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News & ArtsTuesday, April 24, 2012
Science / Money What Do You Think of the Hunt for Space Gold?
Posted by Paul Constant on Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Goldy mentioned this in the Morning News: James Cameron and Google are teaming up to mine asteroids. They're looking for water and precious metals in outer space:
A water-rich asteroid would greatly enhance the large-scale exploration of the solar system," explained Anderson in a news release. "Water has many uses in space. For instance, it would not only be used for hydration, but also would be broken down into oxygen and hydrogen, for breathable air and rocket propellant."...Many asteroids are also rich in resources like gold and platinum, which, unlike water, are not abundant here on Earth. According to Peter Diamandis — founder of X Prize and co-chairman of Planetary Resources — one sizable asteroid could contain more platinum-group metals than has ever been mined in the whole of human history.
"When the availability of these materials increases," explains Diamandis, "the cost will reduce on everything, including defibrillators, hand-held devices, TV and computer monitors, catalysts; and with the abundance of these metals we'll be able to use them in mass production, like in automotive fuel cells."
My first thought on reading this article this morning was that Ron Paul must be slowly dying inside: One asteroid's worth of gold could sink his precious gold standard, pretty much forever. My second thought is that I wish NASA was doing this, and not a private enterprise: Space mining could make a tiny handful of already-wealthy people impossibly rich. So now it's up to you:
1
Seattle will grow rich off of space prospectors, most of whom will lose their shirts in their pursuit if Space Gold.
2
You're right -- this outrageously optimistic pipe dream poses a serious threat to Ron Paul's outrageously optimistic pipe dream.
3
Not profitable in our lifetimes, but new technology will come from it regardless, and everyone benefits.
5
I heard the founder being interviewed on BBC this afternoon. He pretty much admitted it was going to be, "a decade or two" before they'd be able to get a rocket up.
He also said that they expect to be making way more money from selling asteroid water to other space missions than they will from mineral extraction. Quickie-Mart...in space!!
He also said that they expect to be making way more money from selling asteroid water to other space missions than they will from mineral extraction. Quickie-Mart...in space!!
6
Finding it and mining it is the easy part. It would be vastly energy expensive to move anything back to earth. I think it's great that they're investing in space, but think it's going to be more along the line of Cameron's trip to the bottom of the ocean - doing it just to see what can be done.
7
I don't understand the "NASA should do it" argument. What, go identify mineral-rich asteroids, shepherd them into orbit, mine them... and what then? Open a store?
NASA should do science. The fact that this company is attempting the mission means they believe the science is settled enough and commerce can be profitable. Why would we want NASA to do that any more than we'd want them to drill oil wells or operate fast food joints?
NASA should do science. The fact that this company is attempting the mission means they believe the science is settled enough and commerce can be profitable. Why would we want NASA to do that any more than we'd want them to drill oil wells or operate fast food joints?
8
Hmm. My first thought is, what's the status of national territorial claims on asteroids? Wouldn't they have to be under the jurisdiction of some nation first? I don't believe any international agencies of any kind are in the business of regulating mining and drilling permits. Nobody's just going to let companies go up there themselves, especially when there are fees and taxes to be made from it.
My next thought is that if there IS an abundance of gold, diamonds, or whatever, they'll try to keep it a secret as much as they can - as Paul says, if it's as common as quartz it will be just as worthless. Never mind Ron Paul, that's going to be a major bummer for the company that develops this project.
My next thought is that if there IS an abundance of gold, diamonds, or whatever, they'll try to keep it a secret as much as they can - as Paul says, if it's as common as quartz it will be just as worthless. Never mind Ron Paul, that's going to be a major bummer for the company that develops this project.
9
@6, that's what I was thinking. It's far too expensive energy-wise to mine anything in space. Where it becomes realistic is if they can bring the asteroid here. That means you'd better have your navigation down to the nanometer; if you drop a hot rock on midtown Manhattan, you have just destroyed the American economy; if you drop it the Ka'aba in Mecca, you've just ended the world. An asteroid is not a spaceship with retrorockets, either.
I think Cameron's involvement means that the recovery of the asteroids will be IN the deep ocean.
I think Cameron's involvement means that the recovery of the asteroids will be IN the deep ocean.
11
Engineering problems are solved by people taking apparently wild gambles on solutions. Success or failure, important lessons are learned and collateral benefits gained.
If this isn't that, I don't know what is.
Even if their investment doesn't yield immediate quarterly profits - and it won't - they're investing (remember what that word actually means, capitalists?) in a venture and a process that'll hopefully, one day not too far off, remind us all, collectively, that space is out there, waiting for us.
