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News & ArtsThursday, July 19, 2012
2012 Quick! Someone Ask Ann Romney What She Thinks About Cake!
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:28 AM
Dominic put this in the Morning News already, but it deserves its own post:
Ann Romney dismissed concerns about her husband’s tax returns Thursday, contending that the two of them have “given all you people need to know.”
I guess she means "you reporters," but Ann Romney shares her husband's proclivity for accidentally saying things that sound like class war to the general public.
2
i'd prefer if either side of the aisle stayed away from judging the spouses and children of candidates, i find it to be tasteless. i understand that she put this information out there, but there is just no merit in this kind of rhetoric, think of the nasty things that the other side says about michelle obama and her healthy eating crusade. these people are (mostly) innocent bystanders.
4
Yet another financial flip-flop: the Mormon church is going to be very upset to learn the Rmoneys are only donating 10% of their income vs. the previously stated 15%.
6
@2: then she shouldn't be a political surrogate and should refuse interview requests.
kids are off limits - but when they become adult surrogates for the candidate (lesbian daughters of conservative politicians promoting anti-gay legislation), fuck them.
michelle is fair game, but she just happens to be genuine and awesome. ann rmoney is not.
kids are off limits - but when they become adult surrogates for the candidate (lesbian daughters of conservative politicians promoting anti-gay legislation), fuck them.
michelle is fair game, but she just happens to be genuine and awesome. ann rmoney is not.
7
I believe the tithing she is referring to is required by the Mormon church. Doesn't seem very generous at all.
8
Hey You People…
Let's be clear about something. The "tithing" that mormons pay should NOT be considered philanthropy. Mormons are REQUIRED to pay 10%, or they are not able to maintain a Temple Recommend, which is their pass to enter the Mormon Temple.
Tithing, to mormons, is to be paid first, before all other expenses. This is not an option for Mitt.
Let's be clear about something. The "tithing" that mormons pay should NOT be considered philanthropy. Mormons are REQUIRED to pay 10%, or they are not able to maintain a Temple Recommend, which is their pass to enter the Mormon Temple.
Tithing, to mormons, is to be paid first, before all other expenses. This is not an option for Mitt.
9
"You people," she says. Us-vs-them mentality. Everybody is either part of our clan our one of the rude little beggars outside of it. The media, unconnected politicians, unwashed peasants, they're all "you people."
11
@6 i understand that, but this stuff is doing nothing for the level of discord between the parties, not to mention that it makes dems look bad, essentially negating whatever negative effect it would have on his campaign.
both sides need to start taking steps towards more civil discourse. dont get me wrong, i want the dems to eviscerate his campaign, i just wanna start heading towards a government that can think a little more long term and not react to a sound bite for 6 hours then desperately search for the next ratings boost. i dont care if i'm asking too much, thats what i want.
both sides need to start taking steps towards more civil discourse. dont get me wrong, i want the dems to eviscerate his campaign, i just wanna start heading towards a government that can think a little more long term and not react to a sound bite for 6 hours then desperately search for the next ratings boost. i dont care if i'm asking too much, thats what i want.
13
By “proclivity for accidentally saying things that sound like class war to the general public” do you mean things like:
"If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
"If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
15
@13 no, that's not class warfare. That's reminding people that they are not completely unto themselves; we all depend on one another and even if you're carving totem poles in the market for a living, your business relies on a system other people put in place.
Not class warfare.
Not class warfare.
16
"The election is...going to be decided on who is going to turn the economy around, and who is going to bring jobs back to America." Because Romney has such a good record with bringing jobs to the U.S.
17
@13 Seriously? Is that the best you could've come up with?
A quote that doesn't even sound half as terrible, even out of context as it was?
I know you're a contrarian, but that's weak even for you.
A quote that doesn't even sound half as terrible, even out of context as it was?
I know you're a contrarian, but that's weak even for you.
18
Mitt is now sending his wife out to defend him. He is desperate.
