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News & ArtsFriday, May 4, 2012
Horrors / Religion / LGBTQITSLFA Confidential to NOM's Brian Brown: You're On, Motherfucker
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:02 PM
I will name the time and the place, per your offer, as soon as possible. Looking forward to it, NOMnuts.
4
I'm hoping I can afford tickets to this live in person. Else, please tell me the stranger Gods will livestream this.
Please. Please. I need this like WHOA!
Please. Please. I need this like WHOA!
6
$10 says this douchebag will cancel at the last minute, citing some specious concern with the venue, ala Ken Hutcherson.
But in case by some miracle he does turn up, please please please do this in Seattle so I can attend!!!
But in case by some miracle he does turn up, please please please do this in Seattle so I can attend!!!
7
Unfortunately, I think it's going to turn out like the last Great Debate, where the other side, when they learned they couldn't stack the deck, came up with myriad reasons why they couldn't appear so the event had to be canceled. Don't get me wrong! I'd almost give a testicle to watch and hear Dan shred Brown like he was making Cole Slaw for a thousand! I hope the whole thing gets Broadcast! Anyone got Rachel Maddow's number? I think she would love to be on the sidelines of this!
8
We need to start a betting pool on what kind of excuses this NOMnut will use to back out.
NOMnuts. I love that.
NOMnuts. I love that.
11
Wow! Big nuts! No idea which way this will go.
But did Savage just throw all nicety out the window and devolve this into a chance to beat the crap out of Brown verbally to the point he gives up and walks out? While that would be just desert for the meal Brown and his ilk have served, it may not be a very good PR move. Maybe Savage has had enough, and is going with, "No more Mr. Nice Guy."
Let's just make sure some money gets made, ok? This is the US, after all.
But did Savage just throw all nicety out the window and devolve this into a chance to beat the crap out of Brown verbally to the point he gives up and walks out? While that would be just desert for the meal Brown and his ilk have served, it may not be a very good PR move. Maybe Savage has had enough, and is going with, "No more Mr. Nice Guy."
Let's just make sure some money gets made, ok? This is the US, after all.
13
He should be like Rocky Balboa in Rocky IV, and do it on Xmas, for no money, in the Soviet Union...no, wait...in Texas!
15
Please, Dan, don't let this guy weasel out of it. Or if he does succeed in getting out of it, please make it abundantly clear that he is the one pulling out, and for reasons that expose his idiocy. Pleeeeeeze!
Oh, and stop calling him names until afterward, or he might claim that he is simply refusing to debate someone who cannot have a civil conversation. Just a suggestion.
Oh, and stop calling him names until afterward, or he might claim that he is simply refusing to debate someone who cannot have a civil conversation. Just a suggestion.
16
...then as the fight drags on, the newscasters covering the debate will say, "...a few cheers, now, for Dan Savage," as Savage starts to win over the crowd.
Then, after Savage wins by unleashing a series of rational blows, pummelling Brown in to submission, he'll give a speech to the crowd about change.
Then, after Savage wins by unleashing a series of rational blows, pummelling Brown in to submission, he'll give a speech to the crowd about change.
19
I agree with all those above who say there's no friggin' way Brown will actually show up. You should still totally call his bluff, though. Maybe have someone on tap to come up and argue the NOM position in his place, so it won't look unfair. Is RuPaul doing anything that night?
21
Make this a charity event with all proceeds going to the Trevor Project (or any anti-bullying organization). Then if he backs out, he'll look bad because he's screwing a charity that helps kids.
23
Dan,
You need to keep a record of these.
Win 0
Lose 0
Draw 0
Other side threw down the gauntlet and then ran away 1 (soon to be 2)
You need to keep a record of these.
Win 0
Lose 0
Draw 0
Other side threw down the gauntlet and then ran away 1 (soon to be 2)
24
He so won't show. If he did,though, he'd better wear a Depends. Dan would argue the shit out of that guy's ass.
26
@21 - That wouldn't work, as this guy seems to be on the record as thinking that any anti-bullying organization is just a front for the radical gayification and atheist purification of our nation.
But oh man, I so hope this happens.
But oh man, I so hope this happens.
27
Be sure to choose a place with metal detectors. It wouldn't be surprising if his followers arrived packing.
