-Creates "Shoot" by Brendan Kiley
-
America's Epidemic of Toddler-on-Toddler Gun Violence Continues by Goldy
-
Listen Up, Gays: They're Coming to Recruit You by Cienna Madrid
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (22) RSS