Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, July 25, 2012
2012 Mitt Romney Is Misinformed About the Aurora Shooting
Posted by Paul Constant on Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:01 PM
Here's Mitt Romney in an NBC interview about gun control.
The relevant passage:
Well, this person shouldn't have had any kind of weapons and bombs and other devices. It was illegal for him to have many of those things already, but he had them. And so we can sometimes hope that just changing the law will make all bad things go away. It won't. Changing the heart of the American people may well be what's essential to improve the lots of the American people.
Anyone with even the barest understanding of the shootings know that the shooter acquired his guns and ammunition legally. It was all over-the-counter and perfectly legal. Mitt Romney still doesn't know that, and he's defending his policy based on that misinformation. This feels like a bigger problem than gun control: It feels to me that the Romney campaign doesn't quite have a proper grasp on reality.
2
Not to defend the Romster, but he makes enough real mistakes that you don't have to drum up a false one. Tear gas grenades and bombs are NOT legal to obtain, so Romney was accurate - through the use of the weasel-word "many" - were illegal for him to have. I think that we can also agree entirely with his first quote that he "shouldn't have had any kind of weapons. . .". That he did (even legally obtained ones) doesn't negate the idea that he shouldn't have. Duh.
3
@2 Tear gas grenades are legal in Colorado. I suspect his bombs were made with legal to purchase ingredients as well since everything else he bought was legal.
I think this is relevant because it's indicative of the Republican parties larger issue of making policy decisions based their gut feeling instead of data, historic trends and expert advice.
I think this is relevant because it's indicative of the Republican parties larger issue of making policy decisions based their gut feeling instead of data, historic trends and expert advice.
5
Most people on either side (and Mitt has been on both) don't know what they are talking about regarding guns.
It is kind of interesting to note that the 100rd drum magazine that people are worked up over jammed. If the shooter had been using standard capacity magazines this most likely wouldn't have happened, meaning he potentially could have killed more than he did.
It is kind of interesting to note that the 100rd drum magazine that people are worked up over jammed. If the shooter had been using standard capacity magazines this most likely wouldn't have happened, meaning he potentially could have killed more than he did.
6
@2
From the reports I've seen, everything he purchased was legally purchased and he passed the required background checks.
So Romney is wrong.
"That he did (even legally obtained ones) doesn't negate the idea that he shouldn't have. Duh."
Actually it kind of does.
That's the whole issue here.
You cannot RETROACTIVELY rule that he was not supposed to be legally able to acquire that stuff.
From the reports I've seen, everything he purchased was legally purchased and he passed the required background checks.
So Romney is wrong.
"That he did (even legally obtained ones) doesn't negate the idea that he shouldn't have. Duh."
Actually it kind of does.
That's the whole issue here.
You cannot RETROACTIVELY rule that he was not supposed to be legally able to acquire that stuff.
7
@6,
Put it this way: stating that some people shouldn't have kids doesn't mean I'm saying that having kids is (or should be) illegal. Clearly this nutter shouldn't have had the weapons he had.
Put it this way: stating that some people shouldn't have kids doesn't mean I'm saying that having kids is (or should be) illegal. Clearly this nutter shouldn't have had the weapons he had.
8
Right or wrong doesn't matter, as we've learned. Repeat the same lies over and over until it becomes the truth to his base.
9
Are we supposed to be surprized that a campaign that has repeatedly harped on the threat posed by the Soviet Union might be fuzzy on the details of an event that happened last week?
10
Romney's always talking to his base. His campaign doesn't have to have a grip on reality; his base doesn't care about reality.
11
@6 - Is it legal to make homemade bombs out of legally obtained ingredients? For example, if you made a 1 ton bomb out of fertilizer and other legal substances, and the police pull you over with it in your Ryder truck, are you in the clear?
I imagine there is some statute on the books that would put you on the wrong side of the law for that.
I imagine there is some statute on the books that would put you on the wrong side of the law for that.
12
What about the body armor? Is that stuff legal? It seems like I've seen gangsta arrests including that as additional charges but maybe it's a jurisdiction thing.
13
Look, let's not make this debate just about guns.
How about discussing how our streets and even our lives have become open air insane asylums.