28
As for time and place ...
How about 3PM on July 29, 2012 in Dore Alley, San Francisco?
http://www.folsomstreetfair.com/alley/
As for time and place ...
How about 3PM on July 29, 2012 in Dore Alley, San Francisco?
http://www.folsomstreetfair.com/alley/
32
I can't decide if my favorite popcorn flavor is Parmesan cheese, nutritional yeast, or Japanese togorashi pepper. Let's make all three!
34
It should be WITHOUT a live audience, but like the presidential debates. very specific questions from a moderator, I CANT WAIT>
35
(Dan uses frequent-flyer miles to book 2-hour charter on Virgin Galactic, stops at Ace Hardware to buy 2 rolls of Gorilla Tape...)
36
If this happens... it is going to go down in history.
Set the date so that I have enough time to visit and watch!
Right on Dan!
Set the date so that I have enough time to visit and watch!
Right on Dan!
38
Joel Connely has already picked this up. It is on the Seattle Times website, second title from the top on the opening page.
41
It's not going to happen. All he said was any time, any place, so he can't use time and place as excuses, but he can say that the challenge was made with the understanding that terms would have to be established, and Dan and he won't be able to agree to terms.
As for money, why would anyone want to pay for this? The spectacle would be pretty awesome, since I'm confident Dan would wipe his ass on the ground. But it seems that any proceeds would be split between NOM and Dan's charity, and I wouldn't want a cent to go to NOM. (And I think profit-sharing would be one of those unstated conditions, so he'd say, no, Dan can't set the time and then take 100% of the gate for It Gets Better.)
As for money, why would anyone want to pay for this? The spectacle would be pretty awesome, since I'm confident Dan would wipe his ass on the ground. But it seems that any proceeds would be split between NOM and Dan's charity, and I wouldn't want a cent to go to NOM. (And I think profit-sharing would be one of those unstated conditions, so he'd say, no, Dan can't set the time and then take 100% of the gate for It Gets Better.)
42
Hooray hooray!! No way he will show up, but if he does OH YES PLEASE do it in Seattle so I can be there!!
43
YES! Oh damn I so want to see this...but, like many others, all my money bets that BB chickens out.
44
@ Dan
Wow. This will be interesting. Tell him that he needs to address the biblical view of pastor Sean Harris' sermon/ joke on punching four year olds, please.
I'd drop calling him names. That's feeding what seems to be a persecution fetish that many, not all, Christians grumble about.
If he shows or not, he's likely use this as a way to raise funds.
Invest in brown towels. I wise friend once told me that if you wrestle with some full of shit then you get covered in shit. You know him.
You want to borrow one of my Bibles. At one point I had at least 3 translations?
Wow. This will be interesting. Tell him that he needs to address the biblical view of pastor Sean Harris' sermon/ joke on punching four year olds, please.
I'd drop calling him names. That's feeding what seems to be a persecution fetish that many, not all, Christians grumble about.
If he shows or not, he's likely use this as a way to raise funds.
Invest in brown towels. I wise friend once told me that if you wrestle with some full of shit then you get covered in shit. You know him.
You want to borrow one of my Bibles. At one point I had at least 3 translations?
45
Thanks, Dan. You haven't given us enough bad press this last week. Your decision to double down and enrich NOM's fundraising is a bad one. Brian Brown doesn't care whether he beats you or not in a debate. What he cares about is getting up on stage with someone he can portray as an anti-Christian poster boy. You're handing him a gift just by putting your name in the same sentence as him.
47
Do it, Dan! I'd love to see this. If you're face to face it MUST be taped so we can watch it on youtube!
48
# 41 is right. Brown will pretend to agree about a time and place, and then make some kind of insanely one-sided demand about the terms under which the debate must be conducted. Then he'll try to claim Dan is the one who's not being reasonable. Prepare a strategy for that, Dan, 'cause these NOM bozos are nothing if not predictable.
49
Hitch would have been the perfect moderator, but since he's lost to us now, I nominate PZ Myers, Richard Dawkins, Rebecca Watson, or Jen "Blag Hag" McCreight.
