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News & ArtsWednesday, June 20, 2012
City / Religion The Mars Hill Version of Marriage Counseling: Accuse the Wife of Having "Sex Demons," Perform Surprise Exorcism
Posted by Brendan Kiley on Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM
More stories are trickling out of Mars Hill—the Seattle-based church that started as a kind of rocker/pop-friendly Christianity and has grown darker and more autocratic under the leadership of Pastor Mark Driscoll.
When I was working on this story about Mars Hill a few months ago, a persistent question was why people would submit to Driscoll, who resembles nothing more than a schoolyard bully. But he has no actual authority over anybody. Even the most devout Christians know that the world is swarming with false prophets and two-bit hucksters who call themselves pastors. Why would any sane, self-respecting adult put up with Driscoll's chest-pounding, self-serving bullshit?
This story is a good window into how a person—in this case, a woman—gets sucked down that rabbit hole, and what that rabbit hole looks like.
It was only the three of them: Amy, her husband, and Mark. Amy was sitting beside her husband on a leather couch. They were facing Mark.
“Mark started the meeting by telling us he was convinced that I had demons,” says Amy, “and then he went on to add that my demons were ‘sexual demons’.”
Amy describes Mark’s demeanor toward her as a “fiery tirade”. During this encounter, Mark told Amy he believed that every one of her sins were “sex based.” He said that the demons inside her were out to destroy every one of the marriages in their circle of friends.
“At one point,” says Amy, “he asked me which one of my husband’s friends I had imagined sleeping with.”
Amy was dumbfounded by Mark’s questions and accusations. But she also admits, because she no longer trusted Mark, she was also slightly terrified of what was about to happen.
The storyteller's identity is never disclosed, but the details are convincingly specific—the pecking order, the slow slide from church friends into cultishness, Driscoll's obsessions with other people's sex lives, the shunning...
1
Pretty sure Driscoll's going to end up dead of a heart attack with a pile of coke in the bed of his secret gay lover.
2
Just this excerpt is enough to make me feel queasy. No fucking way I'm going to click on the link and read the whole story.
I predict Driscoll's career will end either in a shockingly bizarre sex scandal or a Jim Jonesesque bloodbath.
I predict Driscoll's career will end either in a shockingly bizarre sex scandal or a Jim Jonesesque bloodbath.
3
"You mother sucks cocks in h..."
"SURPRISE! The power of Christ compels you!"
"Wha... Ha... oh, you guys! How did you keep this secret? Gosh. everybody's here, too."
"The power of Chri..."
"Hah. Ok. I'm going. I'm going."
"SURPRISE! The power of Christ compels you!"
"Wha... Ha... oh, you guys! How did you keep this secret? Gosh. everybody's here, too."
"The power of Chri..."
"Hah. Ok. I'm going. I'm going."
4
Seven weeks from meeting one another to married?! It's no wonder their marriage immediately started to self-destruct.
And Brendan, you should have included the link that follows the excerpt, "Mark Driscoll 'sees' things." It's a great example of the guy's hubris, and shows just how creepy/ridiculous he is. Best part, IMO, is how people supposedly confronting their relatives about molestation are met with the same response one would give about recounting a family vacation. "Yeah [I molested you], but you were only like a year or two old. How do you remember that?" LOL/"Are you fucking serious?" face
And Brendan, you should have included the link that follows the excerpt, "Mark Driscoll 'sees' things." It's a great example of the guy's hubris, and shows just how creepy/ridiculous he is. Best part, IMO, is how people supposedly confronting their relatives about molestation are met with the same response one would give about recounting a family vacation. "Yeah [I molested you], but you were only like a year or two old. How do you remember that?" LOL/"Are you fucking serious?" face
5
Gross. I bet Driscoll wanted to hear that she was fantasizing about fucking him. As if anyone would want to fuck that faux-hawked douchebag.
8
"Mars Hill Sex Demons" would look great on the back of a black leather jacket! (Could The Stranger hold a contest for the best logo/image to go with it?)
9
And her husband didn't punch Driscoll in the mouth because...??
