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News & ArtsThursday, June 28, 2012
Enviro Plastic Bag Ban Begins Sunday
Posted by Dominic Holden on Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 3:36 PM
As we report in Sources Say this week: "On July 1, single-use plastic shopping bags will be illegal in Seattle, part of an effort to keep plastic out of landfills and waterways. "It's the dumbest thing in the world," a QFC employee, not speaking on behalf of the store, told Sources Say, who was shopping for Emergen-C. "There is still other plastic that will end up in a landfill, so banning one type of plastic in one city won't solve the problem.""
1
I have enough plastic bags saved to throw my garbage out for the next 10 years.
Just use a backpack and paper bags you bring to the store.
Just use a backpack and paper bags you bring to the store.
2
Shorter QFC Employee: "Starting a trend that might not lead to instantaneous beneficial results is ALWAYS futile, and should never be undertaken for any reason whatsoever."
4
"This is ridiculous," said a masturbating hobo in the park. "Unless we can solve every single problem facing the environment at once, there's no sense in going about it in a piecemeal fashion and being inconvenienced. It's either all or nothing."
6
So what's that employees solution? Just ignore the problem I suppose.
This gets rid of a huge source of plastic pollution in the environment. Sure it doesn't get rid of it all but it is a big start.
This gets rid of a huge source of plastic pollution in the environment. Sure it doesn't get rid of it all but it is a big start.
7
Apparently the QFC employee doesn't believe anything is good unless everyone everywhere is doing it. Sounds like those global warming deniers who, when pressed on the other sensible aspects of reducing carbon emissions, just point out that India and China will keep on polluting. Dips who don't understand that you have to start somewhere, and a problem of this scale can only be solved by social change, and such change comes one tiny step (like a bag ban in one municipality) at a time.
8
Emergen-C's single packet design is wasteful. Just buy ascorbic acid or Vitamin C powder or crystals from Super Supplements or Trader Joe's, then refill from the bulk section at Madison Market or Town & Country stores in your carefully washed-dried-and-preserved plastic bag, and you will slow your contribution to the landfills.
This ban does not apply to the plastic bags available in the bulk food sections, does it?
This ban does not apply to the plastic bags available in the bulk food sections, does it?
9
So I'll start hoarding the plastic bags from the produce department to use as garbage liners, rather than the shopping bags. No big deal.
10
@3
So you won't go to a Seattle store because you have to use a paper bag or a reusable cloth bag?
Damn you're an illogical, lazy bastard aren't you?
So you won't go to a Seattle store because you have to use a paper bag or a reusable cloth bag?
Damn you're an illogical, lazy bastard aren't you?
12
If this stops store employees from automatically dumping all my shit in a plastic bag without asking me first and when I'm holding a reusable bag in my hand, I'm all for it. I'm not quite vindictive enough to demand that they take all the stuff out and put it in my reusable, but this law will save me from eventually getting pissy enough to do just that.
13
I was going to make a pithy comment about the Tragedy of the Commons, but it seems others beat me to it. NOW THERE ARE NO PITHY COMMENTS LEFT FOR ME TO MAKE!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_…
14
I predict that most people will adapt quickly and that we'll hardly be able to remember why we cared about plastic bags in the first place in a few years.
16
Similar sentiment from another petulant child in today's NYT report on Seattle's recylcing awesomeness: "Chris Baldwin, a Dick’s regular, said he had “issues with being told I have to recycle.” Turning to three colleagues who had joined him for a late lunch spread across the bed of a pickup truck, he said, “We wait until Seattle police go by, and we throw it all in the garbage.”
18
@12: Maybe they would use your reusable bag if you handed it to them at the beginning of your order instead of waiting for them to read your mind at the end.
19
Every bit helps.
I remember when 90% of my garbage was garbage and only 10% recycled.
Now it's more like 70% recycled, 15% compostable food scraps and tea bags or coffee grounds, and 15% garbage.
I remember when 90% of my garbage was garbage and only 10% recycled.
Now it's more like 70% recycled, 15% compostable food scraps and tea bags or coffee grounds, and 15% garbage.
21
I have to say, I love the notion that the ban will have such a huge impact that it's somehow worth the effort to fuss over a few resistant knuckleheads.
22
@18,
What makes you think I don't? In some cases, for various reasons, I can't, like when I walk up to a register and need a second to find my reusable bags. Or at any grocery store when the customer in front of me won't fucking move for several minutes after their purchase is concluded. Or, for that matter, when I forget I even brought them and would only remember IF the bagger asked first.