If they're busy, then I propose Adam and Jamie of Mythbusters. At least Jamie will be able to keep a straight face. (He scientifically proved a week or two ago that he has no expressions.)
If they're busy, then I propose Adam and Jamie of Mythbusters. At least Jamie will be able to keep a straight face. (He scientifically proved a week or two ago that he has no expressions.)
50
Best part of the debate: Brian Brown forced to admit that he thinks parts of the bible are bullshit too! Lobster eating, Gingrich adulterer supporting, non-slave owning DOUCHEBAG.
53
I tried to post my comment on the NOM website that you should have an escrow deposit contract with them to discourage backing out or impolite shouting down during the show. Still awaiting moderation after four hours. I guess they don't like that idea.
55
Dan, don't forget to read these books before you go:
1.God: The Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist, V.Stenger(physicist)
2.Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith, A. Thompson(psychiatrist)
3.Religion Explained, P.Boyer(cognitive anthropologist)
4.The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails, Loftus, Barker
5.Letter to a Christian Nation, Sam Harris
1.God: The Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist, V.Stenger(physicist)
2.Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith, A. Thompson(psychiatrist)
3.Religion Explained, P.Boyer(cognitive anthropologist)
4.The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails, Loftus, Barker
5.Letter to a Christian Nation, Sam Harris
56
I was hoping for this. Dan'll make mincemeat of the poor soul, but I won't shed a tear of pity. He deserves it. Dan's a jillion times smarter than he is and probably better informed about the Bible too. I can't wait!
57
I'm with @52: I thought somebody had accepted Dan's choicer challenge. Oh well, this will be good too, if BB shows up. I think @41 and @48 are right. It's a classic right-wing technique.
58
@55, that's the wrong approach.
Brown would like nothing more than to give Savage a podium from which he argues against faith. Brown wants to make it "the Gays vs. the Christians," much like Osama bin Laden wanted to see "the West vs. Islam."
Brown doesn't care what SLOG readers think after the debate. Brown wants footage that he can use to solicit money from his supporters.
Brown would like nothing more than to give Savage a podium from which he argues against faith. Brown wants to make it "the Gays vs. the Christians," much like Osama bin Laden wanted to see "the West vs. Islam."
Brown doesn't care what SLOG readers think after the debate. Brown wants footage that he can use to solicit money from his supporters.
59
Don't forget to have a competent moderator and set up the debate as an actual debate with rules agreed on beforehand.
60
Oh please, PUHLEEEEEEEZE let this be in a large public venue with ALL media outlets welcome!!!!
This has to exponentially be the largest "foot in mouth" I've ever witnessed in my 47 years on this planet by this sinful "christian" glutton!!!!
This has to exponentially be the largest "foot in mouth" I've ever witnessed in my 47 years on this planet by this sinful "christian" glutton!!!!
61
I haven't been this excited since...well...I'm not sure I've EVER been this excited. Oh, Dan - I love you Dan!!!!!!!!
63
Oh please sell tickets to this. Make it pay per view with all proceeds to go to Trevor project. Yes. I can't wait to see this, BrownButt doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.
64
OMGIWILLDRIVEALLNIGHTANDPAYMONEYTOSEETHIS. Holy shit. Holy. Motherfucking. Shit. I would thank the the good sweet baby Jesus, but that just seems wrong in this context. So I'll just say PLEASE BE SURE TO HAVE IT IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST WHERE I CAN SEE IT LIVE. PLEASE. Or video. LOVE YOU DAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
65
@58: I'm with you, and I also think that 49 has the wrong approach. I feel like it would be better to have a moderator who is neutral, or at least has no obvious sympathy to one side or the other. Gary Wills seems like a good choice- a man of faith, but not uncritical of the Church.
66
The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, Inc. of San Francisco cordially invite you to hold the debate here in SF at the Gay Community Center. The Sisters would moderate the event and make all the arrangements.
Sister Zsa Zsa Glamour, SPI
zsa@thesisters.org
Sister Zsa Zsa Glamour, SPI
zsa@thesisters.org
67
Brian Brown may be an easily-flustered bigot, but he's no idiot. He won't show, he'll cancel, he'll make any excuse he can including hiring a thug to break his leg on the steps of the buidling, but he won't make good. That's for sure. Bigots are cowards.