It all started back in the 1970s, when "forward thinking" liberals decided that putting crazy people and hard core drug addicts into nice clean rooms in the country to clear there minds was a bad idea...and instead they should wander the streets and steal from people!
How about we revisit the idea of the sanitarium.
Oh, and another thing...they are still trying to make out that James Holmes was some kind of loser...one of his college teachers referring to him as mediocre.
Facts:
1) He graduate cum laude from college
2) He was allowed into a prestigious neuroscience program, tuition and expenses paid
3) The program only allows 6 people in per year
4) He also got a stipend of $26,000 from the NIH - incredible because they kept talking about his job at McDonald's as if were the only job he could get...when he was being paid to take some tests, learn and research at the highest academic levels
5) This guy was in the midst of the mental and brain science infrastructure...the people he studied under, while scientists, were associated with trying to solve neural illnesses....yet he walked through their defenses like ghost passing through the night!!
6) Based on his academic history, he was warmly embraced by the system and probably could have ended up not only a researcher, but a high level administrator in the nation's health infrastructure.
So, guns are only surface. The system must be fully dysfunctional if it voluntary elected Mr. Holmes to represent it. And for all you brainiacs trying to C.Y.A. -- cut the backpedaling!
14
Shorter @13: Don't pay attention to the point of the post, look at all these irrelevant facts that I can spew!
If assault weapons were illegal for everyone, we wouldn't have to undertake the impossible task of separating the garden variety weirdos from the homicidal maniacs. Why would we want anyone to have access to assault rifles, whose only purpose is to kill humans as efficiently as possible?
If assault weapons were illegal for everyone, we wouldn't have to undertake the impossible task of separating the garden variety weirdos from the homicidal maniacs. Why would we want anyone to have access to assault rifles, whose only purpose is to kill humans as efficiently as possible?
15
Why didn't Brian call him on that bullshit response. Isn't that the point of his job? Or did he after the cut?
16
@14,
You think that getting rid of guns will solve the problem and everyone can just live happily ever after. You're wrong. The same way people who think that if we ban abortions, we can ignore all the unplanned pregnancies, or that if we ban drugs, we can ignore all the addicts. You're ignoring the real problem.
Whether guns are banned or not, the most important thing is separating the garden variety weirdos from the homicidal maniacs.
If assault weapons were illegal for everyone, we wouldn't have to undertake the impossible task of separating the garden variety weirdos from the homicidal maniacs.This is the reason I argue with most gun control advocates.
You think that getting rid of guns will solve the problem and everyone can just live happily ever after. You're wrong. The same way people who think that if we ban abortions, we can ignore all the unplanned pregnancies, or that if we ban drugs, we can ignore all the addicts. You're ignoring the real problem.
Whether guns are banned or not, the most important thing is separating the garden variety weirdos from the homicidal maniacs.
17
"Governor Romney, what steps would you take as chief executive to change the heart of the American people? Do you favor a constitutional amendment mandating this change of heart, or would you favor a more modest legislative approach?"
"Changing the heart of the American people may well be what's essential to improve the lots of the American people."
--Mitt Romney
"Governor Romney, what steps would you take as chief executive to change the heart of the American people? Do you favor a constitutional amendment mandating this change of heart, or would you favor a more modest legislative approach?"
18
16 - I think you missed the part where I called that an impossible task. Usually the only way a maniac separates himself from the other weirdos is when he goes and shoots up a movie theater, or a school, or a cafe, or office.
The utter stupidity of @13's post is that he doesn't realize that the resume of the shooter that he brings attention to would, minus, you know, the horrific massacre, make most pro gun people say that this guy should be held up as the model gun owner.
The utter stupidity of @13's post is that he doesn't realize that the resume of the shooter that he brings attention to would, minus, you know, the horrific massacre, make most pro gun people say that this guy should be held up as the model gun owner.
19
does willard really think we're so naive as to believe that "just changing the law will make all bad things go away"? does he think we're 4?
that's rhetorical. he thinks we're 4.
you 2A defenders have to be shaking with rage at this ignorance, right? i mean, he's the NRA's guy!
that's rhetorical. he thinks we're 4.
you 2A defenders have to be shaking with rage at this ignorance, right? i mean, he's the NRA's guy!