@13, President Obama quote is analogous to John Donne's famous line that, "No man is an island." Mittens and crews' statements are analogous to Marie Antoinette's famous line, "Let them eat cake."
I hope you can comprehend the difference.
@13, President Obama quote is analogous to John Donne's famous line that, "No man is an island." Mittens and crews' statements are analogous to Marie Antoinette's famous line, "Let them eat cake."
I hope you can comprehend the difference.
19
@15
Ha!... What ever.
Sounds like class warfare to me. He's just saying "Look you guys, those rich people over there, they all got rich off of you. Not by thier own effort. You deserve your "fair share" of that wealth."
Ha!... What ever.
Sounds like class warfare to me. He's just saying "Look you guys, those rich people over there, they all got rich off of you. Not by thier own effort. You deserve your "fair share" of that wealth."
20
I think family comments and behavior should be generally disregarded: remember Michelle Obama made that disgusting crack about Hillary Clinton ("how can she control the country if she can't even control her own husband?") to uproarious applause when Barack was running. That comment was far, far worse than saying "You people," though it's equally indicative of what's said behind closed doors.
21
@19 that would be terrible to remind large-business owners that they are responsible to the people who helped make their businesses successful and purchased their products.
23
@18,
Marie Antoinette never said that. The phrase's first appearance in print is from a book written when Marie was nine years old.
Marie Antoinette never said that. The phrase's first appearance in print is from a book written when Marie was nine years old.
25
@20 cite or it didn't happen.
It's all about feeding the narrative. Was Bush's "They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we" a Freudian slip? Only if you already disliked Bush and distrusted his motives. Otherwise people filled in the idea that he clearly meant "in order to stop them" or something like that.
Similarly, "you didn't build that" is a minor rhetorical gaffe to liberals who read the context and know "that" was intended to mean "infrastructure." Only Republicans who already "know" Obama is anti-business assume "that" means "your own business."
"You people" reads very differently when it's Ann Romney -- where it feeds an existing narrative that both of them are aloof, out-of-touch aristocrats -- and when it's an Internet meme where "Paul Krugman is tired of trying to reason with you people."
It's all about feeding the narrative. Was Bush's "They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we" a Freudian slip? Only if you already disliked Bush and distrusted his motives. Otherwise people filled in the idea that he clearly meant "in order to stop them" or something like that.
Similarly, "you didn't build that" is a minor rhetorical gaffe to liberals who read the context and know "that" was intended to mean "infrastructure." Only Republicans who already "know" Obama is anti-business assume "that" means "your own business."
"You people" reads very differently when it's Ann Romney -- where it feeds an existing narrative that both of them are aloof, out-of-touch aristocrats -- and when it's an Internet meme where "Paul Krugman is tired of trying to reason with you people."
26
@2: Ann Romney removes herself from the "innocent bystander" label as soon as she schedules interviews with reporters and opens her pie hole.
27
@11: the GOP is going to have to take the first step towards civility, because they created this situation.
yes, they did. ask newt gingrich.
now a 77K business deduction for a horse is supposed to be off limits because Ann has MS? fuck that.
more than ever, i'm convinced that a Mormon presidency would be a disaster for this nation.
yes, they did. ask newt gingrich.
now a 77K business deduction for a horse is supposed to be off limits because Ann has MS? fuck that.
more than ever, i'm convinced that a Mormon presidency would be a disaster for this nation.
28
@27 I agree.
In Utah at the moment, and the LDS elders are salivating over the possibility of 1) control of the White House and 2) legitimizing their religion by having a Mo prez.
The Gentiles in this state can tell you all about the problems of church governing state and having the media controlled by the church, though honestly, it's not that far removed from the tea bagger and right-wing extremist policies that have been implemented in other states like AZ and Lousiana.
In Utah at the moment, and the LDS elders are salivating over the possibility of 1) control of the White House and 2) legitimizing their religion by having a Mo prez.
