Slog
News & ArtsFriday, July 13, 2012
Film Morgan Freeman Is a Black American
Posted by Charles Mudede on Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 8:50 AM
Freeman has taken well-aimed pot-shots at PC linguistic niceties – "I hate the phrase 'African American'," he says, "because 'black' is beautiful. One syllable versus seven" – and other sacred cows such as Black History Month, which he sees as a form of temporal segregation, with blacks ghettoised within February, the Tuesday of the year. "I've said it before, black history is American history, they're completely intertwined."I dislike "African American' for another reason: Africa also has a white population. It therefore makes more sense to say Morgan Freeman is a black American, and Charlize Theron is a white African; Leonardo DiCaprio is a white American, and Djimon Hounsou is a black African.
1
In his wonderful, "America, The Book" Jon Stewart notes that, had John Kerry won the election back in 2004, his wife Theresa Heinz-Kerry (a wealthy white lady born in Mozambique) would have been our first African-American First Lady.
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Even “black” or “white” lacks accuracy, but is preferable to “African American”. If one is an American citizen born in Africa, like Obama, or emigrated and became a citizen, then one is an African American.
5
And I completely agree with his sentiment on Black History Month. It’s just history. Instead of setting aside a month to discuss notable historical fixtures who were black, let’s make more of an effort to include these notable contributors to the world in the general curriculum in schools.
Also, let’s include more women than just Madame Curie and Eleanor Roosevelt in our history classes, m’kay?
Also, let’s include more women than just Madame Curie and Eleanor Roosevelt in our history classes, m’kay?
6
I think it is one of the funniest things when Americans call black people from any nation African-Americans.
A couple years ago, the NFL put out some kind of document (memory fuzzy), where they had used a find and replace to take out all instances of "black" instead inserting "African-American," which led to the colors of certain pieces of mechandise to be labeled "African-American"
"Hey man, you got that sweatshirt in African-American, or just navy blue?"
A couple years ago, the NFL put out some kind of document (memory fuzzy), where they had used a find and replace to take out all instances of "black" instead inserting "African-American," which led to the colors of certain pieces of mechandise to be labeled "African-American"
"Hey man, you got that sweatshirt in African-American, or just navy blue?"
8
How about we just let people define themselves, as we ought to do?
I was born in Romania. I was born a citizen. My father was a naturalized American citizen, from Hungary. I don't have an American birth certificate; just a Romanian one. I have a nice naturalization certificate. I've never held a Romanian passport, and my Romania doesn't even exist anymore. I've had an American passport since around age 3, for thirty-plus years.
What am I?
I'm just American, because I say so. If I chose to say white ex-Byzantine Catholic hetero Romanian-American, I could, and I could be counted as any of them, but who cares? If someone says they're X, they're X. We honor gender identifications, for example. Same principle here.
I was born in Romania. I was born a citizen. My father was a naturalized American citizen, from Hungary. I don't have an American birth certificate; just a Romanian one. I have a nice naturalization certificate. I've never held a Romanian passport, and my Romania doesn't even exist anymore. I've had an American passport since around age 3, for thirty-plus years.
What am I?
I'm just American, because I say so. If I chose to say white ex-Byzantine Catholic hetero Romanian-American, I could, and I could be counted as any of them, but who cares? If someone says they're X, they're X. We honor gender identifications, for example. Same principle here.
10
@7 Was I supposed to put a "just kidding" or "/snark" tag on that or is it clear that I was making a crack?
12
@10/4 I think so, yes. I was unaware of the sarcasm in your post and was about to post something similar to @7 until I saw your second post...
13
From what I've seen and heard, actual African-Americans (ie. African immigrants) want very little to do with low class, ig'nant urban blacks and want their kids to have nothing to do with hippity-hoppity culture.
15
I had a friend in college who HATED the term "African American" because people kept calling her that when her parents were from Jamaica. She always thought the the African American label was lazy. A "white peoples term," as she used to say.
16
I have a coworker who is African-American (born in Africa) who is neither black nor white; he's of Indian extraction. People of color works. America is somewhat unusual though in the totality of our "black" distinction; we all know people who are "black" who have lighter skin than some swarthier white people, because in America you are black if you have one drop of black blood.
I was just reading about Brazil, which is by no means the multiracial paradise they like to pretend to be, but they do have a very different take on the subject than we do. I was particularly struck by the list of more than 60 names the author was able to come up with for different shades of brown, from "black" to "white" with almost infinitesimal shades in-between, including negro, preto, mulatto, zambo, brancarão, criollo. He was told by some others that there were in actuality more than 300 such words -- and people don't really see a connection between them: mulattos are not thought of as black. One Brazilian asked him in the 70s why Muhammad Ali was considered a leader of the Black Power movement when he was obviously not black but mulatto? Even Martin Luther King, Jr. wouldn't have been considered a black man in Brazil. Which is extremely odd to our ears.
