Slog
News & ArtsFriday, June 29, 2012
Crime / Bikes Speaking of Good Deeds...
Posted by Cienna Madrid on Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 1:50 PM
... Here's just one more and then I'll shut the fuck up.
A good friend of mine, Jess, is searching for witnesses to a bike wreck that took place on 12th Ave at roughly 5:45 p.m. on June 8.
For a full rundown of the accident, check out Seattle Bike Blog. The long and short of it is, Jess was riding southbound in the bike lane near Seattle University, headed towards Marion Street, when a driver opened his door into the bike lane and doored her. The problem is, she passed out briefly when her helmeted head hit the ground and admits that the details of the accident are fuzzy (although she distinctly remembers being doored), so police decided to take the driver's word—corroborated by his wife/passenger—on what happened.
Their story basically is, "she spontaneously fell next to our open car door."
Without witnesses, the driver won't be held responsible for fracturing Jess's wrist and elbow, or for damaging her bike. So: If you happened to be around SU on June 8 and see a pretty girl eat asphalt after being doored by a car, please email jessmack@gmail.com.
1
How does one "spontaneously fall down" on a bicycle next to an open car door? Is it like those fainting goats or something?
2
@1
I suppose we're lucky he didn't shoot her and claim he was standing his ground after she started following him.
I can't help, since I wasn't there, but wouldn't there have been any evidence on the bike or on his door of an impact? Or have I watched too much Star Trek and CSI?
I suppose we're lucky he didn't shoot her and claim he was standing his ground after she started following him.
I can't help, since I wasn't there, but wouldn't there have been any evidence on the bike or on his door of an impact? Or have I watched too much Star Trek and CSI?
3
@1 - As a driver, I have actually had someone fall right next to my car door. I was getting ready to get out of my car, looked back in my side mirror, saw a cyclist coming, and was waiting for him to pass. He about 2 feet from my door saw me looking like I was going to get out, and, afraid I was going to door him, he made a quick turn, slipped and hit the concrete. I got out of the car and helped him up, and fortunately he was mostly ok. He apparently had been doored like a month ago and was extra twitchy about it. I made sure he was ok and then he rode off.
Very strange experience.
Very strange experience.
6
@4: You are wrong. SMC 11.58.050:
"No person shall enter, leave, or open the door of a motor vehicle on the
side adjacent to moving traffic unless and until it is reasonably safe to do
so, and can be done without interfering with the movement of other traffic,
nor shall any person leave a door open on the side of a vehicle adjacent to
moving traffic for a period of time longer than necessary to load or unload
passengers. (RCW 46.61.620)"
http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/n…
"No person shall enter, leave, or open the door of a motor vehicle on the
side adjacent to moving traffic unless and until it is reasonably safe to do
so, and can be done without interfering with the movement of other traffic,
nor shall any person leave a door open on the side of a vehicle adjacent to
moving traffic for a period of time longer than necessary to load or unload
passengers. (RCW 46.61.620)"
http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/n…
7
You'd think the door would have had some kind of mark or damage from being hit by the bike. It seems plausible that she could have wiped out trying to avoid contact.
8
#4, Wrong. A car occupant is legally required to check for people biking before opening a car door.
9
@2,7, there wasn't a mark on the door that police could find but if the driver hit her body (as opposed to her handlebars) it wouldn't necessarily leave a mark. No potholes or road detritus, either.
10
@7 You underestimate the sturdiness of car doors. The bicyclist or the bicycle, on the other hand, may have signs of impact damage. I got doored once, and had a vicious bruise on my breastbone from the top corner of the door. If I was going any faster, there would have been blood all over everything. I might even be dead considering the impact point was directly over my heart. Luckily, I'm out of shape and was puffing uphill slowly.
11
I'm sure it is possible that there could have been impact that would not have left evidence on the door.
But something bothers me about this need for there to have been an actual collision. If the driver opened the door into the bike lane and the biker had to swerve to avoid the door and then wiped out as a result (without having hit the door) shouldn't the driver STILL be at fault? OR does the biker in this situation actually have to choose to hit the door in order to have legal standing?
But something bothers me about this need for there to have been an actual collision. If the driver opened the door into the bike lane and the biker had to swerve to avoid the door and then wiped out as a result (without having hit the door) shouldn't the driver STILL be at fault? OR does the biker in this situation actually have to choose to hit the door in order to have legal standing?
12
but i agree, door could totally open as she is passing by and could lightly (from the door's perspective) clip her foot. with zero consequence for the door and tragic consequence for biker.
15
Just because the police don't have enough evidence to arrest him doesn't mean she can't sue and get her medical bills and bike paid for.
16
@6
Pedestrians are also legally required to not jaywalk. But that doesn't mean you're allowed to just mow them down. Drivers of cars (and even -- newsflash -- bicyclists!) are required to stop if they can, even for jawalkers. Funny how bicyclists only care what the law says when they are using it against somebody else.
Now run along and cork an intersection "because it's safer." Maybe blow through a couple red lights and stop signs on your way. Because you can. And what the fuck, right?
Pedestrians are also legally required to not jaywalk. But that doesn't mean you're allowed to just mow them down. Drivers of cars (and even -- newsflash -- bicyclists!) are required to stop if they can, even for jawalkers. Funny how bicyclists only care what the law says when they are using it against somebody else.
Now run along and cork an intersection "because it's safer." Maybe blow through a couple red lights and stop signs on your way. Because you can. And what the fuck, right?
17
@16- Were you replying to @6, because while you adopted an insulting tone, you didn't address the point and instead complained about of irrelevant shit.
When you open your car door, you're responsible for what happens. If you door a cyclist, it's your fault. If a passing car rips you door off, it's your fault. I found out the later the hard way, though in retrospect it was kind of cool.