My guess is that the QFC employee is annoyed because now they have to take two seconds to ask if the customer wants a paper bag and they can no longer just mindlessly dump everything into plastic every time.
What makes you think I don't? In some cases, for various reasons, I can't, like when I walk up to a register and need a second to find my reusable bags. Or at any grocery store when the customer in front of me won't fucking move for several minutes after their purchase is concluded. Or, for that matter, when I forget I even brought them and would only remember IF the bagger asked first.
My guess is that the QFC employee is annoyed because now they have to take two seconds to ask if the customer wants a paper bag and they can no longer just mindlessly dump everything into plastic every time.
23
@18, what about all the times I come up with my reusable bags when there's no space for me to put them on the counter, and when the cashier says "Hi how are you doing?" I respond with "Great, and I don't need any bags today, I brought my own. Thanks." Cashier says "Oh, great!" and then starts putting my groceries in a plastic bag anyway.
And yeah, I will have them empty the plastic bag.
@5 I feel you!! I am a hoarder of all kinds of bags because of this. Bread bag, big ziploc that tortillas came in, chip bag, weed bag....I put cat shit in all of 'em.
And yeah, I will have them empty the plastic bag.
@5 I feel you!! I am a hoarder of all kinds of bags because of this. Bread bag, big ziploc that tortillas came in, chip bag, weed bag....I put cat shit in all of 'em.
25
It is a pretty stupid idea. For me it'll mean occasionally buying cloth bags that I have no use for, and/or using my car more often to go grocery shopping instead of busing/walking.
27
That sacker is very wise. We should never waste energy improving situations unless we can create a perfect world in a single sweeping gesture. Rome was built in just a day, after all.
I really just don't know what to do about grown-ass people acting like petulant brats. I don't. It makes my brain hurt.
I really just don't know what to do about grown-ass people acting like petulant brats. I don't. It makes my brain hurt.
28
@25:
So you'd walk or bus to the grocery store and carry the heavy groceries home, but it's too much of a burden to carry the empty bags on the way to the store?
So you'd walk or bus to the grocery store and carry the heavy groceries home, but it's too much of a burden to carry the empty bags on the way to the store?
29
@25: http://www.envirosax.com/
They roll up and snap into a ball about 2x3 that weighs next to nothing. Bags of this type are everywhere now - some with caribiners attached.
Get with the program.
They roll up and snap into a ball about 2x3 that weighs next to nothing. Bags of this type are everywhere now - some with caribiners attached.
Get with the program.
31
@28,
Kind of in #25's defense. When you don't have a car, the reusable bag thing can be a pain, unless you plan every trip to the store in advance or you carry reusables on you at all times. Now that I drive, I rarely forget my reusables, because I keep most of them in the car. When I bused everywhere, I forgot them all the damn time.
That said, I find carrying groceries in a reusable bag much easier than carrying them in plastic, especially when walking/busing. Those bags hold a lot more, and you can sling them over your shoulder.
Kind of in #25's defense. When you don't have a car, the reusable bag thing can be a pain, unless you plan every trip to the store in advance or you carry reusables on you at all times. Now that I drive, I rarely forget my reusables, because I keep most of them in the car. When I bused everywhere, I forgot them all the damn time.
That said, I find carrying groceries in a reusable bag much easier than carrying them in plastic, especially when walking/busing. Those bags hold a lot more, and you can sling them over your shoulder.
33
Got to love these nanny state ideas, what's next a ban on large sodas.
But good day overall the ACA is constitutional.
But good day overall the ACA is constitutional.
34
@29 The ones you linked are not exactly reasonably priced ($16 - $40 it looked like). Trader Joe's sells reusables for like $3.
But the problem is having the bags when you get to the store. If you don't have a car to keep them in, you have to start all of your grocery trips at home in order to leave with your reusable bags or you have to carry them around all the time.
But the problem is having the bags when you get to the store. If you don't have a car to keep them in, you have to start all of your grocery trips at home in order to leave with your reusable bags or you have to carry them around all the time.
35
@ 22, here's what I do. I put my bags in the cart or basket with the groceries. If it's a basket, I keep pulling them to the top so they're not under anything. If I have a cart I just put them in the child seat. Either way, they're right there at the top, easy to grab and put on the conveyor belt FIRST.
