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News & ArtsFriday, April 20, 2012
Crime George Zimmerman Gets Bail
Posted by Paul Constant on Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 12:05 PM
Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester set Zimmerman's bond at $150,000, but said he would not be released today, pending deliberations about the terms of the release.
The bail hearing featured dramatic testimony from Zimmerman, who took the stand and offered an apology to Martin's parents.
"I wanted to say that I am sorry for the loss of your son," Zimmerman said..."I thought he was a little bit younger than I am," he said. "I did not know whether he was armed or not."
As to the "little bit younger" part of his testimony, it seems to conflict with some of the evidence we've already seen: In the transcript of the 911 call, Zimmerman tells the operator (correctly) that Martin appears to be "in his late teens." Zimmerman is 28.
3
There's no way we'll ever really know what happened -- there were two witnesses, and one's dead and the other has a vested interest.
But regardless of specifics, it seems pretty clear that Zimmerman was looking for trouble. Carrying a gun and following someone around even after being told by 911 to stop and let authorities deal with it? Regardless of the trial outcome, he sure got the trouble he was looking for, and then some. He'll never feel safe again, which is ironic given his (claimed) motivations.
But regardless of specifics, it seems pretty clear that Zimmerman was looking for trouble. Carrying a gun and following someone around even after being told by 911 to stop and let authorities deal with it? Regardless of the trial outcome, he sure got the trouble he was looking for, and then some. He'll never feel safe again, which is ironic given his (claimed) motivations.
4
@2 - The head wound photos seem odd to me. I'm trying to imagine the situation, and I can't see myself having someone take photos of the back of my head 3 minutes after killing someone, especially if I felt it was legitimate self defense. But, fortunately, I've never been in that position.
5
He didn't know whether Trayvon was armed or not?????????? So Zimmerman used his deadly force against him anyway??? WTF?
6
He should have actually apologized: I'm sorry that I killed your son.
But then again, it's a criminal case and the best thing to do is just shut the fuck up. Bail isn't abnormal in a case like this, he has very little of a record, and without a gun, he only poses a threat to himself: Prediction; Zimmerman will commit suicide within 30 days.
But then again, it's a criminal case and the best thing to do is just shut the fuck up. Bail isn't abnormal in a case like this, he has very little of a record, and without a gun, he only poses a threat to himself: Prediction; Zimmerman will commit suicide within 30 days.
7
@4: I got the impression the police took them, but if I just shot a man dead in self-defense, I would be looking for people to take any picture that showed I had been attacked/wounded.
Hypothetically speaking.
And @3: there were more than two witnesses (Zim. and Martin), as anyone who had been keeping barely abreast of the case would know. Honestly, I think Zim. thought he was helping make his community safer by patrolling, and is probably a paranoid twat, which is why he carried the gun. Why would someone looking to shoot a kid call 911 before he did it, and ask them to come help him?
This does not excuse what he did of course, but I do not think he got in his car that night hoping to kill someone.
Hypothetically speaking.
And @3: there were more than two witnesses (Zim. and Martin), as anyone who had been keeping barely abreast of the case would know. Honestly, I think Zim. thought he was helping make his community safer by patrolling, and is probably a paranoid twat, which is why he carried the gun. Why would someone looking to shoot a kid call 911 before he did it, and ask them to come help him?
This does not excuse what he did of course, but I do not think he got in his car that night hoping to kill someone.
9
@5: And that right there is my biggest problem with the case. I don't know if he's a racist, I don't know if we'll ever get to know what really happened - though I certainly think it was a criminal act. But bottom line is he shot someone without knowing if the guy was armed. If a guy breaks into my house, I'll happily shoot him dead before I see if he's armed. That's my house, with my wife and daughter in it.
But in the middle of a street? After you've already called 911? After you've followed him when you've been told not to? After you could have quite easily pulled the gun and told him not to move? That's manslaughter at least - which is the charge the prosecution should have gone for, since they'd be much more likely to get a conviction.