The fact that it's exclusively a bunch of older white men is unfortunate, but if they're the ones that can do it, then hey, at least they're doin' it.
If this isn't that, I don't know what is.
Even if their investment doesn't yield immediate quarterly profits - and it won't - they're investing (remember what that word actually means, capitalists?) in a venture and a process that'll hopefully, one day not too far off, remind us all, collectively, that space is out there, waiting for us.
The fact that it's exclusively a bunch of older white men is unfortunate, but if they're the ones that can do it, then hey, at least they're doin' it.
12
Actually, The Gold Standard relies on keeping gold at a consistent, stable, and well below market value price. This would be a fairly large boon to his plans for that archaic, useless system of controlling the current and ridiculous monetary policy based on Freedman's soon to be proven failed ideas (just like his Supply-side economics ideas have already had done to them).
If you're gonna take a dig at someone, you should really know about the thing you're using to try and denigrate them. Just sayin' (and, the idea of Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck doing real space mining is awesome)
If you're gonna take a dig at someone, you should really know about the thing you're using to try and denigrate them. Just sayin' (and, the idea of Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck doing real space mining is awesome)
14
Also, if my post didn't make this clear, I would vote for answer #1 in the poll a hundred times if I could. Space makes me the happiest boy!
16
@ 6: FAIL! Energy is cheap in space. The expensive part is getting the reaction mass up there.
Oh, wait. They would be sitting on a huge effing mountain of free reaction mass!! Melt some of the water, run it through a bunch of magnetohydrodynamic thrusters and it's Fedex in Space!
Really, why do all the messy, smelly and potentially dangerous smelting and refining here, when you could do it in vacuum, under microgravity conditions?
Coolest story of the year.
Oh, wait. They would be sitting on a huge effing mountain of free reaction mass!! Melt some of the water, run it through a bunch of magnetohydrodynamic thrusters and it's Fedex in Space!
Really, why do all the messy, smelly and potentially dangerous smelting and refining here, when you could do it in vacuum, under microgravity conditions?
Coolest story of the year.
17
If they manage to somehow bring back some Helium-3 they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
I actually saw an interesting theory on how this could be made viable to get there and back again if they could simply mine their fuel Out There.
I actually saw an interesting theory on how this could be made viable to get there and back again if they could simply mine their fuel Out There.
18
I think it's a good idea, and I hope they're not too early.
Also, forget about the monetary effect of gold, and think about what abundant platinum would do for the fuel cell industry. You want to stop using oil? Here's one way.
Also, forget about the monetary effect of gold, and think about what abundant platinum would do for the fuel cell industry. You want to stop using oil? Here's one way.
19
@8 no legality or current treaty would really apply, I would think. If I took a rocket up and came back with $5,000,0000,000 in Helium-3 and platinum metals, I can't imagine any nation having claim over it except the USA for tax purposes.
20
I think I am the most anti-humans-in-space science nerd there is. We should stay on our own rock.
21
Oh, no! "Space mining could make a tiny handful of already-wealthy people impossibly rich." This sentiment is fucking pathetic. It really shines a light on the fact that some people are just angry that wealthy people exist at all. These people are talking about flying off into fucking SPACE and creating wealth at the expense of nobody, IN A FUCKING VACUUM (both literally and figuratively, poetically enough). And that upsets you because they should apparently hang back and wait until we collectively get our shit together and do it as a public project. Christ, what an asshole.
22
@20, are you one of those voluntary extinction types?
Because, otherwise... what about the inevitability of a global extinction event? One day sooner or later there'll be an asteroid, or a supervolcano, or runaway warming or cooling, or a gamma ray burst, or just a particularly big solar flare, and we're done for, here on this rock. Humanity is gone and forgotten, because we didn't back up anywhere else.
Are you just, you know, cool with that?
Because, otherwise... what about the inevitability of a global extinction event? One day sooner or later there'll be an asteroid, or a supervolcano, or runaway warming or cooling, or a gamma ray burst, or just a particularly big solar flare, and we're done for, here on this rock. Humanity is gone and forgotten, because we didn't back up anywhere else.
Are you just, you know, cool with that?
24
I think this is good news on balance. I'm not convinced NASA should be getting into the mining business. Better to let some private company do it, and tax the shit out of them.
I'm a little dubious of the economics of this. They are hoping that mining expensive platinum metals will pay off. But the only reason these metals are super expensive is because of their rarity. If you suddenly dump a few hundred pounds of any rare metal on the market, the price will drop dramatically, wouldn't i? Thus dramatically reducing their potential for profit?