69
You are a wonderful example of intelligence, compassion, and courage, Dan. Thank you for standing up and speaking out for truth.
70
Would have it been THAT hard for Dan Savage to show a little class in his response. I'm all for "Bring It On" but name calling just makes him look like a bullying juvenile.
71
Yeah, I kind of agree with the other posters. Brown said that DAN could name the time and place, but unless it's on Fox News with Megyn or one of the other lap dogs moderating, this shit ain't gonna happen. Those folks only like to debate when the deck is stacked for them. Any other location will be "well, we didn't want to go there because THEY'RE biased!" If the debate DOES happen, Brown will be on Fox News within the hour following the debate making it sound like he won.
72
Maybe it's just me, but would have been so tough for Dan Savage to respond to the challenge without resorting yet again to bullying-like name-calling that makes him look juvenile?
75
Oh please, @70/72, if Brown's eyes are so sensitive he can't handle seeing a little pre-debate trash-talk, then he's already lost.
79
I. Am. So. Happy. PLEASE let it be in Seattle.
Ohhhhhhh. Oh I just thought of something. Could we have Matt in Denver or Venomlash vs Seattleblues as an opening act? Although he'd probably punk out too. Ah well.
Ohhhhhhh. Oh I just thought of something. Could we have Matt in Denver or Venomlash vs Seattleblues as an opening act? Although he'd probably punk out too. Ah well.
80
Daniel Savage,
Engaging Brian Brown would be like swatting a fly with shovel. DO IT SOON!
Love,
Your erstwhile fan
Engaging Brian Brown would be like swatting a fly with shovel. DO IT SOON!
Love,
Your erstwhile fan
81
Pick a well informed neutral moderator and 7 equally well informed neutral judges approved by both sides and allow each one to ask a question. Trade off who answers the question first and have a preset time limit, 3 minutes per answer, and make the judging a point system based on knowledge of the subject, most well informed answer, etc. Allow a 2 minute closing argument each. Add up the points, if Brian wins Dan will go to Sunday mass with him and The Stranger will not use Brian's name on SLOG for 1 year. If Dan wins, Brian has to go with Dan on an overnight stay to an LGBT youth crisis center and NOM must post an It Gets Better video of Dan's choice.
Just thinking.
Just thinking.
82
Dan dear, would you do me the honor of letting me "hold your gold" during this delicious altercation?
83
Unfortunately, it probably will never happen just like that old fart Hutcherson cancelled so will Brown.
84
Rip off his head and shit down his neck, Dan! (metaphorically speaking of course)And when you're through, sing this --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEKuGcmW7…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEKuGcmW7…
85
He is deformed, crooked, old and sere,
Ill-faced, worse bodied, shapeless everywhere;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind;
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
(The Comedy of Errors)
Smack that nasty goof down good, Dan!
Ill-faced, worse bodied, shapeless everywhere;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind;
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
(The Comedy of Errors)
Smack that nasty goof down good, Dan!
86
So where to hold this debate? I'm thinking live from the infamous men's room at the Minneapolis Airport. Or Newt Gingrich's bedroom.
87
Make sure the debate starts off with each of you getting a fair few minutes to introduce yourselves. Use your introduction to tell the audience about your relationship with your mom and your catholic roots. It'll make Brown look like an asshole by disproving his victimization fetish before the debate's even started.
88
This came right out of the Bill O'Reilly book of fake challenges, and chest pounding Republican dumb shit.
90
also...keep being brave. I looked at that nom page and some of the comments and with all due respect to them....THEY ARE NUTTIER THAN THE JIF HEADQUARTERS. Refrain from what can be seen as crass language, but speak confidently and truthfully...and respectfully. Simple basic truths can shatter their arguments and expose contradictions....they revel in intimidation and refusal to acknowledge certain points. you are in the right and as a gay man I'm happy to have someone like you representing me..You are doing great. MWAH. Thanks.
92
Madison Square Garden with live television coverage on pay-per-view! $50K to each of you with the balance to a legitimate, secular, apolitical charity (e.g. Unicef, Doctors Without Borders, International Red Cross, etc.)