What he did was morally reprehensible, and is that way to any rational gun owner. Sadly, I doubt there are many of those in Florida. And I'll bet $1000 he never does any time.
But in the middle of a street? After you've already called 911? After you've followed him when you've been told not to? After you could have quite easily pulled the gun and told him not to move? That's manslaughter at least - which is the charge the prosecution should have gone for, since they'd be much more likely to get a conviction.
What he did was morally reprehensible, and is that way to any rational gun owner. Sadly, I doubt there are many of those in Florida. And I'll bet $1000 he never does any time.
10
@7
Hard to say what he wanted to do. We can be fairly certain he doesn't want to be in the situation he is in now, so in hindsight, perhaps he'd want to take it back. But didn't he say something along the lines of, "These assholes always get away," to the emergency dispatcher?
Hard to say what he wanted to do. We can be fairly certain he doesn't want to be in the situation he is in now, so in hindsight, perhaps he'd want to take it back. But didn't he say something along the lines of, "These assholes always get away," to the emergency dispatcher?
11
@7: "This does not excuse what he did of course, but I do not think he got in his car that night hoping to kill someone." That one I have to disagree with you on. I think he'd been hoping to shoot someone for a long, long time. I THINK (emphasis on think, since none of us know what the hell was in his head) he called 911 to try and make it a righteous kill rather than just murder.
I just realized who he reminds me of, more than anyone; Seth Rogen in Observe and Report. That's exactly who he is to me.
I just realized who he reminds me of, more than anyone; Seth Rogen in Observe and Report. That's exactly who he is to me.
12
And an IPSOS/Reuters poll taken last weekend found that 68% of Americans support "Stand Your Ground" legislation.
So, once again, deal with it.
So, once again, deal with it.
13
@6 - "Prediction; Zimmerman will commit suicide within 30 days."
Nah, this guy doesn't think he did anything wrong. He feels perfectly justified in his actions. Plus, his daddy's a rich judge - there's no way on earth Mr Zimmerman would deprive the rest of us of his much-cherished oh-so-righteous scintillating self.
:p
Nah, this guy doesn't think he did anything wrong. He feels perfectly justified in his actions. Plus, his daddy's a rich judge - there's no way on earth Mr Zimmerman would deprive the rest of us of his much-cherished oh-so-righteous scintillating self.
:p
14
@12: Of course they do; they picture themselves being the One Standing Their Ground, not the One With A Fucking Gun In Their Face. And this is why Zimmerman will walk, thanks to the hung jury.
15
What does Trayvon's age have to do with Zimmerman's decision to shoot him down? I must be missing something in the Zimmermanian logic.
16
I said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: Zimmerman's legal defense strategy will consist of him saying 'I SAID I was sorry' over and over again.
17
@10: Yes, he did say something on those lines, but that does not prove he wanted to kill Martin or even harm him initially...I would say this is why he stupidly just kept following Martin after he was told not to.
@11: All we can do is speculate, and honestly, we are all just talking out of our asses for the most part, since we lack the vast majority of the puzzle. I just got the impression from the 911 tapes, and his behavior with the cops that he was a scared little man who had wrongfully started a ball rolling that he lacked the ability (will, brains, bravery, whatever) to stop.
I imagine his head was filled with dreams of heroism for possibly stopping the rash of break-ins in the neighborhood. Seems like the kind of guy who has little power, and grows obsessed with gaining more, which would explain the need to carry a gun, stalk people on a neighborhood watch, etc. but these actions are done out of fear, not malice or desire to kill.
But only Zimmerman knows for sure, and it is possible that not even he really knows.
@11: All we can do is speculate, and honestly, we are all just talking out of our asses for the most part, since we lack the vast majority of the puzzle. I just got the impression from the 911 tapes, and his behavior with the cops that he was a scared little man who had wrongfully started a ball rolling that he lacked the ability (will, brains, bravery, whatever) to stop.