The Gentiles in this state can tell you all about the problems of church governing state and having the media controlled by the church, though honestly, it's not that far removed from the tea bagger and right-wing extremist policies that have been implemented in other states like AZ and Lousiana.
29
@19
"Sounds like class warfare to me."
You may not be the authority that you believe you are.
"He's just saying ..."
No, that would be you saying that and trying to attribute your statement to him.
He said what he said and if you need to read his entire comment then it is available online.
"Sounds like class warfare to me."
You may not be the authority that you believe you are.
"He's just saying ..."
No, that would be you saying that and trying to attribute your statement to him.
He said what he said and if you need to read his entire comment then it is available online.
30
I'm going to throw this out there but my guess is that the GOP insiders are telling Romney to be tough on not releasing his tax forms while saying they are going to publicly push for him to do so.
One of his many weaknesses is he appears to the base as being soft. So I think this may just be an act to make Romney look like he's tough and standing up to everyone..even his own party. It makes him Mavericky.
One of his many weaknesses is he appears to the base as being soft. So I think this may just be an act to make Romney look like he's tough and standing up to everyone..even his own party. It makes him Mavericky.
31
@19 -
"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that (roads and bridges)"
But then you knew that already, you silly butthole-faced douchebag.
"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that (roads and bridges)"
But then you knew that already, you silly butthole-faced douchebag.
32
“Facing questions about why she and other top Congressional officials won’t release their tax returns, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) downplayed her previous demands for presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney to release his, calling the issue a distraction.”
33
@31
Bullshit.
Here's what he said: “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
"Business" is the noun that directly precedes the pronoun "that."
Furthermore, “roads and bridges” is plural, “that” is singular. If Obama meant “roads and bridges” he would have said “You didn’t build those.”
It’s ludicrous to even suggest that such a “brilliant orator” can’t grasp basic grammar.
Bullshit.
Here's what he said: “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
"Business" is the noun that directly precedes the pronoun "that."
Furthermore, “roads and bridges” is plural, “that” is singular. If Obama meant “roads and bridges” he would have said “You didn’t build those.”
It’s ludicrous to even suggest that such a “brilliant orator” can’t grasp basic grammar.
34
I like how Ann mentions that they give 10% of their income to their church every year as a reason not to suspect Mitt of wrongdoing even though "as a Mormon, Romney is expected pay a tithe, or 10% of his annual income, to the Church of the Latter Day Saints."
Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwindurgy/2…
Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwindurgy/2…
35
@33
"It’s ludicrous to even suggest that such a 'brilliant orator' can’t grasp basic grammar."
I think that you cannot grasp the context that he specified.
But that is because you do not want to.
Not that he did not make it clear enough for you.
Did you build the roads? No.
Did you build the bridges? No.
Did you build the "unbelievable American system"? No.
Did you build the Internet? No.
Were you the teacher who taught you? No.
Five specific examples were not enough context for you.
Even when he spelled it out for you, you still claim that what he said must have been something that you want him to have said.
What he said was:
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
"It’s ludicrous to even suggest that such a 'brilliant orator' can’t grasp basic grammar."
I think that you cannot grasp the context that he specified.
But that is because you do not want to.
Not that he did not make it clear enough for you.
Did you build the roads? No.
Did you build the bridges? No.
Did you build the "unbelievable American system"? No.
Did you build the Internet? No.
Were you the teacher who taught you? No.
Five specific examples were not enough context for you.
Even when he spelled it out for you, you still claim that what he said must have been something that you want him to have said.
What he said was:
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
37
@35
Yes.
My tax dollars paid for the roads.
My tax dollars paid for the bridge
My family, which settled her in the 1630's, counts 4 signers to the declaration of independence, has given active service in every conflict back to the revolution and came "west" in the 1850's with nothing but ambition absolutely did build the "unbelievable American system".
My tax dollars paid for the first draft of the Internet, and my industry built it into what it is today.
My tax dollars pay the wages of public school teachers and my charitable donations subsidize several private school educations each year.
