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Tuesday, June 19, 2012

Is Someone You Love Homophobic?

Posted by on Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Now there's hope.

 

Comments (18) RSS

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Zebes 1
A lifestyle choice causing real harm to our families, our kids, and our communities.
Posted by Zebes http://www.badrap.org/rescue/index.html on June 19, 2012 at 9:16 AM · Report this
2
I can't use mocking and derision anymore? That's gonna take the fun out of thanksgiving.
Posted by Large Hardon Colluder on June 19, 2012 at 9:17 AM · Report this
Fortunate 3
When is there going to be a pill we can just give them? There are a few water supplies I would be happy to introduce it into.
Posted by Fortunate on June 19, 2012 at 9:23 AM · Report this
venomlash 4
I know a guy who's a homophobe in the most literal sense of the word. He doesn't hate gay people, and he doesn't hold anything against them; they just freak him out a little.
Posted by venomlash on June 19, 2012 at 9:37 AM · Report this
5
The bell curve is way off. According to the graph, there are no completely gay homophobes. So George Rekkers is bi???
Posted by LML on June 19, 2012 at 9:50 AM · Report this
Dingo 6
I don't love homophobes. I can't wrap myself in bullshit cognitive knots of the "love the person, hate their beliefs and actions" variety.
Posted by Dingo on June 19, 2012 at 9:56 AM · Report this
7
Great news. Now, waiting to hear about the first ex-anti-gay camps!

(Damn... Somebody should do that, at least as a stunt.)

I'm pretty sure the website started as a parody, but I hope it's got legs. Why shouldn't there be a charity to cure homophobia? It's been a societally-damaging scourge for years. Besides, it could help balance out the public discourse for the lazy mainstream press.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader on June 19, 2012 at 10:25 AM · Report this
DAVIDinKENAI 8
@5: My thought, too. That chart (which conveys a good point), should be bimodal. There another peak on the far left, "gay" end of the spectrum consisting of flaming closeted cases (Marcus, Larry, etc).
Posted by DAVIDinKENAI on June 19, 2012 at 10:33 AM · Report this
Fortunate 9
"I don't love homophobes"

Just like with racists, there are all different kinds of homophobes. If someone doesn't like the idea of homosexuality, but they don't think that everyone should necessarily have to live their lives according to how they feel, and don't work to legally infringe on the rights of gay people, and doesn't discriminate in their actual day to day interactions with gay people, then I don't really have a problem with them.

I have two uncles who are racists. They are the first to admit it. But they would never be unkind to a person of a different race. They wouldn't discriminate. They wouldn't infringe on someone's rights or vote for things just to be mean.

They have preconceived, prejudiced ideas about people from other races. They are wrong, but they aren't bad people. Both would be the first to help someone in trouble or need regardless of the race of that person. But they make judgments about people based on their race.

I strongly disagree with their prejudices, but despite them they are good people and I can't help but to love them. They are a far cry from the sheet wearing Klan racists. More like a less extreme version of an Archie Bunker bigot.
Posted by Fortunate on June 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM · Report this
10
@5 & @8; The graph may account for and remove outliers, random incidences so far from the curve that they are not accounted for.
And considering many of the gay-but-anti-gay politicians are also married men, one could argue that they do in fact fall in the middle; whether they were completely repressing homosexuality, or simply attempting to repress the homosexual tendencies of their innate bisexuality is difficult to gauge.

Finally, I'm sure there are some homophobic-yet-completely-straight people who are out there. With the use of statistical averages, and the ironing out of outliers (either by exclusion, devaluation, or simply having a large enough sample group to make them insignificant), the curve seems appropriate to me. It also makes sense that it is slightly to the right of bisexual; given that those people are "mostly" straight, but due to their own insecurities regarding their sexual orientation overcompensate by becoming bigoted assholes.
Posted by Bored@School on June 19, 2012 at 10:50 AM · Report this
DAVIDinKENAI 11
Note to self (#8) and to #10: Don't overanalyze a joke.
Posted by DAVIDinKENAI on June 19, 2012 at 10:57 AM · Report this
12
@9,

How do you know what your racist uncles would or would not do to people not of their race? Perhaps you should say that to your knowledge, your uncles have not done x, y, or z. And you should also state that because of the anti-discrimination laws, your uncles can't do x, y or z to people not of their race.