I imagine his head was filled with dreams of heroism for possibly stopping the rash of break-ins in the neighborhood. Seems like the kind of guy who has little power, and grows obsessed with gaining more, which would explain the need to carry a gun, stalk people on a neighborhood watch, etc. but these actions are done out of fear, not malice or desire to kill.
But only Zimmerman knows for sure, and it is possible that not even he really knows.
18
@3 No, there were other witnesses, especially the phone conversation Trayvon was having w/ his girlfriend. That conversation is on record, yet it was never investigated by the cops, nor were any of the other witnesses who have since come forward.
This isn't some big mystery, a Rashomon for our times. There is plenty of evidence to reconstruct what happened. What makes this case so difficult is that the agency empowered w/ gathering and assessing that evidence is actively on the side of the perpetrator. Trayvon may or may not get justice, but for me, the real eye needs to be put upon the law enforcement officials. It doesn't matter if there are "Stand Your Ground" laws or not: If the cops & DAs are corrupt, people will continue to be killed. Kenneth Chamberlain, anyone?
This isn't some big mystery, a Rashomon for our times. There is plenty of evidence to reconstruct what happened. What makes this case so difficult is that the agency empowered w/ gathering and assessing that evidence is actively on the side of the perpetrator. Trayvon may or may not get justice, but for me, the real eye needs to be put upon the law enforcement officials. It doesn't matter if there are "Stand Your Ground" laws or not: If the cops & DAs are corrupt, people will continue to be killed. Kenneth Chamberlain, anyone?
20
What makes you think that the former can't lead to the latter? Seems to me that being afraid of something can make a person feel malice toward or a desire to kill that thing. It's certainly a common explanation for wartime atrocities.
these actions are done out of fear, not malice or desire to kill.
What makes you think that the former can't lead to the latter? Seems to me that being afraid of something can make a person feel malice toward or a desire to kill that thing. It's certainly a common explanation for wartime atrocities.
21
@17
"Yes, he did say something on those lines, but that does not prove he wanted to kill Martin or even harm him initially...I would say this is why he stupidly just kept following Martin after he was told not to."
But it does show that Zimmerman had mentally profiled Martin into the "asshole" category based upon nothing more than what he could see.
And then Zimmerman pursued the "asshole" after the cop told him that he did not need to do that.
"Yes, he did say something on those lines, but that does not prove he wanted to kill Martin or even harm him initially...I would say this is why he stupidly just kept following Martin after he was told not to."
But it does show that Zimmerman had mentally profiled Martin into the "asshole" category based upon nothing more than what he could see.
And then Zimmerman pursued the "asshole" after the cop told him that he did not need to do that.
22
#2
Were that blood his?
I mean yes the back of his head was covered in blood.
But after having it wiped up by the EMT (did they preserve the cloths as evidence) did it reappear?
Seems not.
He was covered in Treyvon Martin's blood!
Were that blood his?
I mean yes the back of his head was covered in blood.
But after having it wiped up by the EMT (did they preserve the cloths as evidence) did it reappear?
Seems not.
He was covered in Treyvon Martin's blood!
23
My own completely unprofessional guess is something along the lines of what Theodore Gorath @17 said... Zimmerman was the captain of his neighborhood watch, and he is on record as being someone who likes to help victims (he helped some homeless guy who had been beaten). He probably wanted his neighborhood to see him as their guardian; as the guy who stopped the robberies. He probably had delusions of (minor) grandeur and got in way over his head.
Also, @19, careful what you wish for... that guy packs heat! And knives. Sharp knives. Lots of them. I've seen them.
Also, @19, careful what you wish for... that guy packs heat! And knives. Sharp knives. Lots of them. I've seen them.
24
@ 12, if you mean this poll, it says that 68% of Americans have a favorable opinion of the NRA.
Not quite the same thing.
It does say "Most of the 1,922 people surveyed nationwide from April Monday through Thursday said they supported laws that allow Americans to use deadly force to protect themselves from danger in their own home or in a public place." It doesn't give us a number, though.