Seriously, after the lobotomy does Mars Hell also cut your nuts off?
Seriously, after the lobotomy does Mars Hell also cut your nuts off?
10
I have a cousin who went from Lapsed Catholic party girl to Uptight Baptist Wife in about two months. Her creepy husband runs the music ministry at their creep church, and often disappears in the evening to perform "spiritual counseling".
Anyway, one time Mother Vel-DuRay (her Aunt) and Auntie Vel-DuRay (her Mother) and myself were at lunch when someone from her church came in the small restaurant.
Uptight Baptist Wife totally ignored the person, even though she had introduced her to her Mother, and they had had friendly intereactions on several occassions.
When Auntie Vel-DuRay asked her why she was ignoring her friend, Uptight Baptist Wife told her that the friend had left the church, and that they were "shunning" her.
Auntie rolled her eyes (she is a world-class eye roller - all of the Vel-DuRay women are) and inquired loudly "Shunning? I don't understand that church of yours. If you wanted a new religion, couldn't you at least have become an Episcopalean or something?"
Anyway, one time Mother Vel-DuRay (her Aunt) and Auntie Vel-DuRay (her Mother) and myself were at lunch when someone from her church came in the small restaurant.
Uptight Baptist Wife totally ignored the person, even though she had introduced her to her Mother, and they had had friendly intereactions on several occassions.
When Auntie Vel-DuRay asked her why she was ignoring her friend, Uptight Baptist Wife told her that the friend had left the church, and that they were "shunning" her.
Auntie rolled her eyes (she is a world-class eye roller - all of the Vel-DuRay women are) and inquired loudly "Shunning? I don't understand that church of yours. If you wanted a new religion, couldn't you at least have become an Episcopalean or something?"
11
So, so glad I don't belong to any organizations. Especially religious ones, but really any time you get a bunch of people who believe the sames things in the same place, shit starts to get really weird. This one takes the cake, though. It's like watching the rise of the Mormons, or a less alien-y Scientology.
12
@9,
According to the account in the link, the husband didn't punch Driscoll in the mouth because he wanted to believe that his wife was responsible for all the problems in their marriage. He acted relieved when Driscoll handed that to him on a silver platter.
According to the account in the link, the husband didn't punch Driscoll in the mouth because he wanted to believe that his wife was responsible for all the problems in their marriage. He acted relieved when Driscoll handed that to him on a silver platter.
14
"Surpise excorisms"? Is this like a surprise b-day party? How do you plan them? Should you decorate the living room with streamers and balloons?
16
Mark Driscoll is definitely on my "Top Ten Most Punchable" list.
Sometimes I just daydream about punching people on that list. Mmm. I wonder if that's close enough to fantasizing about him for Mark to get off on.
And yes, in case you're wondering, selection for the list is substantially more complex than "I don't like you." There are whole dimensions of punchability to consider: the angles of the face, the robustness to take a punch without crumpling like a scarecrow, the hilarity of the indignity and shocked blubbering that follows.
Mel Gibson, for example, is extremely punchable because he's a loudmouthed hatemonger, sure, but also because the gibbering rage that followed would be hilarious, and it would probably be a pretty good fight. Rick Perry is punchable because it would probably rip the fake human skin right off his lizard face. Mark Driscoll is punchable because he's a just an absolute paragon of the "big, puffy, pink bro" type and it would be really satisfying to see him go on about turning the other cheek for about 0.8 seconds before he just started throwing wild, furious windmill slaps. Newt Gingrich is punchable because he would cry.
Sometimes I just daydream about punching people on that list. Mmm. I wonder if that's close enough to fantasizing about him for Mark to get off on.
And yes, in case you're wondering, selection for the list is substantially more complex than "I don't like you." There are whole dimensions of punchability to consider: the angles of the face, the robustness to take a punch without crumpling like a scarecrow, the hilarity of the indignity and shocked blubbering that follows.