When you open your car door, you're responsible for what happens. If you door a cyclist, it's your fault. If a passing car rips you door off, it's your fault. I found out the later the hard way, though in retrospect it was kind of cool.
18
@17
It is relevant. If you blithely ride along in the door zone unprepared to stop, what do you expect? You're either an idiot, or a gold digger willing to risk permanent disability for money. Drivers, too, are required by law to not just drive the speed limit at all times, but to slow to less than the speed limit any time conditions dictate. Such as the risk of pedestrians entering the roadway for whatever reason.
"But what about my right to bike anywhere I please???" Right? What right? Driving a car on a public road is a privilege, not a right. Riding a bike on a public road is also a privilege, not a right. Sometimes physics, and the duty to avoid hitting pedestrians, places limits on that privilege.
Most of the problems bicyclists get all uptight about are because they think they're special. And because they treat pedestrians like shit. The door problem is only one example of that.
It is relevant. If you blithely ride along in the door zone unprepared to stop, what do you expect? You're either an idiot, or a gold digger willing to risk permanent disability for money. Drivers, too, are required by law to not just drive the speed limit at all times, but to slow to less than the speed limit any time conditions dictate. Such as the risk of pedestrians entering the roadway for whatever reason.
"But what about my right to bike anywhere I please???" Right? What right? Driving a car on a public road is a privilege, not a right. Riding a bike on a public road is also a privilege, not a right. Sometimes physics, and the duty to avoid hitting pedestrians, places limits on that privilege.
Most of the problems bicyclists get all uptight about are because they think they're special. And because they treat pedestrians like shit. The door problem is only one example of that.
21
@ 18 OK, so you want us to ride slightly to the left of the center of the lane of traffic at all times? Duly noted! I hope you're not going to complain when I'm going up a bit of a hill and holding up the entire road at 13 mph. I won't be "blithely riding in the door zone," so it's all good, right? 'Cause I don't see any other choices here.
22
it's fairly easy: the driver opening the door can be at fault, but so can a cyclist, and it all depends. the cyclist can't just up and go boom into the door if it coul dhave avoided the accident. nor should a cyclist be looking the other way or cycling negligently or on drugs, whatever. like drivers, right? the problem with criminal and civil cases after the fact is often there aren't witnesses or they disagree, duh, hello people lie. even drivers. even cyclists, right? sometimes they can't meet the burden of proof and sometimes the judge or jury just gets the case wrong. and very often unless you're injured to the point of being out of work a year and with lingering permanent pain type injuries and limiations no lawyer is going to go front the $2000 for the physical capacity expert, the $3000 for the voc expert, the $2000 for the economic expert, and $4500 for the doctor expert, not to mention more for an accident reconstruction expert, really, unless it's a case involving over six figures you're not going to get duly compensated. often what should be $30K you just get $6K in a settlement in part because lawyers have no incentive to fight the smaller cases since most clients can't front the costs and in america, hello, our tort laws are tilted to defendants because you usually don't get the atty fees out of the defendant so it comes out of your recovery.
this is why very separate cycletracks are better and painting lines on roads suggesting to bikes that they ride right where drivers are exiting cars and cars are parking and everyone else is creating traffic, is not so hot, and the greenways approach of putting bikes on side streets wherever possible will prevent more accidents. there'snot going to be a presumption that because the cyclist got doored, the cyclist wins the civil suit folks. the driver will say he had that door open a full 30 seconds or so and the cyclist therefore had plenty of time to avoid the collision. without video, of several third party witnesses who can tell the truth?
More...
this is why very separate cycletracks are better and painting lines on roads suggesting to bikes that they ride right where drivers are exiting cars and cars are parking and everyone else is creating traffic, is not so hot, and the greenways approach of putting bikes on side streets wherever possible will prevent more accidents. there'snot going to be a presumption that because the cyclist got doored, the cyclist wins the civil suit folks. the driver will say he had that door open a full 30 seconds or so and the cyclist therefore had plenty of time to avoid the collision. without video, of several third party witnesses who can tell the truth?
23
@21
these are your choices:
1. blithely ride in the door zone. unaware. creating accidents.
2. ride way to the left, creating backups. iow, being an asshole.
3. ride appropriately, including riding in the door zone in a nonblithe aware manner able to avoid many opening doors by moving left as appropriate, sometimes blocking a couple of cars for a few minutes, but not riding like an asshole way over to the left to fuck with cars maliciously.
these are your choices:
1. blithely ride in the door zone. unaware. creating accidents.
2. ride way to the left, creating backups. iow, being an asshole.
3. ride appropriately, including riding in the door zone in a nonblithe aware manner able to avoid many opening doors by moving left as appropriate, sometimes blocking a couple of cars for a few minutes, but not riding like an asshole way over to the left to fuck with cars maliciously.
24
@23
Oh, no. No bicyclists shall ever slow down for anybody That's unthinkable. Either bikes fly full speed through the door zone and it's everybody else's job to watch out for them, or they block the lane and it's everybody else's job to wait for them. Bicyclists wait for nobody.
Bicyclists are that special.
Oh, no. No bicyclists shall ever slow down for anybody That's unthinkable. Either bikes fly full speed through the door zone and it's everybody else's job to watch out for them, or they block the lane and it's everybody else's job to wait for them. Bicyclists wait for nobody.
Bicyclists are that special.
25
@4 "People exiting cars are pedestrians. You're supposed to yield to pedestrians,"
I thought that comment was a (very witty) joke, and I pissed myself laughing, but then realised it wasn't a joke.
For the record, in Australia, dooring is an offense.
I thought that comment was a (very witty) joke, and I pissed myself laughing, but then realised it wasn't a joke.
For the record, in Australia, dooring is an offense.
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