93
As great as it would be to see this in person, my vote is no live audience. No cheers, jeers, or gladiatorial ring - just good questions and serious debate. If the NOM supporters are there, the cheering and boos will undermine Dan's logic and interrupt him frequently. Either no audience, or strict rules against audience participation.
95
I know that Dan will absolutely trash any of NOM's feeble arguments against gay marriage. HOWEVER ... I hope that Dan will choose his words carefully. NOM and its allies have shown they have no qualms about taking bits and pieces out of context and portraying gays as a bunch of rabid, profane, religion-hating fascists while ignoring any valid point we ever have to make.
So Dan ... you can win this argument. PLEASE ... for the sake of the cause ... reign in the salty language and generic diatribes and instead rely on your eloquence and passion as well as the TRUTH!
So Dan ... you can win this argument. PLEASE ... for the sake of the cause ... reign in the salty language and generic diatribes and instead rely on your eloquence and passion as well as the TRUTH!
96
i'm sure you know plenty of progressive biblical scholars, theologians and pastors who can give you some tips -- but if you don't, my church, old first reformed united church of christ in philadelphia, is full of them and i'd be very happy to put you in touch!
97
You will clean his clock concerning substance. Try to limit the use of four-letter words because that's the only thing he will obsess about, during the debate and later, in an attempt to detract from the fact that you're right.
98
Savage is quick, witty, charismatic, charming, and informed. I cannot imagine him being bested in any way by Brian Brown.
99
Dan, you will clean his clock as far as substance. Try to limit the four-letter words because he will obsess about that the during and after the debate in an attempt to distract from the fact that you are right.
100
#99 is right on that score: Why give him ammunition, which he is looking for to post on his NOM blog? Keep four-letter words and sexual references out of it; just go with your knowledge on the values (of Christianity) which place love, diversity, and human progress above the letter of the law.
101
Not trying to be a nudge, but as this is such an important opportunity, just wanted to add that you could disarm Brown by being very respectful to him. Since his goal is to "expose" you, that would indeed be disarming, to be very gracious and deferential toward him (while drawing the sword, naturally.) Of course, you could also wear this on your T-shirt:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2…
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2…
102
@95 I'd like Dan to get that part out of the way right up front, and say the words "Fuck you," as part of a denouncement of the Religious Right's "we're victims!" strategy.
He could say the words without actually invoking the insult. For example, something like, "Your side gets all indignant when one of your intended emotional-abuse victims looks at you, rejects your specious logic, and says, "Fuck you!" Suddenly, you act like you're the victims, that someone is trying to restrict your religious freedom, that there's an organized conspiracy against you. What drama queens! You should know that's nonsense, Alice-In-Wonderland Red Queen thinking. You're either cynically manipulating your followers, or institutionally paranoid. Maybe both. But, I'm a nice guy, so I wouldn't tell you to go fuck yourself, even if you did deserve it. On the other hand, your Bible does tell you just that."
And let the games begin. By the way, as the challenged party, Dan deserves the first statement.
He could say the words without actually invoking the insult. For example, something like, "Your side gets all indignant when one of your intended emotional-abuse victims looks at you, rejects your specious logic, and says, "Fuck you!" Suddenly, you act like you're the victims, that someone is trying to restrict your religious freedom, that there's an organized conspiracy against you. What drama queens! You should know that's nonsense, Alice-In-Wonderland Red Queen thinking. You're either cynically manipulating your followers, or institutionally paranoid. Maybe both. But, I'm a nice guy, so I wouldn't tell you to go fuck yourself, even if you did deserve it. On the other hand, your Bible does tell you just that."
And let the games begin. By the way, as the challenged party, Dan deserves the first statement.
103
I'd like to add my support of no audience. Also, too, hold the debate in Hutto, TX, so I can see it live.
GO HIPPOS!
GO HIPPOS!
106
@41, seems like a reasonable compromise re: proceeds (after any incurred expenses such as venue and security) would be for Dan and NOMnuts to agree on a worthy local charity not related to the issue. Food Lifeline or something.