It takes time getting into a new habit. I bought my first reusable bags from PCC 15 years ago (still have them) but it took a hell of a long time before I consistently remembered to bring them (whether I was walking, busing or driving), or take them out of the car if I drove. Years. But... it finally happened.
It takes time getting into a new habit. I bought my first reusable bags from PCC 15 years ago (still have them) but it took a hell of a long time before I consistently remembered to bring them (whether I was walking, busing or driving), or take them out of the car if I drove. Years. But... it finally happened.
36
Aren't plastic bags fairly recent anyway? When I was a little kid in the 1970's I don't remember seeing any. It seems to have been something that popped up in the 80's
Though I HOPE they bring back those heavy white paper ice cream bags with the guy running on the front! (recycled paper naturally) Those were SWEET for your frozen sweet goodies!!
Though I HOPE they bring back those heavy white paper ice cream bags with the guy running on the front! (recycled paper naturally) Those were SWEET for your frozen sweet goodies!!
37
@31 & @34 are correct, and no, @32, that won't fit in my pocket unless I want everyone who walks by to make Mae West jokes at me.
Those who insist non-car owners must always be prepared with collapsible grocery bags on their persons are hypocrites, drivers, ideologues, or boring people who never go anywhere but work, home, and the grocery store and can't imagine complex multi-leg trips being part of someone's day. Perhaps all four.
That said, it doesn't really bother me to pay an extra dime for a paper bag when I haven't brought a reusable.
Those who insist non-car owners must always be prepared with collapsible grocery bags on their persons are hypocrites, drivers, ideologues, or boring people who never go anywhere but work, home, and the grocery store and can't imagine complex multi-leg trips being part of someone's day. Perhaps all four.
That said, it doesn't really bother me to pay an extra dime for a paper bag when I haven't brought a reusable.
38
@35,
Yes, I do that too. Occasionally, I'm presented with a situation where that doesn't work. The most common one is where I'm buying just one thing and don't have a reusable bag because I don't need one. Telling them not to give me a bag results in their giving me one. What should I do? Threaten to cut a bitch?
Anyway, my point is that I'm glad the ban is going to force them to ask. At least that's what I hope, because the alternative is that they're going to massively piss off customers by automatically charging for paper bags without asking first.
Yes, I do that too. Occasionally, I'm presented with a situation where that doesn't work. The most common one is where I'm buying just one thing and don't have a reusable bag because I don't need one. Telling them not to give me a bag results in their giving me one. What should I do? Threaten to cut a bitch?
Anyway, my point is that I'm glad the ban is going to force them to ask. At least that's what I hope, because the alternative is that they're going to massively piss off customers by automatically charging for paper bags without asking first.
39
he's right; the entire puget sound is yoked with sewage and dogshit emanating from the private estates of the privileged elite. Were sitting on top of the northwest equivalent of the grand canyon and it's considered kosher that almost every square foot of shoreline is off limits to the public and is being used as a personal garbage receptacle. get your fucking priorities straight people.
41
If you search Amazon for "t shirt bag", which is what these bags are called, you can buy a thousand of them for about $20. I'll be taking mine down to Green Lake and lofting them into the wind, one by one.
43
@34, 37: good products cost more money, and $16 is not that much for multiple bags. but it appears you don't wear a jacket, carry a satchel, want to be convinced, or do something new.
44
@ 38, my guess is that they'd have to bring back paper bags. My local Kroger affiliate has them even though no one has even breathed a word about passing a bag ban here. No reason why yours (QFC/Fred Meyer) couldn't.
45
@ 41, that's just evil. Here's a customer review:
Heh. Like people don't wash their bags, and like food doesn't come in impermeable packaging if they didn't... And as I said upthread, I've been using two of my bags for 15 years...
Bags banned at grocery stores? Bring your own! December 12, 2011
By A Customer
If you live in some stupid hippie town which has banned plastic bags, don't bend over for the government. Bring your own bags! For less than three pennies each, you can avoid the bacteria-infested re-usable canvas bags which wear out anyway.
If you want to save the environment, reuse these disposable bags as mini garbage bags (instead of buying and tossing out full-size "garbage bags"). If you don't want to save the environment, these are cheap enough to throw into garbage cans for no good reason every time you want to express contempt for recycling and the environment. Either way, you're golden.
Heh. Like people don't wash their bags, and like food doesn't come in impermeable packaging if they didn't... And as I said upthread, I've been using two of my bags for 15 years...