But in the US as well as Brazil, and elsewhere, it is critically important to both racists and race victims to make some kind of distinction: either for purposes of exclusion or purposes of survival. Anyone who says, like @2, that we should just ignore our differences is a liar and a hypocrite.
It's also important to remember that "black" in every part of the world means not just "African" but "part of the diaspora", part of the forced expatriation that still resonates in the rest of the world today, in ways that, say, being Italian or even Jewish does not. Even black people who never left Africa during slave days felt that disruption, and the Colonial one that came after it.
More...
I was just reading about Brazil, which is by no means the multiracial paradise they like to pretend to be, but they do have a very different take on the subject than we do. I was particularly struck by the list of more than 60 names the author was able to come up with for different shades of brown, from "black" to "white" with almost infinitesimal shades in-between, including negro, preto, mulatto, zambo, brancarão, criollo. He was told by some others that there were in actuality more than 300 such words -- and people don't really see a connection between them: mulattos are not thought of as black. One Brazilian asked him in the 70s why Muhammad Ali was considered a leader of the Black Power movement when he was obviously not black but mulatto? Even Martin Luther King, Jr. wouldn't have been considered a black man in Brazil. Which is extremely odd to our ears.
But in the US as well as Brazil, and elsewhere, it is critically important to both racists and race victims to make some kind of distinction: either for purposes of exclusion or purposes of survival. Anyone who says, like @2, that we should just ignore our differences is a liar and a hypocrite.
It's also important to remember that "black" in every part of the world means not just "African" but "part of the diaspora", part of the forced expatriation that still resonates in the rest of the world today, in ways that, say, being Italian or even Jewish does not. Even black people who never left Africa during slave days felt that disruption, and the Colonial one that came after it.
17
Thank you for saying so Charles! The term is one of my pet peeves. I work with many people from other countries and am uncomfortable declaring them American. People also often ask me what somebody looks like, as in I am pointing down the hall and they are going looking for them. I say something like "the black woman in the floral scrub top." It seems both stupid to pretend that she is necessarily American and equally stupid to be so politically correct as to pretend that it isn't a distinctive descriptor. My liberal heart takes pause but I have never met a black person offended by being called so.
19
@18, except for when he voices those visa credit card commercials. Of course I would probably be the voice of a credit card too. Gotta make money somewhere.
20
Saw "Prometheus" last night. Charlize Theron does a great job of playing a cold, somewhat-villainous type. Remember those years when the movies were gleefully overusing white South African stock characters for villains? Theron as Miss Vickers commands many of the scenes she's in, although she's more of a flawed character than a true villain.
23
After moving back to Mississippi, Freeman found out the local high school was still having segregated proms (till 2008, geez). He footed the bill for their first integrated prom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prom_Night…
24
Americans go absolutely bananas about issues of race.
I agree with Mr. Mudede. Truthfully, even the terms "black" and "white" are reductive of the real nuance in one's ethnological history, but nevertheless "white" and "black" are very real identifiers and discriminators in American politics. So still to discard them utterly for their reductive quality would be insane.
I agree with Mr. Mudede. Truthfully, even the terms "black" and "white" are reductive of the real nuance in one's ethnological history, but nevertheless "white" and "black" are very real identifiers and discriminators in American politics. So still to discard them utterly for their reductive quality would be insane.
25
"Africa also has a white population"
And, sadly, lots of "African Americans" don't even know this.
Seattle's very own uber-white Dave Matthews is African American.
I've had Asians refer to me as "Caucasian" to be "respectful" in the same way that whites use "African American." Ridiculous. Then again, if I were to turn around and call that Asian "yellow," it's a slur. The rules are complicated here!
And, sadly, lots of "African Americans" don't even know this.
Seattle's very own uber-white Dave Matthews is African American.
I've had Asians refer to me as "Caucasian" to be "respectful" in the same way that whites use "African American." Ridiculous. Then again, if I were to turn around and call that Asian "yellow," it's a slur. The rules are complicated here!
26
@22,
I heard from your roommate his ex-wife's a whore and has been putting that $63/hour she's been making toward smack & crack. That lady's BAD news. I'll check out that website though!
I heard from your roommate his ex-wife's a whore and has been putting that $63/hour she's been making toward smack & crack. That lady's BAD news. I'll check out that website though!
28
Maybe while we're at it we could eliminate affirmative action and treat everyone the same. OH MY GOD! CUT OUT MY TONGUE!!!!
(Let's just carry on lowering standards until everything is "fair".)
(Let's just carry on lowering standards until everything is "fair".)
