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News & ArtsTuesday, April 17, 2012
Transportation Gas Is Still Cheap
Posted by Charles Mudede on Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:00 AM
If, that is, we compare US with much of the world:
My only problem with the current increase in gas prices is it benefits private corporations and not the state.
1
Hey, but we're all stockholders. So the five shares of Exxon-Mobil I have in a mutual fund is going to make me rich, rich rich!!!
2
My only problem with the current increase in gas prices is it benefits private corporations and not the state.
Well, already about 50 cents or more per gallon already goes to the state in our federal and local gas taxes. You could tax the oil companies more, but then they'd just pass it along to the consumer in higher gas prices.
4
Anything that makes people think more about their driving habits is okay by me. I wish it was closer to $50 a gallon.
5
@2 The purpose of motor-fuel taxes is two-fold. Firstly, it raises money for infrastructure, and if you levy enough, to make up for the costs to society/government/economy that we in the U.S. tend to overlook, such as all the land we lose in providing for parking and driving, the costs of disposing of used-up cars, burdens on civic planning, environmental damage, etc.
Secondly, you can affect supply and demand of motor fuel. By making fuel artificially expensive, you encourage people to use less, thereby reducing the necessary exploratory and production activity. Part B of this, you slow the flow of wealth out of the country into the pockets of despots, theocrats and various others who don't like us very much.
Personally, I'd rather spend a couple bucks a gallon in taxes now, limiting demand for gasoline and driving its pre-tax wholesale price down, then end up giving those bucks and more to the oil industry later as demand pushes prices further up. In other words, I'd rather see a higher portion of my fuel dollars go to my country's coffers than to the usual oligarchs.
Secondly, you can affect supply and demand of motor fuel. By making fuel artificially expensive, you encourage people to use less, thereby reducing the necessary exploratory and production activity. Part B of this, you slow the flow of wealth out of the country into the pockets of despots, theocrats and various others who don't like us very much.
Personally, I'd rather spend a couple bucks a gallon in taxes now, limiting demand for gasoline and driving its pre-tax wholesale price down, then end up giving those bucks and more to the oil industry later as demand pushes prices further up. In other words, I'd rather see a higher portion of my fuel dollars go to my country's coffers than to the usual oligarchs.
6
Good Morning Charles,
A good point is made that relative to the rest of the world, gas prices are moderate in the USA. It's something I discovered in 06' (?) when I looked at a table of gas prices per gallon from around the world. I'm all in favor making driving cost prohibitive to enable less of it worldwide. I support toll roads and high parking rates for example. I do believe the best thing would be for people NOT to own automobiles (I don't own one). The irony is it IS cost prohibitive to own a car.
As for states to get the revenue of gas price increases, I am not in agreement. At the end of the day, I want less driving. The more we wean ourselves off the automobile (and less fuel consumption) the less revenue for oil companies. I'm not convinced the state is any more responsible at managing petroleum resources than private companies.
A good point is made that relative to the rest of the world, gas prices are moderate in the USA. It's something I discovered in 06' (?) when I looked at a table of gas prices per gallon from around the world. I'm all in favor making driving cost prohibitive to enable less of it worldwide. I support toll roads and high parking rates for example. I do believe the best thing would be for people NOT to own automobiles (I don't own one). The irony is it IS cost prohibitive to own a car.
As for states to get the revenue of gas price increases, I am not in agreement. At the end of the day, I want less driving. The more we wean ourselves off the automobile (and less fuel consumption) the less revenue for oil companies. I'm not convinced the state is any more responsible at managing petroleum resources than private companies.
7
@2 Ah. Yes. The 'ol "pass the costs on to the consumer" canard. So what? The entire rest of the world passes the cost on to the consumer. Of course the cost of polluting the planet should be passed on to the consumer. It's consumption that's the problem. Especially when the consumer is too bone stupid to enact income tax policies to pay for all the nifty infrastructure they demand.
10
@5: So what advice do you have for the waitress or construction worker in rural America who has to drive 50 miles each way to work, or in areas where public transportation is impractical?
11
@10, carpooling, better planning, and better public transportation.
I've spent time in Europe. There is far less car ownership anywhere in Europe than there is in the US. And those that do have cars use them far less. They have way better public transportation, and they just figure out how to make it work without cars most of the time.
We in the US have just spent more than half a century building an entire culture around the idea that everyone must have a car, and we all drive around in them by ourselves. It has gotten to the point where most Americans can't imagine any other lifestyle. It is completely ridiculous. Not to mention completely unsustainable.
I've spent time in Europe. There is far less car ownership anywhere in Europe than there is in the US. And those that do have cars use them far less. They have way better public transportation, and they just figure out how to make it work without cars most of the time.
We in the US have just spent more than half a century building an entire culture around the idea that everyone must have a car, and we all drive around in them by ourselves. It has gotten to the point where most Americans can't imagine any other lifestyle. It is completely ridiculous. Not to mention completely unsustainable.
13
@9 Are you handicapped? Over 70? No?
You can't walk 2 miles? You can't walk for half an hour? Really?
Me. Like about 70% of humanity, I walk to get my food.