Posted by Patricia Kayden on June 19, 2012 at 1:45 PM · Report this
Fortunate 13
Because I know them well. I grew up with them constantly a part of my life, and I have seen them intereact with people, and I have spoken to them about what they think. I know them well enough to know that they don't refrain from doing bad things because it is agianst the law. Neither believes harming others outside of self-defense is acceptable.

Maybe you don't know the people in your life well enough to know what they would and wouldn't do, but I know my family very well, and I know my uncles, despite their predjudices, wouldn't harm a single person unless it were in self-defense.
Posted by Fortunate on June 19, 2012 at 3:06 PM · Report this
Y.F. Redux 14
Yes, I am related to homophobes. They would never approve of bashing a gay person and intervene if they happened to witness one, they wouldn't not hire a competant gay person for a job or rent an apartment to one or not serve a gay customer, they think legislation should stay out of the bedroom, but they're still homophobes.
Posted by Y.F. Redux on June 19, 2012 at 5:18 PM · Report this
15
Why Mr Savage has to assume one *loves* all these people I just cannot divine. It would be nice to have the occasional piece of advice concerning coping with parents, siblings or other people whom one does not happen to love. It often seems that the only reason homophobic relatives can or can be expected to get over their flipouts is because they love and are loved by the outcomer in the case. The centrepiece, for instance, of the coming out advice in the Savage U finale, was to emphasize, "I love you and I know you'll get over this," which was all very pretty and got nice applause, but how does one come out to a homophobic (grand)parent one doesn't happen to love?
Posted by vennominon on June 19, 2012 at 10:20 PM · Report this
Fortunate 16
If you don't love them it's actually much easier.

"I'm gay. I know you are going to freak out. You have (x amount of time) to get over it. If you want me in your life you will get over it. If you don't get over it I am gone and you will not see me again."

When you don't love them it is much easier to put your own conditions on the situation and to walk away from the relationship if you don't get what you want from them.

The reason it is so hard for many people is because they DO love the people in their lives, even if those people aren't treating them very good after finding out they are gay. They don't want to lose them from their lives.

If you don't love them then it's actually very easy. "You don't like it? Too bad! Bye!"
Posted by Fortunate on June 20, 2012 at 9:51 AM · Report this
17
Well, I have maintained more than once that the kind thing of a family member who can't get more than halfway there is to give the unlucky outcomer something to despise rather than keep him hanging on doing the Hopeful Dance for decades (the way some people keep thinking they WILL get married in five, ten, twenty, fifty years).

I forgot, Mr Fortunate, to give you points for saying your uncles are decent people and you love them accordingly. Too many people put that the wrong way around; all their loved ones are consequently decent people. As for your uncles, I have faith in you that your confidence is on a sincere foundation(though obviously I can't say whether it's correct or not), which is more than I would say for most people producing the same defence of an -ist.
Posted by vennominon on June 20, 2012 at 6:47 PM · Report this
18
@Fortunate: I can well believe that your uncles aren't mean or cruel by nature, and I completely agree that it's possible and even common to love people who believe things that you are sure aren't true. However I think it's a mistake to think that racist or homophobic or sexist beliefs aren't harmful and won't result in discrimination just because the person holding them isn't mean. When an employer denies a deserving woman a job, or when a jury sentences an innocent black man to prison, or when a school board denies a gay man a teaching job because they're afraid they might be a pedophile, these people are often not motivated by hatred or meanness. Their inaccurate biases lead them to honestly believe they're making a good decision. They're simply incapable of seeing a woman as being as qualified as a man with similar qualifications, or they can't help being more suspicious of a black man than a white man, or they really think that gay men are more likely to be pedophiles.

As long as your uncles are never in a position where their prejudices come into play in a practical way then they may indeed be harmless, but put them on a jury or a hiring board and things may be different.
Posted by MrBAJ on June 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM · Report this

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