29
@24 I think it's more of a human issue versus an american one. Xenophobia appears to have very deep roots, Scientific American has a blog post today on the possibility that it might relate to staying away from illnesses.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gues…
We americans have our own unique flavor, but it seems to be a "vestigial tail" that's hardwired to our emotions. It gives us this convoluted terminology for race because it is an emotional issue, not rational. It's what got a large group of voters to switch their voting patterns after '68. Tickling (or thwacking) our monkey brain is effective, but not nearly as healthy as when we were monkeys. Considering how dynamically the 'proper' terminology has changed in the past century, I think, how inefficiently we had the situation, as well as the language.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gues…
We americans have our own unique flavor, but it seems to be a "vestigial tail" that's hardwired to our emotions. It gives us this convoluted terminology for race because it is an emotional issue, not rational. It's what got a large group of voters to switch their voting patterns after '68. Tickling (or thwacking) our monkey brain is effective, but not nearly as healthy as when we were monkeys. Considering how dynamically the 'proper' terminology has changed in the past century, I think, how inefficiently we had the situation, as well as the language.
30
@28 you've got to the one the least original trolls on the Slog. With a name like your's, one would hope for something so much better. Alas, you're more boring than a Mudede trolling rural folks post.
31
@30: I had been marveling at how bland and ineffective that particular troll is, as since his first post here a month ago no one has responded to him (as I have seen) until today.
I swear, this blog has the most obvious and unoriginal trolls I have ever seen. At least Seattleblues is (was) smart enough to actually use his brain to troll properly.
I swear, this blog has the most obvious and unoriginal trolls I have ever seen. At least Seattleblues is (was) smart enough to actually use his brain to troll properly.
32
What do we call Idris Elba? African-European? Eurafrican? Why not just call him Idris Elba, or maybe - that dude from The Wire?
33
Why the distinction. No one goes around saying the white population is European American all the time. Whites just seem to be "American".
Here in Canada we don't use the term African Canadian but do use the term Indo Canadian and Asian for all people looking "Asian" even if born here. Then there is Native American for our native population who are Canadian. So we all seem to have a labelling problem when it comes to non white. White Canadians are just Canadian and are not usually delineated right away like non whites are.
But then we Canadians are American too which we don't ever say at all except as a technicality in geography class. Everyone from South America is American, also Central Americans. But the Population of the Americas that belong to the United States identify as American.
So it seems people from Canada of A and "U.S. of A". have a strange labelling problem. But then I am a Brit with Irish Scott and Welsh decedents with Canadian citizenship. Who do I want to be today? Brit Canadian, Euro Canadian, just Canadian, North American, white Canadian.....??
Here in Canada we don't use the term African Canadian but do use the term Indo Canadian and Asian for all people looking "Asian" even if born here. Then there is Native American for our native population who are Canadian. So we all seem to have a labelling problem when it comes to non white. White Canadians are just Canadian and are not usually delineated right away like non whites are.
But then we Canadians are American too which we don't ever say at all except as a technicality in geography class. Everyone from South America is American, also Central Americans. But the Population of the Americas that belong to the United States identify as American.
So it seems people from Canada of A and "U.S. of A". have a strange labelling problem. But then I am a Brit with Irish Scott and Welsh decedents with Canadian citizenship. Who do I want to be today? Brit Canadian, Euro Canadian, just Canadian, North American, white Canadian.....??
34
While I use "black American" pretty regularly when writing and speaking, I will now and forever flinch when someone uses "black" as a noun. Just like I can barely tolerate someone using "females" when they mean "women".
35
@33 hmmm, I would prefer to discriminate based on province of residence. I'm from Alberta and that is my Gad dern right*! Also; Oil!
*please note; accent may not be exactly as portrayed.
*please note; accent may not be exactly as portrayed.
38
I don't like "person of color" because it's just colored person in reverse, which I also despise. Being an American of Hispanic heritage, I prefer "American."
I am not even quite sure of my real heritage: Spanish/French/Jewish by way of Spain to what is now Texas. I grew up in Michigan as did my mother and my father from age 13.
I have never been to any Latin American country and my Spanish language skills were learned in school and college.
I am American.
I am not even quite sure of my real heritage: Spanish/French/Jewish by way of Spain to what is now Texas. I grew up in Michigan as did my mother and my father from age 13.
I have never been to any Latin American country and my Spanish language skills were learned in school and college.
I am American.
40
@8
Great comment. If Morgan doesn't like the term "African American", he doesn't have to use it. If President Obama likes the term "African American" to describe himself, that's his business.
Not sure why this is an issue.
But I agree with Morgan that Black American history is simply American history and should be taught and spoken of as such.
Great comment. If Morgan doesn't like the term "African American", he doesn't have to use it. If President Obama likes the term "African American" to describe himself, that's his business.
Not sure why this is an issue.