And if you choose to drive, it IS still a choice for most people in the US - those roads you drive on, the stop signs you stop at, you should pay for those. Right now? You're not.
You can't walk 2 miles? You can't walk for half an hour? Really?
Me. Like about 70% of humanity, I walk to get my food.
And if you choose to drive, it IS still a choice for most people in the US - those roads you drive on, the stop signs you stop at, you should pay for those. Right now? You're not.
14
@10 if we had a tax base that wasn't made of total imbeciles the rural construction worker would have funded alternatives to driving or ways of subsidizing his transportation needs or small business. Somehow construction workers in the rest of the world manage it. But ours I guess are morons or something.
Right now ALL that money you pay for gas is going to a tiny percentage of oil industry executives who not only get tax payer funded sweetheart deal on lands they pollute but massive tax breaks to essentially off-shore all their profits. You should be pissed off at them for rigging the system.
Right now ALL that money you pay for gas is going to a tiny percentage of oil industry executives who not only get tax payer funded sweetheart deal on lands they pollute but massive tax breaks to essentially off-shore all their profits. You should be pissed off at them for rigging the system.
16
Read Bob Lutz's recent book. Hethe is no pansy hippy liberal by any stretch of the imagination. He doesn't believe in climate change.
But he does (or did) have a brilliant idea. Instead of the government-enforced CAFE standards for fuel economy, Congress should have gradually and constantly notched up the gas tax. That would have slowly driven consumers to high-efficiency autos while also funding infrastructure.
But he does (or did) have a brilliant idea. Instead of the government-enforced CAFE standards for fuel economy, Congress should have gradually and constantly notched up the gas tax. That would have slowly driven consumers to high-efficiency autos while also funding infrastructure.
18
@15 Possibly. But I buy more than $20 of groceries. It's no big deal.
Jeez. My grandmother used to walk over two miles to the store in rural Idaho and bought more than $20 of groceries. This is the way all of humanity, but post 1970 America, lives. Why do Americans feel they are so special?
Is your point being he buys over seventy pounds of food at a time?
He could think of it as an opportunity to get buff hauling some weight around. Or maybe he could make more trips to to the store and work his cardio. Cut that gym membership either way.
OR he could just drive and pay more— also like the rest of the world.
Jeez. My grandmother used to walk over two miles to the store in rural Idaho and bought more than $20 of groceries. This is the way all of humanity, but post 1970 America, lives. Why do Americans feel they are so special?
Is your point being he buys over seventy pounds of food at a time?
He could think of it as an opportunity to get buff hauling some weight around. Or maybe he could make more trips to to the store and work his cardio. Cut that gym membership either way.
OR he could just drive and pay more— also like the rest of the world.
19
@15- I buy about $40 dollars worth of groceries most of the time I go to the store, which I then either walk or bike home. I make a several trips to the store every week, which is situated on my way between work and home (about a two mile trip). Sometimes I go out of my way to hit Trader Joe's.
We can keep living like idiots and live with the consequences, or we can live a lifestyle which is better for us as individuals, for our progeny, and for the entire biosphere.
We can keep living like idiots and live with the consequences, or we can live a lifestyle which is better for us as individuals, for our progeny, and for the entire biosphere.
20
The United States and indeed every nation on Earth is about as 'addicted' to oil as the human body is 'addicted' to blood. The world economy is not going to bear sustained oil prices over $100 a barrel. Gee, does anyone remember the last time oil prices creeped into the triple digest realm? Shortly thereafter we got the crash of 2008.
21
Oh, and might I add: "Iran has been offering oil at zero-percent interest for six months to "a handful of potential customers in Asia," including India, according to UPI. The credit amounts to about $1.20 to $1.50 a barrel, or a 7.5 percent discount."
It has NEVER been about nukes with respect to Iran. It has ALWAYS been about oil.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/327385/2…
It has NEVER been about nukes with respect to Iran. It has ALWAYS been about oil.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/327385/2…
22
@9 Me: walk 0.6 miles in comfortable shoes to QFC. Or I just hit up the store on my 1.9 mile walk home after work.
@10 In that situation, Phoebe, the smart thing to do would be to consider moving closer to civilization. There are more construction projects and more restaurants in cities anyway. I have good friends who undertake massive commutes every day because they "need more space." I love 'em, but they're blowing a quarter of their paychecks on gas for the sake an extra room full of random crap and a yard they hardly use, which is just ridiculous.
@10 In that situation, Phoebe, the smart thing to do would be to consider moving closer to civilization. There are more construction projects and more restaurants in cities anyway. I have good friends who undertake massive commutes every day because they "need more space." I love 'em, but they're blowing a quarter of their paychecks on gas for the sake an extra room full of random crap and a yard they hardly use, which is just ridiculous.
23
Gas is cheap at the pump, but it costs us multiple times that amount (>$15/gal) when accounting for the various tax breaks and royalty holidays to oil companies, the military and wars to secure the resource worldwide, and of course the usual externalities resulting from polluting activities.
24
@15, 18, 19, 22: I walk a mile each way to Met Market and buy as much as I need. My secret? A wheeled cart. They are used (and sold) everywhere. Low tech is your friend.
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