20
#14
Even shorter version.
The manager of the Arapahoe County Gun Club immediately figured out he was a nutty-nutty and denied his entry.
But the entire academic mental health and neurology apparatus of the nation instead classified him as a genius and gave him a $26,000 stipend to buy WMDs.
Whose system is broken?
Even shorter version.
The manager of the Arapahoe County Gun Club immediately figured out he was a nutty-nutty and denied his entry.
But the entire academic mental health and neurology apparatus of the nation instead classified him as a genius and gave him a $26,000 stipend to buy WMDs.
Whose system is broken?
21
@11
"Is it legal to make homemade bombs out of legally obtained ingredients?"
That depends upon the local laws.
In many places, yes, it is.
In many places, it is legal to purchase dynamite.
Although most do require a permit for it and a background check.
"Is it legal to make homemade bombs out of legally obtained ingredients?"
That depends upon the local laws.
In many places, yes, it is.
In many places, it is legal to purchase dynamite.
Although most do require a permit for it and a background check.
22
@11 It is illeagal to shoot puople with legal weapons, so what's your point? The guns get a pass because they're legal but if you buy a smoke bomb from a firework stand on the rez and take to a place with a burn ban you're a criminal? Grow up.
23
@18,
How do you know that's an impossible task (i.e., separating murderous insane from non murderous insane)? Never mind, that's a rhetorical question.
So we should just give up trying to sort them out?
Ban guns, and the homicidal ones will still be homicidal. Maybe they'll hack people up with knives and axes? Maybe they'll run people down in cars? Maybe they'll burn a couple houses down? Maybe they'll make improvised explosive devices?
You can't ban everything that can be used as a deadly weapon.
The point is, banning guns has that real nice emotional satisfaction to it... but then what? What's the plan after the guns are banned but the maniacs are still out there? Nothing?
How do you know that's an impossible task (i.e., separating murderous insane from non murderous insane)? Never mind, that's a rhetorical question.
So we should just give up trying to sort them out?
Ban guns, and the homicidal ones will still be homicidal. Maybe they'll hack people up with knives and axes? Maybe they'll run people down in cars? Maybe they'll burn a couple houses down? Maybe they'll make improvised explosive devices?
You can't ban everything that can be used as a deadly weapon.
The point is, banning guns has that real nice emotional satisfaction to it... but then what? What's the plan after the guns are banned but the maniacs are still out there? Nothing?
24
@23 makes the salient point, the old slogan: criminalize guns and only criminals will have guns" has been used as an excuse to not regulate firearms, yet every country that has regulated hand gun use has a lower murder rate and no higher rate of violent crime than the USA. In the UK and all of the EU countries you can own hunting rifles and shot guns, so what is so sacred about Saturday night specials?
25
It feels to me that the Romney campaign doesn't quite have a proper grasp on reality.
This goes for every Republican. Even the ones who appear sane. They continue to rationalize and deny that everyone else who agrees w/ them is also insane. Republicans believe that science is the enemy, that religious bigotry should be the law of the land. Also that the invasion of Iraq was a good idea, and that it was justified. They believe that Obama, after not even being sworn in, somehow miraculously caused the economy to tank, and that, well, Obama is responsible for every evil. Who's more crazy, the idiots who believe that crap, or the idiots who think that they should be listened to?
26
@24
Look at the incarceration rates of the USofA and "the UK and all of the EU countries".
The situation is a lot more complex than just having guns available for purchase.
Look at the incarceration rates of the USofA and "the UK and all of the EU countries".
The situation is a lot more complex than just having guns available for purchase.
28
#13- a sanatarium is a group facility for infectious diseases, such as tuberculosis, not a looney bin. Also, it was Reagan who gutted the mental health system in the '80's by deeply cutting funding for mental health services.
30
@27
"the USA has more people in prison, per captita, than any other industrialised nation. Why?"
I'm not really sure so this is going to be a shot in the dark based off of my guy instincts but I'm going to guess ... because they were sentenced in a court of law.
Does that clear it up for you?
Or do you have some more rhetorical games to play?