I would venture to guess that each year I personally pay for more road and bridge miles, and more teachers, than any of you 99%'ers that are still included in the ever shrinking class of people called tax payers.
The government sure as shit didn't do those things... Nor did the nearly 50% of freeloaders who pay no taxes at all (yet collect "refunds"). Without people like me and my family (and our businesses) none of these things would have happened.
Yes.
My tax dollars paid for the roads.
My tax dollars paid for the bridge
My family, which settled her in the 1630's, counts 4 signers to the declaration of independence, has given active service in every conflict back to the revolution and came "west" in the 1850's with nothing but ambition absolutely did build the "unbelievable American system".
My tax dollars paid for the first draft of the Internet, and my industry built it into what it is today.
My tax dollars pay the wages of public school teachers and my charitable donations subsidize several private school educations each year.
I would venture to guess that each year I personally pay for more road and bridge miles, and more teachers, than any of you 99%'ers that are still included in the ever shrinking class of people called tax payers.
The government sure as shit didn't do those things... Nor did the nearly 50% of freeloaders who pay no taxes at all (yet collect "refunds"). Without people like me and my family (and our businesses) none of these things would have happened.
38
@37
"Yes."
No you did not build any of those roads.
Do not claim that you did.
"My tax dollars paid for the roads."
No.
Your tax dollars paid for a portion of the roads.
A very, very small portion.
Which is exactly what Obama said when he said:
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
But no. You want to claim that you did it all yourself.
You built those roads yourself. No, you did not.
You built those bridges yourself. No, you did not.
You built the "unbelievable American system" yourself. No, you did not.
You built the Internet yourself. No, you did not.
You were 100% self-educated. No you were not.
But you keep claiming that you did.
When your actual contributions to all of those were so insignificant as to be lost in the millions of contributions by millions of others who do not claim to have built them themselves.
"The government sure as shit didn't do those things... "
Of course the government did not pay to build the roads.
You built the roads.
Yourself.
The nasty old government had nothing to do with it.
You built them.
All by yourself.
"Yes."
No you did not build any of those roads.
Do not claim that you did.
"My tax dollars paid for the roads."
No.
Your tax dollars paid for a portion of the roads.
A very, very small portion.
Which is exactly what Obama said when he said:
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
But no. You want to claim that you did it all yourself.
You built those roads yourself. No, you did not.
You built those bridges yourself. No, you did not.
You built the "unbelievable American system" yourself. No, you did not.
You built the Internet yourself. No, you did not.
You were 100% self-educated. No you were not.
But you keep claiming that you did.
When your actual contributions to all of those were so insignificant as to be lost in the millions of contributions by millions of others who do not claim to have built them themselves.
"The government sure as shit didn't do those things... "
Of course the government did not pay to build the roads.
You built the roads.
Yourself.
The nasty old government had nothing to do with it.
You built them.
All by yourself.
39
@38
Never said I did it alone
Just said I did (do) more than most
And that without people like me, and the businesses we run, none of it would be possible.
Never said I did it alone
Just said I did (do) more than most
And that without people like me, and the businesses we run, none of it would be possible.
40
@39
"Never said I did it alone"
The question was:
"Did you build the roads? No"
Your reply:
"Yes."
You either built them or you did not build them.
I say you did not build them.
You want to argue with that? Fine.
"And that without people like me, and the businesses we run, none of it would be possible."
And who, specifically, are these "people like" you?
Because if you're talking about people who pay taxes then you've just said exactly what Obama said.
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
Except that YOU claim to have built those roads YOURSELF and YOU say that Obama was wrong.
But you did not build those roads.
The government collected taxes and hired companies to build those roads.
Exactly as Obama said.
But you say that Obama is wrong.
Because you built those roads and bridges yourself.
"Never said I did it alone"
The question was:
"Did you build the roads? No"
Your reply:
"Yes."
You either built them or you did not build them.
I say you did not build them.
You want to argue with that? Fine.