Mel Gibson, for example, is extremely punchable because he's a loudmouthed hatemonger, sure, but also because the gibbering rage that followed would be hilarious, and it would probably be a pretty good fight. Rick Perry is punchable because it would probably rip the fake human skin right off his lizard face. Mark Driscoll is punchable because he's a just an absolute paragon of the "big, puffy, pink bro" type and it would be really satisfying to see him go on about turning the other cheek for about 0.8 seconds before he just started throwing wild, furious windmill slaps. Newt Gingrich is punchable because he would cry.
17
@16 Years back I used to have an open cage match invitation out to that asshole Driscoll (for very stupid personal reasons).
Buuuut now he is a huge 'roided up monster who does nothing but crazy Christian bullshit, lift weights, and train MMA every day.
So if I were you I'd consider carefully actually punching that dude. He not only thinks he'll live forever, but he's very capable of breaking your arms.
Buuuut now he is a huge 'roided up monster who does nothing but crazy Christian bullshit, lift weights, and train MMA every day.
So if I were you I'd consider carefully actually punching that dude. He not only thinks he'll live forever, but he's very capable of breaking your arms.
18
@17, I mean, this is my Fantasy Punch-ball* team. I am not so much a punching people kind of guy. I don't mind getting my fair ass-beating comeuppance if I do something stupid like punch a juicer, but I do not think I would enjoy assault charges. Or jail. (Nor, I suppose I must reluctantly admit, do I think it is right to employ violence against people who have done none to you, no matter whether you'd win or lose. Sheesh. Ethics are no fun.)
In fairness I am pretty sure I could take most of the people on my list, though.
* - While this wordplay does not in fact indicate that punches in the balls are the order of the day, I am not averse to punching deserving individuals in the junk. That, however, is an entirely different list.
In fairness I am pretty sure I could take most of the people on my list, though.
* - While this wordplay does not in fact indicate that punches in the balls are the order of the day, I am not averse to punching deserving individuals in the junk. That, however, is an entirely different list.
19
As disgusting at this is, it's not new. It is a sad fact that Mr. Discoll is just another in a long, long history of Christian egoists.
What he does in little is what most other Christian organizations do in large. What they do lacks the in-you-face threats of the MHC, but they compensate w/ a corporate-like efficiency. When you strip down the differences, you reveal the same central core: They're obsessed w/ sex, controlling the lives of others, and growing their group like a cancer overtaking healthy organs.
What he does in little is what most other Christian organizations do in large. What they do lacks the in-you-face threats of the MHC, but they compensate w/ a corporate-like efficiency. When you strip down the differences, you reveal the same central core: They're obsessed w/ sex, controlling the lives of others, and growing their group like a cancer overtaking healthy organs.
21
Driscoll was projecting. Clearly he has a huge penis-power fetish and gets off on subjugating people. It's all about his sexual demons.
22
Moreover, it's clear that Driscoll's power within his church has corrupted him. Being dominant in a group causes physiological changes - higher testosterone, greater aggression, a greater willingness to break social norms even while enforcing conformity. Driscoll knows he can get away with a lot more than he used to think he could get away with, and so, he's a much worse person.
24
After reading that article, I'd also say that Driscoll's wife is a big part of the problem. Her submission is enabling him. By failing to hold him accountable for bad behavior, by letting him get away with whatever he wants, she is allowing him to become a bad person.
26
@9: "And her husband didn't punch Driscoll in the mouth because...?? "
Because he's a control freak fundamentalist Christian and already believes everything Driscoll believes?
Because he's a control freak fundamentalist Christian and already believes everything Driscoll believes?
27
Yeah...wow.
I don't get how in this day and age people are still willing to subject themselves to the totalitarianism of people like Driscoll and institutions like Mars Hill. This is America, people. You can fucking walk out of any church, or marriage situation the second you want to. Not without potentially painful consequences, but Driscoll's authority ultimately comes from those who give it to him. There's a wider network of responsibility for the harms done by Mars Hill than just Driscoll himself, however foolish and toxic of an individual he may be.
As for Driscoll himself . . . it all just sounds like a gong show at this point. The cracks are getting bigger and the dude's issues aren't too hard to piece together if you read his books and then read stories from former Mars Hill members, and have some kind of background in conservative American Protestantism.