Since I was the one who told you to compare those rates as an illustration of the situation being more complex than you like to pretend it is.
"the USA has more people in prison, per captita, than any other industrialised nation. Why?"
I'm not really sure so this is going to be a shot in the dark based off of my guy instincts but I'm going to guess ... because they were sentenced in a court of law.
Does that clear it up for you?
Or do you have some more rhetorical games to play?
Since I was the one who told you to compare those rates as an illustration of the situation being more complex than you like to pretend it is.
31
You all are missing the point. Romney supports legislation that would make obtaining many of the weapons Holmes had illegal.
He may think such legislation already exists, but either way, he apparently supports it.
Pass it on.
He may think such legislation already exists, but either way, he apparently supports it.
Pass it on.
32
he's just lying. he's not stupid or inept or whatever, he's just a liar.
every item that was actually involved in the killing and wounding of people was legally obtained.
every item that was actually involved in the killing and wounding of people was legally obtained.
33
I think we should outlaw being a murderous asshole. Wait, we already did. And yet people still kill people. Huh.
34
Also, pretty sure the making of homemade explosives is illegal everywhere in the States. Doing so in public is going to bring you to the unfriendly attention of the ATF. Even buying large amounts of the materials involved (fuel, fertilizer, etc) will get you flagged, and I'm pretty sure you need to be licensed for high amounts of stuff like ammonia nitrate. Small amounts? No. A trip to my local garden center could get me enough to make a very bad day for someone. But Romney, though idiotic, is right that the explosives were already illegal.
35
I think we're focusing on the wrong part of that speech.
Nobody is suggesting that even the most stringent legal restrictions would stop "all bad things from happening". In fact, few people are even suggesting that better gun laws would have stopped this specific psycho. What we're suggesting is that better gun laws could stop a good portion of the 9,000 or so gun murders we have each year in this country. If gun laws could stop even 10% of those people from having guns that's 900 murders that didn't happen. 900 people still alive. Even if you think that some of those would have been killed with knives I bet most of them would still be alive.
This isn't about 12 dead people. This is about thousands of dead people. This isn't about one mass murderer who spent months planning his attack. This is about thousands of people who get pissed off and have an easy way to kill someone without having to even think twice about it.
Nobody is suggesting that even the most stringent legal restrictions would stop "all bad things from happening". In fact, few people are even suggesting that better gun laws would have stopped this specific psycho. What we're suggesting is that better gun laws could stop a good portion of the 9,000 or so gun murders we have each year in this country. If gun laws could stop even 10% of those people from having guns that's 900 murders that didn't happen. 900 people still alive. Even if you think that some of those would have been killed with knives I bet most of them would still be alive.
This isn't about 12 dead people. This is about thousands of dead people. This isn't about one mass murderer who spent months planning his attack. This is about thousands of people who get pissed off and have an easy way to kill someone without having to even think twice about it.
36
Changing the heart of the American people may well be what's essential to improve the lots of the American people.
Hm, maybe, but the medical bills for "changing [my] heart" out would surely bankrupt me. :(
More seriously, how does Rmoney propose to change Americans' hearts? We're generally kind people, if heavily armed, and increasingly divided. What does he actually mean??
Hm, maybe, but the medical bills for "changing [my] heart" out would surely bankrupt me. :(
More seriously, how does Rmoney propose to change Americans' hearts? We're generally kind people, if heavily armed, and increasingly divided. What does he actually mean??
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Foie Gras Tastes Like Cat Food by Callan Berry
-
SL Letter of the Day: The Tell-Tale Handjob by Dan Savage
-
Cap Hill Is Becoming a Little Like What? by Charles Mudede
-
Pizza Update: Breaking the 5-Minute Barrier by Goldy
-
President Obama Says NSA Spying Is "Transparent" by Paul Constant
-
Today in the Surveillance State: The "War on Reality" by Brendan Kiley
-
Slog Bible Study: Leviticus 20:9 by Goldy
-
The Full Text of David Guterson's Controversial Commencement Speech by Dominic Holden
-
The Monday Morning News by Goldy
-
In Which Peter Steinbrueck Peforms in Blackvoice by Goldy
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (37) RSS