46
It is a legitimate role of government to protect the environment and wildlife. Also, not bringing home plastic bags on a daily basis since I switched to my own bags and paper seems to tame kitchen chaos.
Just remember to toss your reusable bags in the washer fairly often.
Just remember to toss your reusable bags in the washer fairly often.
47
@38 [to cashier] "I don't need a bag, thanks" [cashier puts item in bag] "I don't need a bag thanks" [takes item out of bag and hands bag back to cashier to use for next customer]. @38 exit stage left.
@5: flushable litter (worked for me for years) or compostible poop bags, no reason to clog the landfill.
Anyone who needs more outrage regarding this bag ban need only look to the Seattle Times comment landslide. A couple of my enduring favorites:
`The city will be ankle-deep in dog poop because without plastic bags no one will be able to clean it up."
Supermarket checkers will die from ptomaine poisoning from touching filthy contaminated reused grocery bags."
Extra credit:
"I'm going to dump my dog poop on City Councilmembers' front yards!"
Have fun kids!
@5: flushable litter (worked for me for years) or compostible poop bags, no reason to clog the landfill.
Anyone who needs more outrage regarding this bag ban need only look to the Seattle Times comment landslide. A couple of my enduring favorites:
`The city will be ankle-deep in dog poop because without plastic bags no one will be able to clean it up."
Supermarket checkers will die from ptomaine poisoning from touching filthy contaminated reused grocery bags."
Extra credit:
"I'm going to dump my dog poop on City Councilmembers' front yards!"
Have fun kids!
48
Because I dont own a car, carrying 4-6 bags of groceries 6 blocks home via paper bags is a major hassle, I'll be using Amazon Fresh for the majority of my shopping.
Carrying 4-6 cloth bags with me everywhere I go, just isnt practical for me as it takes up too much room in my side bag (rainjacket, work lunch, tazer, plus gadgets). Even when I tell the wife "Im going shopping on Friday", I still got a text from her asking me to go to the store today, so I never know when im going to the store.
On a side note, if more people like me (people who dont own a car and forget to carry cloth bags with them) choose to order groceries online, it might bite the city in the ass. While most things are a few dimes more expensive, 125$ worth of food generated 55 cents worth of tax, so it basically offsets itself and there ends up being no delivery fee.
So in 6 months, someone should do a story about if Amazon Fresh or Safeway.com saw a slight bump in sales due to the new law. Their gain might result in a dip in tax revenues for the city, as well as lost sales for stores like QFC.
Carrying 4-6 cloth bags with me everywhere I go, just isnt practical for me as it takes up too much room in my side bag (rainjacket, work lunch, tazer, plus gadgets). Even when I tell the wife "Im going shopping on Friday", I still got a text from her asking me to go to the store today, so I never know when im going to the store.
On a side note, if more people like me (people who dont own a car and forget to carry cloth bags with them) choose to order groceries online, it might bite the city in the ass. While most things are a few dimes more expensive, 125$ worth of food generated 55 cents worth of tax, so it basically offsets itself and there ends up being no delivery fee.
So in 6 months, someone should do a story about if Amazon Fresh or Safeway.com saw a slight bump in sales due to the new law. Their gain might result in a dip in tax revenues for the city, as well as lost sales for stores like QFC.
49
waaaaaaah, the grown babies who fear they might be inconvienced by the plastic bag ban.
i'm 62, haven't driven a car in 30 years, take the bus or walk to stores, any the ban on plastic bags has been on for over a year in my city -- and i've lived to tell you, it'd fucking easier.
the reusable bags don't split, stand up on their own, are easier to carry than plastic.
and if i forget 'em, or make a surprise grocery run, i can buy another in the store fo a dollar, or pay 10 cents for a paper bag, paper bags being the way my mother and grandmother brought their groceries home for decades.
i also roll 'em out in a small rolling cart, 20 dollars in most stores, if i'm stocking up on lots of stuff.
the chart is also reusable, clueless wah wah babies.
it's taken me a year to work thru all my saved plastic bags as garbage bags, and i'm happy to see them gone, they split and leaked.
i'm 62, haven't driven a car in 30 years, take the bus or walk to stores, any the ban on plastic bags has been on for over a year in my city -- and i've lived to tell you, it'd fucking easier.
the reusable bags don't split, stand up on their own, are easier to carry than plastic.
and if i forget 'em, or make a surprise grocery run, i can buy another in the store fo a dollar, or pay 10 cents for a paper bag, paper bags being the way my mother and grandmother brought their groceries home for decades.
i also roll 'em out in a small rolling cart, 20 dollars in most stores, if i'm stocking up on lots of stuff.
the chart is also reusable, clueless wah wah babies.
it's taken me a year to work thru all my saved plastic bags as garbage bags, and i'm happy to see them gone, they split and leaked.