108
Would you debate the other Brown (author of A Queer Thing Happened to America)?
http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbr…
http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbr…
http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbr…
http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbr…
111
Dan, Please be certain to secure a venue where the debate will go on for at least 60 minutes, and preferably 90. If your "debate" is just a 15 minute segment on some talk show, Brian should be able to hold it together for the 6 minutes he'll have to spew. But if he's under the bright lights for 60 or 90, and has to come up with 25 or 40 minutes of tortured logic, the result will be soundbites will be seen on the TV box for years and years to come.
113
language.. language.. language ?.. whatever.. fundamentalist bigots love to cower behind a fake civility of words when it suits them, but trust me the rest of us don't have any words as powerful as the ones they combine to demean us whenever they get the chance. dan ain't no fool and knows what to say, to whom, and when so... as we say in the hood 'dan .. you do YOU !'
114
The topic of the debate should be specific, and it should be about Savage's speech at the Journalism Convention. This is what caused Brown to issue the challenge in the first place so he would be in a poor position to refuse this as the topic.
Also, as much as I love the title of this post, Savage should be on his best behavior until after the debate, or until after Brown chickens out.
As for what should Savage say during the debate... I think all he really has to do is read the Bible.
Also, as much as I love the title of this post, Savage should be on his best behavior until after the debate, or until after Brown chickens out.
As for what should Savage say during the debate... I think all he really has to do is read the Bible.
115
I hope Dan will do this debate with a view to winning over the other side. Trying to come in like an avenging angel of gaydom, throwing rhetorical bombs and confounding the opponent with clever put-downs may be cathartic for all the commenters talking about getting orgasms thinking about this, but bigger things can be achieved here. This is a rare occasion when Savage can get some NOMsters to tune in to his ideas and hear them, so he can come to this with a view to surprising everyone with his politeness and decency. Fox will undoubtedly edit out anything from Savage that sounds half-convincing, as they did with his people-ignore-bullshit-in-the-Bible speech, but still, it's worth trying.
116
Dan is brutally frank, unassailibly intelligent, wildly funny (when warranted), and, most of all, absolutely courageous. He cuts through the bullshit to get the real core of an issue. Obviously, the walk-out was staged and I wouldn't be at all surprised if those so-called "journalism" students were paid money for their little act. Anyone choose to investigate? For thousands and thousands of years biblical language has been used to terrify and control people. Enough! We're taking our fucking destiny back!
118
Brian Brown has 7 children? I bet some of would willing to step in to replace Brian Brown if they had to! UGH! Brian Brown perpetuated! Brian Brown has currently 3 health issues against him: obesity, smoking, and a vile, hideously anti-gay temperament, so who knows what his future will be.
119
Dan will ultimately lose the debate before it starts because he can't keep himself from tossing out insults and swearing. He won't lose it with the average Stranger reader, like myself, but he will lose it on the national stage. Keep it above the belt Dan (lol), and you got this one.
120
The reply from Brown will go something like this, once Dan has named the time and place:
"I will happily debate you at _____ on ______ at ______ pm, as you have stated. To ensure that this will be a peaceable event that will not erupt into violence by homosexual bigots like yourself, you are required to hire security personnel from the neutral security company of my choosing. Tickets will be sold for this event, with 50% allotted to each of us to sell to our supporters, and because it is my challenge to you that brings about this debate, I will be entitled to 100% of the gross receipts for my organization."
"I will happily debate you at _____ on ______ at ______ pm, as you have stated. To ensure that this will be a peaceable event that will not erupt into violence by homosexual bigots like yourself, you are required to hire security personnel from the neutral security company of my choosing. Tickets will be sold for this event, with 50% allotted to each of us to sell to our supporters, and because it is my challenge to you that brings about this debate, I will be entitled to 100% of the gross receipts for my organization."
121
Dan, my dear, dear friend: Please select DALLAS, TEXAS, for the "debate" with that gasbag from NOM.
I ask this not because I live in Dallas (okay, I do...), but because we can offer the.vastness of the AA Center (where the b-ball team plays), a horde of right-wing "Christians" who would faint dead away at the notion of having their faith questioned, and yet it's the "bluest" county in all of Texas (except Austin's).
Also, the least "gay friendly" company in America (ExxonMobile) is based nearby, Univision is based here for coverage in Spanish, ... Ah, I'll just cut the crap and admit that having you in our great city would be a distinct honor. And I'd buy lots of tix for friends and family!
