@8 how are you not an ignorant slut? obviously my point is everyone gets help from the government at some point so it would have been quite easy to tie the mandate to that, completely depriving right wing morons of the faux distinction between action and inaction. but you can't follow that point I guess, nor see I am pro the health care law, in part, because it cuts down on freeloaderism. your response is a good example of how liberals seem allergic to the kind of talk that actually convinces most people. all I have to do is spout the word "Freeloader" and images of right wing diatribes pop up in your mind, "ohmygod limbaugh called welfare folks freeloaders, that's so unfaaaaair" preventing you from realizing the point is to use those little moral judgment stories for progressive and indeed "socialist" ends. you're the kind of person who apparenlty wants progressives to stick with past messaging, delusionally thinking somehow someway it will start working, when clearly it doesn't. btw, college, grad school, and bought my own insurance with a half million dollar fucking lifetime limit on care I bonced up against so I am well acquainted with the notions of insurnace and how it's all a scam as it has so many loopholes nad limits it's a fraudulent product, and we ned socialism as the market doesn't work, but the basis of socialism is in part: no freeloading -- we're all in it together -- we need each other -- dude, insurance is socialism. we just need to explain it the right way. @6 has the same problem. the other side had the broccoli argument. we had no short and sweet argument in favor of the law. you guys are so stupid, you can't grok that or even tell what side I am on. you can't explain it to people with the liberal moral views of "we all need help" that does not WORK politically. how many mor decades will it take you to realize that? so explain it as preventing the freeloading of those who dont' get insurance then go to ER then our bills for care and insurance have a freeloader factor. most americans would relate to that, also it's actually an explanation of why the health care "mandate" is needed; your explanation of "we should do the right thing" decade after decade fails. why not expalin why it's in our economi self interest for once, try something that works? when democrats spoke to economic self interest we won elections, nowadays, not so much.