50
@47,
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not complaining because a cashier refusing to listen to me or to think of asking me what I want is a fate worse than death or because I think I'm obligated to take a bag when I've explicitly told them I don't want one.
I'm complaining as a counterpoint to the anti-ban people who claim they can't live without plastic bags. The stores keep trying to force them on me, much to my annoyance. This isn't an issue of choice since my choice is routinely ignored.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not complaining because a cashier refusing to listen to me or to think of asking me what I want is a fate worse than death or because I think I'm obligated to take a bag when I've explicitly told them I don't want one.
I'm complaining as a counterpoint to the anti-ban people who claim they can't live without plastic bags. The stores keep trying to force them on me, much to my annoyance. This isn't an issue of choice since my choice is routinely ignored.
53
To paraphrase the late, great Nora Ephron: Show me a person who gets worked up about this, and I'll show you a real asshole.
I mean really - you have to remember something, or pay a nickel? Oh, boo hoo hoo.
"But what", the suddenly tender troll asks, "about the elderly? The forgetful? The the poor? The dear, dear poor? "
They'll learn to bring a bag. Just like the rest of us.
I mean really - you have to remember something, or pay a nickel? Oh, boo hoo hoo.
"But what", the suddenly tender troll asks, "about the elderly? The forgetful? The the poor? The dear, dear poor? "
They'll learn to bring a bag. Just like the rest of us.
54
@ 48, in other words, you're inflexible. Jesus, just carry ONE bag with you if you feel that you just HAVE to be ready to go to the store without notice. If you have to buy more than can fill one bag on those occasions, you're really bad at planning your regular shopping.
@ 51, people keep telling him that, and he keeps repeating it on new threads anyway.
@ 51, people keep telling him that, and he keeps repeating it on new threads anyway.
55
To be fair, a necessity like a tazer does take up just oodles of room. When you add gadgets and a rain jacket, well....
56
37/48- I don't have a car and I don't have a problem. I do usually carry a shoulder bag and just always keep a couple bags on the bottom.
You don't have to carry those thick canvas bags. Google Envirosax, Chicobag, or Baggu. They fold up to almost no space and are wonderful. If you don't carry a bag or backpack or purse, there are some with little carabiners that you can hook to a belt loop or whatever.
You don't have to carry those thick canvas bags. Google Envirosax, Chicobag, or Baggu. They fold up to almost no space and are wonderful. If you don't carry a bag or backpack or purse, there are some with little carabiners that you can hook to a belt loop or whatever.
57
Blah blah blah blah blah, @54.
Judybrowni might be staggeringly self-righteous, but at least she walks her talk.
You live in Denver, and so there's a 99% chance you're doing your grocery shopping with your reusable bags in the back of your fucking gas-guzzler. Stop being a hypocrite and just shut the fuck up.
Judybrowni might be staggeringly self-righteous, but at least she walks her talk.
You live in Denver, and so there's a 99% chance you're doing your grocery shopping with your reusable bags in the back of your fucking gas-guzzler. Stop being a hypocrite and just shut the fuck up.
58
@ 57, I wasn't addressing judybrowni. She commented @ 49. See? My comment clearly begins w/ "@ 48" and berates that person for NOT wanting to use bags.
I'M ON YOUR SIDE, dip.
Read the fucking comments before you do that again, stupid.
I'M ON YOUR SIDE, dip.
Read the fucking comments before you do that again, stupid.
59
I love my reusable bags and always have a couple canvas ones at the bottom of my purse. It's quite simple.
I DO NOT love the grocery store workers who treat reusable bags as if they are plastic. They are not. Heavy stuff at the bottom and not all in the same bag please. If I see a bagger that I know to be horrible, I lay my groceries and put a bag on each little pile, then ask the checker if my items could be bagged that way because I am walking. People are usually nice about it and if they have an issue, it's theirs. I shouldn't have to train their goddamn baggers, but best believe I will.