Signed: a fan forever.
I ask this not because I live in Dallas (okay, I do...), but because we can offer the.vastness of the AA Center (where the b-ball team plays), a horde of right-wing "Christians" who would faint dead away at the notion of having their faith questioned, and yet it's the "bluest" county in all of Texas (except Austin's).
Also, the least "gay friendly" company in America (ExxonMobile) is based nearby, Univision is based here for coverage in Spanish, ... Ah, I'll just cut the crap and admit that having you in our great city would be a distinct honor. And I'd buy lots of tix for friends and family!
Signed: a fan forever.
122
There's a number of ways that ticket distribution and proceeds could be handled:
1) Tickets could be given away first come, first serve (like they were for the Hutcherson-Savage debate).
2) Tickets could be sold at a cost estimated to just cover expenses related to the debate, with no profit.
3) Each side could be allocated half the tickets, to distribute as they see fit. They could sell or give away the tickets, and could do what they want with any profits. If both sides sell all their tickets, for the same price, this would have the same net effect as spliting the profit, but purchasers would only be directly supporting the side they purchase tickets from.
1) Tickets could be given away first come, first serve (like they were for the Hutcherson-Savage debate).
2) Tickets could be sold at a cost estimated to just cover expenses related to the debate, with no profit.
3) Each side could be allocated half the tickets, to distribute as they see fit. They could sell or give away the tickets, and could do what they want with any profits. If both sides sell all their tickets, for the same price, this would have the same net effect as spliting the profit, but purchasers would only be directly supporting the side they purchase tickets from.
124
It has to be in DC. No audience. Panel of judges with questions, and a highly respected, impeccably neutral judge. Special broadcast on public television, with other stations covering in part or in full. No tickets. A declared winner (6 panelists and the moderator vote, so there's no tie). No commercials. No "winnings."
Maybe at Georgetown? That's the most secular-friendly Catholic institution I know, and it's on Brown's turf. And how about Gwen Ifill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Ifill) as moderator? And the panel should have some sort of minimum threshold of expertise, the way it's done in court; like being affiliated (teaching/research) with an major, accredited university, or having been published in a PEER-reviewed journal, or having a medical degree.
I, too, think Dan will do well. But I'm also worried that it might veer toward the dramatic -- and that won't be good.
Maybe at Georgetown? That's the most secular-friendly Catholic institution I know, and it's on Brown's turf. And how about Gwen Ifill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Ifill) as moderator? And the panel should have some sort of minimum threshold of expertise, the way it's done in court; like being affiliated (teaching/research) with an major, accredited university, or having been published in a PEER-reviewed journal, or having a medical degree.
I, too, think Dan will do well. But I'm also worried that it might veer toward the dramatic -- and that won't be good.
126
Dan, don't you just happen to have a TV show? Perhaps a "Very Special Episode" is in order? He did say you name the time and place.
128
Oh Dan, PLEASE make the debate in Madison, WI (the crime scene of one of NOM's rallys). I'll buy ya a slice of Ian's Pizza.
129
Oh this would be too too wonderful. I live in Detroit and would travel just about anywhere for this sort of thing. (I'm a debate nut to begin with, and a bible-literate atheist to boot.)
130
Go get him, Mr. Savage. It will interesting to see if that low life has the balls to stand up to you face to face in front of real live people instead of computer screens. I am sure that he is a typical Right Wing Gutless Wonder. Always ready to go to war as long as it's with someone elses body or children. Roger in Denver
131
You understand that brian the tool will claim victory regardless of the reality. The thumpers play science cards when it conveneint, and some weird ultimate truth "god is speaking to me and you can't refute that" kind of nonsense. I expect more of the same in this "debate."
132
@126 I like the way you think. A lot. The larger audience this debate takes place in the better.
134
Please make sure it is televised for those of us who would like to have viewing parties. Dreaming up drinking games.
135
Best thing you can do is open by asking him if slavery and murdering your children is bullshit. If he agrees, you're halfway there. If he disagrees, you've already won.
136
Awesome - well played Dan. I'm rooting for you. My humble suggestion? Brush up on the Art of War!
138
Did Brown name a time and a place yet, or did he totally puss out as expected, since the "place" wasn't Fox News?
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