"And that without people like me, and the businesses we run, none of it would be possible."
And who, specifically, are these "people like" you?
Because if you're talking about people who pay taxes then you've just said exactly what Obama said.
"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
Except that YOU claim to have built those roads YOURSELF and YOU say that Obama was wrong.
But you did not build those roads.
The government collected taxes and hired companies to build those roads.
Exactly as Obama said.
But you say that Obama is wrong.
Because you built those roads and bridges yourself.
41
@40
Obama is wrong. He sees government as the central factor of the American equation, and all other things in service to, or arrising out of, it. I believe the exact opposite is true.
And yes, I mean tax payers. A group that now includes barely half of Americans and who's burden is carried disproportionately by its most industrious 2%.
I understand that liberals hold individual achievement in contempt, preferring the "glory" of the masses. (From each according to their ability and to each according to their need and all that bullshit). I find that abhorrent.
None of this changes what Mr. Obama actually said and that it is incredibly tenuouse to try to say that "that" refers to anything other than "businesses".
Roads and bridges would have been "those".
Personally, I find it refreshing to hear him own his true beliefs.
Obama is wrong. He sees government as the central factor of the American equation, and all other things in service to, or arrising out of, it. I believe the exact opposite is true.
And yes, I mean tax payers. A group that now includes barely half of Americans and who's burden is carried disproportionately by its most industrious 2%.
I understand that liberals hold individual achievement in contempt, preferring the "glory" of the masses. (From each according to their ability and to each according to their need and all that bullshit). I find that abhorrent.
None of this changes what Mr. Obama actually said and that it is incredibly tenuouse to try to say that "that" refers to anything other than "businesses".
Roads and bridges would have been "those".
Personally, I find it refreshing to hear him own his true beliefs.
42
@41
"Obama is wrong."
You can keep claiming that you built those roads and bridges but I'm still going to say that you did not. You didn't work a single ounce of asphalt or concrete. You did not build them.
"And yes, I mean tax payers."
Well that means that Obama's statement was correct.
And you're claim that he was wrong was wrong.
"A group that now includes barely half of Americans and who's burden is carried disproportionately by its most industrious 2%."
Wealth is taxed.
If the majority of wealth is owned by a minority of people, then their tax rate would be higher than the rate paid by people who have less wealth.
Or do you not understand basic math either?
"None of this changes what Mr. Obama actually said ..."
So, again, you're back to claiming that Obama was wrong because YOU built all those roads yourself.
Even though you did not.
"Roads and bridges would have been 'those'."
Again, context. I can cut and paste it for you.
Did you build the roads? No.
Did you build the bridges? No.
Did you build the "unbelievable American system"? No.
Did you build the Internet? No.
Were you the teacher who taught you? No.
Five specifics that he mentioned that formed the context of his statement.
But you have problems with context just as you have problems with math and English.
No, you did not build those roads and bridges.
"Obama is wrong."
You can keep claiming that you built those roads and bridges but I'm still going to say that you did not. You didn't work a single ounce of asphalt or concrete. You did not build them.
"And yes, I mean tax payers."
Well that means that Obama's statement was correct.
And you're claim that he was wrong was wrong.
"A group that now includes barely half of Americans and who's burden is carried disproportionately by its most industrious 2%."
Wealth is taxed.
If the majority of wealth is owned by a minority of people, then their tax rate would be higher than the rate paid by people who have less wealth.
Or do you not understand basic math either?
"None of this changes what Mr. Obama actually said ..."
So, again, you're back to claiming that Obama was wrong because YOU built all those roads yourself.
Even though you did not.
"Roads and bridges would have been 'those'."
Again, context. I can cut and paste it for you.
Did you build the roads? No.
Did you build the bridges? No.
Did you build the "unbelievable American system"? No.
Did you build the Internet? No.
Were you the teacher who taught you? No.
Five specifics that he mentioned that formed the context of his statement.
But you have problems with context just as you have problems with math and English.
No, you did not build those roads and bridges.
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