I DO NOT love the grocery store workers who treat reusable bags as if they are plastic. They are not. Heavy stuff at the bottom and not all in the same bag please. If I see a bagger that I know to be horrible, I lay my groceries and put a bag on each little pile, then ask the checker if my items could be bagged that way because I am walking. People are usually nice about it and if they have an issue, it's theirs. I shouldn't have to train their goddamn baggers, but best believe I will.
61
So I assume that on July 2, with the bag ban in effect, the subsequent reduction in plastic waste by 0.0000001% will result in an ecological paradise, right? Right?
Another question: if someone has lost one of his or her arms in an accident of some type, how will they be able to congratulate themselves on how wonderful they are?
Another question: if someone has lost one of his or her arms in an accident of some type, how will they be able to congratulate themselves on how wonderful they are?
63
@58, you're not on "my side" and your reading comprehension is poor.
You had just launched into Kinison for being "bad at planning" and chastised anyone else who doesn't do what you see as the environmental imperative of lugging a bag around at all times.
But living in Denver, where no one walks to the supermarket, I can pretty much guarantee you've done more environmental damage by the time you arrive at the store (with your precious bags in the trunk) than I would do even if I packed my groceries in styrofoam.
I personally support the plastic ban, and I have no problem with the tiny surcharge for paper when I can't bring a reusable. What I oppose is the hypocrisy seeping from every pore of the environmentally-haughty gas-guzzlers in the western part of this country.
I mentioned Judibrowni for contrast. She's annoying, but she doesn't drive so she's not a hypocrite.
You had just launched into Kinison for being "bad at planning" and chastised anyone else who doesn't do what you see as the environmental imperative of lugging a bag around at all times.
But living in Denver, where no one walks to the supermarket, I can pretty much guarantee you've done more environmental damage by the time you arrive at the store (with your precious bags in the trunk) than I would do even if I packed my groceries in styrofoam.
I personally support the plastic ban, and I have no problem with the tiny surcharge for paper when I can't bring a reusable. What I oppose is the hypocrisy seeping from every pore of the environmentally-haughty gas-guzzlers in the western part of this country.
I mentioned Judibrowni for contrast. She's annoying, but she doesn't drive so she's not a hypocrite.
64
Reading comprehension, eh? So you brought up judybrowni for no fucking reason? (Which your "contrast" is.) Dingleberry. Try writing for comprehension.
The rest shows what you know, d.b. I... wait for it... walk to the store all the time. It's half a mile away. I only drive for the big shopping because $200 worth of groceries is a lot to carry on foot, bike, or bus, and do it as part of a round trip where I take care of other errands. I walk or bike my kids to school, I don't drive to work because I'm a stay at home dad, and although my wife now commutes (because the only job she could find after being laid off for close to two years isn't on any bus or light rail line), she worked from home for five years.
Having lived in both Denver and Seattle, I can testify that Denver is the greener city. There are more walkable neighborhoods here than there. Many more bikepaths, with only a fraction of the car vs bike drama Seattle has. You don't have to live in an expensive central neighborhood, meaning that a green lifestyle is within reach of families of modest means, as opposed to young singles and childless couples with nice white collar jobs.
God, you really are a presumptive jackoff.
The rest shows what you know, d.b. I... wait for it... walk to the store all the time. It's half a mile away. I only drive for the big shopping because $200 worth of groceries is a lot to carry on foot, bike, or bus, and do it as part of a round trip where I take care of other errands. I walk or bike my kids to school, I don't drive to work because I'm a stay at home dad, and although my wife now commutes (because the only job she could find after being laid off for close to two years isn't on any bus or light rail line), she worked from home for five years.
Having lived in both Denver and Seattle, I can testify that Denver is the greener city. There are more walkable neighborhoods here than there. Many more bikepaths, with only a fraction of the car vs bike drama Seattle has. You don't have to live in an expensive central neighborhood, meaning that a green lifestyle is within reach of families of modest means, as opposed to young singles and childless couples with nice white collar jobs.
God, you really are a presumptive jackoff.
65
Just buy a couple of 99 cent reusable tote bags and carry them in your backpack. It's not the end of the world, and it's not even really that big of a deal.
66
Whatever, jackass @64 who can't even get my two initials right.
So let's review. You carry a bag when you start your trip from home -- which you admit is where you spend 90% of your time -- and drive with bags for larger shopping trips. Then you berate anyone whose life doesn't function on the principle of "always starting from home and/or driving".
That's what I meant by hypocrisy.
(And, FWIW, I already said that Seattleites and West Coasters in general engage in the same hypocrisy as you do.)