In his marriage book with Grace that came out last year, Mark detailed and owned up to a certain level of what he called "chauvinism," but his more appropriately called "misogyny," in his 'early' days of ministry. Apparently Grace was not putting out as much as he wanted/needed, and this caused all kinds of moodiness for Mark and started him on the typical ol' misogyny path of "women use their sexuality to control/shame/deprive men." This is about as unoriginal an origin of misogyny as ever there was. It's not limited to religious people by any means, but there are certain biblical/religious teachings and traditions that can bolster and justify it in someone's mind, which is evidently what's gone on with Mark.
Mark needs to get his shit together. He needs to quit his corrupting, powerful position at his increasingly bizarre and abusive church, he needs to get a crash-course in what healthy sexual relationships look like from a non-religious, science/psychology-based perspective, and he needs to fully hash out his issues with sex and gender and masculinity and femininity and reconciling his own sexual wiring with his religious convictions about marriage, monogamy and women. As a former evangelical I'm pretty well-acquainted with the mental quagmire he's gotten into, and what's amazing is how well this chilling story highlights the depths of misogynistic hatred created as a projection of his sense of thwarted sexual entitlement. (Seriously, asking this woman which one of her husband's friends she imagined f*cking?) Allllllll kinds of sexual dysfunctions and misogyny gets revealed in Mark in that one question. There's tons to unpack there, from a sense of inadequate masculinity to a virgin/whore complex about female sexual desire and so on. It's heavy stuff, it's VERY obvious, and it needs to be called out for what it is. I applaud The Stranger for taking Mark (this isn't the first time Brendan's done a good run-down of the sitch at Mars Hill) but I encourage the Seattle Times and other Seattlites to pay more attention to what's going down in their backyard.
More...
I don't get how in this day and age people are still willing to subject themselves to the totalitarianism of people like Driscoll and institutions like Mars Hill. This is America, people. You can fucking walk out of any church, or marriage situation the second you want to. Not without potentially painful consequences, but Driscoll's authority ultimately comes from those who give it to him. There's a wider network of responsibility for the harms done by Mars Hill than just Driscoll himself, however foolish and toxic of an individual he may be.
As for Driscoll himself . . . it all just sounds like a gong show at this point. The cracks are getting bigger and the dude's issues aren't too hard to piece together if you read his books and then read stories from former Mars Hill members, and have some kind of background in conservative American Protestantism.
In his marriage book with Grace that came out last year, Mark detailed and owned up to a certain level of what he called "chauvinism," but his more appropriately called "misogyny," in his 'early' days of ministry. Apparently Grace was not putting out as much as he wanted/needed, and this caused all kinds of moodiness for Mark and started him on the typical ol' misogyny path of "women use their sexuality to control/shame/deprive men." This is about as unoriginal an origin of misogyny as ever there was. It's not limited to religious people by any means, but there are certain biblical/religious teachings and traditions that can bolster and justify it in someone's mind, which is evidently what's gone on with Mark.
Mark needs to get his shit together. He needs to quit his corrupting, powerful position at his increasingly bizarre and abusive church, he needs to get a crash-course in what healthy sexual relationships look like from a non-religious, science/psychology-based perspective, and he needs to fully hash out his issues with sex and gender and masculinity and femininity and reconciling his own sexual wiring with his religious convictions about marriage, monogamy and women. As a former evangelical I'm pretty well-acquainted with the mental quagmire he's gotten into, and what's amazing is how well this chilling story highlights the depths of misogynistic hatred created as a projection of his sense of thwarted sexual entitlement. (Seriously, asking this woman which one of her husband's friends she imagined f*cking?) Allllllll kinds of sexual dysfunctions and misogyny gets revealed in Mark in that one question. There's tons to unpack there, from a sense of inadequate masculinity to a virgin/whore complex about female sexual desire and so on. It's heavy stuff, it's VERY obvious, and it needs to be called out for what it is. I applaud The Stranger for taking Mark (this isn't the first time Brendan's done a good run-down of the sitch at Mars Hill) but I encourage the Seattle Times and other Seattlites to pay more attention to what's going down in their backyard.
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