Not quite the same thing.
It does say "Most of the 1,922 people surveyed nationwide from April Monday through Thursday said they supported laws that allow Americans to use deadly force to protect themselves from danger in their own home or in a public place." It doesn't give us a number, though.
26
#23
This is typical behavior of psychopaths and serial killers.
John Wayne Gacy for example had excellent relationships with police and local politicians. He had his car, a big boxy police cruiser type bedecked with lights.
These psychopaths and serial killers try to shift attention from their own sick torment by finding someone to shift the blame to and make a scapegoat in order to make themselves look better.
This is typical behavior of psychopaths and serial killers.
John Wayne Gacy for example had excellent relationships with police and local politicians. He had his car, a big boxy police cruiser type bedecked with lights.
These psychopaths and serial killers try to shift attention from their own sick torment by finding someone to shift the blame to and make a scapegoat in order to make themselves look better.
27
@24,
And the latter hardly means that Americans support Stand Your Ground or even know what those laws specifically entail. I doubt there are many people who aren't hardcore pacifists who oppose self-defense in situations where the victim can't escape the attacker.
And the latter hardly means that Americans support Stand Your Ground or even know what those laws specifically entail. I doubt there are many people who aren't hardcore pacifists who oppose self-defense in situations where the victim can't escape the attacker.
28
Apologizing from the box doesn't mean jack. It's the fashion nowadays to do something completely outside morality or ethics or society's norms and then, after you've spent some time conferring with your own lawyers and also being manhandled by the criminal "justice" system, to make an "apology" sitting next to the judge. Is that supposed to make the young man's parents actually feel better? Or is it just a play on the prosecution, to see if it won't get him slightly better treatment in the long run? "He killed my son in cold blood." "Yes, but he apologized." As my late husband would have said, Fuck.That.Shit.
29
#28
It's a good move. The game maximum for both sides is:
Zimmerman cops a plea to manslaughter
Makes a public mea culpa and pledges to donate all his money to a charity in TM's name
He apologizes profusely to the family and promises to make amends
He gets the minimum sentence.
It's a good move. The game maximum for both sides is:
Zimmerman cops a plea to manslaughter
Makes a public mea culpa and pledges to donate all his money to a charity in TM's name
He apologizes profusely to the family and promises to make amends
He gets the minimum sentence.
31
I don't care if he killed out of fear, hate, or both. If you have so much of either that you will follow a person after the police told you not to and shoot an unarmed person, then you should not be allowed out in public as you are a danger to yourself and others. His motivation and thoughts are irrelevant to the question of whether he should be locked away. The only real question is, should he go to jail or to a mental institution? And that I cannot answer, as I don't know enough about him.
33
I want to hear an EMT definitively state that Zimmerman did or did not have a head wound at the scene. Aside from an eyewitness account, I can't imagine any other new piece of information that has greater potential to swing the outcome of this trial.
34
"I did not know whether he was armed or not."
I'm sure the Zimmerman defenders will conveniently forget this admission in their defenses of him.
I'm sure the Zimmerman defenders will conveniently forget this admission in their defenses of him.
36
@ 27, there are other problems with this poll.
If there's something on this list that the NRA doesn't actively oppose, then a lot of the people holding a favorable opinion of them don't understand what it is they do.
I'd really like to see the actual questions, answer choices, and crosstabs, and see how they found the people for this poll. I saw that it was "online," which makes me wonder about how scientific it could be.
Americans are broadly supportive of restrictions or regulations on gun ownership.
Only 6% say there should be no or very few restrictions on gun ownership.
62% oppose allowing people to bring a firearm into a church, workplace or retail establishment.
91% support background checks for gun purchasers.
69% support limiting the number of guns a person could purchase in a given time frame.
74% support laws limiting the sale of automatic weapons.
If there's something on this list that the NRA doesn't actively oppose, then a lot of the people holding a favorable opinion of them don't understand what it is they do.