Denver's non-driving mode-share is pathetic, RTD light rail is useless for anything but commuting from the wasteland of southern sprawl, the bike paths are more about a "Rocky Mountain high" self-image than the actual functioning of the city. And if Denver is full of "walkable" neighborhoods then you have a very different definition of "walkable" than most people (including your neighbors).
So let's review. You carry a bag when you start your trip from home -- which you admit is where you spend 90% of your time -- and drive with bags for larger shopping trips. Then you berate anyone whose life doesn't function on the principle of "always starting from home and/or driving".
That's what I meant by hypocrisy.
(And, FWIW, I already said that Seattleites and West Coasters in general engage in the same hypocrisy as you do.)
Denver's non-driving mode-share is pathetic, RTD light rail is useless for anything but commuting from the wasteland of southern sprawl, the bike paths are more about a "Rocky Mountain high" self-image than the actual functioning of the city. And if Denver is full of "walkable" neighborhoods then you have a very different definition of "walkable" than most people (including your neighbors).
67
@ 66, I got it your initials right, all right. Go reread my first paragraph @ 64 to see what they stand for, d.b.
I wasn't berating "anyone whose life doesn't function on the principle of "always starting from home and/or driving"." I was berating KINISON, who's argument was basically "I got to be ready to go to the grocery store WITH NO PRIOR NOTICE and I'm going to whine about it rather than, say, carry ONE bag with me or pony up the dime for the paper bag."
See the difference? No, you probably don't.
AND... you're pretty much wrong on most account of Denver, from your characterization of light rail (which is expanding to the west and north) to your crack about "walkability" (which you don't explain, probably because you can't) and the one about "mode share" (which isn't great but isn't Houston either).
In short, you're wrong. Now go die.
I wasn't berating "anyone whose life doesn't function on the principle of "always starting from home and/or driving"." I was berating KINISON, who's argument was basically "I got to be ready to go to the grocery store WITH NO PRIOR NOTICE and I'm going to whine about it rather than, say, carry ONE bag with me or pony up the dime for the paper bag."
See the difference? No, you probably don't.
AND... you're pretty much wrong on most account of Denver, from your characterization of light rail (which is expanding to the west and north) to your crack about "walkability" (which you don't explain, probably because you can't) and the one about "mode share" (which isn't great but isn't Houston either).
In short, you're wrong. Now go die.
68
Ooh... so now light rail will connect wastelands of western and northern sprawl? And will be functionally useless for anything but parking-and-riding to work for a few thousand people once a day a those cardinal directions as well? I'm so impressed!
70
Whatever. Only an idiot would leave America's second-most deluded city for its most deluded one, and then spend the rest of his life commenting on local matters that no longer affect him.
71
@ 70, if you think a bag ban isn't coming to my town at some point, that's just one more thing you don't know.
Do you usually enjoy displaying your ignorance like this? Because it's impressive in a way.
Do you usually enjoy displaying your ignorance like this? Because it's impressive in a way.
72
As entertaining as this thread is - I'm wondering why any of you get so worked up and spend this much energy defending how you buy groceries. Who cares if someone calls you a name or *gasp* accuses you (perhaps falsely) of driving to the grocery store? Silly, silly people. Oh, in case you're wondering, this is how I get to the store/purchase my groceries/bag them/get them home. *insert your own story here*
(I DO have a small reusable bag that turns into a tiny, tiny pouch that I can keep on my key ring - not huge, but perfect for those unexpected stops at the store on my way home. I recommend these sorts of bags to everyone.)
(I DO have a small reusable bag that turns into a tiny, tiny pouch that I can keep on my key ring - not huge, but perfect for those unexpected stops at the store on my way home. I recommend these sorts of bags to everyone.)
73
Oy.
Hey, Matt, how many times have you used RTD light rail in the last year, just to pursue one strand of your deluded dipshittery? Once? Twice? Never?
Smug citizens of Growing Western Cities (TM) get so irrationally erect for light rail -- a meaningless term, BTW, that came to widespread usage only because it seemed to cause less terror in suburbanites -- that they relinquish their ability to assess whether that rail is built in any remotely useful manner.
You live in the central city of a major metropolitan area, Matt. If light rail rarely fits into your life or that of any other city residents, then it's a pretty fucking useless addition to the urban form no matter how much you crow about it. The ridership numbers back me up on this.
This phenomenon is hardly limited to Denver, but RTD light rail happens to be an especially glowing example of it.