Further out, it is probably a worthwhile thing to explore. If you can mine water and metals in space, you then open up the possibility of constructing objects (satellites, exploration vehicles, moon bases) in space rather than constructing everything on the earth's surface and then having to launch it into space.
I'm a little dubious of the economics of this. They are hoping that mining expensive platinum metals will pay off. But the only reason these metals are super expensive is because of their rarity. If you suddenly dump a few hundred pounds of any rare metal on the market, the price will drop dramatically, wouldn't i? Thus dramatically reducing their potential for profit?
Further out, it is probably a worthwhile thing to explore. If you can mine water and metals in space, you then open up the possibility of constructing objects (satellites, exploration vehicles, moon bases) in space rather than constructing everything on the earth's surface and then having to launch it into space.
25
Murray: "Imagine a planet full of coal. You get up there, oh my God, it's coal everywhere. Imagine how much that would be worth."
Bret: "What about a planet of, um, diamonds and rubies?"
Murray: "Well, it would be nice. A lot of things would be nice, Bret, particularly if they were real."
Bret: "What about a planet of, um, diamonds and rubies?"
Murray: "Well, it would be nice. A lot of things would be nice, Bret, particularly if they were real."
27
You know, it would be pretty great if we found enough gold that we could stop pretending it had some kind of magical intrinsic value, and put it all to use in electronics instead, where it's actually good for something.
29
Forget platinum or gold. Go for the rare earths! You could make a nice bit of profit off a mountain sized chunk of, say, Yttrium.
30
@12: I'm not sure how I see that the repeated dumping of asteroid-loads of gold into the market would count as a "consistent, stable supply." Think of the uncertainty when the first rock is brought back -- how much gold is there, and will it even be recoverable at all? It would add huge volatility and uncertainty to the gold market. Repeat every few months? years?
31
You have to admit, seeing the market price of gold falling to $25 an ounce would be hysterically funny, though all those gold-hoarders would probably come rocking out of their underground compounds with weapons on full auto.
32
They may discover new elements that don't exist on Earth. They had better because little could be worth the expense.
33
Nope, never gonna happen. And it's absolutely impossible that a shoestring little start-up company like Apple could become the wealthiest company in the world in just 30 years also.
36
@24 - I'm no expert, but I imagine the answer depends on what is brought back, and in what amount. Diamonds aren't particularly rare here on Earth, but distributors have been very successful at controlling the market for them.
Short of golden asteroids bursting over our home and raining nuggets down upon each and every one of us, I can't imagine what amount of gold it would take to significantly dilute the value of the one thing on Earth that's always been of great value.
I'm probably wrong, but since I'm ending this post by asking you to play that Aerosmith song from that one movie where Bruce Willis dies nuking a space nugget, I'm sure you'll all be too choked up to call me on it.
Short of golden asteroids bursting over our home and raining nuggets down upon each and every one of us, I can't imagine what amount of gold it would take to significantly dilute the value of the one thing on Earth that's always been of great value.
I'm probably wrong, but since I'm ending this post by asking you to play that Aerosmith song from that one movie where Bruce Willis dies nuking a space nugget, I'm sure you'll all be too choked up to call me on it.
38
@30
As long as the price is stable and low, that's all that is really needed (and, the added supply, with that low price, would help to stop hoarding like you got back in the day...and, no one stays on The Gold Standard anyway. As soon as they go to war and need money, they jump right off it...the increased supply could also help that a bit. BTW - I think the Gold Standard is stupid, but then again, I actually understand it.)
Also, as my man Doug from the bay says at @36 above, depending on the market structure, supply may have very little correlation to price in the end (and, the diamond market is awesome and an awesome example of that...DeBeers is straight pimpin').
As long as the price is stable and low, that's all that is really needed (and, the added supply, with that low price, would help to stop hoarding like you got back in the day...and, no one stays on The Gold Standard anyway. As soon as they go to war and need money, they jump right off it...the increased supply could also help that a bit. BTW - I think the Gold Standard is stupid, but then again, I actually understand it.)
Also, as my man Doug from the bay says at @36 above, depending on the market structure, supply may have very little correlation to price in the end (and, the diamond market is awesome and an awesome example of that...DeBeers is straight pimpin').
40
@37 - As do I. Or, I think I do. I can't actually think of it right now, but I'm still 100% sure I do.
44
This could be good motivation to develop space elevator technology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_eleva…
45
I think it's ridiculous to have our eye on the sky dreaming of gold while there's so much jew gold those filthy, covetous savages have locked up in enclaves all around the world. Why don't they make a jew-gold harvesting robot?
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