But I agree with Morgan that Black American history is simply American history and should be taught and spoken of as such.
41
What happened to all those folks a while back that were claiming that using black was an insult??? Where did that movement go?
42
Why do African immigrants try so hard to distance themselves and their kids from African Americans?
45
Hey, I've got a great idea. Why don't we just describe everyone's skin tone by their Pantone color? Or Dermablend shade?
I mean, you know... I'm "white", but my skin isn't actually white, just some sort of beige/tan/pinkish color. Fuck, if you ever saw a person who was actually paper-white, you'd freak.
I mean, you know... I'm "white", but my skin isn't actually white, just some sort of beige/tan/pinkish color. Fuck, if you ever saw a person who was actually paper-white, you'd freak.
46
Yea we should all just be Americans.
On a side note Ian Smith was a White African, he was also 10 times the man Chucko or his dictator supporting father ever was.
On a side note Ian Smith was a White African, he was also 10 times the man Chucko or his dictator supporting father ever was.
48
I remember when they found a severed black leg in the aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing, the press described the leg as belonging to an African American.
Pretty amazing forensics, that!
Pretty amazing forensics, that!
49
@32 - We call Idris Elba the New Hotness.
@25 - Recently when I was in Japan, my host referred to one of my travelling companions as "Caucasian" - she just happened to be black is all. It seemed to be used interchangebly with "Westerner" with some of the folks I met. They were trying to be respectful, which my companion appreciated even as she laughed at the absurdity of it all.
@34 - Oh thank you for reminding me that I HATE being referred to "a female." A female WHAT?
@25 - Recently when I was in Japan, my host referred to one of my travelling companions as "Caucasian" - she just happened to be black is all. It seemed to be used interchangebly with "Westerner" with some of the folks I met. They were trying to be respectful, which my companion appreciated even as she laughed at the absurdity of it all.
@34 - Oh thank you for reminding me that I HATE being referred to "a female." A female WHAT?
50
Okay, what's wrong with calling someone a Female? I'm not being a troll, I'm genuinely confused. Why would that word be offensive?
51
@33, Canadians really call their own first-nations people Native Americans, not Native Canadians?!? ( my "Native American friend sez most Indians want to go back to being called Indians,they don't like "Native American" anymore. ) I'm old enough to have seen these words change, and it's so funny, I remember when black people were called "colored", and that was considered proper and respectful. Then I recall when they really wanted to be called African-American, and Indians really wanted to be called Native Americans. Now they've both gone back on those terms.
52
@51, Indians never really took to "Native Americans." It was an externally applied name that people adopted and Indians put up with. Now mostly you hear "Native" or more aptly, the name of the tribe someone comes from. I remember when it first started to take hold in the late 80s to early 90s. I suspect that the term evolved with "African American" and "Asian American" and "people of color." Patricia Locke, a Lakota MacArthur fellow said of the term "be careful of subtle changes in language. The US didn't make treaties with Native Americans, they made them with American Indian tribes." And in her view, a shift like that makes Indians and thus tribes simply another ethnic group--which is simply not the case. Tribes at least in the Continental US have treaties with the US Govt that is predicated on the recognition of the exchange of property for the retention of rights enjoyed prior to the existence of the US as an entity. Many tribes around the country still include "Indian nation" as part of their official name, like "Lac du Flambeau of Lake Superior tribe of Chippewa Indians" or "Spokane Tribe of Indians" or "Central Council of Tlingit and Haida Indian Tribes of Alaska."
And I have never heard of Canadian Natives referring to themselves as Native Americans ever. They refer to themselves as "1st Nations" and it is prefaced with the specific 1st Nations such as "Musqueam 1st Nations" or "Mohawk 1st Nations" as examples.
And for people who are so hopelessly puzzled by the additional nomenclature and the seeming resistance to assimilation to just being a "regular American" is because as we have seen, there is always a parsing of that term from the dominant culture about what constitutes "American." It is assumed to be white and it is assumed that if you aren't white you might not be American (for example the idiotic fixation on Obama's place of birth).
More...
And I have never heard of Canadian Natives referring to themselves as Native Americans ever. They refer to themselves as "1st Nations" and it is prefaced with the specific 1st Nations such as "Musqueam 1st Nations" or "Mohawk 1st Nations" as examples.
And for people who are so hopelessly puzzled by the additional nomenclature and the seeming resistance to assimilation to just being a "regular American" is because as we have seen, there is always a parsing of that term from the dominant culture about what constitutes "American." It is assumed to be white and it is assumed that if you aren't white you might not be American (for example the idiotic fixation on Obama's place of birth).
53
@50 - It is not offensive except that it sounds stupid. A female WHAT? A male WHAT? "Female" and "male" are adjectives and I hate that popular usage has made them synonyms to woman and man. Drives me nuts.
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