Oh, right, but Denver is "green" because you personally leave the house with a canvas sack!
Hey, Matt, how many times have you used RTD light rail in the last year, just to pursue one strand of your deluded dipshittery? Once? Twice? Never?
Smug citizens of Growing Western Cities (TM) get so irrationally erect for light rail -- a meaningless term, BTW, that came to widespread usage only because it seemed to cause less terror in suburbanites -- that they relinquish their ability to assess whether that rail is built in any remotely useful manner.
You live in the central city of a major metropolitan area, Matt. If light rail rarely fits into your life or that of any other city residents, then it's a pretty fucking useless addition to the urban form no matter how much you crow about it. The ridership numbers back me up on this.
This phenomenon is hardly limited to Denver, but RTD light rail happens to be an especially glowing example of it.
Oh, right, but Denver is "green" because you personally leave the house with a canvas sack!
74
A ban no doubt supported by makers of garbage can liners, almost all of which are made overseas with minimal "recycled" content (actually just trimmings from the same factory). Re-use of USA made plastic shopping bags (60%-100% recycled, about 1/10th the weight in material) is by far a better choice for garbage. I didn't know that these bags were such a litter problem, but I think we're creating a problem while "solving" another.
75
"To paraphrase the late, great Nora Ephron: Show me a person who gets worked up about this, and I'll show you a real asshole."
Perfect description for Seattle's rabid green nazis.
"So I'll start hoarding the plastic bags from the produce department to use as garbage liners, rather than the shopping bags."
Exactly. They are also great for diapers.
Landfill shortage? Have you morons ever driven through Eastern Washington? That's right, all those bags blowing out of dumps into the ocean….yeah right.
"QFC employees are the dumbest thing in the world"
THey're unionized that's why.
Perfect description for Seattle's rabid green nazis.
"So I'll start hoarding the plastic bags from the produce department to use as garbage liners, rather than the shopping bags."
Exactly. They are also great for diapers.
Landfill shortage? Have you morons ever driven through Eastern Washington? That's right, all those bags blowing out of dumps into the ocean….yeah right.
"QFC employees are the dumbest thing in the world"
THey're unionized that's why.
77
I used to believe that plastic bag bans were an inconvenience to pet owners, until I got a dog. If every single item I purchased from a retail store were bagged in a separate shopping bag, I still wouldn't have enough bags to keep up with the pup. So I forego the store bags and buy biodegradable waste bags in bulk from the internets. They're less than $.02/bag (since DC charges $.05 per bag, that's a savings), and slightly better for the environment than indestructible shopping bags (plus I can put them in a convenient holder attached to my leash, so I never forget bags or have to stuff them in my waistband because I'm wearing athletic pants without pockets). Also, far fewer of them have holes in them (basically none, unless I rip poorly), so they can all be used for the job at hand. And I still get enough shopping bags from the "oops, I forgot my bag" or "well, I bought more than I planned on" moments to line my trash cans.
78
Ergh...for places with outright bans, might I suggest paper bags for lining small waste baskets? My grandparents always did that, and it was fine (really, what are you throwing away in the bathroom or office that REQUIRES a leak-proof bag). Or you can buy small trash bags, if you're set on having plastic. Personally, I don't line my living room, bedroom, and office trash cans at all. All I put in them is paper (receipts, clothing tags, and the like) and the occasional dryer sheet. Not really gonna make a mess in the can.
80
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81
yes...the horrible grocery checkers that are told to go faster and get their time up all the time and also have to put up with people that all feel they are the most important thing in the universe while snapping their fingers at you when you start their order because they cannot be bothered to get off their damn phones for 2 minutes. Sooo glad to not have to be employed in the city of Seattle. We touch all those smelly horrible pet hair covered bags you all love so much and I hope that a lot of people get sick when all these bags never get washed or cleaned. So the stores will save money on buying plastic and now charge for paper and will take longer to bag in all these weird ass bags people pull out of god knows where-do you think this will cause prices to be lower? Hell no it won"t!!!
82
Probably too late to make a difference, but FWIW, you can get the super lightweight nylon bags that fold up into a tiny 2X3 or whatever and have a keychain hook and shit (as mentioned above) at Daiso Japan. For Seattle Peeps: It's in the ID and at Westlake, and you can get these bags in just as fancy of patterns and colors for only 1.50 each. I just carry a few in my bag at all times, to the point where I feel naked without one.
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