I'd really like to see the actual questions, answer choices, and crosstabs, and see how they found the people for this poll. I saw that it was "online," which makes me wonder about how scientific it could be.
37
I don't know, @32. Walking around with a chip on his shoulders and chasing and shooting people he doesn't even know whether they are armed or not, even after his own organization's protocols and the 911 dispatcher told him to leave it alone - to me, he's a perfect example of a danger to society. I'm sure that this mess means that his vigilante days are over either way, but whoever lets him walk will have the burden of guaranteeing to the rest of us that we are safe from him.
38
Edit @ 36.
If there's something on this list that the NRA doesn't actively oppose, I'd be very surpised. Assuming they do, then a lot of the people holding a favorable opinion of them don't understand what it is they do.
If there's something on this list that the NRA doesn't actively oppose, I'd be very surpised. Assuming they do, then a lot of the people holding a favorable opinion of them don't understand what it is they do.
39
Zimmerman's story reeks of fabrication. The kid who's been established to have been running away from him comes back and accosts him while he's getting into his car? And, apropos of nothing, starts a fistfight with him? And then of course, Zimmerman only shoots him AFTER Trayvon grabs for the gun and says "you're going to die today"?
Really? That story is awfully convenient and very much at odds with the evidence.
Really? That story is awfully convenient and very much at odds with the evidence.
40
@39,
I really hope the "You got me" line is actually in Zimmerman's statement to the police, if only because it demonstrates to all and sundry what a lying scumbag he is.
I really hope the "You got me" line is actually in Zimmerman's statement to the police, if only because it demonstrates to all and sundry what a lying scumbag he is.
41
@36
"74% support laws limiting the sale of automatic weapons."
The sale of automatic weapons has been limited since the Gun Control Act of 1934
"91% support background checks for gun purchasers."
This was already required by the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Brady Handgun Act in 1998
"62% oppose allowing people to bring a firearm into a church, workplace or retail establishment."
A business or property owner already has the right to restrict firearms on their property.
"74% support laws limiting the sale of automatic weapons."
The sale of automatic weapons has been limited since the Gun Control Act of 1934
"91% support background checks for gun purchasers."
This was already required by the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Brady Handgun Act in 1998
"62% oppose allowing people to bring a firearm into a church, workplace or retail establishment."
A business or property owner already has the right to restrict firearms on their property.
42
@23 Can he come out of his black-outs long enough to find them? Or get them out from under his flab fast enough to use them?
43
Oh and also re: 5280. Remember how the honorably discharged marine gunned down by cops when he was armed confusedly defending his own home was a "known scumbag" but the armed adult stalking and gunning-down a teenager is "standing his ground?"
44
@ 41, what's your point? The poll is trying to gauge the public's feelings about guns and gun policy, not any specific policy changes currently under debate.
45
The point is that the laws are fine the way they are. Although I would love to see the Hughes Amendment of 1986 removed.
47
A couple years ago there were a bunch of burglaries in my neighborhood. I had uncharitable thoughts about young men hanging out in the streets when this was going on. I'm not the type to carry a gun, but I totally understand the impulse to watch closely & possibly confront a young stranger in your neighborhood after your next door neighbor has been burgled.
The neighborhood where this happened was Zimmerman's home also, not just Martin's.
The way the media paints it, you'd think Zimmerman was volunteering for neighborhood watch at some random neighborhood miles from where he lived just for the experience.
A couple years ago there were a bunch of burglaries in my neighborhood. I had uncharitable thoughts about young men hanging out in the streets when this was going on. I'm not the type to carry a gun, but I totally understand the impulse to watch closely & possibly confront a young stranger in your neighborhood after your next door neighbor has been burgled.
The neighborhood where this happened was Zimmerman's home also, not just Martin's.
The way the media paints it, you'd think Zimmerman was volunteering for neighborhood watch at some random neighborhood miles from where he lived just for the experience.
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